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Not to beat a dead horse, but...
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infinitilov100
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8/30/2012  12:28 PM
Nalod wrote:
No linsanity, no playoffs for knicks last season.Playoffs?

Rockets are not a playoff team. Lin is not a 20mm player.

He got one year huge money. It was not a value contract, it was a poison pill.

Why the "good riddance" from so many? Lovers so insecure we have to kick every player who leaves to the curb hoping they don't come back to haunt the decision?

What, no more AR love? Darko Love? MDA blame run out so we have to pound our chest now hoping Felton is the new savior at PG?

End result is Knicks botched Losing Lin. He was a knick and now he is gone without compensation. Laying blame on Lin is comical. Knicks should have locked him up.

In a world where results matter, the ending result is we let him slip away. There should have never been a poison pill. Give him a nice deal before free agency and tell him if he don't sign he can walk. If he walks, there is no back end 15mm poison pill because Knicks are out of it.

Like I said, he never should have gotten away or let him hit free agency. Maybe 100 reasons why we don't keep him and they may be valid but its not the result we wanted. Knicks wanted this kid. We lost him. Fail.

Thus the Knick idiocy legacy continues.

That's not true. TTowards the end of the season, the Knicks were 18-6 and most of those games were played without Lin in the mix. There was a possibility that if Lin continued on the same path, turning over the ball so often while his numbers decreased, the Knicks might not have made the playoffs.

AUTOADVERT
infinitilov100
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8/30/2012  12:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/30/2012  12:52 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:

proven playoff loser.. actually the biggest playoff loser in nba history I think.. yea, he has proven himself...

This is ridiculous. Let's see if the great Lin can even get a team into the playoffs as the main guy.


Don't you just hate ridiculous facts?
A guy on a $25 mil contract shouldn't be expected to carry a team. A guy on a $100 mil should be.

Raymond Felton and Jason Kidd are better fit for our team and they are proven quality floor generals.

...and they play defense!

infinitilov100
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8/30/2012  12:55 PM
infinitilov100 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
No linsanity, no playoffs for knicks last season.Playoffs?

Rockets are not a playoff team. Lin is not a 20mm player.

He got one year huge money. It was not a value contract, it was a poison pill.

Why the "good riddance" from so many? Lovers so insecure we have to kick every player who leaves to the curb hoping they don't come back to haunt the decision?

What, no more AR love? Darko Love? MDA blame run out so we have to pound our chest now hoping Felton is the new savior at PG?

End result is Knicks botched Losing Lin. He was a knick and now he is gone without compensation. Laying blame on Lin is comical. Knicks should have locked him up.

In a world where results matter, the ending result is we let him slip away. There should have never been a poison pill. Give him a nice deal before free agency and tell him if he don't sign he can walk. If he walks, there is no back end 15mm poison pill because Knicks are out of it.

Like I said, he never should have gotten away or let him hit free agency. Maybe 100 reasons why we don't keep him and they may be valid but its not the result we wanted. Knicks wanted this kid. We lost him. Fail.

Thus the Knick idiocy legacy continues.

That's not true. TTowards the end of the season, the Knicks were 18-6 and most of those games were played without Lin in the mix. There was a possibility that if Lin continued on the same path, turning over the ball so often while his numbers decreased, the Knicks might not have made the playoffs.

Besides without Lin, MDA would have been fired earlier and our record would have been probably better.

CrushAlot
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8/30/2012  1:15 PM
Nalod wrote:
No linsanity, no playoffs for knicks last season.

Playoffs?

Rockets are not a playoff team. Lin is not a 20mm player.

He got one year huge money. It was not a value contract, it was a poison pill.

Why the "good riddance" from so many? Lovers so insecure we have to kick every player who leaves to the curb hoping they don't come back to haunt the decision?

What, no more AR love? Darko Love? MDA blame run out so we have to pound our chest now hoping Felton is the new savior at PG?

End result is Knicks botched Losing Lin. He was a knick and now he is gone without compensation. Laying blame on Lin is comical. Knicks should have locked him up.

In a world where results matter, the ending result is we let him slip away. There should have never been a poison pill. Give him a nice deal before free agency and tell him if he don't sign he can walk. If he walks, there is no back end 15mm poison pill because Knicks are out of it.

Like I said, he never should have gotten away or let him hit free agency. Maybe 100 reasons why we don't keep him and they may be valid but its not the result we wanted. Knicks wanted this kid. We lost him. Fail.

Thus the Knick idiocy legacy continues.

The Knicks couldn't offer Lin more than their mid level that was why they asked him to find his value. I think they would have matched without question if it was the original contract that was reported by the media. Also, I think the compensation for Lin argument isn't a very good one. The Knicks have to take back dollar of dollar the same amount in a trade because they are over the cap (maybe a repeat offender consequence but it is in their future). Because of his third year poison pill, that contract becomes hard to trade. The only way it works is if the Knicks keep him for one year and then trade him. I think the knicks are trying to build consistency and chemistry. Developing Lin for a year for another team seems to be something they did not want to do.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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8/30/2012  1:19 PM
Nalod wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Nalod wrote:
No linsanity, no playoffs for knicks last season.

Playoffs?

Rockets are not a playoff team. Lin is not a 20mm player.

He got one year huge money. It was not a value contract, it was a poison pill.

Why the "good riddance" from so many? Lovers so insecure we have to kick every player who leaves to the curb hoping they don't come back to haunt the decision?

What, no more AR love? Darko Love? MDA blame run out so we have to pound our chest now hoping Felton is the new savior at PG?

End result is Knicks botched Losing Lin. He was a knick and now he is gone without compensation. Laying blame on Lin is comical. Knicks should have locked him up. In a world where results matter, the ending result is we let him slip away. There should have never been a poison pill. Give him a nice deal before free agency and tell him if he don't sign he can walk. If he walks, there is no back end 15mm poison pill because Knicks are out of it.

Like I said, he never should have gotten away or let him hit free agency. Maybe 100 reasons why we don't keep him and they may be valid but its not the result we wanted. Knicks wanted this kid. We lost him. Fail.

Thus the Knick idiocy legacy continues.

We don't need Felton to be our savior, it's a team game. But I can guarantee you he will play more than 25 games unlike some flash in the pan.

Since accuracy counts: Lin played 35 games. He started 25. I don't know how many DNPs but knicks are 24 games into the season when The Linsanity started agasint the nets. Think he got his first minutes

He played well for Woodson on a bad knee.

He had one month to get into playing shape.

He had no camp. Team traveling its not easy to get in playing shape.

He has had all off season to get into starters minutes kind of shape.

Being a free agent put him into a crazy situation.

Lin did what he did. Bottom line is we let him go when we intended to keep him.

We fought for his bird rights. We told the world we wanted him. We told teh world he starts.

So lets not go "flash in the pan" kind of talk.

We botched it up. Why? Cuz our intentions did not come to fruition. He is not on the roster?

Blame Lin? By the sounds of it we never made an offer until he was told to go find a number. Now we say "he never wanted to be here"? Comical. Its reported Dolan didn't want him to play in the playoffs so he could just get healed. Every sign internally and media reported was we would match all offers. Thats because the knicks figured his value. Knicks did not anticipate the poison pill. So the net effect, Lin is not here.

Thus its a fail. Forget Kidd and Felton and Pablo because this is not where we were going.

Shyt happens. Its still a fail.

He broke down is not a valid reason to "good riddance". The poison pill should never been offered because he should have been locked up.

Anything else is a failure. It happens. ALl teams fail. Orlando failed to keep its superstar. Boston Failed because they basically gave away Joe Johnson to PHX. Dallas Failed to evaluate Nash and let him walk so they could sign Dampier. Golden State failed to evaluate Lin's potential. Houston wiffed on him also. Knicks saw it right in front of them. The whole world saw it.

You saw it. Lin was ready to sign for like 5-6 mil and rockets knew we'd match, so the put in the pill. I can't say for sure but you give lin that 5-6 mil a year early enough in the process we keep him.

Im speculating of course. I do know the intended PG for the Knicks, a kid who still needs further developement and work on turnovers is a great prospect still and showed the clutch gene in the hot media spotlight.

We failed.

What team lets a talented prospect get away? Who lets a talented kid even get to the point a team offers a poisen pill? One who does not evaluate properly or makes decisons on emotion.

Since accuracy counts: Lin played 35 games. He started 25. I don't know how many DNPs but knicks are 24 games into the season when The Linsanity started agasint the nets. Think he got his first minutes were at game 17 in Charlotte. I was at that game.

Team is 9-15 when linsanity starts.

So lets say: 66 game season, minus 17, is 51 and he plays 35 of those games before going down. Thats not quite as snarky as "He only played 25 games and we should give him 15mil in one year?"

If we never wanted him thats one thing. KNicks did. Knicks lost him, thus failed.

Maybe its not the end of the world and the team is still going to be good.

Rooting for the team to succeed is one thing. Defending a failure is pointless homerism.

Despite it all, the team fortunes are still strong given the size of the fanbase.

Do you understand that the Knicks were limited to offering 5 mil per year but could match another team's offer? They couldn't, "Lock him up'. Grunwald has proven to be a very shrewd man that understands this cba. If he could have locked Lin up he would have.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
tkf
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8/30/2012  1:44 PM
NUPE wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:

proven playoff loser.. actually the biggest playoff loser in nba history I think.. yea, he has proven himself...

This is ridiculous. Let's see if the great Lin can even get a team into the playoffs as the main guy.


Don't you just hate ridiculous facts?
A guy on a $25 mil contract shouldn't be expected to carry a team. A guy on a $100 mil should be.

Amar'e and Melo have carried teams into the playoffs throughout their careers. You and others ignore this and act as if Lin is superior to both Amar'e and Melo. If Lin is as good as you and others claim then he should be able to get HOU to at least the 8th seed. It has nothing to do with contracts and everything to do with skills, talent and the ability to carry a team. People have spent weeks blabbering about how great Lin and calling him "a special talent" but are now backpedaling at the mere mention of HOU making the playoffs which apparently is not a big deal and easy to accomplish according to tkf.

lol.. I have no problem with amare, he is somewhat accomplished... and he is the best player on our team.. the sad thing is he has been somewhat kicked to the side by dolan and the MSG BS machine to promote their new toy...and it is not justified...

nalod nailed it with lin.. it is so silly how people try to spin it.. The knicks failed.. they wanted lin and lost him for nothing...

Houston doesn't have to win now.. we do.. The rockets are set up nicely for the future...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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8/30/2012  1:51 PM
infinitilov100 wrote:
tkf wrote:
infinitilov100 wrote:
tkf wrote:
NUPE wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Antoni inserted Lin because its what Melo wanted

This is what all the Melo-Haters conveniently ignore.

Again, I like Lin but that contract was just ridiculous and any sensible person knows it.

it is ridiculous if you don't understand how it works.. lin would on average make around 6-7 mil per year.. how is that ridiculous....

ah, unless you want to spin this into him making 15 mil in one year as if that is his yearly salary, or better yet, you put he whole luxury tax burden on his deal.. LOL

It is ok tho that carmelo makes 20 mil a year, right? the first round exit wonder.....

Melo has proven himself so don't even go there.

proven playoff loser.. actually the biggest playoff loser in nba history I think.. yea, he has proven himself...

are you ingnorant or what?

no, but I think you are... I quoted a fact... are you telling me what I said is wrong? I can prove it...

look in the mirror homie..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
CrushAlot
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8/30/2012  2:01 PM
tkf wrote:
infinitilov100 wrote:
tkf wrote:
infinitilov100 wrote:
tkf wrote:
NUPE wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Antoni inserted Lin because its what Melo wanted

This is what all the Melo-Haters conveniently ignore.

Again, I like Lin but that contract was just ridiculous and any sensible person knows it.

it is ridiculous if you don't understand how it works.. lin would on average make around 6-7 mil per year.. how is that ridiculous....

ah, unless you want to spin this into him making 15 mil in one year as if that is his yearly salary, or better yet, you put he whole luxury tax burden on his deal.. LOL

It is ok tho that carmelo makes 20 mil a year, right? the first round exit wonder.....

Melo has proven himself so don't even go there.

proven playoff loser.. actually the biggest playoff loser in nba history I think.. yea, he has proven himself...

are you ingnorant or what?

no, but I think you are... I quoted a fact... are you telling me what I said is wrong? I can prove it...

look in the mirror homie..

Melo's been to the conference finals once, Amare twice. The Knicks have two guys with rings and a guy on the bench that won one as an assistant to Larry Brown. Hopefully that translated to a winning culture.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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8/30/2012  2:37 PM

Can't imagine why fans can't say....."We failed, but we'll be ok".

Now we got homers defending Dolans money.

Unreal!

IF we did not want him why we run around telling everyone he is the starting PG?
Made Woodson look stupid.

tkf
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8/30/2012  2:48 PM
Nalod wrote:
Can't imagine why fans can't say....."We failed, but we'll be ok".

Now we got homers defending Dolans money.

Unreal!

IF we did not want him why we run around telling everyone he is the starting PG?
Made Woodson look stupid.

EXACTLY, all of the talk, the dinner in LA.... I mean why? if they didn't want him...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
CrushAlot
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8/30/2012  2:51 PM
Nalod wrote:
Can't imagine why fans can't say....."We failed, but we'll be ok".

Now we got homers defending Dolans money.

Unreal!

IF we did not want him why we run around telling everyone he is the starting PG?
Made Woodson look stupid.

In an earlier post you said the Knicks should have just locked Lin up. Did you mean match the Hou offer or give him the mle?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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8/30/2012  2:58 PM
Nalod wrote:
Can't imagine why fans can't say....."We failed, but we'll be ok".

Now we got homers defending Dolans money.

Unreal!

IF we did not want him why we run around telling everyone he is the starting PG?
Made Woodson look stupid.

In an earlier post you said the Knicks should have just locked Lin up. Did you mean match the Hou offer or give him the mle?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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8/30/2012  2:59 PM
Nalod wrote:
Can't imagine why fans can't say....."We failed, but we'll be ok".

Now we got homers defending Dolans money.

Unreal!

IF we did not want him why we run around telling everyone he is the starting PG?
Made Woodson look stupid.

Are you trying to be provocative and ignore what you know about the new cba or have you just chosen not to learn about it?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
NUPE
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8/30/2012  3:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/30/2012  3:02 PM
Apparently Lin is the second coming of Chris Paul and/or John Stockton. TKF has it all figured out and all the analyst, experts, gm's, and coaches that believe Lin is an average player - at best - have it wrong.

When people start calling Melo and Amar'e career losers while simultaneously claiming the Knicks made the playoffs solely because of Lin then I know it is time for me to exit a thread for good. Such an argument or assertion is so wholly baseless and ridiculous and does not warrant a credible response.

People that make such absurd claims, as above, also cried about trading away Gallo and Chandler and Felton and assorted other average players that have shown no ability to even carry a team into the playoffs. LMAO!

ChuckBuck
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8/30/2012  3:05 PM
NUPE wrote:Apparently Lin is the second coming of Chris Paul and/or John Stockton. TKF has it all figured out and all the analyst, experts, gm's, and coaches that believe Lin is an average player - at best - have it wrong.

When people start calling Melo and Amar'e career losers while simultaneously claiming the Knicks made the playoffs solely because of Lin then I know it is time for me to exit a thread for good. Such an argument or assertion is so wholly baseless and ridiculous and does not warrant a credible response.

People that make such absurd claims, as above, also cried about trading away Gallo and Chandler and Felton and assorted other average players that have shown no ability to even carry a team into the playoffs. LMAO!

Pretty much. The same guys crying about Lin are the same guys that wept when Gallo was taken from their warm embrace.

Nalod
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8/30/2012  3:18 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Can't imagine why fans can't say....."We failed, but we'll be ok".

Now we got homers defending Dolans money.

Unreal!

IF we did not want him why we run around telling everyone he is the starting PG?
Made Woodson look stupid.

Are you trying to be provocative and ignore what you know about the new cba or have you just chosen not to learn about it?

Did woody ignore proclaiming he's the starting PG?

Everyone on the planet knew the KNicks wanted him. WE bluffed and lost. It happens.

WE lost. Could we have given him a 4 yr 20mm extension before Free agency?

Or one with an opt out to reset his contract?

We could not figure out how to keep him?

Im not buying "greed" as a valid reason and paint Lin as some villian here.

gunsnewing
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8/30/2012  3:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/30/2012  3:24 PM
Its ok for h20, marbury, amare & melo to get $100mil each but $25mil is too much for a diamond in the rough 23yr pg
CrushAlot
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8/30/2012  3:26 PM
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Can't imagine why fans can't say....."We failed, but we'll be ok".

Now we got homers defending Dolans money.

Unreal!

IF we did not want him why we run around telling everyone he is the starting PG?
Made Woodson look stupid.

Are you trying to be provocative and ignore what you know about the new cba or have you just chosen not to learn about it?

Did woody ignore proclaiming he's the starting PG?

Everyone on the planet knew the KNicks wanted him. WE bluffed and lost. It happens.

WE lost. Could we have given him a 4 yr 20mm extension before Free agency?

Or one with an opt out to reset his contract?

We could not figure out how to keep him?

Im not buying "greed" as a valid reason and paint Lin as some villian here.

So you are saying he would tak 20 mil for four years instead of 24.8 mil for 3 years? I don't think that happens and I am not sure about the opt out or if it could be done. Grunwald has demonstrated a thorough understanding of the new cba in my opinion. Signing Jorts, Jordan, Gadz, and Jeffries to a second year that wasn't guaranteed so that he could use them in trades was brilliant. Amnestying Chauncey to get Tyson was also very shrewd in my opinion. I think if he could have done something without putting Lin out there that would have worked he would have. Lin did right by himself not settling for 5 mil a year. He may never have that opportunity again.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
gunsnewing
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8/30/2012  3:27 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
NUPE wrote:Apparently Lin is the second coming of Chris Paul and/or John Stockton. TKF has it all figured out and all the analyst, experts, gm's, and coaches that believe Lin is an average player - at best - have it wrong.

When people start calling Melo and Amar'e career losers while simultaneously claiming the Knicks made the playoffs solely because of Lin then I know it is time for me to exit a thread for good. Such an argument or assertion is so wholly baseless and ridiculous and does not warrant a credible response.

People that make such absurd claims, as above, also cried about trading away Gallo and Chandler and Felton and assorted other average players that have shown no ability to even carry a team into the playoffs. LMAO!

Pretty much. The same guys crying about Lin are the same guys that wept when Gallo was taken from their warm embrace.

Wrong. If im crying about Lin its because it is justified. I can usually make a case for losing a beloved player like lee and even ewing. Losing Lin is just inexplicabke

gunsnewing
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8/30/2012  3:30 PM
Nalod wrote:
Can't imagine why fans can't say....."We failed, but we'll be ok".

Now we got homers defending Dolans money.

Unreal!

IF we did not want him why we run around telling everyone he is the starting PG?
Made Woodson look stupid.


+10000000000000000000000000000000000000
Not to beat a dead horse, but...

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