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Hahn reporting that Denver will trade Melo to NJ if Knicks don't include Mosgov
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NYKBocker
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2/21/2011  11:15 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:If Melo enters UFA status in the summer then Chandler will be let go. Melo can then sign the max with the Knicks.

No one disputes this or doesn't prefer this.

The problem is it's highly unlikely.

The context of this discussion is how you upgrade the KNicks moving forward if you bypass 'Melo now and he never becomes a free agent.

If that is the discussion then I say we are only 2 pieces away from getting out of the 2nd round. A center and a backup PG is all we need.

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newyorknewyork
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2/21/2011  11:17 AM
counter by adding Buike,Turiaf,Mozgov for Nene.
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Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  11:17 AM
NYKBocker wrote:If that is the discussion then I say we are only 2 pieces away from getting out of the 2nd round. A center and a backup PG is all we need.

A starting salary of 8M nets you a decent player.

A sign and trade while sending out a small amount of salary can get you a higher priced player using your cap space.

Renouncing Chandler would free up the remaining 6M and gives you 14M to sign 1 very high priced player or 2 very serviceable players.

There are some good options there to consider.

Okay....

Who?

NYKBocker
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2/21/2011  11:28 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:If that is the discussion then I say we are only 2 pieces away from getting out of the 2nd round. A center and a backup PG is all we need.

A starting salary of 8M nets you a decent player.

A sign and trade while sending out a small amount of salary can get you a higher priced player using your cap space.

Renouncing Chandler would free up the remaining 6M and gives you 14M to sign 1 very high priced player or 2 very serviceable players.

There are some good options there to consider.

Okay....

Who?

Andrew postred this but I will give it a try.

Center
Tyson Chandler - He is a UFA this summer but it will be hard to get him as Cuban is high on him.
Joel Pryzbilla - UFA this summer.
Samuel Dalembert - UFA this summer.
Krylo Feseno - UFA this summer.
MArc Gasol - RFA this summer.

Point Guard
Jose Barrea - UFA this summer.
TJ Ford - UFA this summer.
Earl Watson - UFA this summer.

We have a lot of options with the Cap space that Donnie has created.

Andrew
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2/21/2011  11:29 AM
Nene(ETO), Kendrick Perkins, Big Baby, M Gasol(R), Chuck Hayes, Sebastian Telfair, Troy Murphy, Reggie Evans, Kris Humphries.
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Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  11:33 AM
I'm not seeing any names that added to the current Knicks equates to title contender.

Which one or 2 are you guys thinking?

tkf
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2/21/2011  11:37 AM
guys are worrying bout giving up moz.. heck, the offer as it stands is way too much...

i will say this. I am going to watch every nuggets game, as I think their new team will not only be as exciting as the new knicks, but potentially a better team down the road...

but whatever.... sucks being a knick fan.. really does...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Andrew
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2/21/2011  11:40 AM
Knickoftime wrote:I'm not seeing any names that added to the current Knicks equates to title contender.

Which one or 2 are you guys thinking?

Knickoftime, adding players this off season is not going to take the Knicks from .500 to title contender. Its going to be a progression that includes multiple moves (signings, trades, draft), and player development. Same with trading for Melo, with the difference being you have less options.

I don't know why you feel it necessary to take such a argumentative and non conversational tone on the boards. Please take a moment and try to see what others are putting out there so there can be some give and take.

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Markji
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2/21/2011  11:41 AM
tkf wrote:guys are worrying bout giving up moz.. heck, the offer as it stands is way too much...

i will say this. I am going to watch every nuggets game, as I think their new team will not only be as exciting as the new knicks, but potentially a better team down the road...

but whatever.... sucks being a knick fan.. really does...

Ditto.
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markvmc
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2/21/2011  11:46 AM
Surprised they haven't asked us to throw in Clyde to call their games too.
Markji
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2/21/2011  11:56 AM
markvmc wrote:Surprised they haven't asked us to throw in Clyde to call their games too.

Does anyone really think that Walsh negotiated this Melo deal or even the TMac deal. Watch the replay of that and see if it doesn't look and sound familar. David Stern has to suspend Dolan from interfering and screwing up the Knicks.

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tkf
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2/21/2011  12:13 PM
Markji wrote:
markvmc wrote:Surprised they haven't asked us to throw in Clyde to call their games too.

Does anyone really think that Walsh negotiated this Melo deal or even the TMac deal. Watch the replay of that and see if it doesn't look and sound familar. David Stern has to suspend Dolan from interfering and screwing up the Knicks.

now that I think about it.. I think the T-mac deal and now this deal, stinks of dolan and his jackass side kick isiah....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Markji
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2/21/2011  12:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  12:25 PM
tkf wrote:
Markji wrote:
markvmc wrote:Surprised they haven't asked us to throw in Clyde to call their games too.

Does anyone really think that Walsh negotiated this Melo deal or even the TMac deal. Watch the replay of that and see if it doesn't look and sound familar. David Stern has to suspend Dolan from interfering and screwing up the Knicks.

now that I think about it.. I think the T-mac deal and now this deal, stinks of dolan and his jackass side kick isiah....


Yep. I said this about the TMac trade and now about the Melo trade. This isn't Walsh's negotiations, it is pure Dolan advised by Isiah! Terrible.

From NY Magazine
"Howard Beck of the Times, as usual, has it exactly right this morning: This is not a Donnie Walsh trade; it is a James Dolan one. Regardless of whether or not Isiah Thomas is back in charge — as Adrian Wojnarowski's terrifying Yahoo! column yesterday implied — it's clear this decision has been taken out of Walsh's hands. Forget not extending Walsh's contract: We have no idea, at this point, why he'd even want to come back."....

The Knicks could not lose. They could give the Nuggets a pittance this year for a couple months of Carmelo, or they could wait and sign him in the off-season, keeping the roster Walsh constructed together. Walsh didn't have to do anything. He had the winning hand.

And then Jim Dolan came busting in. Convinced as always that he knows best — or anything at all, really — Dolan took the Knicks' bargaining advantage and set it on fire. (This is Dolan's way: As we put it in our mag column last week, "Walsh has put the tires back on the car. Now Dolan wants to drive again.") The Knicks went from, "The Nuggets have no choice but to trade Carmelo for whatever we want" to, "Wait, we're trading Gallinari and Chandler and Felton?" to, "We can't let Timofey Mozgov be what holds this deal up."

Dolan did this IN THE SPAN OF ONE WEEKEND.

Every piece of Knicks-Carmelo news since Friday has been depressing, one more move away from the position Walsh shrewdly put the Knicks in. The Knicks were reconstructed by patience and guile and, for once, having grownups back in charge. It took Walsh two years to clean up a decade of mess. Dolan might have undone it all in a weekend."

http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2011/02/the_knicks_are_likely_to_end_u.html
How can a man who runs a multi-billion dollar company like CableVision be so stupid!

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TLover
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2/21/2011  12:25 PM
I've been against giving away these players for Carmelo. If they insist on Mozgov then we should attempt to get Nene back.

Denver gets:

Gallo
Chandler
Felton
Mozgov
Turiaf
Azubuike
Brewer 2014 #1

Wolves get:

Randolph
Curry

Knicks get:

Carmelo
Billups
Nene
Balkman
Shel Williams

Knick line-up:

PG: Billups,TD
Sg: Fields, Walker
Sf: Melo, Balkman
Pf: Amare, Shawn Williams
C: Nene, Shel Williams

Markji
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2/21/2011  12:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  12:29 PM
TLover wrote:I've been against giving away these players for Carmelo. If they insist on Mozgov then we should attempt to get Nene back.

Denver gets:

Gallo
Chandler
Felton
Mozgov
Turiaf
Azubuike
Brewer 2014 #1

Wolves get:

Randolph
Curry

Knicks get:

Carmelo
Billups
Nene
Balkman
Shel Williams

Knick line-up:

PG: Billups,TD
Sg: Fields, Walker
Sf: Melo, Balkman
Pf: Amare, Shawn Williams
C: Nene, Shel Williams


That is an excellent idea. If we could get Nene also, then we would be set. Denver would never do it without us giving them numerous 1st round picks, but it is worth the try. But substitute Carter for Balkman.
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s3231
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2/21/2011  12:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  12:30 PM
I don't mind this deal at all (our "final offer" that's being reported) if Donnie is here for the rest of this season and next season. Yeah, we give up a lot, but I trust Donnie's ability to bring in more assets to get us to the level of contention.

The part that bothers me the most is we've gone through several years of tearing this all down to build it back up and now that Donnie gets to really "build" a contending team, it seems like he won't even have the power to do so. That of course, is truly a shame after the job he has done. Let's be real, if we get Melo that gives us a pretty damn good core of Amare/Melo to build on so I'm not going to sit here and say it sucks to be a Knicks fan if Walsh is the guy that gets to fill out the roster. In my mind, we would still have enough pieces even after this deal to improve and give some teams a run for their money over the next few years.

When Miami signed the big three, they basically ensured themselves at least a title over the next 5-6 years (and probably more than one) so the game now is all about building a team that can at least stop them once. It sucks to admit it but it's awfully true, any team not named the Miami Heat will be fortunate to win a title over the next 5 years considering they have 2 of the best 3 players in the game. Getting Melo doesn't put as on their level but the truth is I don't know if any team will be able to get to that level when you consider the magnitude of what they were able to accomplish this past off-season. If we are able to build a team that stops them once and wins a title, that will be a huge accomplishment in my book and that is the goal even if they win the other 4-5 times.

As far as the negotiating process itself goes, while Denver may be greedy as hell, we can't dispute that they are making us pay fair value here and have successfully used every bit of leverage that they had (how little or big it may be). We don't know the whole story here and that makes it even more frustrating to deal with.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Knickoftime
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2/21/2011  12:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/21/2011  12:32 PM
Andrew wrote:Knickoftime, adding players this off season is not going to take the Knicks from .500 to title contender. Its going to be a progression that includes multiple moves (signings, trades, draft), and player development. Same with trading for Melo, with the difference being you have less options.

Agreed with everything until that last half of that last sentence.

You don't have less options with 'Melo. Knicks with the team they have don't have any cap space in 17 months. 5 if you advocate signing some phantom player(s) this summer.

I don't know why you feel it necessary to take such a argumentative and non conversational tone on the boards. Please take a moment and try to see what others are putting out there so there can be some give and take.

I very specifically respond to what people are putting out there. I'll do so again.

Which players mentioned above make the Knicks better than Anthony would?

Joel Pryzbilla?

Samuel Dalembert?

martin
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2/21/2011  12:34 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Andrew wrote:Knickoftime, adding players this off season is not going to take the Knicks from .500 to title contender. Its going to be a progression that includes multiple moves (signings, trades, draft), and player development. Same with trading for Melo, with the difference being you have less options.

Agreed with everything until that last half of that last sentence.

You don't have less options with 'Melo. Knicks with the team they have don't have any cap space in 17 months. 5 if you advocate signing some phantom player(s) this summer.

I don't know why you feel it necessary to take such a argumentative and non conversational tone on the boards. Please take a moment and try to see what others are putting out there so there can be some give and take.

I very specifically respond to what people are putting out there. I'll do so again.

Which players mentioned above make the Knicks better than Anthony would?

Joel Pryzbilla?

Samuel Dalembert?

your baseline assumption is that you HAVE to have cap space to make upgrades?

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Andrew
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2/21/2011  12:41 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Agreed with everything until that last half of that last sentence.

You don't have less options with 'Melo. Knicks with the team they have don't have any cap space in 17 months. 5 if you advocate signing some phantom player(s) this summer.

Are you talking about options? Don't limit it to Cap space. Tradable assets, players to develop, draft picks. Those are the options I'm talking about.

And no, you don't have anyone to sign that is as good as Melo with the cap space this offseason, but thats not what the comparison should be. Is (Nene or Perkins or Gasol), Gallo, Felton, AR and draft picks a better option than Melo. Thats where I am leaning towards a non Melo trade.

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2/21/2011  12:42 PM
alanhahn Nugs have always prefered NJ deal so to push Knicks to brink of walking away serves their purpose. Unless Melo says he will only sign w/ NY.
I hope the Knicks walk away.
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Hahn reporting that Denver will trade Melo to NJ if Knicks don't include Mosgov

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