SupremeCommander wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:another solid line for Hill tonight...sigh..i really hope the cap space this off season vs next season ends up being worth it

No one ever really doubted that he'd be a contributor. The doubts had to do with him being a difference maker, which I don't think he'll become. So, we traded a lot of years of solid play for a shot at a difference maker.

It's a huge risk/reward play. But I'm tired of 30 win seasons. If nothing else this offseason is going to be INCREDIBLY interesting, which is the first time you could say that about the Knicks in a long time.

You mean we PROBABLY traded a lot of years for solid play for a shot at a difference maker.

This horse has been beat to death but if the cap space created by unloading Jefferies get us two 1a FAs then I guess it was worth it.

Can't say myself whether I love or hate the trade. Find it weird that other people are sooooo convinced one way or the other.

Cosmic wrote:Hill's not going to "explode".

He could prove to one day be a decent backup.

Do you retain a 'decent backup' and lose your shot at building a monster team?

Do you not even take a shot at building a great team and instead build it around Jordan Hill?

No, you don't.

We didn't trade the next Tim Duncan, fellas, we traded a scrub that could work his way into "serviceable" category. You don't build winners around such players. You also don't let them step in the way of even a 1% chance of signing multiple all-star caliber players.

Cosmic..I think you have the same problem one of my buddies does when debating. You make a very legit argument but it gets clouded in hyperbole.

In this case hyperbole being you labeling Jordan Hill as a scrub that has a ceiling of serviceable. You don't know that. No one does at this point.

Otherwise I get what you're saying. Pay the price to get any combination of Bron/Wade/Bosh.

BRIGGS wrote:

Here is the problem Cosmic--people are annoyed that Jordan Hill didn't get a chance. When you were a little boy did you leave you X mas gifts in the wrappings and throw them out 5 months later? Do you have any history posting where you evaluated a player based on such small content and were proven correct? I didn't love the Jordan Hill pick but I also didn't hate it. I think that he deserved to play and it's a disgrace that a 20 win team didn't do that. You are making proclamations that he scks based on nothing. I guess in your mind if you don't put up 20-10 the first 5 minutes you're on the court--you sck? Yes we have to let the trade workout--see if there was indeed a smart move at the end of the tunnel--because we gave away a TON imho. But to justify the trade by saying Jordan Hill scks doesn't make any common sense and there is no factual basis behind it. I have much more reasonable basis to say James Dolan is the worst owner in sports history and MDA gas shown nothing without Steve Nash--in fact he's should be graded D- so far. Jordan Hill with the Knicks--I didnt see him play--and guess what I don't think very highly of the people who didnt let him play.

What I would like to know is who is responsible for the trade. I think D walsh is more of an adviser--I dont think he is GM--one of those stooge GM's behind the scenes--MDA Dolan maybe Isiah Thomas? who made the call--who set up the parameters. Does anyone doubt that IT may still have Dolan s ear?

briggs, i seem to recall you being extremely down on the draft choice of hill - saying that he was extremely underdeveloped for a player of his age and he wasn't strong enough, etc.

why the change of heart?

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Here is the problem Cosmic--people are annoyed that Jordan Hill didn't get a chance. When you were a little boy did you leave you X mas gifts in the wrappings and throw them out 5 months later? Do you have any history posting where you evaluated a player based on such small content and were proven correct? I didn't love the Jordan Hill pick but I also didn't hate it. I think that he deserved to play and it's a disgrace that a 20 win team didn't do that. You are making proclamations that he scks based on nothing. I guess in your mind if you don't put up 20-10 the first 5 minutes you're on the court--you sck? Yes we have to let the trade workout--see if there was indeed a smart move at the end of the tunnel--because we gave away a TON imho. But to justify the trade by saying Jordan Hill scks doesn't make any common sense and there is no factual basis behind it. I have much more reasonable basis to say James Dolan is the worst owner in sports history and MDA gas shown nothing without Steve Nash--in fact he's should be graded D- so far. Jordan Hill with the Knicks--I didnt see him play--and guess what I don't think very highly of the people who didnt let him play.

What I would like to know is who is responsible for the trade. I think D walsh is more of an adviser--I dont think he is GM--one of those stooge GM's behind the scenes--MDA Dolan maybe Isiah Thomas? who made the call--who set up the parameters. Does anyone doubt that IT may still have Dolan s ear?

briggs, i seem to recall you being extremely down on the draft choice of hill - saying that he was extremely underdeveloped for a player of his age and he wasn't strong enough, etc.

why the change of heart?

If my memory serves me right I was very high on Evans and Curry. I was indifferent on Hill and I did not want Holiday at all[I remember calling him a massive reach that high] I also wanted to take Blair at 29 once he dropped. I thought Hill was a better version of Channing Frye--a guy who could mix it up more but I had my doubts about his ability to play the pure 5. He wasn't my pick but I also did not disagree with the pick. If I ficthed anyone it was Jrue Holiday. Holiday could prove me wrong but if you ahev that many opinions--you are going to be wrong on some of them. I felt like it was a Curry Evans draft--I think for the most part I hit it.

TMS wrote:posting this for people who are interested to hear what Rockets coaches & players have to say about Jordan Hill... read it or don't read it... your choice.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/6907462.html

Rockets' Hill shows promise in short time with team
By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2010 Houston Chronicle
March 10, 2010, 10:13PM

Rockets forward Luis Scola wrapped an arm around Jordan Hill’s shoulders and walked the rookie back to the Rockets bench, delivering instructions throughout the trip.

Before Hill could take a seat, Rockets assistant coach Jack Sikma stopped him for a few words. After he sat, Rockets director of player development Shawn Respert leaned in to offer more counsel.

Hill listened and nodded, having quickly grown accustomed to the attention, knowing that at every time out — or even dead ball — he could be hearing from Shane Battier, Chuck Hayes or Scola, followed by Sikma or Rick Adelman.

He also knew, however, that the amount of attention is a form of praise. It is not just a reflection on how much he has to learn, but on his potential, a form of rookie initiation that offers a far greater compliment than just fetching donuts or carrying bags of basketballs.

Breakthrough trip

"Poor guy," Scola said. "We’re just trying to help him make the least mistakes possible. He has a good attitude. Just by talking to him we can eliminate some of the mistakes you usually make when you’re young and come to a new team.

"He must be hating us by now."

Hill doesn’t. After a breakthrough road trip in which he took a spot in the rotation with an injury to center David Andersen, Hill repeatedly said he is "having fun." He had 12 points and eight rebounds (both career highs) against the Pistons on Sunday, then followed that with 11 points and eight rebounds against the Wizards on Tuesday, with a pair of offensive rebounds and putbacks helping the Rockets turn around a slow start late in the first quarter.

"I’m still trying to learn the system," said Hill, who did not play organized basketball until he was a junior in high school. "It’s a new team, so I listen to what they’ve got to say and try not to make the same mistakes. I just want to go out there, have fun, play basketball and show them what I’ve got."

The Rockets hope he can pick up more than just the system but do see potential that goes beyond his length, strong jumping ability and soft shooting touch.

"Jordan, in his short time, has shown he can pick up things," Sikma said. "On the defensive end, he has pretty good instincts. He’s able to figure out which angle he needs to take, sees where he needs to be ahead of time on pick-and-roll coverage and where the play is going. It’s just bits and pieces, but compared with other young players his tendency is to be closer to right than most.

"He’s got a lot of work to do, but I’m looking forward to working with him. He has a chance to really progress these (final) 19 games. If he keeps building, he can be a key contributor for us. He doesn’t have to do anything fantastic, just be solid on both ends and not fall asleep, not get lost on the play."

Earning his minutes

Hill, 22, was certain he could achieve that much now that he can get on the floor. The Knicks made him the eighth pick of the 2009 draft, but he played in just 24 games. In his first seven games with the Rockets, he played only when games were decided. But with his solid play on the road trip, he seemed destined for consistent minutes.

"It was kind of difficult, especially coming out of college," Hill said. "You were the star in college. I tried to just stay with it, get my turn. I had to get the system down, the defensive system, and try to work hard while I was on the floor. In New York, I wasn’t getting minutes. I was a pick-and-roll guy, and we didn’t have many plays. Here, we have a lot of plays that have a lot of options.

"I want to keep working, listening to the veterans."

Asked what they are telling him, Hill said, "Man, everything."

He gets that attention because of how much there is to learn. The Rockets also have seen what is possible if he masters those lessons.

"He’s got amazing potential," Battier said. "It’s a matter of trying to unlock that potential. He’s got a lot to learn. It’s almost a wasted year for him. He’s so far behind the curve basketball-wise. We’re trying to get him up to speed. He’s not going to figure it all out by the end of the season, but he’s got some talent. We’re trying to unleash that talent."

I still think Hill has questionable potential, but the Rockets are making the Knicks look really silly.

The Knicks gave this cat NO chance and essentially gave him away and immediately he is producing for another team. What are the Knicks priorities? Are we a professional basketball organization? This small Hill sample seems to drive home the difference between a professional Rockets franchise and the dysfunction-addled Knicks.

My frustration with D'ivatoni grows by the hour.

TMS wrote:the part of Jordan's quote where he pointed out how much variations in the offense they have in Houston but he was only running pick & roll in NY bothers me bigtime... i realize MDA can't implement his full SSOL system w/the current team because he lacks a PG who can run it, but i mean gimme a break... he had Jordan Hill only running in pick & rolls & nothing else... this is the guy people are calling an offensive genius? why can't he teach these guys a few simple plays other than just 2 guys running the damn P&R while 3 other guys are standing out by the 3 pt line on every single damn possession? you're a coach, BE a coach... i'm so sick of the lack of accountability w/this franchise... it sickens me more & more each year.

Don't worry once we get Lebron and Bosh and make trades for Collison and any other teams young talent we will be fine. MDA has it all under control. Mike got his brother Dan taking care of the D and he his taking of the O. Good fortunes await.

Pharzeone wrote:

TMS wrote:the part of Jordan's quote where he pointed out how much variations in the offense they have in Houston but he was only running pick & roll in NY bothers me bigtime... i realize MDA can't implement his full SSOL system w/the current team because he lacks a PG who can run it, but i mean gimme a break... he had Jordan Hill only running in pick & rolls & nothing else... this is the guy people are calling an offensive genius? why can't he teach these guys a few simple plays other than just 2 guys running the damn P&R while 3 other guys are standing out by the 3 pt line on every single damn possession? you're a coach, BE a coach... i'm so sick of the lack of accountability w/this franchise... it sickens me more & more each year.

Don't worry once we get Lebron and Bosh and make trades for Collison and any other teams young talent we will be fine. MDA has it all under control. Mike got his brother Dan taking care of the D and he his taking of the O. Good fortunes await.

WindsorPl wrote:Hate to pile on but Darko had 12 rebounds, 6 points, 2 assists, 1 bs in 26 minutes against Denver no less last night.
I can just imagine his message to D'Antoni

Hill is not a lead player and that means he's an expendable asset. I'm sure he'll be a fine player but we're trying to bring in bonafide studs. Who cares about ancillary players like Hill? The Bulls had a bunch of those guys and it doesn't get u over the top. Top 10 talents get u over the top. We can replace guys like Hill but getting a real stud is the hardest thing to do. So sacrificing Hill was well worth it to improve our chances of getting players that put you in title contention.

Marv wrote:

nixluva wrote:I find it amusing how far everyone is going with the MDA n DW bashing over this kid TD not getting a lot of PT and then the trade of Hill. In the end neither player is going to be the difference between a title for us or not. I remember how so many here used to use the Bulls as the example of how inept we were and how they were on their way to a contender with the talent they had. It hasn't exactly turned out that way even after they got a huge gift in drafting Rose. Building a winning team is extremely hard but the one thing you must have is the stud lead players at the core. That's why we traded Hill and a pick.

Hill is not a lead player and that means he's an expendable asset. I'm sure he'll be a fine player but we're trying to bring in bonafide studs. Who cares about ancillary players like Hill? The Bulls had a bunch of those guys and it doesn't get u over the top. Top 10 talents get u over the top. We can replace guys like Hill but getting a real stud is the hardest thing to do. So sacrificing Hill was well worth it to improve our chances of getting players that put you in title contention.

if hill is a "fine player" that means you have an active, long, athletic 6'10" to defend, block shots, be active on the offensive boards and hit the mid-range jumper - at 4 years for rookie scale!! THAT is what you're supposed to get rewarded with for having the 8th worst record in the league.

i think we've been rewarded enough this season with this cahones-less bunch of underperformers & their holier than thou leader at the helm... who wants to develop talented young kids like Jordan Hill & Toney Douglas when we can be developing journeymen vets with no future on this team instead? we all know guys like Fishlips, Bender, Duhon & Eddie House deserved playing time this season... wouldn't want to deprive these guys the opportunity to play for their next contracts... young kids can wait their damn turn!