nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:it's ok to admit walsh fubared this pick instead of making excuses for him. the guy himself said he was napping instead of scouting. admit it, suck it up, and move on.

10 games in can we say for sure that this is so cut n dry a flub on Walsh? I'm not so sure. Jennings is in a good spot to be able to play and pretty much just look to score which is the easiest thing for a scoring guard to do. Heck even TD can do that and he's not supposed to be as good based on where he was picked. We like TD's scoring but what do we always bring up? His PG skills! If Jennings were here would we want him to mostly look to score or would we want to see him try to make his teammates better?

I'll also be interested to see him go thru the league now that he's getting attention as a big time scorer. Will he adjust to more defensive attention?

i'm sorry nix but you know this city and this media market. it's not a kind environment to foster development of young players. hill will get some time to prove himself but if jennings continues like this, and the knicks don't get big time ballers this offseason, it will haunt them for a while.

Jennings is already tourching people. He is quick infectious and makes guys better. Teammates love playing with the kid. How often do bigs turn out to be great players that are projects. It's much more of science taking guard then a big in the draft.

If you are taking a point guard late in the draft why not take one early. A double double or close to it isn't tough to come by.

You can't list the negatives of a kid that was considered the best pg prospect before he went to Europe. As always on the knicks part it comes down to a lack off effective scouting and reaching. I'm hearing how young gallo is but lopez, gordon, jennings, randolph all these guys are young.

Donnie hasn't really done anything to make you say wow in years. Granger fell into his lap, but outside of that his moves have been very average, cautious and have not put us in a position to add players. Draft by position stop with the hyprids!

MS wrote:Listen 10 games in you can say that Walsh made the wrong decision two years in a row. What has Donnie done that has been special or a big time achievement. Nothing. But we have lest talent and the worst team in the NBA. There is no doubt that we will end up with the number 1 selection this season.

Jennings is already tourching people. He is quick infectious and makes guys better. Teammates love playing with the kid. How often do bigs turn out to be great players that are projects. It's much more of science taking guard then a big in the draft.

If you are taking a point guard late in the draft why not take one early. A double double or close to it isn't tough to come by.

You can't list the negatives of a kid that was considered the best pg prospect before he went to Europe. As always on the knicks part it comes down to a lack off effective scouting and reaching. I'm hearing how young gallo is but lopez, gordon, jennings, randolph all these guys are young.

Donnie hasn't really done anything to make you say wow in years. Granger fell into his lap, but outside of that his moves have been very average, cautious and have not put us in a position to add players. Draft by position stop with the hyprids!

McK1 wrote:1) the scouting report said he was streaky. 12 in a row was some streak.

2) draftexpress was the only site to follow him overseas and they said nothing remotely similar to what you are saying about his time over there.

3) its all about the jumpshot yet they wanted to pay Jason Kidd. Good Lord!...MDA whiffed on Rondo cuz ofthat same failed logic. wonder if the other attributes he already had would've helped his Suns team when Tony Parker was dropping 30 a night on them in the play-offs. Wonder now how the Knix transition game would look right now if they had someone that fast and that crafty with the ball running the show.

4) funny those same high school numbers had him projected as a lottery pick but he wasn't 19

5) exactly. highschool clips of mayo showed him taking wild shots as well. has no bearing on what they will do as pros. but aren't you an Arenas fan tho?

6) how is it spin. instead of going to buddenstv on youtube to get a story on brandon jennings, the media is actually seeking now to the person, his coaches, his professional associates etc.

Its not all about the jumpshot, its part of it though.

Your missing the point and missing it bigtime.

nobody is saying Jennings isnt talented or didnt have potential.

What I am saying is dropped to where he did for a lot of understandable reasons. His very small body of work after being a dominating HS player didnt help his value. Calling a shooter "streaky" is a nice way of saying if you let them shoot enough eventually a bunch will go in. We had Jamal Crawford (and he scored 55 also). Jennings hadnt done anything that showed he was ready to run and NBA or even be a starter. He was regarded as a talent PROJECT. Walsh made a decision not to draft him, and all I am saying is based on what he was working with its easy to see why he and all the other GMs that picked before him passed on Jennings.

JohnWallace44 wrote:Kahn screwed up as much as Donnie did.

I'm obviously a huge Syracuse fan. I've watched as many games as I possibly could have since Billy Owens was playing.

Flynn is from Niagara Falls, tough player, absolutely love the kid's attitude. He won that game against UConn all by himself, and UConn is basically a pro team in waiting. He's a winner. Now, that said, he's just not that high a pick. He can jump like crazy and that makes up for his size somewhat. He's gritty on defense... but he was never a better selection than Jennings, or half of these other guys and I said so at the time. He should have been drafted where Teague was. That would have been fair.

Great kid, will make the franchise proud, but man that was a reach for him.

Then the Rubio disaster...

Kahn could be sitting there with any combination of Jennings/DeRozan/Curry/Williams

Instead he only has Flynn and a somewhat tradeable asset.

That's rough.

Wow you said that Flynn was a reach and should have been drafted where Teague was drafted. WOW

THAT COMMENT IS A REACH, I have watched Johnny play since he was on JV squad in highschool.

He earned his draft status, Jonny has got better at his craft every yr. He and Jennings went head to head this yr johnny scored 20 pts and Jennings scored 9

fishmike wrote:
draft express said exactly the same thing... go read it.
WEAKNESSES:
- Decision making
- Dominant ball-handler
- Efficiency
- Out of control at times
- Shot-selection
- Ability to fight through screens
- Activity level
- Commitment to playing defense
- Man to man defense
- Academic issues?
- Leadership skills
- Not ready to contribute immediately
- Not productive enough
- Average size
- Upper body strength
- Poor rebounder
- 3-point shooting percentages
- Ability to catch and shoot
- Low shooting percentages

Its not all about the jumpshot, its part of it though.

Your missing the point and missing it bigtime.

nobody is saying Jennings isnt talented or didnt have potential.

What I am saying is dropped to where he did for a lot of understandable reasons. His very small body of work after being a dominating HS player didnt help his value. Calling a shooter "streaky" is a nice way of saying if you let them shoot enough eventually a bunch will go in. We had Jamal Crawford (and he scored 55 also). Jennings hadnt done anything that showed he was ready to run and NBA or even be a starter. He was regarded as a talent PROJECT. Walsh made a decision not to draft him, and all I am saying is based on what he was working with its easy to see why he and all the other GMs that picked before him passed on Jennings.

maybe I should've actually provided a link when I said they followed him over there.

here is one of the articles written by draftexpress while Jennings was in Europe and not just a pre-me scouting report:

A few blocks away, at the Palazzetto dello Sport, amongst the ruins of the 1960 Summer Olympic site, a 19-year old American by the name of Brandon Jennings is absolutely dominating an inter-squad scrimmage consisting of multiple members of the Italian national team and some of the most coveted import players in the Italian league.

Pitted against one of the best defenders in Europe in American guard Ibi Jaaber, Jennings gets to wherever he wants on the court, showing blazing speed, outstanding ball-handling skills, incredible creativity and a real flair for making flashy plays. He makes spot-up and pull-up jumpers from inside and outside the arc, runs the pick and roll to perfection while flicking gorgeous underhanded bounce-passes right on the money to a flashing Andre Hutson, and even tries to go up and challenge former NBA center Primoz Brezec in transition with an emphatic dunk.

Even though their regular season ended on Sunday, no one on the team knows when they will be playing their first game in the quarterfinals of the Italian playoffs. The league is evaluating a spiteful appeal made by legendary Italian team Fortitudo Bologna (formerly home to NBA players such as Dominique Wilkins, Marko Jaric, Carlos Delfino, and Marco Belinelli amongst others) against a narrow loss they suffered to Teramo this past weekend, which shockingly relegated them to the second division. The frivolous protest will surely be denied, but in the meantime, the entire league sits and waits for a new playoff schedule to come out. Just another day in the wacky world of Italian basketball.

Jennings’ situation isn’t much clearer. With the team having signed journeyman Slovenian power forward Jurica Golemac to add depth to their extremely banged up frontcourt, the future lottery pick may now be the odd man out when the team submits their 12-man roster on game-day, as Lottomatica Roma is now over the quota for foreigners. Welcome to the world of an American teenager in European basketball.

Despite the fact that his playing time has largely evaporated over the past six weeks, Jennings is taking everything in stride, handling himself with maturity not found amongst players 10 years his senior here in Europe. “That’s just the hand I’ve been dealt” Jennings says with a smile and shrug. “If I could do it all over again, I probably would have signed with a smaller team, but things haven’t worked out that bad.”

When given the opportunity, Jennings has shown he can be productive at this level. We had the chance to sit alongside two NBA head coaches and one Director of Player Personnel as Jennings played the second most minutes he’s seen all season long this past Sunday, as Rome knocked a bad Cantu team out of the playoffs in a game that was meaningless for his squad since they had already locked up the second seed in the playoffs in the previous round. 8 points, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, 3 rebounds and 2 steals was his final line. Having made a long trip out to Rome, we were all just happy to see him step on the court after notching a DNP-CD the previous week. Little did we know, Jennings would end up having one of his best games of the season.

One year ago we got the chance to see Jennings practice, scrimmage and play in the week leading up to the Jordan Brand Classic in New York. A few months prior to that, we saw him lead his Oak Hill squad to victory in the Hoophall Classic in Springfield. Comparing the Brandon Jennings we saw then with what we’re seeing now might make you rub your eyes in disbelief.

Gone is the brash, arrogant teenager with the Kid ’N Play style flat-top who dominated the ball in absolute fashion and looked first and foremost for his own shot, his stats and the ultimate high-light play. In his place is a much more mature, respectful young man, always cheering on his teammates, showing great body language and painstakingly trying to do what his coaches ask of him, almost to a fault at times.

In the second quarter, Jennings comes up with a steal and has a three on two transition opportunity. Not seeing the angle he was looking for, he pulls the ball out, waits for his teammates to run down the floor and calls a play, to the shock of everyone in attendance who had watched him play in America. “The Brandon Jennings of old would have never passed up that opportunity” the Director of Player Personnel sitting next to us points out while nodding his head. “Gotta limit those turnovers” Jennings explains to us afterwards. “My job is to be a pass-first point guard.”

A similar theme ensues for the rest of the night, as Jennings refuses to force the issue time after time, not hunting shots in the least bit, looking extremely focused on facilitating the offense, making the extra pass to the point that you may have wondered if he’s being a bit too passive even. Another transition opportunity occurs after yet another steal, and Jennings connects with Ibrahim Jaaber on a perfect give and go pass for an easy layup, as the ball doesn’t even touch the ground once.

As the game deteriorates into garbage time in the fourth quarter, we finally get to see some of that old flash come out—with a perfectly timed behind the back bounce pass to Andre Hutson, a beautiful alley-oop lob to Angelo Gigli, and then—gasp—a Rucker Park style behind the back pass-fake followed by a sneaky lay-in, plus the foul. “I needed to get a little something in there” Jennings chuckled afterwards, “although I don’t want to go too far.”

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Brandon-Jennings-Biding-his-Time-in-Rome-3212/

fishmike wrote:

if anything your making my point with this article even more.

Jennings looks great in practice. Are you saying that Walsh should have taken him based on some guy's report that he looked great in practice?
Jennings job is to be pass first and take care of the ball. He had 3 TOs

Again... what in that article tells you that Walsh or another GM should have taken him higher?

He's so mature that he's playing street style hoops in his token garbage minutes. Thats kind of true to the knocks on him no?

He seems like a good kid, but again... at the time he was drafted he had a ton of question marks and thats why he fell. So far those GMs are wrong. Thats how it goes.

Someone brought up Granger. If you take him with a high lottery pick and his knee's blow out and he doesnt play arent you a terrible GM for taking a guy with the history of knee problems?

Its all 2nd guessing.

My point is your full of crap if you are saying the Knicks are idiots for not taking Jennings, because NOBODY was saying that after the draft.

lmao...u ever see lebron at the end of a blowout, he takes a ton of circus shots...matter of fact he didit at the Garden.

but if all you got outta that entire article was "He's so mature that he's playing street style hoops in his token garbage minutes. Thats kind of true to the knocks on him no?" then thats all you could've possibly read was the last paragraph.

When given the opportunity, Jennings has shown he can be productive at this level. We had the chance to sit alongside two NBA head coaches and one Director of Player Personnel as Jennings played the second most minutes he’s seen all season long this past Sunday, as Rome knocked a bad Cantu team out of the playoffs in a game that was meaningless for his squad since they had already locked up the second seed in the playoffs in the previous round. 8 points, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, 3 rebounds and 2 steals was his final line. Having made a long trip out to Rome, we were all just happy to see him step on the court after notching a DNP-CD the previous week. Little did we know, Jennings would end up having one of his best games of the season.

One year ago we got the chance to see Jennings practice, scrimmage and play in the week leading up to the Jordan Brand Classic in New York. A few months prior to that, we saw him lead his Oak Hill squad to victory in the Hoophall Classic in Springfield. Comparing the Brandon Jennings we saw then with what we’re seeing now might make you rub your eyes in disbelief.

Gone is the brash, arrogant teenager with the Kid ’N Play style flat-top who dominated the ball in absolute fashion and looked first and foremost for his own shot, his stats and the ultimate high-light play. In his place is a much more mature, respectful young man, always cheering on his teammates, showing great body language and painstakingly trying to do what his coaches ask of him, almost to a fault at times.

In the second quarter, Jennings comes up with a steal and has a three on two transition opportunity. Not seeing the angle he was looking for, he pulls the ball out, waits for his teammates to run down the floor and calls a play, to the shock of everyone in attendance who had watched him play in America. “The Brandon Jennings of old would have never passed up that opportunity” the Director of Player Personnel sitting next to us points out while nodding his head. “Gotta limit those turnovers” Jennings explains to us afterwards. “My job is to be a pass-first point guard.”

A similar theme ensues for the rest of the night, as Jennings refuses to force the issue time after time, not hunting shots in the least bit, looking extremely focused on facilitating the offense, making the extra pass to the point that you may have wondered if he’s being a bit too passive even. Another transition opportunity occurs after yet another steal, and Jennings connects with Ibrahim Jaaber on a perfect give and go pass for an easy layup, as the ball doesn’t even touch the ground once.

The ^ 5 paragraphs prior about how he matured as a player and person are irrelevant I see. But what can I say...you did just post a copy of a scout report, written Dec 08 mind you, and leave off the strengths section.

As for draft night: it was a foregone coclusion NY was not taking Jennings once the Marbury 2.0 bs stereotypes were running as headlines.

I for one thought the Knix were idiots for having an 8 pick in a pg draft and leaving with a stiff like Hill.

You've won though. I've purchased your league pass product fishmike so that I can actually watch teams who care about winning.

McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

if anything your making my point with this article even more.

Jennings looks great in practice. Are you saying that Walsh should have taken him based on some guy's report that he looked great in practice?
Jennings job is to be pass first and take care of the ball. He had 3 TOs

Again... what in that article tells you that Walsh or another GM should have taken him higher?

He's so mature that he's playing street style hoops in his token garbage minutes. Thats kind of true to the knocks on him no?

He seems like a good kid, but again... at the time he was drafted he had a ton of question marks and thats why he fell. So far those GMs are wrong. Thats how it goes.

Someone brought up Granger. If you take him with a high lottery pick and his knee's blow out and he doesnt play arent you a terrible GM for taking a guy with the history of knee problems?

Its all 2nd guessing.

My point is your full of crap if you are saying the Knicks are idiots for not taking Jennings, because NOBODY was saying that after the draft.

lmao...u ever see lebron at the end of a blowout, he takes a ton of circus shots...matter of fact he didit at the Garden.

but if all you got outta that entire article was "He's so mature that he's playing street style hoops in his token garbage minutes. Thats kind of true to the knocks on him no?" then thats all you could've possibly read was the last paragraph.

When given the opportunity, Jennings has shown he can be productive at this level. We had the chance to sit alongside two NBA head coaches and one Director of Player Personnel as Jennings played the second most minutes he’s seen all season long this past Sunday, as Rome knocked a bad Cantu team out of the playoffs in a game that was meaningless for his squad since they had already locked up the second seed in the playoffs in the previous round. 8 points, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, 3 rebounds and 2 steals was his final line. Having made a long trip out to Rome, we were all just happy to see him step on the court after notching a DNP-CD the previous week. Little did we know, Jennings would end up having one of his best games of the season.

One year ago we got the chance to see Jennings practice, scrimmage and play in the week leading up to the Jordan Brand Classic in New York. A few months prior to that, we saw him lead his Oak Hill squad to victory in the Hoophall Classic in Springfield. Comparing the Brandon Jennings we saw then with what we’re seeing now might make you rub your eyes in disbelief.

Gone is the brash, arrogant teenager with the Kid ’N Play style flat-top who dominated the ball in absolute fashion and looked first and foremost for his own shot, his stats and the ultimate high-light play. In his place is a much more mature, respectful young man, always cheering on his teammates, showing great body language and painstakingly trying to do what his coaches ask of him, almost to a fault at times.

In the second quarter, Jennings comes up with a steal and has a three on two transition opportunity. Not seeing the angle he was looking for, he pulls the ball out, waits for his teammates to run down the floor and calls a play, to the shock of everyone in attendance who had watched him play in America. “The Brandon Jennings of old would have never passed up that opportunity” the Director of Player Personnel sitting next to us points out while nodding his head. “Gotta limit those turnovers” Jennings explains to us afterwards. “My job is to be a pass-first point guard.”

A similar theme ensues for the rest of the night, as Jennings refuses to force the issue time after time, not hunting shots in the least bit, looking extremely focused on facilitating the offense, making the extra pass to the point that you may have wondered if he’s being a bit too passive even. Another transition opportunity occurs after yet another steal, and Jennings connects with Ibrahim Jaaber on a perfect give and go pass for an easy layup, as the ball doesn’t even touch the ground once.

The ^ 5 paragraphs prior about how he matured as a player and person are irrelevant I see. But what can I say...you did just post a copy of a scout report, written Dec 08 mind you, and leave off the strengths section.

As for draft night: it was a foregone coclusion NY was not taking Jennings once the Marbury 2.0 bs stereotypes were running as headlines.

I for one thought the Knix were idiots for having an 8 pick in a pg draft and leaving with a stiff like Hill.

You've won though. I've purchased your league pass product fishmike so that I can actually watch teams who care about winning.

Go back and read what I wrote.

Because draftexpree writes an article about how good Jennings is in practice means Walsh should have picked him?

If you are the GM of the Knicks, list your reasons for drafting Jennings (over the other players). We all know and knew he was talented but tell me why Jennings over the guys in the draft.

Assuming our Euro scout saw every single minute Jennings played in games what's his arguement for having Walsh take Jennings over Hill? Because if you saw Hill play last year you saw a player that was unskilled and didnt play org BB until late in school become one of the best bigs in college ball. Add to it that all his coaches raved about his work ethic and attitude. Add to it that he SHOWED in 3 years he could go from being an athletic body to a skilled top tier player against his level of competitions. Jennings didnt show that overseas. Thats not to say he wasnt capable but if you are weight one guy against another the tendancy is to go with the guy thats SHOWN what he can do.

Is it really that hard to grasp?

Johnny Flynn was picked higher because he SHOWED what he could do and was a top flight guy against the level of competition he played against.

McK1 wrote:why assume that our euro scout whom is currently coaching florida international university and was busy recruiting lance stephenson at the time did any scouting of jennings when walsh has stated they had nothing on him?
why take him over hill and evryone else at 8? cuz he is an elite level talent at a position of need

If you watched every minute of Jennings games in Europe and had to make an evaluation what would it be?

Interior defense and physical toughness isnt a area of need?

Wasting our time here. You see what you want to see

tkf wrote:so for everyone that felt we didn't need a big and that we should have taken jennings.. Please answer this..

had we lucked out into the first pick in the draft, most of you are saying we should have picked jennings over Griffen.. right?

Just want to be sure here...

I wouldve taken Blake griffin like everyone else. I still would take Tyreke Evans over Jennings.