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Gallo's new nick name: Finito
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islesfan
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3/18/2009  11:22 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by jimimou:

thats impossible w a back condition. only thing that helps it get better is rest. the more you run on it, move, bend, etc, the more damage you do to the herniated disc(s).

I've never had herniated disks (that I know of) but I have had my share of back strains, spasms, sciatica, etc. It used to be more more problematic for me when I babied it. Now when it happens I stretch it out a lot and try to stay active as much as possible and it goes away quicker. Blood flow is really important to injuries. For instance, with most muscle strains the players are rehabbing the muscles after a day or two of icing and rest. Most players are put back into play long before they feel no pain.

Now if herniated disks are different than other muscle and bone damage in this regard I'd bite my tongue, but the idea of putting a player out there with limited minutes to see how he responds is not uncommon at all.

That said, bad backs are trouble, not trying to diminish anyone's concern, just saying I'm not convinced the situation has been as badly managed as some would have it.
[Edited by - blueseats on 03-18-2009 10:40 AM]

Herniated discs are very different. The pain can be debilitating and depending on which disc you herniate it effects your ability to walk with pain shooting down your legs. Obviously all back injuries aren't the same but I can't imagine that playing professional basketball, when you're not 100%, is good for a back injury.
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Marv
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3/18/2009  11:25 AM
Posted by martin:

you guys forgot to acknowledge that lumbardoodle is back! Where is Marv?

ld!! it's been days!

we heard gallo just got named rookie of the week and jason thompson came in 12th. what's with that???
Marv
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3/18/2009  11:26 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Personally I highly doubt he was injured weight training. Unless the kid was doing one rep maxes doing deep squats wearing no WL belt with no spot[which I also highly doubt was the case]. He got jarred by the Tractor Traylor--that was the blunt force that jarred his back. Ive never heard of someone injuring themselves so severely with BASIC weight training. There is no doubt about it you can hurt your back WT--but Like I said it would be an unnatural movement with a good deal of resistance---squatting dead lifts with very heavy weights but why would a basketball player be doing those type s of exercises with too much weight--especially if they are novices? A bench press isnt going to give you a herniated disk. I think the kid got hit hard and it jarred something in his back. If we remember back we was fine until that hit--he looked smooth in that game. It was the Tractor Traylor hit that did it.

briggs i been thinking the same thing.
djsunyc
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3/18/2009  11:44 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Personally I highly doubt he was injured weight training. Unless the kid was doing one rep maxes doing deep squats wearing no WL belt with no spot[which I also highly doubt was the case]. He got jarred by the Tractor Traylor--that was the blunt force that jarred his back. Ive never heard of someone injuring themselves so severely with BASIC weight training. There is no doubt about it you can hurt your back WT--but Like I said it would be an unnatural movement with a good deal of resistance---squatting dead lifts with very heavy weights but why would a basketball player be doing those type s of exercises with too much weight--especially if they are novices? A bench press isnt going to give you a herniated disk. I think the kid got hit hard and it jarred something in his back. If we remember back we was fine until that hit--he looked smooth in that game. It was the Tractor Traylor hit that did it.

briggs i been thinking the same thing.

similar to being in a car accident?
Allanfan20
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3/18/2009  11:45 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Personally I highly doubt he was injured weight training. Unless the kid was doing one rep maxes doing deep squats wearing no WL belt with no spot[which I also highly doubt was the case]. He got jarred by the Tractor Traylor--that was the blunt force that jarred his back. Ive never heard of someone injuring themselves so severely with BASIC weight training. There is no doubt about it you can hurt your back WT--but Like I said it would be an unnatural movement with a good deal of resistance---squatting dead lifts with very heavy weights but why would a basketball player be doing those type s of exercises with too much weight--especially if they are novices? A bench press isnt going to give you a herniated disk. I think the kid got hit hard and it jarred something in his back. If we remember back we was fine until that hit--he looked smooth in that game. It was the Tractor Traylor hit that did it.

briggs i been thinking the same thing.

I thought it was well established that it was Tractor Traylor all this time. Who said he hurt it or reinjured it from weight training?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Marv
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3/18/2009  11:47 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Personally I highly doubt he was injured weight training. Unless the kid was doing one rep maxes doing deep squats wearing no WL belt with no spot[which I also highly doubt was the case]. He got jarred by the Tractor Traylor--that was the blunt force that jarred his back. Ive never heard of someone injuring themselves so severely with BASIC weight training. There is no doubt about it you can hurt your back WT--but Like I said it would be an unnatural movement with a good deal of resistance---squatting dead lifts with very heavy weights but why would a basketball player be doing those type s of exercises with too much weight--especially if they are novices? A bench press isnt going to give you a herniated disk. I think the kid got hit hard and it jarred something in his back. If we remember back we was fine until that hit--he looked smooth in that game. It was the Tractor Traylor hit that did it.

briggs i been thinking the same thing.

I thought it was well established that it was Tractor Traylor all this time. Who said he hurt it or reinjured it from weight training?

those who shall remain nameless.
franco12
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3/18/2009  11:51 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by BasketballJones:

Gallo's back is the new Marbury.

It's luring interns into the truck?

It's grist for the UK thread mill.

No- Gallo and Marbury both will probably never play another minute for the Knicks!
Marv
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3/18/2009  12:01 PM
we oughta unban playa just for 1 day so he can post all over this thread

[Edited by - marv on 03-18-2009 12:01 PM]
martin
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3/18/2009  12:03 PM
Posted by Marv:

we oughta unban playa just for 1 day so he can post all over this thread

[Edited by - marv on 03-18-2009 12:01 PM]

the dude has a back-up of like 6 months worth of conspiracy threads he wants to talk about, think he has time for Gallo?
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Marv
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3/18/2009  12:05 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Marv:

we oughta unban playa just for 1 day so he can post all over this thread

[Edited by - marv on 03-18-2009 12:01 PM]

the dude has a back-up of like 6 months worth of conspiracy threads he wants to talk about, think he has time for Gallo?

i bet he has evidence of the world bank and the illuminati playing a role in the gallo fiasco.

nyk4ever
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3/18/2009  12:53 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Marv:

we oughta unban playa just for 1 day so he can post all over this thread

[Edited by - marv on 03-18-2009 12:01 PM]

the dude has a back-up of like 6 months worth of conspiracy threads he wants to talk about, think he has time for Gallo?

i bet he has evidence of the world bank and the illuminati playing a role in the gallo fiasco.

They didn't have a role?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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3/18/2009  1:02 PM
i'm still a little confused on why he's going back to italy. aren't there more back specialists in the states he can see? this sounds more like a homesick kid that just needs a break mentally. not saying that's a bad thing but what kind of radical treatment are they using in italy that you can't find here where he can be closely monitored? are they gonna start him on some homeopathic stuff? my grandfather can give him some sugar pills if that's the case. or maybe they're gonna go on that enyspree juice, pee till it burns, cleansing process...
SupremeCommander
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3/18/2009  1:06 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Isles, and Pharz, it's almost never that a player waits to be 100% healed before getting back on the court. It was probably a turn of phrase to mean they were waiting for doctors to clear him, or that they were going to give rest a reasonable amount of time before rushing him out there. But when rest wasn't producing results they decided to see if things would remain stable or heal from activity, as is the case most of the time.

What I've argued with you guys about was that just because D' said "he's got to be 100%" it didn't justify people demanding he start or get major minutes when it was pretty clear (at least to me) that he was still laboring through the injury.

The back has always been a red flag for me, but unlike you guys I've never been in denial about it, in spite of what management may or may not have said.

If the GM of the freaking team says the back isn't a problem and that he should get major minutes. You mean he is lying or hoodwinking me and fellow fans? For what purpose? I thought we were done with that stuff. The fact of the matter is that management declared it a non-issue during the summer when fans and the press were starting to wonder if the Knicks used a lottery pick on a lemon. So Walsh put up this "misinformation" campaign is that what you are telling me? Like I said your issue is not with me but with the gm and the Knicks medical staff. Who by the way, also said no surgery is necessary but now the kid is flying off to areas unknown to have what done? I can't sit back and evaluate a player while wondering if management and/or the player is telling the truth about an injury that may or may not be a serious issue. If management said that he got the rest he needed and is feeling much better and healthy then I think I have little choice but to say hey the back isn't an explanation to why he is underperforming on certain nights but he is healthy on his good nights.

For the record I always thought the back was a major issue going back to the summer. Not news here. I was advocating surgery when Nix was dismissing such talk. Back when the player informed the press that this back issue is something he is going to have to learn to live with. Back when other posters and pompous bloggers indicated that he was misquoted because english wasn't his first language.

My problem in discussing this with you is you keep referring to statements by Walsh I've never seen. You keep saying Walsh was declaring this a non problem when we've known all along it's a problem. The dude wasn't playing, so of course there was a prolem. SO there's this basic disconnect over how you saw the situation unfolding vs how I did.

I'll bet you were a producer/project managemer or frequently crossed paths with them

What does that mean? I'm talking about what we all were exposed to as fans. Let me ask you, when Gallo was missing games did you think his back was 100%?

I'm not arguing with you... ultimately what I said means nothing... but I just started as a project manager and I barely heard "disconnect" used in conversation before this job, now I hear it every 3 minutes
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Marv
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3/18/2009  1:06 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i'm still a little confused on why he's going back to italy. aren't there more back specialists in the states he can see? this sounds more like a homesick kid that just needs a break mentally. not saying that's a bad thing but what kind of radical treatment are they using in italy that you can't find here where he can be closely monitored? are they gonna start him on some homeopathic stuff? my grandfather can give him some sugar pills if that's the case. or maybe they're gonna go on that enyspree juice, pee till it burns, cleansing process...

he's been getting "treatment" here for 8 months and it an't working. i bet his pops has some connections with the best specialists in his country. why not do it?

djsunyc
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3/18/2009  1:10 PM
Posted by Marv:

he's been getting "treatment" here for 8 months and it an't working. i bet his pops has some connections with the best specialists in his country. why not do it?

bargs doesn't have time to look for back specialists. the season ain't over yet.
franco12
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3/18/2009  1:15 PM
I don't think I've seen anyone post this to this thread, but even if Gallo had back surgery today, he is most likely done for next season as well- at least for the start.

Maybe Gallo is the player Walsh is hoping can save us in 2010, as that might be the soonest he suits up again!
Paladin55
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3/18/2009  1:24 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Apparently there's a misconception that the docs Gallo or any other pro athlete sees are only guys chosen by the team and somehow they give medical advice that is bad or deceptive. A respected specialist with no ties to the team isn't going to ignore a serious condition just so the kid can play. As I and many others have said surgery is a last resort.

We still don't now if two more specialists will not also recommend rest and therapy over the knife.
Maybe they suggest another non surgical treatment. It's odd that some assume that he must need surgery at this point and that hasn't been determined. If he does need to have an operation that still doesn't mean it was wrong to give therapy a chance 1st.

When people see the expression "possible surgery," or the word surgery in any context, they immediately jump to conclusions.

As for the experts issue- you might have a disagreement of opinion among experts, and who determines which one should be listened to. You also have a situation where a particular doctor gets a lot of business from a particular source and they sometimes favor the interests of the people they are getting paid by. I don't want to start another conspiracy theory, and I have no specific info about the doctors Gallinari has seen here, but this type of thing does go on at times.

It is simply possible that he needed complete rest and rehab without the BB playing, and that while his back was not getting worse, it was not getting better either.

We are better off with him shutting things down for the rest of the season at this point.
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Paladin55
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3/18/2009  1:36 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Personally I highly doubt he was injured weight training. Unless the kid was doing one rep maxes doing deep squats wearing no WL belt with no spot[which I also highly doubt was the case]. He got jarred by the Tractor Traylor--that was the blunt force that jarred his back. Ive never heard of someone injuring themselves so severely with BASIC weight training. There is no doubt about it you can hurt your back WT--but Like I said it would be an unnatural movement with a good deal of resistance---squatting dead lifts with very heavy weights but why would a basketball player be doing those type s of exercises with too much weight--especially if they are novices? A bench press isnt going to give you a herniated disk. I think the kid got hit hard and it jarred something in his back. If we remember back we was fine until that hit--he looked smooth in that game. It was the Tractor Traylor hit that did it.

Gallinari has gone down harder on charges since the Traylor hit, and he has gotten up an continued with no problem.

Novices sometimes use too much weight, and they are also unaware that the "no pain, no gain" maxim, which is true in many ways, may not apply to certain pains and discomforts.

I go through this all the time with the HS kids I work with- they try to max out and push the limits, and they sometimes lift too much and injure themselves, although it is usually around their shoulder area. On the other hand, they frequently think that the muscle pains you experience when doing efficient lifting, are also a sign of injury.

You would really have to look at the Knicks conditioning workouts to know for sure if he might have been hurt lifting.



No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
BlueSeats
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3/18/2009  1:58 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:


I'm not arguing with you... ultimately what I said means nothing... but I just started as a project manager and I barely heard "disconnect" used in conversation before this job, now I hear it every 3 minutes

Ah, gotcha. Well, I'm kind of a project unto myself that constantly needs to be managed. Unfortunately I'm not very good at it.
nixluva
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3/18/2009  2:53 PM
The hardest thing to do in Sports is to TOTALLY shut it down. People talk about that, but unless a guy has a broken leg, major tear or something debilitating like that, players and teams will try to get the guy back out there before the 100% level is reached. Pro and Amateur athletes are rarely ever 100% anyway. It's the nature of the beast to have some nagging injury or pain.

Look at Q. He's been able to at least resume his career after the surgery. I remember arguing with guys that he would be fine after the surgery and I was told that I didn't know what I was talking about. Q is never going to be exactly what he was, but he's able to play. Maybe with Gallo being younger he'll have a much better response to surgery and will be closer to 100% after than Q is. It's possible.
Gallo's new nick name: Finito

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