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Some recent observations on Chandler
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Cosmic
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12/31/2008  9:10 PM
And....just in case ANYONE has forgotten what this topic is about....I have flash cards.

(there should be images to follow, three of em, all pretty 'n stuff, if not, then tinypic sucks!)








These were all posted during the pre-game or during the early moments of the Bobcats game, so, the stats don't include that game.

Yeah, I'd call it legit concern, and a reason to have a discussion about Harrington, Chandler, and the Knicks in general. *picks up poking stick* Why that upsets some, well, I guess it's up to them to tell us. *puts down poking stick*

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BasketballJones
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12/31/2008  9:17 PM
Posted by 4949:

But what did you mean by this Cosmic? This looks like an indecipherable bizarre comment.

'Lebron's garbage, but only slightly better than Crawful. Did I ever mention to you how much I can't stand Crawful? He's a BUM! Anyway, I think the Knicks oughtta re-sign Roberson to a full MLE contract after this season, he's a keeper. He's so much better than Crawful, that BUM'!!!

And 4949 is an expert on indecipherable bizarre comments, so he should know.
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Cosmic
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12/31/2008  9:20 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by 4949:

But what did you mean by this Cosmic? This looks like an indecipherable bizarre comment.

'Lebron's garbage, but only slightly better than Crawful. Did I ever mention to you how much I can't stand Crawful? He's a BUM! Anyway, I think the Knicks oughtta re-sign Roberson to a full MLE contract after this season, he's a keeper. He's so much better than Crawful, that BUM'!!!

And 4949 is an expert on indecipherable bizarre comments, so he should know.

He is? See, I still haven't caught on to all the abilities of the UK crew.

Yet, as good as he may be, he won't figure that one out, cause it does not even exist, except in TMS mind. Now unless that is some sort of entity that drives the heart and soul of UK then he's going to find a dead end.

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Pharzeone
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12/31/2008  9:29 PM
Cosmic as far as I am concern "the fall of the Knicks" begins and ends with the play of their point guard. You can directly traced the Knicks bad play to his huge dip in production and increase mental breakdowns. The last good game I actually saw him play was the Golden State game. He has struggled mightly against younger quicker guards but also had trouble against older guards recently. There are his defenders who refuse to access any blame towards him for some reason. Gus Johnson called him out on Sunday. Maybe Nate's return has hamper his progress or maybe he is just tired but so are all the other players.
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Cosmic
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12/31/2008  9:44 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Cosmic as far as I am concern "the fall of the Knicks" begins and ends with the play of their point guard. You can directly traced the Knicks bad play to his huge dip in production and increase mental breakdowns. The last good game I actually saw him play was the Golden State game. He has struggled mightly against younger quicker guards but also had trouble against older guards recently. There are his defenders who refuse to access any blame towards him for some reason. Gus Johnson called him out on Sunday. Maybe Nate's return has hamper his progress or maybe he is just tired but so are all the other players.

I agree....somewhat...and it was covered "somewhat" in that Duhon thread. Was it quality of opponents? (not likely, we seen good play against all qualities). Was it minutes? (Hey, Duhon never played this much, so it's a theory that has legs). Was it the trades? (nope, cause, they played even HARDER after those.) Was it the fact they played hard but kept losing? (Sure, but, you never want a team, especially a team of professionals, to give into a MENTAL side of things!). Who knows...? Too short of a sample size I say to call it more than a Lapse and say it's a Trend.

Yet I still maintain, and maybe this is subsequent reaction as a result of Duhon's breakdown or maybe not (the conflict I have with the idea): That Nate began to freelance more and more and go 1-1 more and more. Once that happened I think Harrington, who is prone to do the same, started to also go 1-1 to "get his". Chandler then followed.

It seems to have been a domino effect and maybe you are correct that it began with Duhon.

It began somewhere but I still maintain that as a whole the team had given up on the moral victories and started to just go through the motions. The Laker loss - didn't sting them individually....but it was a final game in a string of games that they could have very well gone 5-0 but had just enough breakdowns to go 2-3(right?). I think that did them in.

I don't like the conclusion as to why: They went mentally soft. For that means nobody on this team is worth keeping. I hope it was just a LAPSE and not a TREND.

Time will tell and I think the Charlotte game showed some evidence that it was a lapse. For the Charlotte game was kind of a mix of that moral-victory-hard-fighting-team and the oh-whoas-me-we-cant-win-anyway-so-why-try-team.

We'll see as time goes on (yeah, cliche from hell) as to which it is.

One thing I have noticed, and I meant to make a thread of it but had not done enough research to do so, is that old Knicks team of 3 quarters of solid play had resurfaced! Where there's just ONE quarter in every loss where we got DESTROYED - but - the other 3 quarters we won or were at least even in play.

I guess the bottom line is there's a LOT going on here and so many reason why we're not playing "up to potential" if you will.

Charlotte game was better, but, those previous six games reeked of "who cares just pay me so I can go home" and those are the games that murder you as a fan...and, lo and behold (lol, picks up poking stick again) leads to THREADS LIKE THIS! (racist hatters be dammned!)

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misterearl
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1/1/2009  10:15 AM
The Mayor In 2009 Will be Fine

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix015984002jan01,0,1516643.story?track=rss

Al Harrington and Nate Robinson have picked up most of the scoring load, but the Knicks clearly lack a consistent scorer who can be counted on down the stretch, which is one of the reasons why they struggle to close out games. Chandler, though he's still very raw at 21, could develop into that player.

"That's a whole 'nother level," Richardson said. "He's moving along greatly, but that's a lot to ask of Wilson right now. We've got other guys - Al is a great scorer and he can be a go-to guy - and we've got other guys who can get buckets for us. But at different times, you're going to see that out of Will because his athleticism, his natural game, just comes out sometime."

Chandler, who is averaging 14.5 points per game, should be more of a consistent producer but often defers to veteran players. This is something he acknowledges.

Said Chandler, "I think I think too much sometimes."
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nixluva
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1/1/2009  3:04 PM
I think we have to allow Chandler to adjust his game and grow. It takes some guys years to develop their offensive game plan. Just look at how LeBron is starting to develop a more specific plan of attack. He's still not all the way there, but his superior physical talent makes up for it. Josh Smith is also still trying to learn how to actually score effectively and doesn't really have a go to move or two.

The last game will help Chan to realize that he can go hard to the basket and his post game interview shows that he realized that and was aggressive on purpose. Now he has to keep looking to do that late in games. Chan has to refine a patented move or two so that he can score more efficiently and not get caught unsure of what he's going to do.

My son and I were commenting on how Chan doesn't seem to realize when he can just enforce his will on his opponent. He had obvious moments when he should've just went up strong on a fast break or when he was penetrating straight down the middle of the lane and should've just threw it down instead of trying to make some kind of finesse move. He's so strong but doesn't seem to realize it.
4949
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1/1/2009  7:41 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by 4949:

But what did you mean by this Cosmic? This looks like an indecipherable bizarre comment.

'Lebron's garbage, but only slightly better than Crawful. Did I ever mention to you how much I can't stand Crawful? He's a BUM! Anyway, I think the Knicks oughtta re-sign Roberson to a full MLE contract after this season, he's a keeper. He's so much better than Crawful, that BUM'!!!

And 4949 is an expert on indecipherable bizarre comments, so he should know.

Why would you comment on a question that was meant for Cosmo? Maybe your a indecipherable bizarre commentator?
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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1/1/2009  7:43 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by 4949:

But what did you mean by this Cosmic? This looks like an indecipherable bizarre comment.

'Lebron's garbage, but only slightly better than Crawful. Did I ever mention to you how much I can't stand Crawful? He's a BUM! Anyway, I think the Knicks oughtta re-sign Roberson to a full MLE contract after this season, he's a keeper. He's so much better than Crawful, that BUM'!!!

And 4949 is an expert on indecipherable bizarre comments, so he should know.

He is? See, I still haven't caught on to all the abilities of the UK crew.

And that's a good thing.
I'll never trust this' team again.
BasketballJones
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1/1/2009  8:12 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by 4949:

But what did you mean by this Cosmic? This looks like an indecipherable bizarre comment.

'Lebron's garbage, but only slightly better than Crawful. Did I ever mention to you how much I can't stand Crawful? He's a BUM! Anyway, I think the Knicks oughtta re-sign Roberson to a full MLE contract after this season, he's a keeper. He's so much better than Crawful, that BUM'!!!

And 4949 is an expert on indecipherable bizarre comments, so he should know.

Why would you comment on a question that was meant for Cosmo? Maybe your a indecipherable bizarre commentator?

What, I can't comment on questions meant for Cosmo? Bizarre.
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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1/2/2009  9:20 AM
Posted by nixluva:

I think we have to allow Chandler to adjust his game and grow. It takes some guys years to develop their offensive game plan. Just look at how LeBron is starting to develop a more specific plan of attack. He's still not all the way there, but his superior physical talent makes up for it. Josh Smith is also still trying to learn how to actually score effectively and doesn't really have a go to move or two.

The last game will help Chan to realize that he can go hard to the basket and his post game interview shows that he realized that and was aggressive on purpose. Now he has to keep looking to do that late in games. Chan has to refine a patented move or two so that he can score more efficiently and not get caught unsure of what he's going to do.

My son and I were commenting on how Chan doesn't seem to realize when he can just enforce his will on his opponent. He had obvious moments when he should've just went up strong on a fast break or when he was penetrating straight down the middle of the lane and should've just threw it down instead of trying to make some kind of finesse move. He's so strong but doesn't seem to realize it.

Agreed. He's 21, he does stupid things. Everyone does stupid things at 21. We can't compare him to the Lebron's and the Wade's of the world who were able to elevate their teams at a young age. We can't compare him to 10 year vets with playoff experience. We have to compare him to the rest of the 21 year olds that come into the league. When you do that, you start to realize that has a chance to be pretty good. My only concern about Wilson is that one of his knocks in college was that he drifted in and out of games in terms of aggressiveness. He is doing similar things in the pros. After a few years in the pros we will learn if this is just him deferring to vets and he will become more agressive with time. Or if this is a personality trait that will frustrate us for years. Either way, the end result is not set in stone for a 21 year old. He has time to develop and is doing nicely so far. Once again, this is essentially his rookie year. Any rookie or 2nd year player averaging 14 pts, 5.7 rebounds, a steal and a block per game would be heralded by us. We would be dreaming of having a player like this.
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misterearl
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1/2/2009  11:04 AM
Great Expectations

Curious to note that Chandler, (drafted in 2007 with only two years of college experience), has jumped from last seasons pine brother - to suddenly starting player - to potential "go-to" clutch fourth quarter man (Newsday) in the blink of a 65 game NBA career.

As the bip has accurately summarized, "... this is essentially his rookie year. Any rookie or 2nd year player averaging 14 pts, 5.7 rebounds, a steal and a block per game would be heralded by us."

Note: During his sophomore season at DePaul, he averaged 14.7 points, 6.9 rebounds, and 1.4 blocks per game.

Perhaps.

Those numbers only tell a part of Chandler's story. As another poster outlined, those stats can also be considered in the context of a Knicks franchise in turmoil. In contrast, Ariza, in his third season, is heralded as an essential "game-changer" on the more stable and talented Lakers. He plays his role as a reserve instead of a leader. His errors are masked by veterans who compensate with cohesion and more victories. The learning curve for Ariza is made more graceful and gradual.

In no way is this contrast in context intended as an excuse for The Mayor. As his campaign manager, I stand behind the 2006 promise that he will fulfil his promise by his third year in office.

Furthermore, I promise there will be an epiphany moment THIS year, when Chander trusts his intuition, talent and confidence simultaneously. The process will be a beautiful thing to witness.

Vote early and often.



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Bippity10
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1/2/2009  11:11 AM
"Furthermore, I promise there will be an epiphany moment THIS year, when Chander trusts his intuition, talent and confidence simultaneously. The process will be a beautiful thing to witness."

Ahhhh the epiphany moment. Seen it a million times in highschool, college and the pros. The main reason why you don't determine a players ceiling 10, 50, 65, 100 games into their careers.
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EnySpree
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1/2/2009  11:49 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

"Furthermore, I promise there will be an epiphany moment THIS year, when Chander trusts his intuition, talent and confidence simultaneously. The process will be a beautiful thing to witness."

Ahhhh the epiphany moment. Seen it a million times in highschool, college and the pros. The main reason why you don't determine a players ceiling 10, 50, 65, 100 games into their careers.

yeah he hasn't hit that moment....hopefully he will but he hasn't yet....this is exactly what I mean anout my swagger comments.
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misterearl
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1/2/2009  12:02 PM
Barack Obama has a quiet swagger.

The Formula?

intuition, talent + confidence = swagger

EnySpree - I would submit that swagger, for most NBA ballers, (even those WITH Nike shoe contracts) is a by-product of year 3.

we Knicks fans should be so fortunate. Speaking of swagger, are you headed to The Inauguration?


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EnySpree
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1/2/2009  12:13 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Barack Obama has a quiet swagger.

The Formula?

intuition, talent + confidence = swagger

EnySpree - I would submit that swagger, for most NBA ballers, (even those WITH Nike shoe contracts) is a by-product of year 3.

we Knicks fans should be so fortunate. Speaking of swagger, are you headed to The Inauguration?

i would love to go down there for that...i'm off and everything...but i don't have a place to stay. it's all about the history but yeah...i don't wanna be stressed the hell out and freezing either.
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misterearl
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1/2/2009  2:12 PM
EnySpree - I feel your hesitation and fear of all things too cold, but let's look at the "upside". Washington DC will be brimming with more parties per capita than in any city at any time in the history of mankind. People will talk about this event eons after we are long gone. The parade alone features the bands of Howard, Grampbling and Florida A&M Universities. As far as the parade chill, that ain't nothin' a one-piece ski suit can't solve.

Are you kidding me?

Forget the black tie affairs, I'l be hanging out at Ben's Chili Bowl on 14th and U afterwards where the half-smokes will be steaming and the juke box will be cranked all the way up.

Times Square on New Years Eve is a Sunday tea at Aunt Bea's house in comparison to this paradigm shift of an event.

(The Mayor goes for 19 and 8 rebounds tonight. Book it.)
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misterearl
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1/4/2009  7:49 PM
"Furthermore, I promise there will be an epiphany moment THIS year, when Chander trusts his intuition, talent and confidence simultaneously. The process will be a beautiful thing to witness."

Now, I'm not sayin' tonight is it but...
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misterearl
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1/4/2009  8:35 PM
... 31 and 8 in your 43rd NBA start, against the Celtics, is a very positive hint of things to come

best of all, he got after Pierce on defense in the 4th quarter after he abused Richardson

(Vote early and often)
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K22
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1/4/2009  9:02 PM
He seems to be slowly but surely becoming the "go-to" guy.
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
Some recent observations on Chandler

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