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BRIGGS
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12/19/2008  11:37 PM
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Cosmic:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

The Knicks gave up on this season the second we traded Randolph---now they need to go all the way and rebuild the team.

They did? What do you call all the inspired play since then?

UMMM 5-12

Okay, so you don't watch games, you don't look at boxscores, you JUST read the standings to judge the team?

I see there's nothing else to debate/discuss then....

5-12 is 5-12 and tomorrow 5-13 is 5-13. That is the bottom line. Were not playing with rookies. The second we gave up our low post 20-10 player--we became a team that has to rely on a jumpshot and no matter how inspired a team plays in high school college or the pros--it's the bottom line result.

You sound as though you really wanted Zach Randolph to be our player of the future... cause he has truly been successful. Teams win and teams lose. Without a doubt this team has not won more than they have lost, but I love that they keep playing for the win (even though tonight stunk). All I am saying is that they keep trying to establish a culture of winning. Maybe it is smarter to be like Miami and tank for the #1 draft pick... but that stinks worse... I'll this kind of team any day of the week because the culture of the team is different (if not the outcome).

what environment we got jobbed by Milwaukee at home by 20--were 5-12 since the trade. Now we'll spenmd the next 10 years trying to find a 20-10 player. No Zach Randolph is not the win all but we were doing good this year with him. What was the rush to trade him? And if there was a rush then go all the way with it. This half-arsed approach will end up getting us no where.
RIP Crushalot😞
AUTOADVERT
Cosmic
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12/19/2008  11:48 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

what environment we got jobbed by Milwaukee at home by 20--were 5-12 since the trade. Now we'll spenmd the next 10 years trying to find a 20-10 player. No Zach Randolph is not the win all but we were doing good this year with him. What was the rush to trade him? And if there was a rush then go all the way with it. This half-arsed approach will end up getting us no where.

Okay, LAST TIME, STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE.

STOP harping on 6-3. It ended up 6-5 BTW because Crawful who went a bustacular 3-15 tonight, and ZachAss, who always destroyed ball movement and the interest of our entire team, had two classic games in a row.

STOP pretending we were going to win 6 out of every 9 games we ever played for the rest of the season. WE NEVER WOULD HAVE.

Crawful and ZachAss were here last year too, BRIGGS, how'd that go?

I'm going to tell you something, something that is probably shared by other fans, I enjoy this 5-12 team MUCH MORE (sans tonights debacle) than that 6-3 team.

Why? That 6-3 team, again, beat up on CRAP teams, and was a 1-1 gunning show of trash, that was never going to do any better than 35-38 wins at their best.

Jeez, man, I don't know what else to tell you here. If you're so longing for Zach go watch the Clippers? I dunno. Start threads up of "We've got cap space in 2011, Zach and Craw are free agents, let's sign them." ?

I dunno man.

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
GKFv2
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12/19/2008  11:48 PM
Briggs, check yourself bro. You're always living in a fantasy land pretending to think everything you say is right and that's how the Earth turns. No, it's not. You're wrong. It doesn't take 10 years to find a rebounding cross of Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis. It surely does not. What was the rush to trade him? What rush? He took all summer and found nothing. The Clippers were the only team that wanted Zach and terrible contract. Look how great the Clippers have been doing since they added superstar Zach on that roster. The empty stat man is still doing his thing I see. Same thing with Crawford. So keep living in fantasy land Briggs. That's all you do anyway. That or proposing trades for your prized possessions like Anthony Randolph or telling us how amazing Andrew Bynum is.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
BRIGGS
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12/19/2008  11:55 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by BRIGGS:

what environment we got jobbed by Milwaukee at home by 20--were 5-12 since the trade. Now we'll spenmd the next 10 years trying to find a 20-10 player. No Zach Randolph is not the win all but we were doing good this year with him. What was the rush to trade him? And if there was a rush then go all the way with it. This half-arsed approach will end up getting us no where.

Okay, LAST TIME, STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE.

STOP harping on 6-3. It ended up 6-5 BTW because Crawful who went a bustacular 3-15 tonight, and ZachAss, who always destroyed ball movement and the interest of our entire team, had two classic games in a row.

STOP pretending we were going to win 6 out of every 9 games we ever played for the rest of the season. WE NEVER WOULD HAVE.

Crawful and ZachAss were here last year too, BRIGGS, how'd that go?

I'm going to tell you something, something that is probably shared by other fans, I enjoy this 5-12 team MUCH MORE (sans tonights debacle) than that 6-3 team.

Why? That 6-3 team, again, beat up on CRAP teams, and was a 1-1 gunning show of trash, that was never going to do any better than 35-38 wins at their best.

Jeez, man, I don't know what else to tell you here. If you're so longing for Zach go watch the Clippers? I dunno. Start threads up of "We've got cap space in 2011, Zach and Craw are free agents, let's sign them." ?

I dunno man.

This team plays an all or nothing style. Yes more fun to watch if we consider we scked the last 8 years. But in reality we still sck and we face the reality that we may lose some of the key players who are here. So why not wait it out and try to win? Were not winning with this team--we dont have enough. and at the end of the year David Lee is gone for nothing.
RIP Crushalot😞
Cosmic
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12/20/2008  12:10 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:


This team plays an all or nothing style. Yes more fun to watch if we consider we scked the last 8 years. But in reality we still sck and we face the reality that we may lose some of the key players who are here. So why not wait it out and try to win? Were not winning with this team--we dont have enough. and at the end of the year David Lee is gone for nothing.

For...it was already proven within a reasonable doubt that we were _never_ "winning" with the roster we had before. That roster had run it's course. Maybe at best it makes the 1st round. Then what?

See, we're not playing to win this season or the next. We're trying to build a foundation of chemistry, accountability, and camaraderie the next two years. While doing that we will continue to remove the bad players, keep the good young players, and then when the time comes that we have the cap space we will add players that will be a part of building a WINNING TEAM.

That's the plan this go around, BRIGGS, that's the plan. Not the old Isiah plan of "Well, we're a 30 win team, if I add (this guy) maybe we win 35 and that's awesome!"

Nope, this go around, the plan is "Wow, this roster stunk it up for five years, we need to tear it down, and start over."

Well, we "Start Over" the summer of 2010. In the meantime, again, we lay the groundwork for a system that players get added to so when they come on board they are ADDED to a system and not the START of a system.

Patience man, patience!!!

I think when all is said and done at most from this roster we keep SOME OF (not all, just, some of) the following of: Lee, Nate, Chandler, Duhon, Gallo, Harrington, 09 draft pick. Everyone else is DEFINITELY gone!

And then we have a heck of a field of free agents to choose from in 2010 AND 2011.

That's the plan man! The plan wasn't to try to win 40 games and sneak into the playoffs only to get torched by Boston or Orlando or Cleveland. Then do the Isiah thing and add an MLE player like Jeffries and hope he takes you to the second round.

We not only DID that for five years - it failed so badly - the new regime knew it had to be ripped apart before we could play that game again.

We will play that game again in 2011 and beyond - once we have a solid core that you can add to!

That's what this is all about BRIGGS. That's what you gotta start looking at as a fan.
http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
BRIGGS
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12/20/2008  12:27 AM
. We're trying to build a foundation of chemistry, accountability, and camaraderie the next two years.


With what players--most of them we be gone--
RIP Crushalot😞
Cosmic
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12/20/2008  12:35 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

. We're trying to build a foundation of chemistry, accountability, and camaraderie the next two years.


With what players--most of them we be gone--

I give up on ya... you just want to trash everything going on. While figuring out trades of Lee for Anthony Randolph.

Well, good luck with that bud. Have a blast.

No disrespect but I completely disagree with your assertions on our team and the direction of our team.

Good things are coming down the pike. Things we haven't seen for 8 years now. It's curious to me that you want to cling to aspects of our past losing seasons thinking they were on the verge of producing winning seasons of epic proportions. Yet I can't understand it so I'll just leave it be.

To each their own.
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Panos
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12/20/2008  1:02 AM
What a **** game to have to sit thru. I must be an f'in jinx.
tkf
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12/20/2008  2:12 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

. We're trying to build a foundation of chemistry, accountability, and camaraderie the next two years.


With what players--most of them we be gone--


but briggs, it is the culture, the change in culture that is important... Chandler, gallanari, and maybe nate and lee , or one if not both will be here.. These are the guys who will help maintain that culture, but it has to start now...

guys will come to NY and know things are just not business as usual as they were before... No check collecting, and half assed play. Now guys will know that you are held accountable, we play a certain way and we expect to win..

The fact that you keep lamenting over losing zach, shows me you enjoyed the isiah years, and hat winning 35 games and hoping by chance that difference maker lands in your lap for the MLE, is what you are aiming for....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Knicksfan
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12/20/2008  2:14 AM
This team drives me nuts! One day, they are giving the Lakers the battle of their lives and almost pull out a win against a heavy contender. Then, with some days to rest and prepare, they come up with such a stinker against a mediocre team. A team that had kicked their ***es the last couple of days. A win would've sent a statement about the team really committed to make the playoffs and compete. A lose would've told everyone they are just the same sorry team waiting for their 2010 dream to come true.

Guess what? This game and this season just looks like 2006-2007 stats and record-wise. That year everybody was having nice expectations for us, since entering the season Isiah was the coach, his relationship with Marbury was good, Eddy Curry was turning his career with us aroung and we had nice young players to root for. We had games just like the ones we've had, where we compete against the contenders tough and then, when you start taking the team seriously, they come with many stinkers and in the end its no playoffs, low first round pick and lots of unhappy fans.

And Im not talking about the future here. As you, Im extremely happy we got cap flexibility and could rebuild in the next seasons. Im all for that. But this team is such a tease that when you see them compete like they did you start believing this team can do a lil bit of noise and make the playoffs. But as seasons ago, its just a freaking tease.

Im not saying they will or will not make the playoffs. Right now anything can happen with them because they are an undermanned, mediocre, inconsistent team. But considering we are in rebuilding, this kind of games that get us deeper under .500 make you wish they could just get the highest pick in the draft and move to the next season.

There are really no moral victories with this team. Its positive to have many of this youngsters playing heavy minutes. Its positive we have hope for the future. But the present keeps being a mediocre and inconsistent team that will wow you on some nights, still lose, but wow you so much that you buy the playoff dreams only to have games like this one.

Bad match-ups. Al being late. Bucks aren't that bad. They have our number. Whatever the excuse, its always the same. This was a big game for many of us that were starting to believe in them this year. They let us down big. I'll only believe again when I see them win and get above .500. They could come close to a win against the Celtics but if in the end they lose, it won't matter zip.

If they really want to make the playoffs, there are no moral victories. So far its just old fashioned losses.



Knicks_Fan
GKFv2
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12/20/2008  7:36 AM
Posted by Elite:

Q. Richardson FG 0-7

"I was just off," he said
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
BRIGGS
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12/20/2008  9:27 AM
Posted by GKFv2:

Briggs, check yourself bro. You're always living in a fantasy land pretending to think everything you say is right and that's how the Earth turns. No, it's not. You're wrong. It doesn't take 10 years to find a rebounding cross of Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis. It surely does not. What was the rush to trade him? What rush? He took all summer and found nothing. The Clippers were the only team that wanted Zach and terrible contract. Look how great the Clippers have been doing since they added superstar Zach on that roster. The empty stat man is still doing his thing I see. Same thing with Crawford. So keep living in fantasy land Briggs. That's all you do anyway. That or proposing trades for your prized possessions like Anthony Randolph or telling us how amazing Andrew Bynum is.

Unless the Knicks have Lebron on speed dial--it will be VERY hard to find a player better than Zach. Zach was here during IT for one year which I personally discount--how was he playing for us this year? How is he playing for the Clippers? Does anyone really think that Chris Bosh is even better than Randolph? No Right now Zach Randolph is playing better than ANY PF in the NBA and were not talking 2 game sample--the Clippers who are playing without a bench are one dumb Eric Gordon mistake of winning 6 in a row. We were 6-3 and shouldve been 7-3 if the management cared to fill the roster out so we didnt have dead tired players. Zach wasnt here for 8 years and it will be hard to replace him. Also I keep hearing about Gapopinari--we dont even know if Gallinari is NBA material off the bench! People talk about him as if it is a foregone conclusion he is a star.
RIP Crushalot😞
loweyecue
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12/20/2008  9:42 AM
Posted by Elite:
Posted by kam77:

Duhon is playing like he is half asleep. No tempo in our offense.

agreed its very strange he is walking the ball up the court looking high or depressed

Its all the Steve Nash talk that's killing him. Guy needs fan support.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
4949
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12/20/2008  9:47 AM
I just want to add an observation that I think for the first time, D'Antoni went beyond his usual seven, eight player rotation and put in ten guys. I think that threw the team off last night. D'Antoni needs to stick with his eight guys and not start second guessing himself. If not for the very close losses to chicago and L.A., we'd be 13-13 right now.

Point is, Knicks played better when they had to. You start adding guys like Jerome and Roberson to the mix, then you get back to lazy type of play. Jerome simply will never work in this system.

AND Q? HE HAS GOT TO GO! This guy, when he goes on a O for nothing game, we suffer (1 for 13). We need consistent players.
I'll never trust this' team again.
loweyecue
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12/20/2008  10:00 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by GKFv2:

Briggs, check yourself bro. You're always living in a fantasy land pretending to think everything you say is right and that's how the Earth turns. No, it's not. You're wrong. It doesn't take 10 years to find a rebounding cross of Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis. It surely does not. What was the rush to trade him? What rush? He took all summer and found nothing. The Clippers were the only team that wanted Zach and terrible contract. Look how great the Clippers have been doing since they added superstar Zach on that roster. The empty stat man is still doing his thing I see. Same thing with Crawford. So keep living in fantasy land Briggs. That's all you do anyway. That or proposing trades for your prized possessions like Anthony Randolph or telling us how amazing Andrew Bynum is.

Unless the Knicks have Lebron on speed dial--it will be VERY hard to find a player better than Zach. Zach was here during IT for one year which I personally discount--how was he playing for us this year? How is he playing for the Clippers? Does anyone really think that Chris Bosh is even better than Randolph? No Right now Zach Randolph is playing better than ANY PF in the NBA and were not talking 2 game sample--the Clippers who are playing without a bench are one dumb Eric Gordon mistake of winning 6 in a row. We were 6-3 and shouldve been 7-3 if the management cared to fill the roster out so we didnt have dead tired players. Zach wasnt here for 8 years and it will be hard to replace him. Also I keep hearing about Gapopinari--we dont even know if Gallinari is NBA material off the bench! People talk about him as if it is a foregone conclusion he is a star.

What's with the man-crush on Zach? Now you keep talking about 5-12 like that really means something and you are willing to "discount?" 23-59 or whatever the heck it was last season???? That was with your rockstar in the line-up? So the rock star gets the discount just because Briggs sez so? Are you really saying Zach is better then D Wade, Bosh and Amare? Because if you are you need to pass the bong, dude.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Knicksfan
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12/20/2008  10:12 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by GKFv2:

Briggs, check yourself bro. You're always living in a fantasy land pretending to think everything you say is right and that's how the Earth turns. No, it's not. You're wrong. It doesn't take 10 years to find a rebounding cross of Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis. It surely does not. What was the rush to trade him? What rush? He took all summer and found nothing. The Clippers were the only team that wanted Zach and terrible contract. Look how great the Clippers have been doing since they added superstar Zach on that roster. The empty stat man is still doing his thing I see. Same thing with Crawford. So keep living in fantasy land Briggs. That's all you do anyway. That or proposing trades for your prized possessions like Anthony Randolph or telling us how amazing Andrew Bynum is.

Unless the Knicks have Lebron on speed dial--it will be VERY hard to find a player better than Zach. Zach was here during IT for one year which I personally discount--how was he playing for us this year? How is he playing for the Clippers? Does anyone really think that Chris Bosh is even better than Randolph? No Right now Zach Randolph is playing better than ANY PF in the NBA and were not talking 2 game sample--the Clippers who are playing without a bench are one dumb Eric Gordon mistake of winning 6 in a row. We were 6-3 and shouldve been 7-3 if the management cared to fill the roster out so we didnt have dead tired players. Zach wasnt here for 8 years and it will be hard to replace him. Also I keep hearing about Gapopinari--we dont even know if Gallinari is NBA material off the bench! People talk about him as if it is a foregone conclusion he is a star.

Are you serious? You are becoming a Berman but for Zach Randolph. Zach better than Bosh and than any other PF in the league?

What color is this?



You see blue, right? Always blue.



Knicks_Fan
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12/20/2008  10:21 AM
Posted by 4949:

I just want to add an observation that I think for the first time, D'Antoni went beyond his usual seven, eight player rotation and put in ten guys. I think that threw the team off last night. D'Antoni needs to stick with his eight guys and not start second guessing himself. If not for the very close losses to chicago and L.A., we'd be 13-13 right now.

Point is, Knicks played better when they had to. You start adding guys like Jerome and Roberson to the mix, then you get back to lazy type of play. Jerome simply will never work in this system.

AND Q? HE HAS GOT TO GO! This guy, when he goes on a O for nothing game, we suffer (1 for 13). We need consistent players.

You think he played them because he wanted to and because he has added them to his rotation? You think the fact that Al was late and they were getting blown out didn't have more to do that a sudden change of heart to include those guys he still doesn't like?

This team could be 13-13, 16-10, 17-9, try any combination that makes you feel better. Some even like to keep bringing the possible 7-3 start in their analysis. Fact is, we are 11-15, losers of 3 straight, 5-12 after the trade and having more moral victories than anything relevant for a team that gets their mouths full of "we are good, we will make the playoffs."

I've seen this before. The ending back then was 33-49.



Knicks_Fan
JrZyHuStLa
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12/20/2008  10:22 AM
I must admit, the LA Times is clearly a critically acclaimed source. The Knicks are a gimmick team.

[Edited by - jrzyhustla on 12-20-2008 10:23 AM]
BRIGGS
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12/20/2008  10:54 AM
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by GKFv2:

Briggs, check yourself bro. You're always living in a fantasy land pretending to think everything you say is right and that's how the Earth turns. No, it's not. You're wrong. It doesn't take 10 years to find a rebounding cross of Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis. It surely does not. What was the rush to trade him? What rush? He took all summer and found nothing. The Clippers were the only team that wanted Zach and terrible contract. Look how great the Clippers have been doing since they added superstar Zach on that roster. The empty stat man is still doing his thing I see. Same thing with Crawford. So keep living in fantasy land Briggs. That's all you do anyway. That or proposing trades for your prized possessions like Anthony Randolph or telling us how amazing Andrew Bynum is.

Unless the Knicks have Lebron on speed dial--it will be VERY hard to find a player better than Zach. Zach was here during IT for one year which I personally discount--how was he playing for us this year? How is he playing for the Clippers? Does anyone really think that Chris Bosh is even better than Randolph? No Right now Zach Randolph is playing better than ANY PF in the NBA and were not talking 2 game sample--the Clippers who are playing without a bench are one dumb Eric Gordon mistake of winning 6 in a row. We were 6-3 and shouldve been 7-3 if the management cared to fill the roster out so we didnt have dead tired players. Zach wasnt here for 8 years and it will be hard to replace him. Also I keep hearing about Gapopinari--we dont even know if Gallinari is NBA material off the bench! People talk about him as if it is a foregone conclusion he is a star.

What's with the man-crush on Zach? Now you keep talking about 5-12 like that really means something and you are willing to "discount?" 23-59 or whatever the heck it was last season???? That was with your rockstar in the line-up? So the rock star gets the discount just because Briggs sez so? Are you really saying Zach is better then D Wade, Bosh and Amare? Because if you are you need to pass the bong, dude.

Chris Bosh is NOT better than Randolph. Right now Randolph is playing like a top 3 PF in the league if we consider Howard and Duncan C's. Chris Bosh is not better than Randolph--they are players that produce similar production. So why did we trade Randolph?


In the nBA a lot of time it's putting the right group of players together to get the best out of their talent. They paired Zach with Camby and the synergy has been incredible. Think about this--the first guy off of the cLippers bench is Mardy Collins--as in they dont have one. If they trade Chris Kaman into a 2-3 man bench and Camby/David stay healthy--not only will the Clippers get back into it--there is not one team in the west with superior talent. They have to flip Kaman for to do this but Kaman should bring back what they need.

I think you try to win and then figure it out afterwords. The second we were FLEECED for Zach--we gave up the season and while we have some cap space I dont like our positioning with all of our guys expiring

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 12-20-2008 11:08 AM]
RIP Crushalot😞
Knicksfan
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12/20/2008  11:17 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by GKFv2:

Briggs, check yourself bro. You're always living in a fantasy land pretending to think everything you say is right and that's how the Earth turns. No, it's not. You're wrong. It doesn't take 10 years to find a rebounding cross of Antoine Walker and Ricky Davis. It surely does not. What was the rush to trade him? What rush? He took all summer and found nothing. The Clippers were the only team that wanted Zach and terrible contract. Look how great the Clippers have been doing since they added superstar Zach on that roster. The empty stat man is still doing his thing I see. Same thing with Crawford. So keep living in fantasy land Briggs. That's all you do anyway. That or proposing trades for your prized possessions like Anthony Randolph or telling us how amazing Andrew Bynum is.

Unless the Knicks have Lebron on speed dial--it will be VERY hard to find a player better than Zach. Zach was here during IT for one year which I personally discount--how was he playing for us this year? How is he playing for the Clippers? Does anyone really think that Chris Bosh is even better than Randolph? No Right now Zach Randolph is playing better than ANY PF in the NBA and were not talking 2 game sample--the Clippers who are playing without a bench are one dumb Eric Gordon mistake of winning 6 in a row. We were 6-3 and shouldve been 7-3 if the management cared to fill the roster out so we didnt have dead tired players. Zach wasnt here for 8 years and it will be hard to replace him. Also I keep hearing about Gapopinari--we dont even know if Gallinari is NBA material off the bench! People talk about him as if it is a foregone conclusion he is a star.

What's with the man-crush on Zach? Now you keep talking about 5-12 like that really means something and you are willing to "discount?" 23-59 or whatever the heck it was last season???? That was with your rockstar in the line-up? So the rock star gets the discount just because Briggs sez so? Are you really saying Zach is better then D Wade, Bosh and Amare? Because if you are you need to pass the bong, dude.

Chris Bosh is NOT better than Randolph. Right now Randolph is playing like a top 3 PF in the league if we consider Howard and Duncan C's. Chris Bosh is not better than Randolph--they are players that produce similar production. So why did we trade Randolph?


In the nBA a lot of time it's putting the right group of players together to get the best out of their talent. They paired Zach with Camby and the synergy has been incredible. Think about this--the first guy off of the cLippers bench is Mardy Collins--as in they dont have one. If they trade Chris Kaman into a 2-3 man bench and Camby/David stay healthy--not only will the Clippers get back into it--there is not one team in the west with superior talent. They have to flip Kaman for to do this but Kaman should bring back what they need.

I think you try to win and then figure it out afterwords. The second we were FLEECED for Zach--we gave up the season and while we have some cap space I dont like our positioning with all of our guys expiring

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 12-20-2008 11:08 AM]

Sorry but should people take this post seriously?

Your indecision in terms of how you believe an NBA team should be formed, from "blowing it up since no one's worth a penny" to the "you should've never traded him, he is the best in the universe" once the guy is in another team reminds me of a music video where they say something like "you change your mind like a girl changes clothes".


Knicks_Fan
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Game Thread: The Milwalkee game commeth
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