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OT: Taking down Obama with the race card
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BigSm00th
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3/20/2008  6:52 PM
obama was a city organizer in chicago, a state senator in illinois, and then a US senator. 4949, are you being sarcastic? thats the whole point, obama's experience is questioned (hence your support of hillary right?
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4949
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3/20/2008  7:03 PM
Minus the word sarcasim, at least you gave us something about the man. Now was that so bad? I don't think it's enough, but why bash him for it?

[Edited by - 4949 on 03-20-2008 7:04 PM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
playa2
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3/20/2008  7:25 PM
Posted by misterearl:

In so many ways, Obama's speech was remarkable: ambitious, lofty, gritty, honest and unnerving. In tone and substance, and in the challenge he laid down to the country about the need to somehow move beyond the racial stalemate, it was the kind of speech Americans should expect of a presidential candidate or a president.

- The Washington Post

He spoke like he was talking to adults , not some watered down lame talk the bushy and his boys have treated the american public to.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
loweyecue
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3/20/2008  8:20 PM
This is such a strange thread, then again this is a very sensitive issue. It is interesting how some people are making political points while others are making cultural points, yet others are not making any points at all.

Is racism a political issue? A social issue? Is it even the "real" issue here? What we are seeing is a classic smear campaign by those who excel at such mainly the propaganda machinry of te republican party. I mean they want Obama to be held accountable for words and actions of someone else.

It is both sad and unfortunate that a huge proportion of these so called "adults" that Obama is supposed to be talking to fall for this type of scandals and do not have the intellectual capacity to see through this vulgar BS. I am not trying to be condescending (I realize the above may sound that way) but why is it that these so called "journalists" cannot help themselves making issues out of utter nonsense like this? Its because "we the people" buy into it, right?

There is an old saying in politics, people always deserve those that they elect. The fact that the "adults" in this country elected Bush, not once but twice is evidence enough of just how bad the situation is. The question then, is not whether Obama deserves to be president but rather whether we deserve a president who is smart, sophisticated, articulate and ambitious. -- But who cares about that when we have issues like racism to keep us divided? .
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
4949
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3/20/2008  8:23 PM
It's like this everywhere dude. Let's not knock ourselves out over it.
I'll never trust this' team again.
misterearl
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3/20/2008  9:03 PM
Posted by 4949:

It's like this everywhere dude. Let's not knock ourselves out over it.

Translation: The United States is no better than any other dictatorship. Sit back and regurgitate what Fox News tells you is truth rather than read and think for yourself. Let's not waste time talking about serious issues. It's too much work.

I have a hankering for a tv dinner instead of organic produce. Yum.

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misterearl
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3/20/2008  9:07 PM
"Meanwhile, back in the States...."

Martin Luther King Jr's phone was tapped by J Edgar Hoover

King was considered a broderline criminal by federal (cough) authorities

Filed at 8:45 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A spokesman for the State Department says two contract employees have been fired and a third disciplined for inappropriately looking at the passport file of Democratic Sen. Barack Obama's passport file.

Spokesman Sean McCormack Thursday night confirmed instances of what he called ''imprudent curiosity'' by the State Department employees.

McCormack said the department itself detected the breaches, which occurred separately on Jan. 9, Feb. 21 and March 14.

A spokesman for Obama's presidential campaign called for a complete investigation. The spokesman, Bill Burton, also demanded to know who looked at the file and why, and why the State Department did not reveal details of the security breach until now.
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TheSage
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3/20/2008  9:10 PM
Most of what is being is being said over and over. While the "race card" has become an emotional issue as well as a factual issue the real issue is what has this man done? What is his record of accomplishment beyond the words he speaks so eloquently? Little or none-would anyone really want a bright,well intended, brilliant orating freshman to run the university? he is promising what he hopes to deliver but how will he do it?

We had a President who inspired the people when he spoke (in a much different way than Obama), he turned out to be one of the worst if not the worst President in American history-Jimmy Carter.

[Edited by - TheSage on 03-20-2008 9:11 PM]
Killa4luv
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3/20/2008  9:26 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
I don't think it's appropriate for a Harvard educated executive who resides in a million dollar residence who is in line to become the first lady to say what she said. She should be proud to be an American from the day she was born into the best country in the world. She should understand the sacrifice of MILLIONS of Americans white black etc.. that gave HER the OPPORTUNITY she had. I'm sick of hearing crp like this--if you didnt like the country--go live in Canada.

And herein lies the HUGE GAPING chasm between how many whites and black view this country. You do not know what her experiences were, nor do you know even the average or typical black experience in this country. I think it is beyond presumptuous to say that the moment you were born you should love and be proud of something. If you came from a group of people who were historically mistreated, and who continued to not recieve justice, adequate services etc in your country, who, even as one of the brightest people in your class in your elite college were ostracized, made a spectacle of, etc, i think you'd understand her position better. By the way, she said the first time she was 'really' proud, not the first time she was proud, there is a rather sizeable difference in meaning between the 2.

My whole point is this, you are speaking on something you do not understand and are not trying to understand. The arguments you are making now, are the same arguments white people made at a time when the government was attacking black people with dogs and fire trucks. Those arguments dont mean to me what they mean to you. People fighting abroad, are generally not fighting to protect freedoms, they are fighting so that the US ruling class can control another country's natural resources, labor force, economy, etc. and if you tell yourself anything else your lying to yourself. Vietnam, Iraq? These were wars for our freedom? Give me a break.

If you caught the kind of hell my father caught growing up in the Jim Crow south, and who is a vietnam vet, btw, I think you'd be singing a different song.
You have to consider people's perspectives and life experiences. Having it hard, in terms of poverty is one thing, having that and discrimination on numerous levels and the daily attack on your psyche is something that you dont ever consider, but you could understand it if you tried to.
misterearl
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3/20/2008  9:38 PM
TheSage - intelligence is not a curse. The ability to organize words on complex issues reflects an ability to think through solutions which most people avoid or stumble through "business as usual". The Obama campaign itself has been efficient and effective. Last year at this time, where was Barack Obama in the nation's consciousness?

He has forced people to think past traditional bias and look in their personal mirrors. Some hate what they see. Others are willing to have the conversation. Remember, it is only a mirror.

Imagine where Barack could be a year from now.
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nykshaknbake
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3/20/2008  9:39 PM
wow.
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by BRIGGS:
I don't think it's appropriate for a Harvard educated executive who resides in a million dollar residence who is in line to become the first lady to say what she said. She should be proud to be an American from the day she was born into the best country in the world. She should understand the sacrifice of MILLIONS of Americans white black etc.. that gave HER the OPPORTUNITY she had. I'm sick of hearing crp like this--if you didnt like the country--go live in Canada.

And herein lies the HUGE GAPING chasm between how many whites and black view this country. You do not know what her experiences were, nor do you know even the average or typical black experience in this country. I think it is beyond presumptuous to say that the moment you were born you should love and be proud of something. If you came from a group of people who were historically mistreated, and who continued to not recieve justice, adequate services etc in your country, who, even as one of the brightest people in your class in your elite college were ostracized, made a spectacle of, etc, i think you'd understand her position better. By the way, she said the first time she was 'really' proud, not the first time she was proud, there is a rather sizeable difference in meaning between the 2.

My whole point is this, you are speaking on something you do not understand and are not trying to understand. The arguments you are making now, are the same arguments white people made at a time when the government was attacking black people with dogs and fire trucks. Those arguments dont mean to me what they mean to you. People fighting abroad, are generally not fighting to protect freedoms, they are fighting so that the US ruling class can control another country's natural resources, labor force, economy, etc. and if you tell yourself anything else your lying to yourself. Vietnam, Iraq? These were wars for our freedom? Give me a break.

If you caught the kind of hell my father caught growing up in the Jim Crow south, and who is a vietnam vet, btw, I think you'd be singing a different song.
You have to consider people's perspectives and life experiences. Having it hard, in terms of poverty is one thing, having that and discrimination on numerous levels and the daily attack on your psyche is something that you dont ever consider, but you could understand it if you tried to.

BRIGGS
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3/20/2008  9:49 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by BRIGGS:
I don't think it's appropriate for a Harvard educated executive who resides in a million dollar residence who is in line to become the first lady to say what she said. She should be proud to be an American from the day she was born into the best country in the world. She should understand the sacrifice of MILLIONS of Americans white black etc.. that gave HER the OPPORTUNITY she had. I'm sick of hearing crp like this--if you didnt like the country--go live in Canada.

And herein lies the HUGE GAPING chasm between how many whites and black view this country. You do not know what her experiences were, nor do you know even the average or typical black experience in this country. I think it is beyond presumptuous to say that the moment you were born you should love and be proud of something. If you came from a group of people who were historically mistreated, and who continued to not recieve justice, adequate services etc in your country, who, even as one of the brightest people in your class in your elite college were ostracized, made a spectacle of, etc, i think you'd understand her position better. By the way, she said the first time she was 'really' proud, not the first time she was proud, there is a rather sizeable difference in meaning between the 2.

My whole point is this, you are speaking on something you do not understand and are not trying to understand. The arguments you are making now, are the same arguments white people made at a time when the government was attacking black people with dogs and fire trucks. Those arguments dont mean to me what they mean to you. People fighting abroad, are generally not fighting to protect freedoms, they are fighting so that the US ruling class can control another country's natural resources, labor force, economy, etc. and if you tell yourself anything else your lying to yourself. Vietnam, Iraq? These were wars for our freedom? Give me a break.

If you caught the kind of hell my father caught growing up in the Jim Crow south, and who is a vietnam vet, btw, I think you'd be singing a different song.
You have to consider people's perspectives and life experiences. Having it hard, in terms of poverty is one thing, having that and discrimination on numerous levels and the daily attack on your psyche is something that you dont ever consider, but you could understand it if you tried to.

Michelle Obama had the opportunity to get a great education that included the top college in the United States at Harvard---she is an executive who has earned a 6 figure salary for some time and lives in a million dollar + residence and is poised to become the first lady of the United States. Hundreds and thousands of men and women have died in the history of the USA so that any man or woman of any creed race or color can have the same success that Michelle has had. I have to think that she must be proud of the accomplishments of the United States--that she should be pruod to live in a free country and express her views without fear of government intervention or penalty. I'm sorry sir--you are wrong--Michelle should be darn proud to be an American--and if she wasn't--she should've taken the train or plane to a country she felt was more appealing.
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TheSage
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3/20/2008  9:50 PM
Posted by misterearl:

TheSage - intelligence is not a curse. The ability to organize words on complex issues reflects an ability to think through solutions which most people avoid or stumble through "business as usual". The Obama campaign itself has been efficient and effective. Last year at this time, where was Barack Obama in the nation's consciousness?

He has forced people to think past traditional bias and look in their personal mirrors. Some hate what they see. Others are willing to have the conversation. Remember, it is only a mirror.

Imagine where Barack could be a year from now.


Obama 4 years ago-at the democratic national convention was being touted by his supporters as a Presidential candidate-the ability to speak and speak well does not make a capable President-it makes a great candidate. Of course he has some exceptional qualities but name the significant legislation he has sponsored. he talks a good game but hasn't exhibited substance. This isn't a knock on his ability but a realistic vie of his inexperience. His backers liken him to John Kennedy but Kennedy was raised to be President aster his brother's death, Kennedy was a congressmen and two term Senator he had a record to run on. Obama has none.



[Edited by - TheSage on 03-20-2008 9:51 PM]
misterearl
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3/20/2008  9:53 PM
Briggs - give it a rest. Nowhere did Michele Obama say she was no proud to be in the great country. With that said, all decendants of former slaves, whose backs built this country, should have been given free lifetime college scholarships to places like harvard.

The wording of Mr. (Bill) Clinton’s thank-you note to Mr. (Jeremiah) Wright, dated Oct. 28, 1998:

Dear Pastor Wright:

Thank you so much for your kind message.
I am touched by your prayers and by the many expressions of encouragement and support I have received from friends across our country.

You have my best wishes.

Sincerely,
Bill Clinton
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misterearl
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3/20/2008  9:55 PM
The photo

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/photograph-of-bill-clinton-and-rev-wright-surfaces/
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misterearl
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3/20/2008  10:02 PM
A great illustration to what killa4 has been writing:

Much of the time, blacks have a pretty good sense of what whites think, but whites are oblivious to common black perspectives.

What’s happening, I think, is that the Obama campaign has led many white Americans to listen in for the first time to some of the black conversation — and they are thunderstruck.

All of this demonstrates that a national dialogue on race is painful, awkward and essential. And that dialogue needs to focus not on clips from old sermons by Mr. Wright but on far more urgent challenges — for example, that about half of black males do not graduate from high school with their class.

Then maybe we can achieve our goal of getting, finally, to the point where there is “not a black America and not a white America... . There’s the United States of America.”

- By Nicholas D. Kristoff NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/opinion/20kristof.html?em&ex=1206158400&en=cd02deeeb508e822&ei=5087%0A
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misterearl
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3/20/2008  10:07 PM
Welcome to The United States

Q. How does a presidential candidate with Secret Service protection have his highly confidential passport file (protected by federal law) breached?

A.

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loweyecue
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3/20/2008  10:09 PM
Posted by 4949:

It's like this everywhere dude. Let's not knock ourselves out over it.

You are absolutely right, it is like this almost everywhere. That in my opinion is all the more reason to make a stand for something different.We want to be the world leaders then we need to tale some responsibility and do something that's different.

Don't ever be scared of swimming upstream, because even a dead fish can go with the flow.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Killa4luv
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3/20/2008  10:10 PM
BTW, this smear against Obama will be effective, because its fear mongering. White people are frightened by the Pastor's words. Pastor Wright is Malcolm X, Khalid Muhammed and Louis Farrakhan rolle dup into one, to many white people. TO me hes just another black preacher, using hyperbole, and his voice to make points he believes in, most of which i think are correct btw. I'll list what he said that I agree with.

9/11 was chickens coming home to roost. I think its vulgar to hear in that way, but his point is the role the US has played internationally led to those attacks, and i dont see how anyone can disagree with that. Bin Laden was trained with CIA funds 20 years before 9/11, that is a fact! They made him a monster and he came back and bit us on the a.ss. Thats factual. Factorial, if you will.
Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain't never been called a
is there something there thats factually incorrect? Dont know if its something i'd say in public with one of my parishoners running for president, but these are certainly true statements.

On Louis Farrakhan in general. White people and Jews dislike him. He has made anti-semetic remakrs in the past, and anti-white remarks in the past, but as he ages he has recanted and apologized, on TV with Barbara Walters. Its not enough for white people and I'm cool with that. BUt this idea that the black community, and a black Pastor should disassociate themselves from Farrakhan when he and the Nation of Islam do a great deal of postive work for our community, is nonsense. WHo are these white people to determine that we can afford to turn our backs on people who help us, because they have offended you? We all know our community can't afford to do that. Are these white people gonna set up programs for our brothers and sisters in prison, clean them up, keep them off drugs, feed them, house them, love them when theyve gone astray? Give me a break. I am no fan of the Nation of Islam, but i have deep respect and admiration for the WORK they do in our communities and I dont apologize for that because he has said some bad things that hurt white people's feelings. I think his racist and anti-semetic comments are wrong, and as I said he has apologized for them, but if hes doing good in the community, that trumps any bad statements he's made about anyone.

Same for Bill Cosby. He says alot of bull**** that is hurtful and untrue, but alot of white folks love it because they, like he, are really out of touch with whats going on in the black community. BUT he has put in alot of WORK for the community over the years, he has put up MILLIONS of dollars so I respect him and he can say what he wants because he has earned his right to do so by actually doing things that help.

The irony of it all is that white pastors, politicians, policemen, judges, teachers, doctors, etc, have been saying and doing racist stuff for as long as this country has been around, and white people have barely made a peep about it. Now as soon as a black man says something that hurts some white feelings, we must denounce him and run away and abandon him. Hypocritical isnt a strong enough word.
Killa4luv
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3/20/2008  10:19 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by BRIGGS:
I don't think it's appropriate for a Harvard educated executive who resides in a million dollar residence who is in line to become the first lady to say what she said. She should be proud to be an American from the day she was born into the best country in the world. She should understand the sacrifice of MILLIONS of Americans white black etc.. that gave HER the OPPORTUNITY she had. I'm sick of hearing crp like this--if you didnt like the country--go live in Canada.

And herein lies the HUGE GAPING chasm between how many whites and black view this country. You do not know what her experiences were, nor do you know even the average or typical black experience in this country. I think it is beyond presumptuous to say that the moment you were born you should love and be proud of something. If you came from a group of people who were historically mistreated, and who continued to not recieve justice, adequate services etc in your country, who, even as one of the brightest people in your class in your elite college were ostracized, made a spectacle of, etc, i think you'd understand her position better. By the way, she said the first time she was 'really' proud, not the first time she was proud, there is a rather sizeable difference in meaning between the 2.

My whole point is this, you are speaking on something you do not understand and are not trying to understand. The arguments you are making now, are the same arguments white people made at a time when the government was attacking black people with dogs and fire trucks. Those arguments dont mean to me what they mean to you. People fighting abroad, are generally not fighting to protect freedoms, they are fighting so that the US ruling class can control another country's natural resources, labor force, economy, etc. and if you tell yourself anything else your lying to yourself. Vietnam, Iraq? These were wars for our freedom? Give me a break.

If you caught the kind of hell my father caught growing up in the Jim Crow south, and who is a vietnam vet, btw, I think you'd be singing a different song.
You have to consider people's perspectives and life experiences. Having it hard, in terms of poverty is one thing, having that and discrimination on numerous levels and the daily attack on your psyche is something that you dont ever consider, but you could understand it if you tried to.

Michelle Obama had the opportunity to get a great education that included the top college in the United States at Harvard---she is an executive who has earned a 6 figure salary for some time and lives in a million dollar + residence and is poised to become the first lady of the United States. Hundreds and thousands of men and women have died in the history of the USA so that any man or woman of any creed race or color can have the same success that Michelle has had. I have to think that she must be proud of the accomplishments of the United States--that she should be pruod to live in a free country and express her views without fear of government intervention or penalty. I'm sorry sir--you are wrong--Michelle should be darn proud to be an American--and if she wasn't--she should've taken the train or plane to a country she felt was more appealing.

BRIGGS, you have to stop running this line about soldiers dying for our freedoms, because it is largely untrue. After WWII i defy you to name a time or place where soldiers died for us to be free? The people who died for Michelle to do what she did, were largely black, and sprinkle in some white and jewish people into that mix, and they largely died by the hands of some white person, working as an agent of the gov't on the local, state, or federal level. So cut the crap about soldiers dying so that a black woman could go to Princeton. My ancestors died fighting for her to achieve that against the will of the gov't and most of the citizens of the US. Again, this is factorial. Your patriotism appears to be devoid of any historical context. Your platitudes cannot rewrite history.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 03-20-2008 10:20 PM]
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