Posted by bitty41:

Lets say Francis was bought out and the Knicks pretty much remain a 33-35 win team at most. WHAT FREAKING SENSE WOULD IT MAKE FOR LEBRON TO LEAVE A TEAM THATS WINNING CLOSE TO 50 GAMES EVERY SEASON AND WILL PROBABLY WRITE HIM A BLANK CHECK? Just explain why a player thats supposedly concerened about winning would come to a terrible team while leaving his relatively successful team that is willing to pay him crazy amounts of money. Now of course I have no idea whats in Lebron's head but unless it comes to a situation where Cleve decides for whatever reason not to pay him I don't see Lebron hitting the open market.

The point is that we haven't put ourselves in a position to find out. So now we tell ourselves that there's no shot at LeBron, because the reality is... there isn't. But the reason there isn't is because of the cap. If we accumulated a few high draft picks, kept David Lee, a few guaranteed contracts and let the trash expire, we might have a very interesting and enticing team for someone like LeBron. LeBron isn't the only option to pick up via free agency. It's all about opportunity; no cap room = no opportunity.

I think we have to believe that the Knicks are an enticing enough location to play that a fair amount of free agents want to play here. If not, then it even further highlights how far down the wrong path we've gone and that we need to change course very quickly.

I think you mean PLUS the extensions of our young guys. If you give an extension to a player, that salary is added to (not subtracted from) the payroll.

Thats what I meant 58 million not including any extensions for the young guys. Of course when you sign a player to extension that salary is added.

And for an NBA player, Zach IS fat. Very few have more fat than he does.

Was Charles Barkley fat? Zach needs his fat to fight off guys down low otherwise with no athletic ability he's totally worthless being skyinny like a Camby. And undersized b/c he's listed at 6'8 which means 6'7

[Edited by - bitty41 on 02-05-2008 10:22 AM]

Don't you guys know they lady always wins the fight?

Well you can't say Sloan played players at their natural positions and say Lee would get many of his minutes at backup SF and C (along with PF). As for Malone at C: Plenty of teams move their PFs to C for portions of the games. That's the norm now for the good, 2 way PFs and if Sloan did it, he'd just be ahead of his time. Lee's good enough to play more than 20 mpg and I think he'd get killed by SFs (far more so than Malone would get beaten by backup Cs, who can't even score anyway).

Bonn, You're changing what I said, and I think you know it. Lee would get his minutes mainly backing up PF and SF. He might get a few minutes at center on the occasions that there were no real centers left due to foul trouble.

Sloan would not have played Malone at center. Malone played for 15 years and he barely ever played center. It has nothing to do with ahead of his time. Malone is not Tim Duncan who is a true hybrid PF/C. Sloan would not have slid Malone over to center to make minutes for Lee.

You're overrating Lee. On a really good team Lee gets less minutes, not more minutes. If we had a good center now, Lee would get less minutes. If we had a good SF now, Lee would get less minutes...

You think Lee would get killed by SF's, what do you think would happen if he had to guard the great centers they had out west during Malone's era?

Come on now: Malone isn't getting moved from PF at any point in his career to make minutes for Lee, and Lee would not get played at center over Ostertag or Eaton. Further, he's not getting Stockton's or Byron Houston's minutes.

You are overrating David Lee. He is a good role player who rebounds and put-backs very well. There is not much more outside of that.

By the way, Lee would not get that many minutes on the current Jazz front line: Boozer, Kirilenko, Okur, Millsap. Lee plays behind all of those guys.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 05-02-2008 2:51 PM]

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Malone was the greatest pf of all time before Tim Duncan. Karl Malone won 2 MVPs, and helped lead his team to NBA finals. Malone won first team all NBA 10-11 times.

Zach Randolph or Lee is not and never will be Karl Malone not even close. So no Lee wouldn't get any burn with Malone on the team because he is Karl Malone ans guess what, neither would Randolph. Utah would have probably trade both away for other needs.

Randolph is a talented scorer and rebounder, thats it. The problem is he thinks he is more than that. He could be a superstar role player but he would rather be a below average star. In todays NBA high charactyer guys like Lee who accept there role. Play there role to a high level even if they are less talented. Win more than guys who have more talent but can't accept a lesser role. I think Lee represents that while Randolph represents the opposite and im tired of lossing so I would choose Lee over Randolph. If Randolph was as good as Karl Malone then there would be no debate, but he isn't, he is closer to Abdul Rahim.

Randolph is not and never was part of this debate. Nor was Curry or any other Knick. It was about what Lee's time would be if he played with Malone. I had jokingly asked King if he would start Lee over Malone, and then Bonn said he would put Eaton or Osterfag on the bench and move Malone to center in order to play Lee at the PF.

oohah

Posted by oohah:

Well you can't say Sloan played players at their natural positions and say Lee would get many of his minutes at backup SF and C (along with PF). As for Malone at C: Plenty of teams move their PFs to C for portions of the games. That's the norm now for the good, 2 way PFs and if Sloan did it, he'd just be ahead of his time. Lee's good enough to play more than 20 mpg and I think he'd get killed by SFs (far more so than Malone would get beaten by backup Cs, who can't even score anyway).

Bonn, You're changing what I said, and I think you know it. Lee would get his minutes mainly backing up PF and SF. He might get a few minutes at center on the occasions that there were no real centers left due to foul trouble.

Sloan would not have played Malone at center. Malone played for 15 years and he barely ever played center. It has nothing to do with ahead of his time. Malone is not Tim Duncan who is a true hybrid PF/C. Sloan would not have slid Malone over to center to make minutes for Lee.

You're overrating Lee. On a really good team Lee gets less minutes, not more minutes. If we had a good center now, Lee would get less minutes. If we had a good SF now, Lee would get less minutes...

You think Lee would get killed by SF's, what do you think would happen if he had to guard the great centers they had out west during Malone's era?

Come on now: Malone isn't getting moved from PF at any point in his career to make minutes for Lee, and Lee would not get played at center over Ostertag or Eaton. Further, he's not getting Stockton's or Byron Houston's minutes.

You are overrating David Lee. He is a good role player who rebounds and put-backs very well. There is not much more outside of that.

By the way, Lee would not get that many minutes on the current Jazz front line: Boozer, Kirilenko, Okur, Millsap. Lee plays behind all of those guys.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 05-02-2008 2:51 PM]

Good post, but if I may, it's Bryon Russell.

I think most of these guys couldn't survive in the NBA of that time very rarely was there a uncontested rebound and certaintely no uncontested dunks.

bring back Felton Spencer

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by oohah:

Well you can't say Sloan played players at their natural positions and say Lee would get many of his minutes at backup SF and C (along with PF). As for Malone at C: Plenty of teams move their PFs to C for portions of the games. That's the norm now for the good, 2 way PFs and if Sloan did it, he'd just be ahead of his time. Lee's good enough to play more than 20 mpg and I think he'd get killed by SFs (far more so than Malone would get beaten by backup Cs, who can't even score anyway).

Bonn, You're changing what I said, and I think you know it.

[Edited by - oohah on 05-02-2008 2:51 PM]

What did I change?

Bonn

You changed it from Malone moves over to make room for Lee to Sloan would be ahead of his time because the PF/C is the vanguard of new paradigm amongst front-court thinking.

In any case Bonn, I like a good argument as much as anybody, but this one is loco. A guy like Lee simply does not make a player like Malone play out of position. I like Lee as much as anybody, but the overrating of Lee on this board is out of control. I expect a more reality-based view from you, my devil's-advocate playing friend.

oohah




[Edited by - oohah on 06-02-2008 02:57 AM]