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Now I like Isiah more. He is not always a snake, sometimes he is honest...
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Bippity10
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9/18/2007  1:18 PM
I understand and agree with Killa4luv's point of view(I think the message is harsh and accusatory unintentionally) but I don't understand what any of this has to do with Isiah and Dolan and Layden and LB and Chaney running the team poorly. And little understanding of what it has to do with Isiah or Marbs calling Anucha a biotch. It just seems like another smoke screen
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Killa4luv
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9/18/2007  1:20 PM
Posted by islesfan:

I never said, nor do I think, their lives are "worth more" to the American psyche. With OJ back int he news, they were just 2 of the more obvious choices in response to your "I will take white peoples cries of discrimination/reverse racism/deep disrespect serious when it puts you in prison, or has one of you dead on the floor" comment. I'm not naive to think that they are the only white people who would fit in either of those categories that you put forth, but they are 2 of the more famous.

I don't think Isiah and Anucha are brother and sister so I don't know what your point is. I would never call my sisters a "bitch" and any derogatory word is more hurtful when hurled by an outsider. What does that prove? Why are you differentiating? Inappropriate is inappropriate and wrong is wrong.
OJ getting off is not a case of reverse discrimination or racism, it is simply an extremely isolated and rare case of injustice where a black man got off for something he did. He didn't get off because he was black, he got off because he was rich and had the best attorney's money could buy. This type of thing isnt indicative of any kind of pattern of discrimination unless you are talking about rich people getting away with crimes, and that is not what America was responding to, it was because OJ had a white women and he was black; ostensibly black anyway. ;)

You know what my point is when you say "any derogatory word is more hurtful when hurled by an outsider" That IS my point. Why am I differentiating?!?! You just did the same thing?!?!

I agree inappropriate is inappropriate and wrong is wrong. But likewise if a woman said it, it wouldnt mean the same thing, or even a man saying it to another man as Bip just admitted to doing (and I'll admit to it as well).

It hurts a little more coming from an outsider, and then it hurts a little more coming from a person who belongs to a race that has a lot of history attached to the usage of those words. I dont think thats so hard to understand. I'm not saying its cool for a black guy to say it, if a black man calls my wife a bitch, its a fight, if a white man says it, its a fight too, but it hurts me deeper, Same fight though. Call me a hypocrite for that, but thats how I feel about it, and I'd safely say thats how most black people feel about it. This is trivial and has no impat on anyones life.
BasketballJones
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9/18/2007  1:25 PM
Bip, you are wrong again.

The fans loved Layden, supported every move he made without criticism, and went into a long period of mourning after he was fired.

On the other hand, the fans have hated Isiah and criticized his every move from day one. When he traded away Howard Eisley many fans wore black armbands. Don't even get me started about Clarence Weatherspoon.


https:// It's not so hard.
Killa4luv
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9/18/2007  1:29 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I understand and agree with Killa4luv's point of view(I think the message is harsh and accusatory unintentionally) but I don't understand what any of this has to do with Isiah and Dolan and Layden and LB and Chaney running the team poorly. And little understanding of what it has to do with Isiah or Marbs calling Anucha a biotch. It just seems like another smoke screen

Help me not be harsh and accusatory because I dont see it at all. I think it is blunt and too the point, but accurate. Thats how I view things. People say some **** about black people, even if it sounds crazy I evaluate it and see if its true. I know my people, and I know our flaws. I am rough on my own folks, because I know them, and dont accept the excuses, I'm black, from the ghetto, I know th obstacles, and I know the bull****.

Likewise, I cant accept this "get over it" nonsense from white people. America went from 'there is no problem' to 'get over it'. What about acknowledging that a problem exists? Thats my beef, and its obvious that the cats were talkin with on this site dont know what they are taling about. I"m trying to address that, but I'm not trying to be harsh or accusatory, I'm jsut trying to stay as close to the truth as possible. Help me out, what am I doing wrong?

What all of this has to do with the thread is that people were bending over backwards to make Isiah's comments racist and put them on the level of Don Imus. Thats nonsense and I'm not having it. I'm not defending Isiah, if he said it at all, it was wrong because he called her a B, as I said before, and as I was the 1st to say on this thread, but this wasn't racist at all.

that always gets us into a discussion about racism in this country and how race is percieved and lived out and it is always so informative and interesting for to see white peoples take on this.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 09-18-2007 1:33 PM]
BasketballJones
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9/18/2007  1:30 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Bippity10:

I understand and agree with Killa4luv's point of view(I think the message is harsh and accusatory unintentionally) but I don't understand what any of this has to do with Isiah and Dolan and Layden and LB and Chaney running the team poorly. And little understanding of what it has to do with Isiah or Marbs calling Anucha a biotch. It just seems like another smoke screen

Help me not be harsh and accusatory because I dont see it at all. I think it is blunt and too the point, but accurate. Thats how I view things. People say some **** about black people, even if it sounds crazy I evaluate it and see if its true. I know my people, and I know our flaws. I am rough on my own folks, because I know them, and dont accept the excuses, I'm black, from the ghetto, I know th obstacles, and I know the bull****.

Likewise, I cant accept this "get over it" nonsense from white people. America went from 'there is no problem' to 'get over it'. What about acknowledging that a problem exists? Thats my beef, and its obvious that the cats were talkin with on this site dont know what they are taling about. I"m trying to address that, but I'm not trying to be harsh or accusatory, I'm jsut trying to stay as close to the truth as possible. Help me out, what am I doing wrong?

You're trying to make them eat their spinach.
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djsunyc
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9/18/2007  2:03 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Bip, you are wrong again.

The fans loved Layden, supported every move he made without criticism, and went into a long period of mourning after he was fired.

On the other hand, the fans have hated Isiah and criticized his every move from day one. When he traded away Howard Eisley many fans wore black armbands. Don't even get me started about Clarence Weatherspoon.

i'm still wearing the black armband...
misterearl
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9/18/2007  2:35 PM
Seasame chicken spit-take

"BasketballJones - On the other hand, the fans have hated Isiah and criticized his every move from day one. When he traded away Howard Eisley many fans wore black armbands. Don't even get me started about Clarence Weatherspoon."

BJ - classic

killa4luv - I would submit that (three weeks ago) before the Jena6 case made national news that many (White) people would claim wonder and amazement over what all the fuss was about.

I would also go so far to forward the idea that some, a few message boarders included, probably think there is an over-reaction taking place this weekend. That is, if anyone cared to follow, or consider the parable of, the case.

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Solace
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9/18/2007  2:44 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

The reality is this:
White people are not being systematically discriminated against, period.
In a host of different ways other groups, people of color, women, gays, poor people are.

And yet, you feel this is undeniably fact, while many would say it's highly debatable (With the exception of gays; That's obvious). For every group you mentioned (including whites), you could argue either side.

Yet you continue to wonder why you come off as hostile. If you want one race to be judged fairly, stop judging another race unfairly.

[Edited by - Solace on Sep 18 2007 2:47 PM]
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misterearl
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9/18/2007  2:50 PM
Solace - say what?
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misterearl
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9/18/2007  2:54 PM
There is absolutely nothing flawed in killa4's assesment unless you consider the study of history and a quick analysis of current events since 1954 a flawed basis for opinion.

nothing

killa4 is not "judging" anything or any race unfairly. To be honest, killa4 is being quite polite about this difficult topic of race in America

you want raw honesty? you should hear what the brothas on the corner say about it

[Edited by - misterearl on 09-18-2007 2:56 PM]
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Allanfan20
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9/18/2007  3:02 PM
You want raw honesty? This race topic shouldn't be brought up anywhere close to as much as it is on this board. Yes, it's a major issue, yes, the black population has had it severely rough and whites shouldn't be telling them to get over it. Yes, the black population needs to be making their own strides too, as do the white population, so we can stop even talking about the race issue.

However, maybe it's time we start putting it to a rest or at least in the off topic forum, b/c it's really starting to get old, and how dare I say, it's hurting the quality of this great message board.

And for the matter, I just want to get back to basketball. No nonsense. I wanna see how the Knicks turn out. I do kind of want to see Isiah gone, and I DO want Dolan gone from this once proud franchise for good. But it's really time we start talking about bball.
“I couldn’t dunk it so I tried to, you know, just touched it.”- OG Anunoby
Bippity10
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9/18/2007  3:08 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

You want raw honesty? This race topic shouldn't be brought up anywhere close to as much as it is on this board. Yes, it's a major issue, yes, the black population has had it severely rough and whites shouldn't be telling them to get over it. Yes, the black population needs to be making their own strides too, as do the white population, so we can stop even talking about the race issue.

However, maybe it's time we start putting it to a rest or at least in the off topic forum, b/c it's really starting to get old, and how dare I say, it's hurting the quality of this great message board.

And for the matter, I just want to get back to basketball. No nonsense. I wanna see how the Knicks turn out. I do kind of want to see Isiah gone, and I DO want Dolan gone from this once proud franchise for good. But it's really time we start talking about bball.

I agree 100%. It's getting tiresome. Isiah could walk down and stab STephon Marbury in the face and somehow this board would turn it into a race issue.
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TrueBlue
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9/18/2007  3:10 PM
Bottomline Killa no one should ever call you out of your name period. I think what Isiah tried to potray, even if it was in honesty, was even more ridiculous coming from a Black(AA) perspective. One of the reasons the Black(AA) society hasn't progressed as well as it should is because many from this race feel it's ok to turn negative racial/gendered(Negro & Bitch) words and use them in a supposedly positive light, when in effect it's still negative. Negro=ignorant person Bitch=female dog. The word Negro was given to the Black(AA) people by the White race to make them feel less than they were. Why would anyone take such a word and try and turn it into a positive by saying "What's Up My N****". When on the other hand if something goes down in the hood "It's Time to Knock Off That N****". And then to take it a step further White(Caucasians) people have been saying it so commonly it's become an issue to Black(AA) people. Not only do Blacks(AA) not want a White(Caucasians) persons calling another Black(AA) the N word, they don't even want them saying it to another White person. Keep in mind if it's supposedly said in the right context the word is positive right? So why can't White(Caucasian) people say it if the word has turned positive? Then Blacks(AA) turn around and call Whites(Caucasians) who act Urban WIGG**. Pot Meet The F'N Kettle. We rarely do that with any other negative racial, stereotype, gendered words. Are you saying you would understand if White(Caucasians) people(primarily although not the rule) started going around and greeting each other saying "What's Up My Tailer *****" or if Mexicans(Latinos) walked around and started saying What's Up My Wet****"?

Isiah shouldn't have been speaking, looking at it from the Male perspective. He should have not said anything all because he offered it up and secondly even if he felt a certain way he should have been looking at it from a Black(AA) woman's perspective. If you call someone out of their name in a professional environment it's a definite wrong and I think it applies no matter where you are really.

[Edited by - TrueBlue on 09-18-2007 2:16 PM]
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Allanfan20
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9/18/2007  3:14 PM
On the first page of the Knicks main forum, there are 29 threads, including the stickies on the top. 7 of them are basketball related. 8 if you include the countdown. 3 of them are about the Knicks (4 if you include the countdown.) NONE of those threads are really being taken seriously and training camp is in two weeks. This is when the bball talk should be getting hot, trial or no trial.

Whether you're a hater, lover or on the fence, if you're a bball fan, you should be getting at least a little anxious and wanna talk some bball.

I call for now on, the second the race issue gets mentioned, it gets moved into the OT, as well as the war stuff and Vick and Pacman and maybe even the Yankees and Giants and Mets.

Time to start talking about the Knicks.
“I couldn’t dunk it so I tried to, you know, just touched it.”- OG Anunoby
Bippity10
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9/18/2007  3:16 PM
Person one: Oh my god Isiah just stabbed Marbs in the face for no reason

Person two: Why aren't you talking about Bill Bellichick or the Jena6

Person one: What?

Person two: Racist

Person 3, 4, 5 and 6: What?

Person 7, 8, 9 and 10: There's institutionalized racism in america

Person 1: I know, but what does that have to do with Isiah stabbing Marbs?

Person 2: You will never understand

Person 1: Black people need to get over it

Person 2: (Nine page post about racism, hypocracy and discrimination in america including articles, quotes and studies)

Person 1: I forget what we were talking about. Did someone get stabbed?

Person 2: Racist


I think this is pretty accurate
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TrueBlue
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9/18/2007  3:17 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Person one: Oh my god Isiah just stabbed Marbs in the face for no reason

Person two: Why aren't you talking about Bill Bellichick or the Jena6

Person one: What?

Person two: Racist

Person 3, 4, 5 and 6: What?

Person 7, 8, 9 and 10: There's institutionalized racism in america

Person 1: I know, but what does that have to do with Isiah stabbing Marbs?

Person 2: You will never understand

Person 1: Black people need to get over it

Person 2: (Nine page post about racism, hypocracy and discrimination in america including articles, quotes and studies)

Person 1: I forget what we were talking about. Did someone get stabbed?

Person 2: Racist


I think this is pretty accurate


LOL!
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TrueBlue
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9/18/2007  3:19 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

On the first page of the Knicks main forum, there are 29 threads, including the stickies on the top. 7 of them are basketball related. 8 if you include the countdown. 3 of them are about the Knicks (4 if you include the countdown.) NONE of those threads are really being taken seriously and training camp is in two weeks. This is when the bball talk should be getting hot, trial or no trial.

Whether you're a hater, lover or on the fence, if you're a bball fan, you should be getting at least a little anxious and wanna talk some bball.

I call for now on, the second the race issue gets mentioned, it gets moved into the OT, as well as the war stuff and Vick and Pacman and maybe even the Yankees and Giants and Mets.

Time to start talking about the Knicks.


Agreed!
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Solace
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9/18/2007  3:20 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

On the first page of the Knicks main forum, there are 29 threads, including the stickies on the top. 7 of them are basketball related. 8 if you include the countdown. 3 of them are about the Knicks (4 if you include the countdown.) NONE of those threads are really being taken seriously and training camp is in two weeks. This is when the bball talk should be getting hot, trial or no trial.

Whether you're a hater, lover or on the fence, if you're a bball fan, you should be getting at least a little anxious and wanna talk some bball.

I call for now on, the second the race issue gets mentioned, it gets moved into the OT, as well as the war stuff and Vick and Pacman and maybe even the Yankees and Giants and Mets.

Time to start talking about the Knicks.

My biggest peeve is that there aren't enough computer-related threads. If not for Silver and his Linux and Firefox usage, I would have lost faith in all of you! Seriously, though, I agree. I would like to not have to see these race-related threads anymore. Certainly I've taken the bait on multiple occasions; I apologize for that, Allan.

As for the Knicks, I've talked them to death. I find them boring. That's the main reason why I haven't posted lately.
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Allanfan20
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9/18/2007  3:25 PM
I don't even mind if it pops up once in a blue moon. I love reading about social issues now and then. It's fun for me, but that's just now and then. This is a basketball forum, not a race forum. If you wanna talk about race, then go to a race forum. I'm sure there's a million of them.
“I couldn’t dunk it so I tried to, you know, just touched it.”- OG Anunoby
playa2
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9/18/2007  3:42 PM
wow you guys are really making me LOL.


O.T doesn't get many takes, so if something is important we discuss it no matter what.

Certain issues will always and continue to divide our country, OJ, Jena 6 etc... White people Stop feeling guilty for something you personaly didn't do and black people make sure you are doing everything you can to kill the stereo type of ya people.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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