Posted by misterearl:

Bippity - perhaps team-building is not a one year exercise as some would like to believe

perhaps there was more collateral damage to the fabric of the Knicks roster than simply the players Layden acquired. There was a void in leadership.

Those that want to discount the performances of the Summer Knicks are missing the focal point of rebuilding entirely. Rebuilding a team psyche is as important as rebuidling the superficial stat column.

The Real GM types who want instant talent upgrades for dreck miss the point about setting a positive collective tone that can override the flawed personalities. Ever notice that whoever the vintage Celtics plugged in, from Bill Walton to Dennis Johnson, conformed to the franchise mantra?

My citing the Summer Knicks is less about statistics than it is about playing personality and professional demeanor on the court. People can bash the Summer Knicks all they want as that ignorant agenda is only based on throwing dirt balls.

What I saw in person was a young bunch of guys going about their business, from the moment they enetered a very informal gym until they left, in a professional manner. They didn't run a layup line, they ran footwork drills. There was no joking.

In don't see a problem with that.

And once again you make your post based on the assumption that I am disagreeing with you. I saw everything you see. I am excited about the young guys. I want them to achieve. They have an attitude that we have lacked for years. Nthing you say is foreign to me. But the conversation seems to have moved towards the comparitive success of Isiah and Layden. I contend that neither has shown us tangible results. Layden's results are complete and obvious. Isiah is incomplete. So far Isiah has shown us yearly promise. Yearly addition in terms of talent. But no results. In the end the results are what matters. Until then, all it is, is you and I talking about how great our team could be.

Isiah has been here 3 years. Eventually he has to show some progress in terms of on the floor. How many years are injuries, coaches, new players, new systems and fans going to be used as an excuse. At what date as a fan is it okay for me to ask for results????

Two years ago we were better than a 23 win team, yet won 23 games. Last year we were better than a 33 win team and yet still won 33 games. Based on sheer talent, I look at this roster and my expectations are as high as anyone on this board. Talentwise I do not see how this team is not a playoff team. At worst a .500 team. If we come in with another 33 win record what will the excuse be. When do the results have to match up with the talent? What year is it okay for me to ask for this? Year 5, 6, 7? When can Isiah be judged by wins? My expectations each year have not been realistic. AS a matter of fact guys like you and Nixluva usually predict more wins than me and call me a pessimist. So if Isiah's team's results can't even match my "pessimistic" prediction than why can't the GM be judged on those results. Or will it be like last year where the "lovers" predict astronomical results and call the "haters" pessimists for predicting more conservative results. And then make excuses and call the "haters" impatient when those conservative results aren't met.

It's so confusing to me.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 24-07-2007 12:31 PM]

Posted by misterearl:

Solace - that's right. You win.

Because it's all about winning in New York

Rebuild my butt.

Posted by nixluva:

The 1st year and a half was a waste, but since then Isiah has been remaking the team. We wanted LB to establish a base and allow the team to grow as the season moved along. That didn't happen and what's worse the team lost far too many games for the talent they had. But it wasn't really about the number of wins. We wanted to see order established.

Moving ahead to this past season, we had to start from scratch again. The important thing is that we could see the team making some improvement last year, this year should be another step up and hopefully that will continue the year after. Isn't that what we want to happen? So what's the problem?

I think despite the team not winning at the rate we may have wanted, the overall direction of the team is a good one. I think we would've been ahead of this current pace if the LB thing didn't happen. Last year the team was making progress. To deny that is to simply LIE cuz the evidence is there that the team was getting better progressively as the season went along. That is up until the injuries mounted. Now some of you don't want to acknowledge that and that's your right, but many of us can see that the team was getting better not worse.

Right. The first year we were still dealing with the fallout from Layden's decisions, so that doesn't count. Then we had to deal with the Larry Brown fiasco. That set us back about two years. So really, this is Isiah's first year. Cut the guy some slack already!

[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-24-2007 13:04]