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You Guys Do Realize Realistically We Need to Blow This Up?
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Bippity10
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7/27/2007  8:49 AM
You're a blatant lie. I was labelled a hater and a Net fan everytime I brought up the question what if they dont' work well together. You were one of the ringleaders. I just keep opening up that can of worms because I'm waiting for my official written apology. Whenever you are prepared to do that then the can of worms will be closed and locked. Until then I will continue to be bitter and continue to open that can of worms just to entertain myself . Another topic that's not forgotten is you calling people haters for predicting 35-38 wins when you were predicting 41-46. Only to call them impatient when they were upset with 33. None of this is missed.

As for trimming the fat. You have been posting with me for a couple years now. I have never said anything about getting rid of the young guys. As a matter of fact my decisions have nothing to do with age. It has to do with consolidating talent to get players that fit the roster. Any player at a redundant position can be considered fat. WE can not look at trimming the fat as simply getting rid of guys we don't like. That's part of it. Trimming the fat means getting rid of our supposed "depth" and trade it for guys that give us things we don't have(outside shooting, shot blocking etc).

A perfect example is the SG position. WE have Q, Nate, Jamal, Mardy and a rookie or two that can play the spot. WE can trade any of the above without skipping a beat. Moves like this should be made. It doesn't mean you hate the guy you are trading. It means you are consolidating talent for needs. We seem to fear this. Now I know Isiah understands this. The problem has been that for 3 years everytime he makes a move he brings on more fat. It's time for this to stop. Let's build a team instead of stockpiling assets.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 27-07-2007 09:00 AM]
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Bippity10
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7/27/2007  8:57 AM
The biggest problem with our team is this. When you look at the roster we don't know who our future team is.

Who will be here 5 years from now:
C-Eddie Curry-it seems this way, but if Curry and Zach can't gel, like Steph and Stevie the year before, one of the two will have to go
PF-See above, if Zach is gone is DLee your starter?
SF-Renaldo? Chandler? JJ? Which of the group has proven he will be a starter down the line
Sg-Jamal? Q? Nate? Mardy? Nichols? Any and all of the above. Any of these guys could be the starter for 5 years, any can be traded in an instant
PG-Mardy?

How do you know who to add to the team when you don't know who your future team is? This has been why our additions have been so erratic for the past 3 years(jj, jj2/balkman same year, Francis etc). This is what causes these moves. Eventually we have to commit to a core and stick to it. We can't continue to fall in and out of love with franchise players and starters every year. Commit to a core, build around it and start to get rid of these players that don't fit in anyway regardless of talent. Until we start doing that we will all be disappointed and making excuses yet again for why we underachieved.
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Bippity10
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7/27/2007  9:04 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:

All this "trim the fat talk". I will view this as an apology by all the people that called me a hater for using this exact term for the past 3 years. I see, now you guys are understanding what I was talking about. Makes sense now, huh. Apology accepted.

I honestly can't remember, but were people actually disagreeing with you on this? I would think that most of us were always in favor of someone on this roster getting moved off.

Also I'm not sure everyone means exactly the same thing when we say trim the fat. How exactly do you mean it?

Yes, the first time I brought it up I was told that we didn't have to trim the fat. Actually I was constantly told that all the fat we had, wasn't actually fat, it was depth. Depth that would help us withstand injuries, blah, blah, blah.

You're not gonna open up that can of worms again are you? Really I think that's been beaten to death.

You still didn't answer the question. WHO do you mean when you're talking about trimming the fat. It surely doesn't include the young guys who were left when we had all those injuries. We got rid of Francis who I'd include in the fat if that's what you mean.

Oh and let's get some things cleared up about me and you and the Francis and Steph thing. I don't like Francis and never did. I defended the idea that Francis, Steph, Jamal and Nate, should be able to run the plays that Isiah had in store for them. The reason is that his sets are very basic and don't require a lot of reading of the defense by the PG. This isn't a Kidd or Nash deal where they keep the ball in their hands and make all the important decisions with the ball. If you went back you'd see that most of the time the basic set starts with the PG passing to the post and making a cut or passing to the SF in the corner and making his cut. There's not a lot of rocket science involved in that basic play. When the ball goes inside, the PG makes his way back up top if he's not given the ball on his cut to the basket. If the Center is doubled and chooses he can make the pass back to the PG who then could refeed the post or swing the ball to the weakside where Francis would most often be and then you could have a 2 man game with Francis and Frye or Lee. That's the basic set that Isiah most often ran. This is what I was speaking to. Steph didn't have a problem with the 1st parts of this. It was after that when he got the ball back that he had his problems. But then he finally figured it out.

Francis it seems couldn't really get comfortable with any of it. If he got the ball and was open he didn't want to shoot it unless he dribbled. If he had a pick often he'd lose control of the ball on his initial move and that would totally mess up his head. He'd end up calling his own number and breaking the play. So I would say that you were half right. Francis didn't work, but I think Steph did and eventually so did Jamal. Nate was too eager to call his own number and never passed, so you could say that he didn't work either, tho i'll give him more of a pass than Francis.

Lastly as for STeve and Steph. Once again you miss the point. They couldn't work together. That was obvious. IN the preseason not one time did I say that they couldn't work. Just like I am not saying Curry and Zach CAN'T WORK. But I am asking the question what if? Where does that leave us, if once again the core that we are creating does not work well together. Are we prepared to adjust the core AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When does it end? Why did it start?
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misterearl
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7/27/2007  9:52 AM
A Simple Plan

>>The plan would be as follows:

Acquire as many high draft picks as possible.

Solace - what General Manager is giving up his own valuable draft picks for the likes of over-compensated dreck like Shandon Anderson or Clarence Weatherspoon?

You must begin your proposed rebuild with a reasonable value-for-value analysis and not this fantasy league one-sided I give nothing to get something mentality.

>>Plan to get under the cap in time for LeBron's stint in free agency.
Trade all expirings (McDyess, Kurt Thomas, Charlie Ward) for 2 year contracts and extra draft picks.

Acquiring 2 year contracts and "extra" draft picks for the likes of Travis Knight is not a plan when you must consider that you are negotiating with your competition.

What franchise was banging down the Knicks doors for Chollie Ward?

c'mon

Dream on

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-27-2007 09:53 AM]
once a knick always a knick
newyorknewyork
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7/27/2007  11:42 AM
Posted by misterearl:

A Simple Plan

>>The plan would be as follows:

Acquire as many high draft picks as possible.

Solace - what General Manager is giving up his own valuable draft picks for the likes of over-compensated dreck like Shandon Anderson or Clarence Weatherspoon?

You must begin your proposed rebuild with a reasonable value-for-value analysis and not this fantasy league one-sided I give nothing to get something mentality.

>>Plan to get under the cap in time for LeBron's stint in free agency.
Trade all expirings (McDyess, Kurt Thomas, Charlie Ward) for 2 year contracts and extra draft picks.

Acquiring 2 year contracts and "extra" draft picks for the likes of Travis Knight is not a plan when you must consider that you are negotiating with your competition.

What franchise was banging down the Knicks doors for Chollie Ward?

c'mon

Dream on

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-27-2007 09:53 AM]

We did have Mcdyess soon ending contract, Kurt Thomas soon ending contract, Ward's soon ending contract, Mutombo's soon ending contract, Lampe, rights to Milos, Sweetney, Williams. Our bad contracts were Houston, Eisley, Anderson & Weatherspoon. Eisley & Spoon would have ended in 06. Houston & Anderson ended after this season. Plus KVH.

So if we really really were focused on truley rebuilding and went all in. We could have pulled it off.

Combine some near expiring contracts like KT or Dice along with a young player like Lampe along with a bad contract like Anderson for an expiring, or a short contract with less talent and a protected pick. Then Maybe a another package of Dice or KT or Sweetney, Milos, & Eisley or for the same thing. Buy late rd draft picks for 3 mil. Be smart with the mid level signing.

We follow that path starting from 2002 where do you think we would be at right now? Even if we weren't a good team still. We still would have a hundred times more flexabiliy than we do now.

So it wasn't that it wasn't possible with our situation. The problem was that Dolan didn't want to take that route for fear losing money.



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Panos
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7/27/2007  12:06 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:

All this "trim the fat talk". I will view this as an apology by all the people that called me a hater for using this exact term for the past 3 years. I see, now you guys are understanding what I was talking about. Makes sense now, huh. Apology accepted.

I honestly can't remember, but were people actually disagreeing with you on this? I would think that most of us were always in favor of someone on this roster getting moved off.

Also I'm not sure everyone means exactly the same thing when we say trim the fat. How exactly do you mean it?

Yes, the first time I brought it up I was told that we didn't have to trim the fat. Actually I was constantly told that all the fat we had, wasn't actually fat, it was depth. Depth that would help us withstand injuries, blah, blah, blah.

You're not gonna open up that can of worms again are you? Really I think that's been beaten to death.

You still didn't answer the question. WHO do you mean when you're talking about trimming the fat. It surely doesn't include the young guys who were left when we had all those injuries. We got rid of Francis who I'd include in the fat if that's what you mean.

Oh and let's get some things cleared up about me and you and the Francis and Steph thing. I don't like Francis and never did. I defended the idea that Francis, Steph, Jamal and Nate, should be able to run the plays that Isiah had in store for them. The reason is that his sets are very basic and don't require a lot of reading of the defense by the PG. This isn't a Kidd or Nash deal where they keep the ball in their hands and make all the important decisions with the ball. If you went back you'd see that most of the time the basic set starts with the PG passing to the post and making a cut or passing to the SF in the corner and making his cut. There's not a lot of rocket science involved in that basic play. When the ball goes inside, the PG makes his way back up top if he's not given the ball on his cut to the basket. If the Center is doubled and chooses he can make the pass back to the PG who then could refeed the post or swing the ball to the weakside where Francis would most often be and then you could have a 2 man game with Francis and Frye or Lee. That's the basic set that Isiah most often ran. This is what I was speaking to. Steph didn't have a problem with the 1st parts of this. It was after that when he got the ball back that he had his problems. But then he finally figured it out.

Francis it seems couldn't really get comfortable with any of it. If he got the ball and was open he didn't want to shoot it unless he dribbled. If he had a pick often he'd lose control of the ball on his initial move and that would totally mess up his head. He'd end up calling his own number and breaking the play. So I would say that you were half right. Francis didn't work, but I think Steph did and eventually so did Jamal. Nate was too eager to call his own number and never passed, so you could say that he didn't work either, tho i'll give him more of a pass than Francis.

Lastly as for STeve and Steph. Once again you miss the point. They couldn't work together. That was obvious. IN the preseason not one time did I say that they couldn't work. Just like I am not saying Curry and Zach CAN'T WORK. But I am asking the question what if? Where does that leave us, if once again the core that we are creating does not work well together. Are we prepared to adjust the core AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When does it end? Why did it start?

Perhaps you didn't say it, but lots of people did say that it couldn't work.
And the response was comparisons with the Detriot backcourt, or Isiah's custom
tailored "Quick" offense, or basically just calling those critics "haters."
Well, guess what? It had nothing to do with hating. It was OBJECTIVITY.
THEY PLAYED THE SAME FREAKIN POSITION, THE SAME WAY!
Nixluva expects things to work just because he wishes them to, and then
gets upset with anyone who doesn't see it that way. AND like you say,
refuses to say what to do if it DOESN'T work. I've been trying to get him
to commit to a horizon where he will say enough is enough with Isiah, time to move on.
However, his clock somehow restarts every year for some reason or other.
I can only conclude that he's willing to ride with Isiah, no matter what he does.

Now, to be fair, it's not as 100% clear to me that this pairing of Curry and Z-Bo
won't work as it was for Franbury. At least Curry and Z-Bo don't play the same
position. However, personally, I would rather ship one of them out for a more
balanced player. Am I allow to say that, nixluva, without being called a hater?
JohnWallace44
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7/27/2007  12:37 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Wallace: I agree, and a lot of us realize this, and that is the frustration. The overly optimistic are ready to blow off these bad deals as if they are unimportant but all these bad moves have negative consequences on how we build our team. And until we start trimming the fat we will always have a ceiling, and that ceiling will not be a championship.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 26-07-2007 11:02 AM]


That's true. I guess if Dolan has the stomach for it, he should buy out a couple of guys and be done with it.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Solace
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7/27/2007  8:15 PM
Posted by misterearl:

A Simple Plan

>>The plan would be as follows:

Acquire as many high draft picks as possible.

Solace - what General Manager is giving up his own valuable draft picks for the likes of over-compensated dreck like Shandon Anderson or Clarence Weatherspoon?

You must begin your proposed rebuild with a reasonable value-for-value analysis and not this fantasy league one-sided I give nothing to get something mentality.

>>Plan to get under the cap in time for LeBron's stint in free agency.
Trade all expirings (McDyess, Kurt Thomas, Charlie Ward) for 2 year contracts and extra draft picks.

Acquiring 2 year contracts and "extra" draft picks for the likes of Travis Knight is not a plan when you must consider that you are negotiating with your competition.

What franchise was banging down the Knicks doors for Chollie Ward?

c'mon

Dream on

You know, I just caught this and I realize your gimmick. You replied to things I clearly never said and nobody except a gimmick poster would accuse anyone. Eisley, Anderson, etc... weren't expiring that year and nobody suggested trading them. Your other examples were players that weren't expiring and then you commented on Charlie Ward's talent, as if that was the factor, and purposefully spelled his name wrong. Give me a break.

You're a gimmick poster and not worth my time if you have to respond like that. If you can't show me the respect of reading my posts before responding, and then coming up with a MEANINGFUL response, then there's no point of acknowledging you anymore.

Let me know when you grow up.
The Knicks 2026 NBA Champions!
nixluva
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7/27/2007  9:28 PM
Posted by Panos:

[Now, to be fair, it's not as 100% clear to me that this pairing of Curry and Z-Bo
won't work as it was for Franbury. At least Curry and Z-Bo don't play the same
position. However, personally, I would rather ship one of them out for a more
balanced player. Am I allow to say that, nixluva, without being called a hater?

No you can say that, but let me make this clear. I'm tired of you guys exaggerating my statements or my responses to those who take a negative view of things having to do with this team.

Bip, you keep harping on this old topic and to be honest without having the specific threads and comments It's hard for me to apologize to you for any assumed slight against you. What the hell would I apologize for? I don'tt' even know what comments you're talking about or in what context I may have made them. I may not have even been speaking to you specifically in all of my responses. Sorry if I don't just take your word for it.

I have recent evidence of you and others being quick to assume the worst in my comments even when they've been mild. I don't make a habit of attacking people for no reason, tho i'm sure i've been out of line, as have most humans. My posts by and large are to the board in general and in defense of the team.

You want to know what I would say or suggest we do if Steph and Fran didn't work out, well that was obvious in that we had other players who Isiah could turn to if he wanted. He didn't HAVE to play Francis. I actually didn't even like Francis as a player. I just felt that Isiah did what he could to make things easy for them and if they couldn't do it then shame on them. I explained my reasoning in detail, down to the progressions of the sets we would run. It's really not that hard, Francis started off good but Francis later made it harder than it needed to be, as did Steph. Steph struggled early, tho some of that may have been due to not being in shape, but Steph did get it. Francis then had health problems, so really there wasn't much of a good chance for success. When Francis wasn't sulking, he played well, so I know he understood what to do, but he had flaws he couldn't seem to overcome. Like shooting the shot when it called for a catch and shoot or making the pass when it was the right time. He hesistated and then had to break off plays. This led to a lot of awful shots by him and wasted possessions.

In terms of Curry and Zach, I think it's an even better case than Steph and Fran. Why shouldn't they do well? Zach plays all over the floor and he has range and a handle. He's NOT the same player as Curry. So to me the doubters have far less reason to do so and it's not even cose to last year with Steph & Fran. What do we do if it doesn't work? Hell what does any team do when they make a major trade for a player and it doesn't work out? Why is there such a desire to look at the worst case scenario? How about it works just OK to start and then get's better as they move along.
misterearl
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7/27/2007  9:38 PM
Solace - oh never mind

[Edited by - misterearl on 07-27-2007 9:39 PM]
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misterearl
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7/27/2007  9:50 PM
newyorknewyork - Doolan would have lost a lot more than a few games by taking the route you suggested

He would have lost the faith of the fans and quite possibly earned an investigation by the New York-based NBA office that cannot afford to have a franchise in a major market deliberately trying to lose games by reducing its roster to the quality of a pick up game on West 4th Street.

How can you deal Milos Vujanic when he never appeared in the states?

I miss Fred Weis
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newyorknewyork
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7/27/2007  11:04 PM
Posted by misterearl:

newyorknewyork - Doolan would have lost a lot more than a few games by taking the route you suggested

He would have lost the faith of the fans and quite possibly earned an investigation by the New York-based NBA office that cannot afford to have a franchise in a major market deliberately trying to lose games by reducing its roster to the quality of a pick up game on West 4th Street.

How can you deal Milos Vujanic when he never appeared in the states?

I miss Fred Weis

We traded the rights for Milos to the Pheniox Suns for Marbury. Does that answer your queston? Nobody said anything about losing games on purpose for high lottery picks. But what they could have been doing is unloading the dead weight by using what was attractive to other teams. Creating a ton of cap flexability and actually focusing on building a team by using cap flexability and draft picks.

Fans would dream of the big name free agents they are going to be able to sign in the offseason with there up coming cap space. They would also quickly turn there attention to the dreams of the stud in highschool or college players that might be available to us.

Can you honestly say that the organization & fan base would be in worse shape than it has been the last 4yrs.

Unloading the dead weight to get cap flexability and draft picks. Then using the cap flexability & draft picks to rebuild a whole new core adding each piece to complete a talented & balanced roster ready to contend. It sure does sound like something fans would have bought into.
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nixluva
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7/27/2007  11:16 PM
I think we still ended up in the same spot regardless of the method chosen. Rebuilds have been taking 3-7 years for any tangible results, so what's so wrong with what we've been doing? Last year wasn't what we hoped for, but you could tell the team was getting better and now the team is even more potent. How can you look at this team and not see that it's got a chance to be really good?

Isiah has 3.5 years under his belt and we could've made the playoffs this last year with a bit of better luck. That's not long to wait for a team to be built. I like the direction of the team and I think it's in good shape for the future.
Panos
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7/28/2007  12:23 PM
Posted by nixluva:

I think we still ended up in the same spot regardless of the method chosen. Rebuilds have been taking 3-7 years for any tangible results, so what's so wrong with what we've been doing? Last year wasn't what we hoped for, but you could tell the team was getting better and now the team is even more potent. How can you look at this team and not see that it's got a chance to be really good?

Isiah has 3.5 years under his belt and we could've made the playoffs this last year with a bit of better luck. That's not long to wait for a team to be built. I like the direction of the team and I think it's in good shape for the future.


What is your limit with Isiah to get us into the playoffs? I just want to for know for the record.
Is this something you refuse to answer? You can say 10 years, if that's what you think, and I won't pester you about it until 2013.
nixluva
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7/28/2007  12:51 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by nixluva:

I think we still ended up in the same spot regardless of the method chosen. Rebuilds have been taking 3-7 years for any tangible results, so what's so wrong with what we've been doing? Last year wasn't what we hoped for, but you could tell the team was getting better and now the team is even more potent. How can you look at this team and not see that it's got a chance to be really good?

Isiah has 3.5 years under his belt and we could've made the playoffs this last year with a bit of better luck. That's not long to wait for a team to be built. I like the direction of the team and I think it's in good shape for the future.


What is your limit with Isiah to get us into the playoffs? I just want to for know for the record.
Is this something you refuse to answer? You can say 10 years, if that's what you think, and I won't pester you about it until 2013.

Man i've already gone on record here as saying we must make the playoffs this year and not just get in and get swept in the 1st rd.
This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy. So many of you totally miss my statements and then try to make it sound like I never take a hard stance with this team. I'm as rational as anyone else on this board and I'm tired of the disrespect from some around here.

I expected that we had a good shot at making the playoffs last year and i'm not happy that the season ended the way it did. I'd love to have seen what would have happened if we had better health. We'll never know, but I know that this team has again been improved upon, by Isiah and not just for the short term either. In fact with a good deal of young guys who are just coming into their own, it's not that hard to see how we could have some let downs, but I saw some improvement last year and I expect a nice jump in wins this year. We still don't know what the final roster is gonna be yet. Perhaps he can make a move that further balances the club. We'll see.
Panos
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7/28/2007  1:38 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by nixluva:

I think we still ended up in the same spot regardless of the method chosen. Rebuilds have been taking 3-7 years for any tangible results, so what's so wrong with what we've been doing? Last year wasn't what we hoped for, but you could tell the team was getting better and now the team is even more potent. How can you look at this team and not see that it's got a chance to be really good?

Isiah has 3.5 years under his belt and we could've made the playoffs this last year with a bit of better luck. That's not long to wait for a team to be built. I like the direction of the team and I think it's in good shape for the future.


What is your limit with Isiah to get us into the playoffs? I just want to for know for the record.
Is this something you refuse to answer? You can say 10 years, if that's what you think, and I won't pester you about it until 2013.

Man i've already gone on record here as saying we must make the playoffs this year and not just get in and get swept in the 1st rd.
This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy. So many of you totally miss my statements and then try to make it sound like I never take a hard stance with this team. I'm as rational as anyone else on this board and I'm tired of the disrespect from some around here.

I expected that we had a good shot at making the playoffs last year and i'm not happy that the season ended the way it did. I'd love to have seen what would have happened if we had better health. We'll never know, but I know that this team has again been improved upon, by Isiah and not just for the short term either. In fact with a good deal of young guys who are just coming into their own, it's not that hard to see how we could have some let downs, but I saw some improvement last year and I expect a nice jump in wins this year. We still don't know what the final roster is gonna be yet. Perhaps he can make a move that further balances the club. We'll see.

So when you say "must" you mean "or else Isiah should be fired?"
That's what I'm getting at. Where do you personally draw the line for I.T.?
nixluva
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7/28/2007  1:52 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by nixluva:

I think we still ended up in the same spot regardless of the method chosen. Rebuilds have been taking 3-7 years for any tangible results, so what's so wrong with what we've been doing? Last year wasn't what we hoped for, but you could tell the team was getting better and now the team is even more potent. How can you look at this team and not see that it's got a chance to be really good?

Isiah has 3.5 years under his belt and we could've made the playoffs this last year with a bit of better luck. That's not long to wait for a team to be built. I like the direction of the team and I think it's in good shape for the future.


What is your limit with Isiah to get us into the playoffs? I just want to for know for the record.
Is this something you refuse to answer? You can say 10 years, if that's what you think, and I won't pester you about it until 2013.

Man i've already gone on record here as saying we must make the playoffs this year and not just get in and get swept in the 1st rd.
This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy. So many of you totally miss my statements and then try to make it sound like I never take a hard stance with this team. I'm as rational as anyone else on this board and I'm tired of the disrespect from some around here.

I expected that we had a good shot at making the playoffs last year and i'm not happy that the season ended the way it did. I'd love to have seen what would have happened if we had better health. We'll never know, but I know that this team has again been improved upon, by Isiah and not just for the short term either. In fact with a good deal of young guys who are just coming into their own, it's not that hard to see how we could have some let downs, but I saw some improvement last year and I expect a nice jump in wins this year. We still don't know what the final roster is gonna be yet. Perhaps he can make a move that further balances the club. We'll see.

So when you say "must" you mean "or else Isiah should be fired?"
That's what I'm getting at. Where do you personally draw the line for I.T.?

I'm not the owner. Obviously no matter what I feel Dolan has his own criteria and he's the one that matters. As for me, I can't say that i'd call for him to be fired unless I see a total collapse in addition to not making the playoffs. Perhaps there's a serious battle in the East as teams seem to all have made improvements this year. If it's a close battle and we don't get in, but the team played well, meaning above .500, then i'm not sure. There are so many variables as well. How did individual players mesh and progress? Did the kids look good, despite not making the playoffs?

I don't think it's a slam dunk that he should be fired but i wouldn't have a problem if he was fired after not making the playoffs yet again. The team is full of young talent and if he's not the guy for the job at least the cupboard isn't bare. The next guy would have something to work with. Which is why I disagree with the premise of this thread, cuz the team doesn't need to be blown up. Why would we need to do that? It's pretty much a new team with more young players than old. WIth all of this conjecture, I don't think we'll have to worry about this team from this point on. I like our chances with this roster.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
7/28/2007  2:14 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by nixluva:

I think we still ended up in the same spot regardless of the method chosen. Rebuilds have been taking 3-7 years for any tangible results, so what's so wrong with what we've been doing? Last year wasn't what we hoped for, but you could tell the team was getting better and now the team is even more potent. How can you look at this team and not see that it's got a chance to be really good?

Isiah has 3.5 years under his belt and we could've made the playoffs this last year with a bit of better luck. That's not long to wait for a team to be built. I like the direction of the team and I think it's in good shape for the future.


What is your limit with Isiah to get us into the playoffs? I just want to for know for the record.
Is this something you refuse to answer? You can say 10 years, if that's what you think, and I won't pester you about it until 2013.

Man i've already gone on record here as saying we must make the playoffs this year and not just get in and get swept in the 1st rd.
This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy. So many of you totally miss my statements and then try to make it sound like I never take a hard stance with this team. I'm as rational as anyone else on this board and I'm tired of the disrespect from some around here.

I expected that we had a good shot at making the playoffs last year and i'm not happy that the season ended the way it did. I'd love to have seen what would have happened if we had better health. We'll never know, but I know that this team has again been improved upon, by Isiah and not just for the short term either. In fact with a good deal of young guys who are just coming into their own, it's not that hard to see how we could have some let downs, but I saw some improvement last year and I expect a nice jump in wins this year. We still don't know what the final roster is gonna be yet. Perhaps he can make a move that further balances the club. We'll see.

So when you say "must" you mean "or else Isiah should be fired?"
That's what I'm getting at. Where do you personally draw the line for I.T.?
The catch is that he'll find several excuses if they don't make the playoffs.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
7/28/2007  2:28 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

The catch is that he'll find several excuses if they don't make the playoffs.

I won't need to make any excuses. There may be valid reasons why things don't work out. That's not the same as a run of the mill excuse. My dog ate my homework is an excuse. There was traffic and that's why i'm late is an excuse. Losing 3 of the top players on your team isn't an excuse that's a valid reason for losing games. No one anticipates losing that many top players at once, for the last 20 games. No team has that kind of depth.

Do you feel this team should make the playoffs? If not, then you can't be disappointed if they fail to make the playoffs. All you can do is gloat that I was wrong about the team. If I'm right, I not only had a better take on the team than you, but I get to bask in the glow of this team being in the playoffs. If you agree with me that this team should be a playoff team then we can both enjoy the season and watch our favorite team get to the 2nd season and hopefully advance.

Just remember i'm not your enemy. I like the same team you do.
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
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Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
7/28/2007  2:47 PM
Posted by nixluva:


Do you go back to the last championship? I just missed it. I was alive, but not yet at the fever pitch Knick fan that I am now. The NBA was different then and I didn't have the means to really follow the Knicks like now. I was 8 years old then. So I really couldn't appreciate what was going on. So like most of us, i've been suffering along with the team all these years.

I remember how upset I was when Bernard King blew out his knee. I'm still angry about the missed chances we had during the Ewing era. The 1993 loss to the Bulls still REALLY bothers me to this day. Charles Smith ...

I'm remember how drained I was at the end of the finals against Houston. Man we were so close. I thought for sure that we would finally get that ring. Even after game 6, I still felt like we could do it. MAN!!!!

Then there's that 1997 loss to the Heat after the fight. I still hate Stern for suspending Ewing. I believe that team was gonna go on to beat the Bulls that year. That team was ready. You could feel it.


I don't go back to the last championship.

I'm pretty much all 90's.

In fact I used to hate the Knicks; I was a big Barkley fan. But of course, my hate of the Knicks could never outdo my hate for the Bulls, and especially Mike.

I went to the '96 game at the Garden when Ewing stole the ball from Jordan before the end of the half and dunked it in Rodman's face.....and then crashed on his knees. (yes I laughed).





Anyway, basically the whole reason for this thread is because atleast dudes on this site aren't completely blind. Every great team I can ever think of had 2 out these 3 things:

A great coach
A great GM
A great player

* that's the sad thing about KG, great player, horrible GM, never had a really great coach.



And sometimes all 3. And by "great", just to clarify for anyone, I mean HOF.


We get the big goosehead, we have nothing, zilch, nada. Atleast with Larry Brown we would've had 1.



I just hope Zach gets in a fight with Stephon, and Dolan fires Isiah so we can FINALLY rebuild this garbage heap.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07-28-2007 2:48 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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