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OMG: Tim Hardaway: "I hate gay people"
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newyorknewyork
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2/16/2007  3:50 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I mean wouldn't have cared to write how you felt. Not really that you don't care at all.

What is upseting me about this thread though is how christianity is being brought down so bad in this thread while support for homosexuality seems to keep rising and rising. Im not telling people to bash homosexuals, but don't rip christianity because it doesn't support homosexuals either.

Im still a young buck though, a lot of you guys are older so im sure you guys know way more than I do about my own religion and homosexuality. But hey the more you bring subjects to the table and are open and honesty the more you learn.
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bitty41
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2/16/2007  4:24 PM
newyorknewyork,

Please stop calling yourself a Christian (well at least publicly) pass yourself as Devil Worshipper lol because your making us all look bad. I was raised Catholic and still practice but I would rather not be viewed as a bigoted and narrow-minded bible-thumper.
Allanfan20
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2/16/2007  4:30 PM
NewYorkNewYork, nobody is putting homosexuality before their religion. What some people are saying, or at least the vibe that I'm getting, is that people seem to have changed the face of not only Christianity, but also of Judaism and the Muslim religion as well and it's very disturbing to say the least.

I was gonna stand right with you and say to people that it's not only Christianity that mixes up their religion. It's people of all faiths and religions. It's called human flaw mixing up with the human ego. Not a good combination.

Just remember NYNY, God never ever said "Go and persecute any person." let alone go people. He takes care of everything himself, let them live their lives and if you don't like them, then stay away.

I personally can care less about gay people. I've spoken to some, and worked with a few and was able to have a regular conversation with them. However, there is a point when is just flat out becomes uncomfortable, and that's when I walk away and let them just do their thing.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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2/16/2007  4:33 PM
Posted by bitty41:

newyorknewyork,

Please stop calling yourself a Christian (well at least publicly) pass yourself as Devil Worshipper lol because your making us all look bad. I was raised Catholic and still practice but I would rather not be viewed as a bigoted and narrow-minded bible-thumper.

Hey, lets not pick on NYNY. He admitted he's young (As you and I are, Bitty) but he's a good guy and is probably very good to his faith.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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2/16/2007  4:39 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Judging people for how they live their lives isn't a fundamental christain ideal at all anyway. Thou shall not judge, right? Leave the judging to thy father, not to ourselves. Hence, why do we even care if someones gay?

Allanfan20 is the man. You rep your religion proper. It's a shame some people give religion a bad name.

eViL, to be honest, I'm a lot more spiritual than religious, just because I know how people have given it a bad name as you've said. Also, I just can't take some of the man made rules and how people tell me how I need to celebrate the existance of God. I personally, would rather do it the way God wants me to...

With that said, I am a sinner, and enjoy certain sins just as much as the next, and I will pray for forgiveness that night and really mean it. God knows I'm flawed, just like how he knows the gay people are flawed.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Solace
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2/16/2007  4:46 PM
Ugh. How did this turn into a religious debate?
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
playa2
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2/16/2007  4:48 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I'm not sure about that. I'm a liberal democrat and I fight for everyone's rights, including homosexuals and other groups that I believe are unfairly disadvantaged. I am heterosexual, though (despite the gay robot jokes! )

BTW, I had no idea this thread would get 132 replies! I wasn't sure if anyone was going to reply actually. The thread's gotten pretty crazy!

Nah dude, I wasn't calling you gay. I'm not calling anyone gay. But I will say this -- some people hate themselves for who they are because they can't cope with feeling like they are not "normal". There are gay people, right now, spewing some very anti-gay things because they have no idea how to handle being gay. I'm not saying anyone here is doing that. I'm just saying that it happens.

Mark Foley doesn't think so!
IMHO anybody who's a former as you say drug abuse or boozer that has changed their life around would be a better example than someone who could would show your child an alternate lifestyle that would never allow you to enjoy your grandchildren.
Playa, I read this comment, and I just have to ask. If your child turned out to be gay, would you be happier if they lived a lie, a lifestyle more accepted by society, or would you prefer them to embrace who they are and truely be happy?

No one should hate their child because they are homosexual and if they did they didn't love the child.

Personaly I wouldn't expose them to those learned behaviors as a child , but if they grew up and became a homosexual I would love them the same, but I would not tolerate the "LIFESTYLE" in my presence. You can love someone , but not agree with what they do.

What they do outside my house is fine if they choose to be gay.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
bitty41
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2/16/2007  5:02 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by bitty41:

newyorknewyork,

Please stop calling yourself a Christian (well at least publicly) pass yourself as Devil Worshipper lol because your making us all look bad. I was raised Catholic and still practice but I would rather not be viewed as a bigoted and narrow-minded bible-thumper.

Hey, lets not pick on NYNY. He admitted he's young (As you and I are, Bitty) but he's a good guy and is probably very good to his faith.


Yea your right I shouldn't be picking on him but some of people on here aren't that young and have similar views. Look I don't doubt his faith nor would I ever be in the position to question anyone's faith for that matter. For the most part I'm pretty easy-going with most views whether you believe in Aliens, you think Elvis is still living or any an assortment of things whether I agree or disagree I can respect your ideas and opinions.
But I do draw the line at any form of bigotry, because im sorry if you subscribe to those type of views and beliefs you are not a good guy. To illustrate my point further if say some basketball player came out and said "I hate blacks I wouldn't want one on my team etc" no one at least publicly would dare to defend him they would get completely lambasted. But you make hateful remarks against gays no big deal with some people and other people even take it a step further and actually say they sort of agree. But its okay because thats how they interpret their religion? Bullshyt. Hey what if I said I interpreted Catholicism to mean that Im suppose to hate Muslims you probably wouldn't be patting me on the back saying hey thats how you interpret your religion. Sorry hatred/prejudice/bigotry in any form is wrong PERIOD and certaintely does not make your a more devout Christian.
playa2
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2/16/2007  5:11 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by playa2:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by playa2:
Posted by Allanfan20:



Homosexuality is not a religion, and the gays of the community are not out to impose this lifestyle on other people. They live their lives, maybe in weird as all hell ways, but they do it, and they're not out to spread the gayness of the world, just as we straight people are not out to spread heterosexuality. The homos and heteros are out to find a partner for themselves and that's all.

Somebody please explain to me why would someone have to promote or spread heterosexuality ? It's normal
According to the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association, so is homosexuality

Bonn let me tell you about the thinking of the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association.

They think drug and alcohol abuse are a disease.

I think not!

#1 If drugs and alcohol are a disease it's the only one contacted by an act of your will.

#2 It's the only disease that's packaged and sold.

#3 Only disease that's habit forming

#4 Only disease spread thru advertising.

#5 Only disease without a germ or a virus.

I say that to say this, people makeup terminology for behavior THAT THEY CAN'T EXPLAIN and try and put it in a catergory so people can get some kind of understanding.

And the same goes for the practice of homosexuality.

Alchohalism is a biological disease (Not psychological) because are bodies are designed to become fixated to certain things, and when they become exposed to certain substances, including nicotine, it sets off a trigger which creates the dependency for these substances. Once people start getting set on these substances, they can't just quit whenever they want because addiction is so severe. It takes extreme concentration to conquer something like that, because the BODY is in need for those substances, and it's sending the chemicals to the brain which makes us feel the need for them.

Drug addiction and alchohalism absolutely is a disease.

allan fan, I have seen people, hardcore drug addicts smokers and drinkers stop using drugs and alcohol and never took a 12 step course.

They quit these addictions when they submitted themselves to a God.

Remember we are made up spirit soul and body, in your reply you just described how the body reacts to addictions what about the spirit and soul ?

It's more of a spirtual thing, have you notice the sign on some Liquor store are called "WINE& SPIRITS".

DRUG and ALCOHOL ADDICTIONS ARE NOT DISEASES. Please explain below then.



#1 If drugs and alcohol are a disease it's the only one contacted by an act of your will.

#2 It's the only disease that's packaged and sold.

#3 Only disease that's habit forming

#4 Only disease spread thru advertising.

#5 Only disease without a germ or a virus.

Medical agencies don't always understand addictions when they have spiritual roots concerning patients , but to help patients try and understand their own problems with addictions they put their condition in a catergory like(diseases) and try to treat it as such.





[Edited by - playa2 on 02-16-2007 17:50]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
TMS
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2/16/2007  6:28 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I mean wouldn't have cared to write how you felt. Not really that you don't care at all.

What is upseting me about this thread though is how christianity is being brought down so bad in this thread while support for homosexuality seems to keep rising and rising. Im not telling people to bash homosexuals, but don't rip christianity because it doesn't support homosexuals either.

Im still a young buck though, a lot of you guys are older so im sure you guys know way more than I do about my own religion and homosexuality. But hey the more you bring subjects to the table and are open and honesty the more you learn.


you don't have to apologize for having your own views on this dude... everyone is entitled to their opinion, & again i wasn't trying to put Christianity in a bad light... it's just that i find a lot of hypocrisy in religion in general & a lot of so-called "religious people" out there seem to stand for things that don't seem to jive with the teachings of Christ... i've encountered this all throughout my days of attending church... there's a lot of BS politics & judgement that goes on amongst the people who i saw there every week, & that sorta turned me away from the idea of Christianity being the "perfect religion"... i really don't think there is such a thing now... for me, as long as the religion each person chooses to follow works for them, then that's the right one for them & no one has a right to say otherwise... i take a similar approach when it comes to this whole issue of homosexuality too... in the end, we're all gonna be judged regardless.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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2/16/2007  8:19 PM
i'm still trying to figure out what rudy and his family did to tim.
4949
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2/16/2007  9:08 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Ameachi handled his comments great! Very classy guy. IT was a tasteful response to a difficult comment.

I thought barkley's comments were funny. Saying that the fist to do so (Come out of the closet) while playing would clean up on endorsements!

Its that so many think that gay men just want to "do" all men. Dudes like Timmy just think that all gay men want him?

I think i'd feel uncomfortable if any dude was to glaring at me in the shower with an erection regardless of their sexual orientation. By the way, are the showers in NBA lockerrooms all open? Or individual stalls?

Other than showers, what is the big deal with having a gay man on the team?

Yeah, you'd think that he had some kind of desease or something. It's funny reading what these guys are saying, when they find out he's gay. There's this notion that 'just as long as he stays away from me or if he ever made a pass at me'. It's very interesting watching the 'uncomfortable' reactions from players, who used to play with or against him. The way they talk about it, you'd think he attacked them in the locker room or shower and the way Tim talks, you'd almost think he was raped by the guy. I think players have a great deal of difficulty expressing how they feel about it, for lack of an education about people who are gay. I thought Stern did a great job in dismissing Timmy immediately. It's rediculous. I have a number of associates and a few friends who are gay. They are all around us, just as there are women, black people, asians and everyone else who are all around us everyday, on a daily basis. We can't get away from each other, even if we wanted to. So to watch these guys freak out, from suddenly finding out that 'oh my God, there's a gay person in my shower' is funny as hell and shows how far we have to go to get along and include EVERYONE as a human being. I commend you folks for speaking out on this. It really shows intelligence. I think Stern should think about having sensitivity courses for these players, to get them to understand someone who is gay and know that they aren't going to give them the 'gay desease'. Sheeezzzzz! Hey' police departments in major cities did it! Rural areas did it! Why not professional sports? We still have some racist teams out there also, so why not just take care of it all right now, while it's out now? LOL
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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2/16/2007  9:19 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

The reason I brought my christianity and religion to the topic was only to put in perspective the comparisons of racism & to the way homosexuals are treated. Not for the many reasons a lot of you guys probably think I brought christianity and religion to the topic.

I've stated many times already its not my place to judge anyone, so I don't. But im not going to lie to you guys, and say that im cool with it, or that I support it. And that I hope it becomes the norm. Just so I can fit in with everyone.

Truthfully before Tim Hardaway said his comments nobody really cared about Ameachi on this board. TMS brought up another thread on this subject and nobody seemed to really care. It wasn't until Hardaway said what he said that made a lot of you guys feel *sorry* for him. Because what Hardaway said was very wrong. But if Hardaway never says what he says then nobody on this board would really care.

I don't think anyone cared to comment on it, because it's nothing to talk about really. Really shouldn't be a big deal. Guys like LeBron (who have no respect for now) and Tim showed hatred and people here reacted. Just like any other person, Ameachi should be able to express what he prefers in a relationship, what his life is about without any question. Because he is being questioned (and now recieving e-mail threats), that is why people are coming out in droves to defend who he is.
I'll never trust this' team again.
oohah
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2/16/2007  9:41 PM
Things that I am realizing:

1) Lots of people think God wrote the Bible, and probably don't realize that the book they read was written by men over hundreds of years and has been re-written by Kings and Emperors for political purposes: "King James version"
2) many People have not taken the time to study any other points of view and probably don't recognize the validity of religions that have been around as long or longer.
3) The Bible says so many different things that it will always be used as a weapon against one's fellow man, as it is today, as it was during slavery, as it was in so many wars (WWII). If you believe something you can find a passage to support your belief and ignore all the parts about acceptance, not judging others, and turning the other cheek.

And it's a waste of time to argue about it, screw you guys, I'm going home!



oohah


[Edited by - oohah on 16-02-2007 9:42 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
4949
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2/16/2007  9:54 PM
That's pretty funny dude! Later!
I'll never trust this' team again.
newyorknewyork
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2/16/2007  10:37 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I mean wouldn't have cared to write how you felt. Not really that you don't care at all.

What is upseting me about this thread though is how christianity is being brought down so bad in this thread while support for homosexuality seems to keep rising and rising. Im not telling people to bash homosexuals, but don't rip christianity because it doesn't support homosexuals either.

Im still a young buck though, a lot of you guys are older so im sure you guys know way more than I do about my own religion and homosexuality. But hey the more you bring subjects to the table and are open and honesty the more you learn.


you don't have to apologize for having your own views on this dude... everyone is entitled to their opinion, & again i wasn't trying to put Christianity in a bad light... it's just that i find a lot of hypocrisy in religion in general & a lot of so-called "religious people" out there seem to stand for things that don't seem to jive with the teachings of Christ... i've encountered this all throughout my days of attending church... there's a lot of BS politics & judgement that goes on amongst the people who i saw there every week, & that sorta turned me away from the idea of Christianity being the "perfect religion"... i really don't think there is such a thing now... for me, as long as the religion each person chooses to follow works for them, then that's the right one for them & no one has a right to say otherwise... i take a similar approach when it comes to this whole issue of homosexuality too... in the end, we're all gonna be judged regardless.

The thing is I never said that christianity is the perfect religion or that everyone should follow my view or they are wrong. (I know you aren't saying that I am saying that but thats how it seems like people are viewing me). I never put anyone down for not believing in my view. I first stated *my* belief on why *I* don't support the homosexual lifestyle. Martin asked me a question. And I followed up to his question. I didn't follow up to his quesiton to say that everyone else is wrong and I am correct. Maybe the tone of my post came of that way I don't know. Just that I do have a base to why I believe what I believe.

I really really don't see how im comming off as a bigot or anything like that, other than me not supporting there lifestyle what negative have I stated about homosexuals I even said we shouldn't judge them or that they shouldn't be treated unfairly. Was it because I brought up sodomy? Im hoping someone can explain to me how/why im comming off as a bigot.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
fishmike
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2/16/2007  11:32 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I mean wouldn't have cared to write how you felt. Not really that you don't care at all.

What is upseting me about this thread though is how christianity is being brought down so bad in this thread while support for homosexuality seems to keep rising and rising. Im not telling people to bash homosexuals, but don't rip christianity because it doesn't support homosexuals either.

Im still a young buck though, a lot of you guys are older so im sure you guys know way more than I do about my own religion and homosexuality. But hey the more you bring subjects to the table and are open and honesty the more you learn.


you don't have to apologize for having your own views on this dude... everyone is entitled to their opinion, & again i wasn't trying to put Christianity in a bad light... it's just that i find a lot of hypocrisy in religion in general & a lot of so-called "religious people" out there seem to stand for things that don't seem to jive with the teachings of Christ... i've encountered this all throughout my days of attending church... there's a lot of BS politics & judgement that goes on amongst the people who i saw there every week, & that sorta turned me away from the idea of Christianity being the "perfect religion"... i really don't think there is such a thing now... for me, as long as the religion each person chooses to follow works for them, then that's the right one for them & no one has a right to say otherwise... i take a similar approach when it comes to this whole issue of homosexuality too... in the end, we're all gonna be judged regardless.

The thing is I never said that christianity is the perfect religion or that everyone should follow my view or they are wrong. (I know you aren't saying that I am saying that but thats how it seems like people are viewing me). I never put anyone down for not believing in my view. I first stated *my* belief on why *I* don't support the homosexual lifestyle. Martin asked me a question. And I followed up to his question. I didn't follow up to his quesiton to say that everyone else is wrong and I am correct. Maybe the tone of my post came of that way I don't know. Just that I do have a base to why I believe what I believe.

I really really don't see how im comming off as a bigot or anything like that, other than me not supporting there lifestyle what negative have I stated about homosexuals I even said we shouldn't judge them or that they shouldn't be treated unfairly. Was it because I brought up sodomy? Im hoping someone can explain to me how/why im comming off as a bigot.
I think you have been pretty fair, I think the religous = bigot was reserved for some of the others that have commented

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
joec32033
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2/17/2007  12:08 AM
Posted by oohah:

Things that I am realizing:

1) Lots of people think God wrote the Bible, and probably don't realize that the book they read was written by men over hundreds of years and has been re-written by Kings and Emperors for political purposes: "King James version"
2) many People have not taken the time to study any other points of view and probably don't recognize the validity of religions that have been around as long or longer.
3) The Bible says so many different things that it will always be used as a weapon against one's fellow man, as it is today, as it was during slavery, as it was in so many wars (WWII). If you believe something you can find a passage to support your belief and ignore all the parts about acceptance, not judging others, and turning the other cheek.

And it's a waste of time to argue about it, screw you guys, I'm going home!



oohah


[Edited by - oohah on 16-02-2007 9:42 PM]

I am a catholic and taking the bible at it's word is naive. You wouldn't be able to get through the Genesis book without finding promotions of incest(Adam and Eve were the only humans on earth at first. They had kids. You do the math)
~You can't run from who you are.~
Nalod
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2/17/2007  12:39 AM
Posted by playa2:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by playa2:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by playa2:
Posted by Allanfan20:



Homosexuality is not a religion, and the gays of the community are not out to impose this lifestyle on other people. They live their lives, maybe in weird as all hell ways, but they do it, and they're not out to spread the gayness of the world, just as we straight people are not out to spread heterosexuality. The homos and heteros are out to find a partner for themselves and that's all.

Somebody please explain to me why would someone have to promote or spread heterosexuality ? It's normal
According to the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association, so is homosexuality

Bonn let me tell you about the thinking of the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association.

They think drug and alcohol abuse are a disease.

I think not!

#1 If drugs and alcohol are a disease it's the only one contacted by an act of your will.

#2 It's the only disease that's packaged and sold.

#3 Only disease that's habit forming

#4 Only disease spread thru advertising.

#5 Only disease without a germ or a virus.

I say that to say this, people makeup terminology for behavior THAT THEY CAN'T EXPLAIN and try and put it in a catergory so people can get some kind of understanding.

And the same goes for the practice of homosexuality.

Alchohalism is a biological disease (Not psychological) because are bodies are designed to become fixated to certain things, and when they become exposed to certain substances, including nicotine, it sets off a trigger which creates the dependency for these substances. Once people start getting set on these substances, they can't just quit whenever they want because addiction is so severe. It takes extreme concentration to conquer something like that, because the BODY is in need for those substances, and it's sending the chemicals to the brain which makes us feel the need for them.

Drug addiction and alchohalism absolutely is a disease.

allan fan, I have seen people, hardcore drug addicts smokers and drinkers stop using drugs and alcohol and never took a 12 step course.

They quit these addictions when they submitted themselves to a God.

Remember we are made up spirit soul and body, in your reply you just described how the body reacts to addictions what about the spirit and soul ?

It's more of a spirtual thing, have you notice the sign on some Liquor store are called "WINE& SPIRITS".

DRUG and ALCOHOL ADDICTIONS ARE NOT DISEASES. Please explain below then.



#1 If drugs and alcohol are a disease it's the only one contacted by an act of your will.

#2 It's the only disease that's packaged and sold.

#3 Only disease that's habit forming

#4 Only disease spread thru advertising.

#5 Only disease without a germ or a virus.

Medical agencies don't always understand addictions when they have spiritual roots concerning patients , but to help patients try and understand their own problems with addictions they put their condition in a catergory like(diseases) and try to treat it as such.





[Edited by - playa2 on 02-16-2007 17:50]

Lebron also wrote the bible? cool!

#4 is a great one! You can catch the "gay disease" by watching an ad. Funny, I drive down the road and see an add, and then just get an urge?









nyk4ever
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2/17/2007  2:47 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:


I really really don't see how im comming off as a bigot or anything like that, other than me not supporting there lifestyle what negative have I stated about homosexuals I even said we shouldn't judge them or that they shouldn't be treated unfairly. Was it because I brought up sodomy? Im hoping someone can explain to me how/why im comming off as a bigot.

Don't get it twisted man, I don't think anyone is pointing you out. This is why it's hard to have these kinds of discussions on the internet, most of the time what people say gets blown out of proportion and taken out of context. It's hard. I think everyone respects your views and what you have to say. I know I do, whether I agree or disagree, you seem like a good dude and your just stating your view, thats cool man!

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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