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SL Game 2 Thread: Can we run with PHO?
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OngBok
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7/9/2006  8:58 AM
Balkman also was 3/4 from the field and 2/2 from the stripe !!!
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
AUTOADVERT
simrud
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7/9/2006  9:12 AM
Maybe they saw the game and you did not, so the looser here is you. Besides, these numbers in a summer league game are not impressive at all. As if the summer league numbers mattered that much anyways. Right now its the way they play and what they do is more important then the stats. But hey, if you are not positive, and dare to state a fact, you are a hater. Unless you are stating facts that shiat on Brown. Then you are stating the facts.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
raven
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7/9/2006  9:56 AM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Rich:

Balkman is the bright spot in this game.

Do you watch basketball? the only player worth talking about tonight was Lee. Lee played hard and well. Balkman and Collins were brutal, nate was out of control and frye took an early TKO by Amare Stoudemire. You think getting a couple of opportunitic dunks in a pick up game is good basketball? Balkman was abused on the D, at one point getting the ball literally snatched out of his hands and the player then proceeded to dunk in his grill. Collins is scared shtless, showing very little skill. If you want to say anything good about the Knicks say the word Lee, because everyone else was bad. And I watched these guys tight, i watched every nuance, and I will tell you Balkman, fundamentally has a WAYS to go just in the defensive dept, let alone he only has one offensive skill.

Did you watch the game, or did your hate blind you to reality again?


Exactly what was crossing my mind...
BRIGGS
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7/9/2006  10:06 AM
Posted by OngBok:

Balkman = 8 pts, 4 rebs, 2 stls, 1 blk, 1 ast in 26mins but he had a bad game ??? Some people are losers on this forum !!!

I watched this entire game. Numbers in SL are misleading sometimes. What I am looking for his how someone impacts the game and how that will translate to the big show. Collins has been absolutely AWFUL. Balkman was nothing. While he did embarass himself once quite badly, he got a rebound, someone ripped it right out of his hands then proceeded to take it right up at his face and dunk in his grill, he pretty much was a non-factor--he has very little skill. All of this stuff you heard about his D, well watch the first two games closley---he gets burned on the D repeatedly--in the post, off the dribble, scared of the ball offensively unless he has a lane to attempt a dunk[which is one offensive move a dunk] rebounding was below par if that is what he wa brought in here to do. David Lee rebounded--this guy went with the flow and got a couple of opportunstic dunks--he was invisible and a NON factor on the D as Pheonix did whatever they wanted to any Knick.

Channing Frye took an early TKO from stoudemire, nate is OK but doesnt adjust yet when his shot is off--meaning we could use a guy like Marcus Williams who just runs the show--we have 5 shoot first G. How can ANYONE watch these games and come back with a stright face and tell me that they wish they could dump both guys for Marcus Williams? Balkman--like i thought is a PURE dime a dozen 2nd round pick--absolutely NOTHING that I have seen that makes me think he can do special things in the NBA--hes way to small to guard the post and the smaller guys ate him up going to the basket--getting him into the air and off his feet multiple times. He also got outworked --which is *supposed8 to be his forte*??


even stephon Marbury said Balkman was like an Ariza, but if Marbury was being straight he would also say he's not even as good as Ariza--what a 45+ pick???

collins is nothing but reece gaines
RIP Crushalot😞
Knicksfan
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7/9/2006  10:33 AM
Talk about overreacting, from both sides.

Haven't we read this before? How many here destroyed Frye last summer for his play? He wound up shutting up everyone being the best rookie we had last season and amazingly looking like a proven veteran.

How many critisized Isiah for keeping Lee instead of giving him up to the Bulls? Now Lee is proving to be a great all-around prospect.

Lets give them time to get themselves going before we send them out of the NBA...
Knicks_Fan
VDesai
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7/9/2006  10:54 AM
From draftexpress:


http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1397

Knicks

Jonathan Givony

Nate Robinson

Two good plays, and one bad. That was the story of Nate
Robinson in the first half. When he was focused on being a
point guard and getting everyone involved he made some great
passes in traffic to feed cutters or thread the needle to a
briefly open man for an easy basket. When he wasn’t though, he
was very wild, forcing the issue and running into brick walls,
losing his concentration and making foolish decisions
all-around. Robinson’s talent is there without a doubt, he
just needs to settle down and keep his focus.

Robinson never really got back into the game in the 2nd half.
He took some bad shots and made poor decisions. This wasn’t a
game he will want to remember.

Channing Frye

One of the bigger disappointments in a pretty disappointing
first half for the Knicks, Frye did not look like his head was
in the game at all and appeared to be intimidated from the
first minute by the presence of Amare Stoudemire. He was
outmuscled and outhustled on both ends of the floor, not going
after rebounds, failing to get out and defend the jump-shot,
getting his hands on rebounds briefly but not being able to
come down with them and not really trying to make his presence
felt inside the paint. He got some points by knocking down his
trademark mid-range jumper, but may have settled for it a
little too much. His body language doesn’t look very good so
far.

Two minutes into the 3rd quarter, Frye went down in a scrum at
half-court holding his ankle and did not come back after that.


David Lee

The lone real bright spot for the Knicks in the first half,
David Lee was all over the place trying to make up for the
shortcomings of his teammates. He hustled non-stop and got all
over the glass on both ends, coming up with a number of
tip-ins and putbacks and scrapping the entire way through. He
didn’t try to shoot any jumpers, but did put the ball on the
floor once very nicely and swooped in for a very emphatic
finish. When a shot wasn’t there, he never hesitated to
release a very intelligent pass.

David Lee continued to be the best player on the Knicks team
in the 2nd half, hustling his way all over the floor and
translating that into quite a few points as well. He ran the
court like a madman and finished again and again in transition
with a series of outstanding dunks. While his teammates for
the most part threw the towel in, Lee continued to make sharp
cuts to the basket and nice catches before finishing
wonderfully with his combination of athleticism and
intelligence. He hit the glass extremely hard and made a very
nice living off of offensive rebounds alone on his way to a
very efficient night.

Renaldo Balkman

Balkman had a solid game. He played good defense, grabbed a
bunch of rebounds, did a little bit of ball-handling and
generally did all the little things the way he usually does.
He’s a smaller and less intelligent version of David Lee, but
he hasn’t embarrassed Isiah Thomas so far in this summer
league.

Mardy Collins

Mardy Collins doesn’t look very good in this summer league so
far. It’s gotten so bad that he even shot an airball from the
free throw line. Let’s just leave it at that.
BRIGGS
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7/9/2006  11:03 AM
Posted by Rich:

It was reported that Frye wasn't in shape as a result of the limitations imposed by rehabbing the knee injury. Granted Amare was too much for him to handle, but he may not be able to play back to back games yet.

let me see, amare comes off devastating microfracture surgery--hasnt played in a year--looked like an athletic shell of himself, but we cry about frye not being in shape. as knick fans, im sorry but i dont want to here the never ending excuses for these guys. i like frye, but he was playing against a guy who is just flat out a meaner dude, and while mare was out of shape out of sync and looked nothing like the old amare[which is sad] he TKOd Frye real quick. get real
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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7/9/2006  11:06 AM
I love how when you are critical on this forum that you are called a hater. This **** is getting pretty ridiculous guys. Just because we don't blindly support every single move that this franchise makes like some of you do, does not make some of his haters.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BRIGGS
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7/9/2006  11:10 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I love how when you are critical on this forum that you are called a hater. This **** is getting pretty ridiculous guys. Just because we don't blindly support every single move that this franchise makes like some of you do, does not make some of his haters.


when you are winning 20-30 games with a 125 mm $ payroll, you better be darn critical. There are things that need to be criticized. I would have DEFINITELY traded those picks for something that couldve helped me now if I knew who we were picking.
RIP Crushalot😞
Rich
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7/9/2006  11:23 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Rich:

It was reported that Frye wasn't in shape as a result of the limitations imposed by rehabbing the knee injury. Granted Amare was too much for him to handle, but he may not be able to play back to back games yet.

let me see, amare comes off devastating microfracture surgery--hasnt played in a year--looked like an athletic shell of himself, but we cry about frye not being in shape. as knick fans, im sorry but i dont want to here the never ending excuses for these guys. i like frye, but he was playing against a guy who is just flat out a meaner dude, and while mare was out of shape out of sync and looked nothing like the old amare[which is sad] he TKOd Frye real quick. get real

This just in: Frye isn't anywhere near as good as Amare.
Rich
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7/9/2006  11:24 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I love how when you are critical on this forum that you are called a hater. This **** is getting pretty ridiculous guys. Just because we don't blindly support every single move that this franchise makes like some of you do, does not make some of his haters.

It's about being objective.

I have been as critical as Isiah as anyone. I would like to see him get fired today. But to deny that he has drafted well is being blind to reality.
tomverve
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7/9/2006  11:53 AM
So much drama! The point is that, while Balkman has flaws, he has positives as well. Even Briggs' boy Givony said as much regarding this game-- not great, but some solid contributions. Briggs is the only person who holds this position that Balkman is basically garbage. Then again, at some points Briggs thought Frye was a bust, Guillermo Diaz was a lotto pick, etc... he lets his imagination run away with itself some times, and he's quite prone to letting his agendas affect his judgment ("we should have picked Bynum -> so I will nitpick and trash Frye" ... "we should have picked Williams -> so I will nitpick and trash Balkman"). Some people might call him a hater because of all this, but I just take it as good evidence that his ranting and raving is to be taken with about two tons of salt. It means very little in the grand scheme of things.
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tkf
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7/9/2006  12:31 PM
Posted by tomverve:

So much drama! The point is that, while Balkman has flaws, he has positives as well. Even Briggs' boy Givony said as much regarding this game-- not great, but some solid contributions. Briggs is the only person who holds this position that Balkman is basically garbage. Then again, at some points Briggs thought Frye was a bust, Guillermo Diaz was a lotto pick, etc... he lets his imagination run away with itself some times, and he's quite prone to letting his agendas affect his judgment ("we should have picked Bynum -> so I will nitpick and trash Frye" ... "we should have picked Williams -> so I will nitpick and trash Balkman"). Some people might call him a hater because of all this, but I just take it as good evidence that his ranting and raving is to be taken with about two tons of salt. It means very little in the grand scheme of things.

excellent post, and very well put. Again, briggs is is letting his emotions and agenda here get the best of him, I don't call briggs a hater, more drama than hate..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BRIGGS
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7/9/2006  12:38 PM
Posted by tomverve:

So much drama! The point is that, while Balkman has flaws, he has positives as well. Even Briggs' boy Givony said as much regarding this game-- not great, but some solid contributions. Briggs is the only person who holds this position that Balkman is basically garbage. Then again, at some points Briggs thought Frye was a bust, Guillermo Diaz was a lotto pick, etc... he lets his imagination run away with itself some times, and he's quite prone to letting his agendas affect his judgment ("we should have picked Bynum -> so I will nitpick and trash Frye" ... "we should have picked Williams -> so I will nitpick and trash Balkman"). Some people might call him a hater because of all this, but I just take it as good evidence that his ranting and raving is to be taken with about two tons of salt. It means very little in the grand scheme of things.

When Francis and Marbury implode, we wwil be WISHING that we had Marcus in the stable. I dont agree with a lot of what Givony says. I argued with him that frye was a lottery pick and that Noah would be a top 5 pick if he came out--he thought both were 2nd round picks. Everyone makes mistakes, but I feel comfortable saying that Balkman is a player we couldve had at pick or if we had to reach pick 29. If anyone here really thinks that Collins is a better PG than Williams, you will be in for a rude awakening. He was the best player on one of the two most talented teams. He's a pure skill baller all the way through. You dont bypass a skill player for a 2nd round specialty pick when youve won 23 games. But there IS a reason why we have won very few games. Its not LB its the ROSTER
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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7/9/2006  12:47 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by tomverve:

So much drama! The point is that, while Balkman has flaws, he has positives as well. Even Briggs' boy Givony said as much regarding this game-- not great, but some solid contributions. Briggs is the only person who holds this position that Balkman is basically garbage. Then again, at some points Briggs thought Frye was a bust, Guillermo Diaz was a lotto pick, etc... he lets his imagination run away with itself some times, and he's quite prone to letting his agendas affect his judgment ("we should have picked Bynum -> so I will nitpick and trash Frye" ... "we should have picked Williams -> so I will nitpick and trash Balkman"). Some people might call him a hater because of all this, but I just take it as good evidence that his ranting and raving is to be taken with about two tons of salt. It means very little in the grand scheme of things.

When Francis and Marbury implode, we wwil be WISHING that we had Marcus in the stable. I dont agree with a lot of what Givony says. I argued with him that frye was a lottery pick and that Noah would be a top 5 pick if he came out--he thought both were 2nd round picks. Everyone makes mistakes, but I feel comfortable saying that Balkman is a player we couldve had at pick or if we had to reach pick 29. If anyone here really thinks that Collins is a better PG than Williams, you will be in for a rude awakening. He was the best player on one of the two most talented teams. He's a pure skill baller all the way through. You dont bypass a skill player for a 2nd round specialty pick when youve won 23 games. But there IS a reason why we have won very few games. Its not LB its the ROSTER

I agree Briggs. It makes too much sense. My biggest problem with NOT taking Williams was the fact that the Knicks have two 30yr old combo guards playing pointguard for this team and they won 23 games last year. Marcus Williams would have been the future at point guard and the Knicks would have had a really bright future, at that. Instead Isiah took a player who probably wouldn't have been drafted until mid-to late 2nd round. I like what Balkman brings to the court but geez, not at pick freaking 20.
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tomverve
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7/9/2006  12:54 PM
Since when does evaluating how Balkman has looked in two summer league games have anything to do with Williams? Maybe Balkman's dunk is nicer if Williams has a bad game? Or maybe Balkman's dunk is nicer if we took him 20 picks later? You can take that stance, but I think it's BS. Balkman's dunk is Balkman's dunk, period. It's more obvious than ever that you're allowing your opinion about a choice in the draft effect your evaluation of a player on the court, which are two independent things-- one reflects on the GM, one reflects on the player himself. Maybe when you watch the game you see Balkman, pick 20, picked instead of Marcus Williams, but I just see some new kid named Balkman needing some work but also doing some nice things. You didn't refute anything I said in my last post, but rather, you confirmed everything I said. Your evaluation of Balkman carries very little weight since it is severely biased by your agenda.
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BRIGGS
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7/9/2006  1:10 PM
Posted by tomverve:

Since when does evaluating how Balkman has looked in two summer league games have anything to do with Williams? Maybe Balkman's dunk is nicer if Williams has a bad game? Or maybe Balkman's dunk is nicer if we took him 20 picks later? You can take that stance, but I think it's BS. Balkman's dunk is Balkman's dunk, period. It's more obvious than ever that you're allowing your opinion about a choice in the draft effect your evaluation of a player on the court, which are two independent things-- one reflects on the GM, one reflects on the player himself. Maybe when you watch the game you see Balkman, pick 20, picked instead of Marcus Williams, but I just see some new kid named Balkman needing some work but also doing some nice things. You didn't refute anything I said in my last post, but rather, you confirmed everything I said. Your evaluation of Balkman carries very little weight since it is severely biased by your agenda.

My believe is that Balkman is a 2nd round pick--that he has a very limited offensive skill set, that he is smallish for the nba if they think hes a 3, that he needs to learn HOW to play fundamental defense and stay on his feet. Im not the only one who thinks this way, my bet is 29 of the other NBA teams thought he was 2nd round material. He does bring energy, he does explode to the basket--he has the ability with his long arms to make some energy plays on defense. Does it translate to the NBA? Athletic ability YES skills --not even close. He headed for the NBDL with Collins. If he plays hard and doesnt take games off like he did in college, he'll need a year of PT and he is NOT going to getb that at the NBA level--you have to be kidding me--hes not NBA material right now, either is Collins. They need to be brought along the right way. Sitting on the bench isnt going to help them long term and thats what they will be doing. they shouldve traded the picks BOTH of them and picked up 2nd rounders and future 1s. Wait pick 32 went for mo taylor and his 20mm per.
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tomverve
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7/9/2006  1:20 PM
You're still talking about the draft. A really unbiased evaluation of Balkman would be completely blind to where he was actually drafted, or where he was projected to be drafted-- it would only change according to what he showed on the court. I agree with you that Balkman has a lot to work on (see my previous post in this thread), but I also see some good things. I could see him being a solid role player for the team in short bursts this coming season-- certainly he's not garbage for which it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be stinking it up in the NBDL. But I have a funny feeling you wouldn't have this no-hope NBDL stance on him if we picked him 40th instead of 20th. That's what you call a biased evaluation.
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7/9/2006  1:41 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Talk about overreacting, from both sides.

Haven't we read this before? How many here destroyed Frye last summer for his play? He wound up shutting up everyone being the best rookie we had last season and amazingly looking like a proven veteran.

How many critisized Isiah for keeping Lee instead of giving him up to the Bulls? Now Lee is proving to be a great all-around prospect.

Lets give them time to get themselves going before we send them out of the NBA...


Exactly!
I'll never trust this' team again.
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7/9/2006  1:45 PM
Posted by tomverve:

You're still talking about the draft. A really unbiased evaluation of Balkman would be completely blind to where he was actually drafted, or where he was projected to be drafted-- it would only change according to what he showed on the court. I agree with you that Balkman has a lot to work on (see my previous post in this thread), but I also see some good things. I could see him being a solid role player for the team in short bursts this coming season-- certainly he's not garbage for which it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be stinking it up in the NBDL. But I have a funny feeling you wouldn't have this no-hope NBDL stance on him if we picked him 40th instead of 20th. That's what you call a biased evaluation.


here is the layman---he does not have 20th pick talent. my evaluation of him is hes a similar[but not as good] player to trevor ariza. he's small for the nba 6-6 206 isnt a big player and i have noticed how easily it has been to muscle him in the post. i have noticed he leaves his feet way to much on the D and has been bit off the dribble by quicker players. I have not seen anything spectaular in terms of rebounding. he has explosion to the basket he brings enrgy he has long arms if you read my post a while back i said the sam exact thing--that is an evaluation MY evaluation. so far you havent said anything about Blakman other than to say I havent been fair evaluating him so the 4-5 games I have seen him on TV in college and the two in the SL isnt a big enough sample even though I saw amare stoudemire practice in NJ for 15 minutes and i knew he was the next shaq 1 year before he entered the draft.
RIP Crushalot😞
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