Posted by Solace:

Originally posted by Bonn1997:

Originally posted by Solace:

Originally posted by fishmike:

Originally posted by McK1:

34 million for the right to draft Renaldo Balkman.

ISiah in a nutshell

Exactly. That's what I posted in the draft thread. Factor in Balkman's three years guaranteed, and it's over $40 million (after luxury tax) for a Renaldo Balkman. Not bad. If Balkman is worth over $13 million a year, I think Big Snacks contract doesn't look so bad anymore.

If you want to be that technical, you've gotta subtract AD's $14 mil and the $3 mil cash considerations we got. Then I guess it's around $6 mil per for 4 years. That's probably the most efficient use of money Isiah has ever gotten! (Not sure that's much of a compliment though!)

Um, wrong. Antonio Davis's contract expired a year earlier than Jalen Roses. I'll help you with the math.

($17 million for 2006-2007 + $1.2 million (approx) * 3) * 200% (luxury tax) = $41.2 million (approx)

Antonio Davis is already off the books for Toronto. That's WHY they did the trade!

...and the Knicks did the trade because Larry Brown begged for Jalen Rose. Even Brown's agent hasn't denied that one. He laughed off the Francis one, but he didn't laugh at the Jalen trade...because Brown asked for him. End of story.

Also, your basic math is wrong. Toronto also sent us $3 million.

Originally posted by crzymdups:

Originally posted by Solace:

Originally posted by Bonn1997:

Originally posted by Solace:

Originally posted by fishmike:

Originally posted by McK1:

34 million for the right to draft Renaldo Balkman.

ISiah in a nutshell

Exactly. That's what I posted in the draft thread. Factor in Balkman's three years guaranteed, and it's over $40 million (after luxury tax) for a Renaldo Balkman. Not bad. If Balkman is worth over $13 million a year, I think Big Snacks contract doesn't look so bad anymore.

If you want to be that technical, you've gotta subtract AD's $14 mil and the $3 mil cash considerations we got. Then I guess it's around $6 mil per for 4 years. That's probably the most efficient use of money Isiah has ever gotten! (Not sure that's much of a compliment though!)

Um, wrong. Antonio Davis's contract expired a year earlier than Jalen Roses. I'll help you with the math.
($17 million for 2006-2007 + $1.2 million (approx) * 3) * 200% (luxury tax) = $41.2 million (approx)
Antonio Davis is already off the books for Toronto. That's WHY they did the trade!

...and the Knicks did the trade because Larry Brown begged for Jalen Rose. Even Brown's agent hasn't denied that one. He laughed off the Francis one, but he didn't laugh at the Jalen trade...because Brown asked for him. End of story.
Also, your basic math is wrong. Toronto also sent us $3 million.

Bonn already corrected me on the $3 million. You're right, I left out the $3 million. The point still stands. 8 figures for a guy projected to be a second rounder is a little high. Teams were selling first rounders for $3 million.

Originally posted by TMS:

we couldn't buy a pick cuz of our roster situation... we had too many players under contract already... i know it's easy to say we should've bought another pick, but if Dolan wasn't willing to buy out some players to clear roster space, Isiah's hands were tied in that aspect.
[Edited by - TMS on 06-29-2006 11:12 AM]

Phoenix has been selling picks for years. It's very foreseeable in a "weak draft" that there would be picks to buy. We did buy a pick in this draft. It's just that ours cost us $31 million (counting the $3 million cash back from the Raptors).

So what was the attraction of a player who received little pre-draft fanfare? "We wanted to get defenders," Thomas said. "We have enough offensive players. We need guys who defend."

Posted by Solace:

Bonn already corrected me on the $3 million. You're right, I left out the $3 million. The point still stands. 8 figures for a guy projected to be a second rounder is a little high. Teams were selling first rounders for $3 million.

The point is a flawed one. We didn't buy the pick. We traded an expiring contract for a player Larry Brown begged for and a pick.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by Solace:

Bonn already corrected me on the $3 million. You're right, I left out the $3 million. The point still stands. 8 figures for a guy projected to be a second rounder is a little high. Teams were selling first rounders for $3 million.

The point is a flawed one. We didn't buy the pick. We traded an expiring contract for a player Larry Brown begged for and a pick.

And we have another tradeable asset (at the expense of the salary cap). I am not concerned with the cap to the extent of money wasted. It isn't as if MSG would lower ticket prices if they were below the cap. The only issue is the ability to sign top level free agents since cap flexibility is further away.

The other approach to the cap is to forget the luxury tax implications and to consider high-salary near-expiring contracts as a commodity. They can be used to pick up a talented player once the team is in contention. In this distorted and highly skewed view, IT preserved an asset by not allowing AD's contract to expire. Necessary to this theory is having a few expiring contracts each year. Jalen, as an expiring contract this year, preserved trade flexibility for another year. (BLECK, it hurts to say it like this, but economically expiring contracts are far overvalued with respect to actual talent.).

Well we know that Phoenix had no intent on drafting Balkman becuase once Carney was picked at 16, Phoenix was out of the draft. Isiah has lied to the fans yet again.

Originally posted by crzymdups:

Originally posted by Solace:

Bonn already corrected me on the $3 million. You're right, I left out the $3 million. The point still stands. 8 figures for a guy projected to be a second rounder is a little high. Teams were selling first rounders for $3 million.

The point is a flawed one. We didn't buy the pick. We traded an expiring contract for a player Larry Brown begged for and a pick.

The point that anyone could be okay with paying close to $40 MM for Jalen Rose and Balkman is a flawed one. Isiah still screwed up on some level, whether the point was the pick or pleasing the coach. Either way it's flawed from day one.

[Edited by - Solace on 06-29-2006 4:50 PM]

Posted by nyballer:

I remember sprewell being picked late in the first round as a defensive specialist, so maybe there's hope for balkman.

they definitely have the same sort of explosive athletic ability from what i can tell... that would be sweet if he could develop into a Spree type player (w/o the attitude problems)

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Well we know that Phoenix had no intent on drafting Balkman becuase once Carney was picked at 16, Phoenix was out of the draft. Isiah has lied to the fans yet again.

yeah I kinda believed Isiah lastnight but from everything I've heard today from Phoenix and other GMs Isiah has lied to us yet again UNBELIEVABLE. I REALLY REALLY like Balkman but the thought of drafting Marcus at 20 & Balkman at 29 just depresses the hell out of me.

Is it possible that Mardy Collins turns out to be a better player than Marcus Williams?

With respect to grabbing a pass-first PG, we have so many NBA PGs on our roster that it's sick (never mind the fact that they're all Shoot First-Shoot Second). With roughly 40 million or so invested in Marbury/Francis/Nate/Crawford, we're seriously committed to trying to make things work for at least 1 of them.

Francis is actually a great combination with any of our other guards-- he's spent his entire college and NBA career playing with trigger happy wingmen that when Mobley was traded from Orlando last year, he didn't know what to do with himself! He'll get the other guard the ball enough for that other player to score 20ppg.

Marbury is exactly the opposite - he probably does best when his SG doesn't play any offense. He has always put up his best numbers when his SG isn't putting up much. If Balkman is truly a part of the plan, then he's suited perfectly for playing w/ Marbs.


One point about Balkman - I don't think it's a bad thing that he never averaged 10ppg. It's almost a good thing-- he's not going to come in thinking that he needs 30 touches and 12 shots per game to be productive. We're talking about a guy who shot nearly 61% from the field. Maybe he'll be along the lines of a Najera, Lynch, or even a Shane Battier in terms of productivity. We were looking for a role player, not a jackpot.

From what I understand, the Knicks got word that Phoenix wanted him, and we know their track record on scouting swingmen... (of course it could have beena smoke screen)

My 2nd point: If Balkman turns into a very good player (12ppg/6rpg/26mpg)... will people still say he's a bad value at #20? Certainly right now people can easily say Marcus Williams was supposed to be a lottery pick, that we could have drafted him then traded down... but sometimes you just have to pick the player you want.