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Knicks may buy out Larry Brown
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Bippity10
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5/14/2006  9:05 PM
holfresh: Do you honestly think I run from you for any reason. These websites aren't that important. I have a kid and a wife and spent a nice time in Cape Cod this weekend. Didn't hear the news until a few minutes ago. My question is why would anyone be afraid to come on this site for any reason? Who has that low self-esteem?

Bonn: You've been posting with me for a looooooooooooooooooong time. YOu have heard me preach the same things for at least 3 years now. And yet you still target me when a coach is fired thinking that that coach is my "favorite". Every year it's the same thing. Every year I say "bonn you are better than that". Now I'm starting to think I give you too much credit
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Vmart
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5/14/2006  9:07 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Awesome point DJ. Never thought of it that way but your right. As much as I dislike D'Antoni's system because I believe defense wins championships, coaches are coaches becuase they have a certain philosophy. I don't see anyone yelling about D'Antoni and saying how he's a bad coach becuase he wanted Marbury gone. Good post.


Did D'Antoni ever coach MArbury. I really don't recall Marbury playing under D'Antoni. Maybe I'm wrong.

Larry has been exposed people Hall of Fame coach yes but this year the Knicks exposed him and so did Detroit. Its alright if he goes because I don't think I could have taken another year of total instability and constant lineup changes he made.
Bippity10
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5/14/2006  9:10 PM
NY fans: You are being sold a bill of goods. Every year since 1999 we have gotten worse and more embarrassing. We have yet to establish the 3-5 year plan it will take to get out of this mess. Every 6 months we get a new name of someone that will turn us around. Everytime that new name is brought in we go ahead and predict wins, and buy tickets only to be disappointed by another miserable season. We will be angry and Dolan and our overpaid players will continue to line their pockets at your expense. 5 years later we will be in the exact same position, blaming someone else, pointing fingers and hoping we can finally get lucky and start winning.

Meanwhile lottery teams everywhere are building future juggernauts. Current winners are solidifying their core to win for another 4 or 5 years. We sit back and point fingers and blame and wait yet another season for our savior.

One day we will demand a change. And demand that this organization BUILD SOMETHING FOR ONCE. GET A GOSH DARN PLAN AND STICK TO IT. I don't care who the coach, GM or star player is at the time of that plan. Just get one and STICK TO IT.
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Killa4luv
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5/14/2006  9:15 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
I don't see anyone yelling about D'Antoni and saying how he's a bad coach becuase he wanted Marbury gone.
Is anyone saying the reason they want Brown gone is his issues with Marbury?

NO, not one person has said that here, but everything always boils down to Marb's with these guys. LB did this to himself and they can't handle it.
Bonn1997
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5/14/2006  9:16 PM
Bonn: You've been posting with me for a looooooooooooooooooong time. YOu have heard me preach the same things for at least 3 years now. And yet you still target me when a coach is fired thinking that that coach is my "favorite". Every year it's the same thing. Every year I say "bonn you are better than that". Now I'm starting to think I give you too much credit
Bip, I knew you were gonna have the reaction you posted about not caring one way or the other if Brown is the coach. I haven't seen anyone else support Brown more strongly than you do, though. (Or if you feel more comfortable calling it "supporting keeping Brown as coach," then fine.)

I agree with every single word you said about the organization, though. I'm no Isiah fan. I'm no Dolan fan. I'm no Cablevision fan. and I'm no Marbury fan. I think each of these (along with Brown) has been poisonous to the Knicks.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 05-14-2006 9:17 PM]
Bippity10
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5/14/2006  9:24 PM
Bonn: did I not defend Chaney and Lenny and Herb the exact same way. You've posted with me for 3 years now and have heard the same mantra. I am a coach and I know what it's like to coach against an ultimatum. And guess what things never turn out like they did in "Major League". I support coaches because I know that they need to be in charge or they can't win.

What you have been hoodwinked into thinking by this organization is that it's about individuals. I don't think this way.

Marbs-one of my least favorite Knicks ever yet I supported him vehemently when the fans blamed him

Allan Houston-I hated his style but knew what he meant to the direction we needed to go

Latrell-One of my favorites, bashed him repeatedly for rebelling against the coach.

Charlie Ward-favorite Knick of all time. Never made a post after he was traded.

For me, it ain't about the players or the coach. The names are irrelevant. For me it continues to be about the Knicks and for once going in a positive direction. I know that in order to do that we need a plan, with a coach that is here for the long haul. One day soon, maybe we might try that. NO?
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Bippity10
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5/14/2006  9:27 PM
Next year with Isiah as coach if things haven't turned around by say game 30 what do you think will happen? The fans will be screaming for his head. Around game 40 he will be fired and what will have changed with our organization? What would be the direction at that point.

From my point of view if Isiah is coach I will be on my knees praying for him. I will support him like I never supported anyone before. Because I don't think I can take anymore of this yearly soap opera.
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newyorknewyork
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5/14/2006  9:35 PM
I know I say that Larry Brown put these guys in position to fail on the court. But I must also admit that Larry Brown was put in a position to fail as well.

He should have just kept it cool though, instead of saying things to the public. That was his true downfall. He lost most of his team all on his own by that. Not because he asked them to play defense and they just didn't feel like it. Not because he asked them to play fundamental basketball and they didn't feel like it. But because they felt disrespected time and time again. Negative comments about your teams roster to the public is not coaching.

Larry Brown is the only one with a proven track record though. While I don't think I could trust any of these players to win down the road. I know if we got him what he needs we would be successfull. That still doesn't mean that he was good for us this season, and its all the players/Marbury's fault. But we should keep Brown and give him full power. Buying him out would be a bad move. I thought bringing in Larry Brown opened up a clear direction of where to go. If Isiah can't supply Brown with what he needs then fire Isiah. I mean doesn't Isiah know that Larry Brown could single handedly save him?? Isiah should be begging Dolan to keep Brown.
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Bippity10
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5/14/2006  9:39 PM
I agree. It just goes to show the lack of direction. Isiah hired LB in order to fit in to a five year plan. NOw we are deeming after 1 season that that plan is a failure. Okay so shouldn't that also mean Isiah's head? Logically it should. But because Dolan is doing it as a business move he will keep Isiah in order not to "waste" more money on a coach. Not becuase he actually has a plan for the next step to turn the organization around.

So if you see Isiah as coach next year it's not because we have direction, it's because Dolan wants to save some money. Whoopee!!!!! Great news. How long before he's buying out Isiah?

[Edited by - bippity10 on 05-14-2006 9:40 PM]
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Bonn1997
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5/14/2006  9:39 PM
What you have been hoodwinked into thinking by this organization is that it's about individuals. I don't think this way.
Not at all. The whole organization needs an overhauling. I just listed some of the key parts that need to go. Brown was one of them, but very low on the list. The highest is Cablevision and Dolan, which need to be replaced by a smart owner who cares about winning. Then you'll see everything else you're looking for ("a positive direction," "stability").
Bippity10
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5/14/2006  9:45 PM
The funny thing about NY is taht we don't even realize that we are playing into it. Instead of screaming for a direction. We instead scream about key parts that "need to go". Every year it's never about a positive direction, it's always about who's fault it is and "who needs to go". If we demand a change, a change will happen. If we sit here and accept it you will see more of the same.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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5/14/2006  9:48 PM
Dolan loves the savior principal because everytime he gets a new savior we make predictions buy tickets and stick more millions in his pocket. We are just as much to blame.
I just hope that people will like me
Killa4luv
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5/14/2006  9:51 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

one question to those about how lb should've adapted to the roster: did d'antoni adopt to his roster?

i ask this b/c d'antoni was hired to coach a certain system. he believed in the up tempo, pg controlled offense where he finds the open guy. he believed a system where if you're open, you take the shot. that was his offensive philosophy.

so did d'antoni adapt to marbury and penny who didn't want to play that system? no, he didn't. the team backed the coach and they traded steph + penny away. and after they were gone, did he change his philosophy for eisley and ward and barbosa who remained at the point? no, he just kept playing his system even if it meant they lost. they finished 21-40.

then the team went after the point guard d'antoni wanted. to the point where they overpaid market value for him. the rest is history.

coaches have a system. did d'antoni adapt to try to win more games with pheonix when he first got there? no he didn't. they were willing to take a hit and remove guys that he didn't want.

brown, time after time, has said he gave marbury more freedom than any other point guard he ever coached. he said he had to simplify the plays down and actually had to take over play calling duties b/c the team couldn't execute. he did adapt.

all the pr stuff, yes, it was not a good thing. he was too candid and handled the press completely wrong. i never backed him on that. but saying he is not flexible and stubborn, while other coaches do the same thing, well i don't buy it. b/c every single one of you guys would take d'antoni here in a second and the first thing he would do is ship out 1/2 the roster.
I would not be happy about d'antoni here, I don't like his style of basketball, although it is fun to watch. We don't have the personnel for that style, there are no shooters on our team and our bigs can't run.Its not the same, because the players we had, could have played well for Brown, I think Brown did a poor job in making that vision a reality, for reasons too obvious to state.
Bonn1997
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5/14/2006  9:54 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Dolan loves the savior principal because everytime he gets a new savior we make predictions buy tickets and stick more millions in his pocket. We are just as much to blame.
The organization won't change until people stop financially supporting it, which is the same thing as saying the organization will never change.

The closest analogy for the Brown firing I can think of here would be putting out the fire in one small room of a mansion where every room is on fire and leaving the rest to burn down: It would be *right* to put out the fire in that one small room, but still catastrophic to leave the rest of the house burning.
BlueSeats
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5/14/2006  10:20 PM
Posted by Rich:

A side benefit is that the draft would be interesting again, because if Larry stays they would likely trade their picks.

Right, cause larry "hates rookies."

Can someone please remind me of the rookies and sophomores Brown has traded in his career?

He's been on 8 teams over 30 years and this insinuation that he hates youth is sooo prevalent, I'm dying to see this list.
Bonn1997
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5/14/2006  10:27 PM
Coaches don't trade players; they bench them. GMs trade players.
Rich
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5/14/2006  10:31 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Rich:

A side benefit is that the draft would be interesting again, because if Larry stays they would likely trade their picks.

Right, cause larry "hates rookies."

Can someone please remind me of the rookies and sophomores Brown has traded in his career?

He's been on 8 teams over 30 years and this insinuation that he hates youth is sooo prevalent, I'm dying to see this list.

Why should anyone bother? He wouldn't give regular minutes to the Knicks' rookies. Intead, he played Malik Rose or Antonio Davis or some other old man who won't be on the team if and when they become good.
simrud
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5/14/2006  10:42 PM
Fuck the Knicks. If they really do this, I'm not going to root for them to loose every game until IT is gone.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Killa4luv
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5/14/2006  10:46 PM
Interesting how so many 'fans' stop rooting for the knicks because Brown will be gone. Great fans you guys are. If Steph was traded or bought out, I'd still follow him, and follow the Knicks. I am a Kncik fan first, I put no individual above the team.
simrud
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5/14/2006  10:47 PM
Its about being made fools of. IT is makin a fool out of NY fans. I arent puttin up with that. He thinks he can run the team into the ground, and get rid of people who dare stand up to him, he got another thign coming. I hope to see an empy garden next year.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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Knicks may buy out Larry Brown
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