Posted by BlueSeats:


I post this:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by Bippity10:

Again, get over it. Marbs aint a leader. He is not a cure for our problems. He is not a franchise player. He is never going to say the right thing. He slumps forward when he is in a good mood, so his body language becomes a horror show when he is upset. All this is true beyond a shadow of a doubt. I AM AGREEING WITH YOU. But he is not the reason for our record.

I gotta run, don't have time to do the topic justice. But this is a contradiction in terms. To think he's all that and that has no bearing on our record is naive, for lack of a better word (don't take it personally, I'm in a hurry), and to think all that does not impart itself on impressionable youth, or doesn't interfere with the coaching message, or, especially from the franchise guy, become a huge distraction to the team, is similarly naive, or whatever the right word is.

Now so long as Steph is our main guy here, we've got a rats arse of going places. If you can trade Steph to dump payroll to make a move for significant free agency or to get a nice player through the draft, or trade him for a guy with a better attitude who can contribute, i think you do it rather than trying to integrate this guy under the belief he's helping our cause.

I know the flaws of the rest of the roster and they get dealt with in other threads, but this is a Marbury thread, and this is where we look at his liabilities. Agreed, many changes need to be made to this team to be successful, but that does not preclude Marbury.

I'm not about our damn record, before the Curry trade I wanted us to bomb this year for a high pick. I'm looking at the future, and what we can do to ever surpass mediocrity. But we ain.t going nowhere with Steph acting like an anchor.

And you respond with this?

Posted by Bippity10:

But what you continue to miss over and over again is that noone on this team is a leader. Noone on this team is a franchise player, noone will say the right thing under the scrutiny that Marbs gets. The entire roster is flawed. I blame all the players, coach's and management for the losses. But that doesn't mean that I somehow have to believe that we can't win with one of them.

Again this is the same thing that was said about Ewing and Houston. It's very easy to forget.

You seem to be trying to average Steph in as though he isn't our team captain and franchise player and the guy in the forefront of not getting the coach and being a sullen jerk about it, and then chose to believe he has no negative effect on the team.

It's not about not being a leader. As you say, no one else is yet either. But there are guys who are neutral on leadership like Houston was, or perhaps now Frey and Jamal are, but that is opposed to Marbury, who is a negative leader.

Sometime in your coaching you may be faced with the challenge where your best player and captain is a kid who's been thrown out of prior schools and on your own team is the guy with the worst attitude, and who becomes a downer and a team distraction. I will be curious to learn how you handle it. Somehow I doubt you be validating his destructive patterns thinking it has no bearing on the rest of the team and their success.

Posted by YoungSpike:

Marbury is just the new knick that’s damned if he does damned if he don't. Ever since I have been watching the Knicks there has been a player the fans and the media just went after and blamed the teams woos on first it was Ewing, then Houston now Marbury. The funny thing is today people are mad at him because he played the way they want him to play, a bit to well (looked a lot like Eric Snow to me). If a few more of the shots he created went down and he got those foul calls Larry would have said he played a grate game win or lose.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by SlimPack:

perhaps at this point its pointless to say that, marbury has shown that he has the potential to be a larry brown like pg when he did it against the clippers, suns, and the pacers, when he had 25, 5, and 6, and that crawford had a 0 pt game before, and no one really made that big of a deal about it.

yeah but craw is such a nice guy.

Posted by Bippity10:

People keep saying that Allan and Patrick were different than Marbs. I agree with you 1000000000%. Which once again leads us full circle back to my original argument. If Patrick and Allan played so much harder and were so much more dedicated to winning than Marbs why did all three get the exact same treatment? Because they were the highest paid and the face of the franchise and we blamed them for our failures. End of story.

I'm sure you will go revisionist on me and say that they didn't. So let's just drop the argument right there.

Posted by BasketballJones:

Fans may be morons, but maybe they also expect a lot out of guys who are making millions of dollars a year. I don't think Houston was so maligned until he got the $100 million contract. Maybe things will improve when (if?) the organization stops over-overpaying its players.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by Bippity10:

Nope Blueseats for the 80th time you are wrong. I have said time and time again that Steph is not a leader and does not help our team win. I have said time and time again that I am not a fan. What I have been trying to say to you for 80 posts is that he is not the sole reason we are losing. We should not be singling him out when it is OUR TEAM that is flawed. I have played TEAM sports all my life and tend to find that the team is above one individual and when you focus all your attention on one individual good or bad it tends to create a circus atmosphere around the TEAM and gives other underachievers a chance to say "it's not my fault" it's his.

All fans care about is Marbury. If he is traded I DON'T CARE. But this will not turn this franchise around. The problem is you hate the guy so much that any defense, support or even a question raised that has a positive possibility as an answer you stop listening.

I don't know why you find it so amazing that I struggle to grasp your issues. One the one hand you seem to be acknowledging my criticisms of Steph, then asking why he's singled out.

First off, he's NOT singled out. do you read this board, do you not see every player taking lumps as well as LB and Isiah?

Second, the 'flaws' of other players are different than those of Steph. His are the most character oriented, which is magnified by his role and stature on the team and organization. It's like criticizing the coaching and having someone say "why all the blind hate toward LB and not all his assistants". Not an exact parralell, but try to take the point.

Unfortunately, I just see this "it's not all his fault' as a massive deflection for that which is his fault. And while other players have weaknesses which may hinder performance, Marbury's hinder team unity and spirit. It's a far greater offense. It's like asking why a guy is singled out for murder when the rest of the team are pick-pockets.

That you don't get that, indeed, does leave me confused, for the 81st time.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by Bippity10:

Nope Blueseats for the 80th time you are wrong. I have said time and time again that Steph is not a leader and does not help our team win. I have said time and time again that I am not a fan. What I have been trying to say to you for 80 posts is that he is not the sole reason we are losing. We should not be singling him out when it is OUR TEAM that is flawed. I have played TEAM sports all my life and tend to find that the team is above one individual and when you focus all your attention on one individual good or bad it tends to create a circus atmosphere around the TEAM and gives other underachievers a chance to say "it's not my fault" it's his.

All fans care about is Marbury. If he is traded I DON'T CARE. But this will not turn this franchise around. The problem is you hate the guy so much that any defense, support or even a question raised that has a positive possibility as an answer you stop listening.

I don't know why you find it so amazing that I struggle to grasp your issues. One the one hand you seem to be acknowledging my criticisms of Steph, then asking why he's singled out.

First off, he's NOT singled out. do you read this board, do you not see every player taking lumps as well as LB and Isiah?

Second, the 'flaws' of other players are different than those of Steph. His are the most character oriented, which is magnified by his role and stature on the team and organization. It's like criticizing the coaching and having someone say "why all the blind hate toward LB and not all his assistants". Not an exact parralell, but try to take the point.

Unfortunately, I just see this "it's not all his fault' as a massive deflection for that which is his fault. And while other players have weaknesses which may hinder performance, Marbury's hinder team unity and spirit. It's a far greater offense. It's like asking why a guy is singled out for murder when the rest of the team are pick-pockets.

That you don't get that, indeed, does leave me confused, for the 81st time.