Posted by McK1:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Bippity10:

How are SAR and Frye's game anything alike? I guess I'm missing the comparison.

You can draft for 15 years and just come away with complimentary players. There are no guarntees anywhere. Chicago rebuilt for what 6 years? And they still aren't an elite team. And who is the star they are building around? They have a team of "complimentary players". Atlanta, the Clips. There are no guarantees to going into the lottery. All you are doing is what we are doing, going after young players and crossing your fingers.



[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-12-2005 1:23 PM]

chicago is not an example of teams drafting to no avail

If dumb ass Krause doesn't trade away Brand and Artest they have 2 of the top 10 players in the league right now. No telling where that team might've been.

Think about the length of time it has taken them. Think about the amount of picks they have used and had to dump. They are just starting to see progress now. Jordan retired from them in 1999. It is soon to be 2006 and they still aren't championship caliber. Do you think fans here would be willing to wait from 2004 until 2010 to still be a mediocre team with some upside? No guys like Isles would still be calling for the GM's head, just for different reasons............as for Brand and ARtest you can't make the right choices all the time. That's why rebuilding is so tough. They all make the same mistakes

the Paxson regime:

Paxson after his first season dumping Crawford and penciling in Gordon as the designated trigger at guard resulted in a 24 game improvement. So far they are 10-9 w/o Curry, which is a much better start than they had last-season. Thing is thanks to trading Curry, they have 20 mill in capspace this coming summer and a lot of young growing talent to entice free-agents over the next 2 years to come play there with. Plus they have 2 firsts next year to keep adding talent or dangle as trade bait.

Krause's 4 years of mismanagement totally reversed in 1 1/2.



[Edited by - McK1 on 12-12-2005 1:54 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

We could have held on to them all. Still be watching Spoon and Eisley and charlie and KT and Othella. Wait another year and a half from today for the contracts to run out. And then start our 6 years of rebuilding from there.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by McK1:

Most here are celebrting 6-13 b/c we played the Suns and Clips tough

NY is entering yr 6 of mediocrity. Unlike Chicago, we don't have a ton of draft picks and a ton of capspace to use in getting to that next level

jury is still out on the long-term viability of Eddy Curry. Heart problems, weight issues haven't been solved yet. Not saying I hope he keels over but still Reggie Lewis was fine at first and he was inmuch better shape than Curry.

Chicago clearly had the wrong guy calling the shots. In hindsight he should've retired with Mike. NY clearly had the wrong guy calling the shots. In hindsight he should've never got the job.

Diff for those 2 orgs directions,

1 gm changed course from the prior regime and

* settled on a coach from the outset

* looked to add picks and be a player in free agency from the outset

the other started out very Layden-lite in his approach. 33 wins only opened 1 eye b/4 h traded more picks for Curry, whose long-term viability is still in question. I don't want to see anything bad happen to him but his heart and weight issues still follow him. Lewis RIP was fine at first and he was a much better conditioned athlete.

[Edited by - McK1 on 12-12-2005 2:19 PM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 12-12-2005 2:19 PM]

A) No one here is celebrating the results so far, but a lot of people are saying they are encouraged by some of the young players we have and the way they have been playing.
B) We made the conference Finals in 2000. That same team got knocked out in the first round in 2001 thanks to an awful tragedy in the Camby family. JVG quit in 2001-2 when the team was 10-9 aka where Chicago is now, and after that season the Camby nucleus was blown up in a short-sighted trade. We didn't enter rebuilding mode until Dyess blew out his knee in fall 2002. That was three years ago.

from 00-01 season to now, the Knicks have been mediocre to poor.

00-01, 01-02, 02-03, 03-04, 04-05, 05-06

yr 6 of mediocrity

losing to TDot in the first round was the stamp NY's run was over.

[Edited by - McK1 on 12-12-2005 2:38 PM]

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by islesfan:

2 years ago I said Isiah was going to bring us to the depths of mediocrity for years to come and so far he's done nothing to dispute that. He continues to bring in flawed players at ridiculous costs in terms of draft picks and money that will sink us deeper and deeper in the abyss.

what did you expect him to do? he didnt have a lot to work with. the trade was made for steph when AH was still healthy, and we were trying to win now while Houston's knees were still good. isiah has a plan(thats kinda dumb to say a GM doesnt have a plan since thats their job), its ok if you dont see it, but it seems like you just hate isiah no matter what he does(and your view of him just reinforces that).

I expected him to tear it down and build it back up with lottery picks and cap room starting next year. We've been through 3 crap years already so what would have been the difference in terms of wins and losses? Of course he had assets to work with. He had every #1 pick, expiring contracts and Dolan's checkbook to take back as many bad contracts as possible as long as they end sooner rather than later the way he did. God forbid he should plan for the future instead of sacrificing everything he has for the present. And by future I mean top draft picks that you can build a franchise around and not flawed players who were drafted late or not at all but given burn because we have nothing else.

okay, say we didn't make the Marbury trade in '04. Assuming we got around the 6th pick in the lotto or so, who would you have taken? that was a weak draft after the top two picks.

Posted by Allanfan20:

I think we did need to rebuild. Clearly, we especially needed Houston or Spree to be traded. We needed all of those picks we had to get ourselves a Ron Artest (Which we already had our shot in the first place) and a tony parker, all those guys. But we traded them for halfway decent backups. All of them, for Harrington, Jackson, Strickland, McDyess, and Marbury. Just remember, when Isiah first took over, he said the team was NOT rebuilding. He made it very clear. If the team was, they would have just kept the picks, shut down Houston and ride on Van Horn and Frank Williams and hoped that we could have been bad enough to get Howard or Okafor. Heck, even dating back to last year, when we won those games at the end of the season when we weren't even making the playoffs. We lost our shot for the #1. That doesn't matter though, b/c I'm happy with Frye... but the point is....

We should have started rebuilding the absolute INSTANT we traded Ewing. But when you trade picks for mediocre talent and then finally, make a run for the playoffs, barely get in, and advertise that as a learning experience for the youngin's, and then eventually trade them, that's not rebuilding. If we rebuilt the instant we traded Ewing, I have a pretty good feeling we'd be a pretty good team by now, if we played our cards correctly. But we didn't. We are rebuilding NOW, and it could take a year, 2 years or maybe longer before we sniff being a contender.