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TMS
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8/20/2008  3:52 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Why is a steaky .800 OPS guy worth more than a #2 pitcher?

Jacoby Ellsbury is a career .754 OPS guy... do u really think the Red Sox would trade him for anything less than an established ace? Hunter Pence is a career .828 OPS guy... go ask the Astros if they'd be willing to unload him for anything less than an ace... ain't happening.

u focus way too much on stats & don't consider other factors... as much as u might not like the guy, the fact remains that Cano is a hugely valuable commodity & selling low on him now would be a ridiculously idiotic thing to do IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 08-15-2008 3:27 PM]
At best that's an incomplete argument. At least state what other factors I should be considering but am not (according to you). I agree that now is not the time to trade Cano, though. I never said it was.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-17-2008 3:45 PM]

didn't think it needed to be explained but since u asked, how about considering factors like already demonstrated topside potential by Cano, his age, the position he plays, his defensive prowess... or are these completely meaningless things to consider when it comes to those all important statistics? u said the guy is not worth anything more than a #2 or #3 pitcher in a trade... that's ridiculous.

I did consider those things and I said he IS worth more than a #3 pitcher. I don't know where you're getting your ideas from.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-20-2008 06:05 AM]

i can't imagine where either.
Posted by Bonn1997:

Cano basically is an .800 OPS guy career wise. I'd easily trade him for a #2 pitcher. #3? I'm not sure. Probably not.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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Bonn1997
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8/20/2008  3:54 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Why is a steaky .800 OPS guy worth more than a #2 pitcher?

Jacoby Ellsbury is a career .754 OPS guy... do u really think the Red Sox would trade him for anything less than an established ace? Hunter Pence is a career .828 OPS guy... go ask the Astros if they'd be willing to unload him for anything less than an ace... ain't happening.

u focus way too much on stats & don't consider other factors... as much as u might not like the guy, the fact remains that Cano is a hugely valuable commodity & selling low on him now would be a ridiculously idiotic thing to do IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 08-15-2008 3:27 PM]
At best that's an incomplete argument. At least state what other factors I should be considering but am not (according to you). I agree that now is not the time to trade Cano, though. I never said it was.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-17-2008 3:45 PM]

didn't think it needed to be explained but since u asked, how about considering factors like already demonstrated topside potential by Cano, his age, the position he plays, his defensive prowess... or are these completely meaningless things to consider when it comes to those all important statistics? u said the guy is not worth anything more than a #2 or #3 pitcher in a trade... that's ridiculous.

I did consider those things and I said he IS worth more than a #3 pitcher. I don't know where you're getting your ideas from.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-20-2008 06:05 AM]

i can't imagine where either.
Posted by Bonn1997:

Cano basically is an .800 OPS guy career wise. I'd easily trade him for a #2 pitcher. #3? I'm not sure. Probably not.
Do you know what the word "not" means?
TMS
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8/20/2008  4:04 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

But Cashman's the one who brought "the fat" that needs to be trimmed. Cashman was given the freedom to spend more on a team than any other GM in the history of the game and now they're in danger of finishing fourth in their division. FOURTH!

he changed philosophies 2 summers ago. no long terms deals handed out except to arod, jorge (which was a mistake) and mariano. 2 are the best in their positions. and 1 is a top notch one at catcher.

but no other long term starphuck deals. and he dealt for nady (a paul o'neill/matsui type of guy) and a lefty in marte.

considering the yanks are on pace to score 1 less run a game than last season, and considering how GOOD our staff has performed after injuries to wang/hughes, cashman actually did a really good job this year. offseason will be really interesting...
Does $30 mil for half a season for Roger Clemens not count as a starphuck deal? If Hughes was going to continue pitching like he had, then his injury HELPED the team. To me, it looks like you and TMS have an excuse for everything for Cashman. He's got the most expensive team in MLB history and, forget fourth, the team may finish dead last in the division. You're right there have been pitching injuries but you also have to take into account that Andy and Moose will combine at this rate for about twelve more wins than last year, and we're still on pace to miss the playoffs by about 7 games. We have no way of knowing if he did change philosophies 2 years ago (your statement is a hypothesis), but he deserves no leniency for going back and forth in philosophies if he did. Otherwise, all GMs should state a new philosophy after every bad season.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-20-2008 3:53 PM]

gimme a freakin break w/this again... fans that have latched onto this team in '96 like you probably have really shouldn't talk about what realistic expectations are... u want a WS championship every 4 or 5 years... baseball doesn't work that way... there will be times where u go through a decade or so of struggles & then there will be those times where u build a dynasty & string off a few years in a row of championships... & then there will be times where the team will win games but still won't win in the postseason... that's been the Yankees' history since they became an MLB franchise... before we won in '96 we had a championships dryspell of 18 years... if ur complaining about the past 7 years so much now i don't think there's any way you woulda made it through that stretch... i've told u time & time again u can't buy championships & yet u still latch onto the payroll argument... so now all of a sudden instead of championships it's not finishing in 4th place that has you worked up, as if that counts for anything... who the hell cares if they finish in last or in 3rd just out of the playoff hunt? they should be making the playoffs this year w/the roster they have... that's not on Cashman dude... that's due to some key injuries that have plagued this roster all year & the underperformance of a couple other players... but i'm sure Johan would have had this team in the playoffs if they'd have made that trade, right? it's all Cashman's fault cuz he passed up on the Johan deal that u wanted... u know more about building championship teams & baseball than Cashman does... i get it now... how foolish of me to have ever doubted you.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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8/20/2008  4:05 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Why is a steaky .800 OPS guy worth more than a #2 pitcher?

Jacoby Ellsbury is a career .754 OPS guy... do u really think the Red Sox would trade him for anything less than an established ace? Hunter Pence is a career .828 OPS guy... go ask the Astros if they'd be willing to unload him for anything less than an ace... ain't happening.

u focus way too much on stats & don't consider other factors... as much as u might not like the guy, the fact remains that Cano is a hugely valuable commodity & selling low on him now would be a ridiculously idiotic thing to do IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 08-15-2008 3:27 PM]
At best that's an incomplete argument. At least state what other factors I should be considering but am not (according to you). I agree that now is not the time to trade Cano, though. I never said it was.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-17-2008 3:45 PM]

didn't think it needed to be explained but since u asked, how about considering factors like already demonstrated topside potential by Cano, his age, the position he plays, his defensive prowess... or are these completely meaningless things to consider when it comes to those all important statistics? u said the guy is not worth anything more than a #2 or #3 pitcher in a trade... that's ridiculous.

I did consider those things and I said he IS worth more than a #3 pitcher. I don't know where you're getting your ideas from.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-20-2008 06:05 AM]

i can't imagine where either.
Posted by Bonn1997:

Cano basically is an .800 OPS guy career wise. I'd easily trade him for a #2 pitcher. #3? I'm not sure. Probably not.
Do you know what the word "not" means?

do you know what the words "Trading Cano for a #2 pitcher would be an idiotic move to make" means?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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8/20/2008  4:56 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Why is a steaky .800 OPS guy worth more than a #2 pitcher?

Jacoby Ellsbury is a career .754 OPS guy... do u really think the Red Sox would trade him for anything less than an established ace? Hunter Pence is a career .828 OPS guy... go ask the Astros if they'd be willing to unload him for anything less than an ace... ain't happening.

u focus way too much on stats & don't consider other factors... as much as u might not like the guy, the fact remains that Cano is a hugely valuable commodity & selling low on him now would be a ridiculously idiotic thing to do IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 08-15-2008 3:27 PM]
At best that's an incomplete argument. At least state what other factors I should be considering but am not (according to you). I agree that now is not the time to trade Cano, though. I never said it was.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-17-2008 3:45 PM]

didn't think it needed to be explained but since u asked, how about considering factors like already demonstrated topside potential by Cano, his age, the position he plays, his defensive prowess... or are these completely meaningless things to consider when it comes to those all important statistics? u said the guy is not worth anything more than a #2 or #3 pitcher in a trade... that's ridiculous.

I did consider those things and I said he IS worth more than a #3 pitcher. I don't know where you're getting your ideas from.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-20-2008 06:05 AM]

i can't imagine where either.
Posted by Bonn1997:

Cano basically is an .800 OPS guy career wise. I'd easily trade him for a #2 pitcher. #3? I'm not sure. Probably not.
Do you know what the word "not" means?

do you know what the words "Trading Cano for a #2 pitcher would be an idiotic move to make" means?

Yes, they mean you're backing off your claim that I said he should be traded for a #3 pitcher.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-20-2008 4:59 PM]
TMS
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8/25/2008  9:12 PM
Make it or break it Homestand coming up... 5 games out of the WC, w/BOS & the Jays coming up in a huge homestand... we need to take at least 2 out of 3 from BOS & 2 out of 3 or a sweep of TOR to have a realistic shot at making the postseason this year... basically we need to win at least 4 of the next 6 games. I still haven't lost hope for this team.

LET'S GO YANKEES!
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GKFv2
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8/26/2008  11:24 PM
Gay-Rod coming through in the clutch yet again.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
TMS
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8/27/2008  1:11 AM
Posted by GKFv2:

Gay-Rod coming through in the clutch yet again.

yeah i can't believe how bad a job he did of pitching today... ARod needs to be traded immediately.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
GKFv2
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8/27/2008  1:44 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by GKFv2:

Gay-Rod coming through in the clutch yet again.

yeah i can't believe how bad a job he did of pitching today... ARod needs to be traded immediately.

A-Rod's job isn't to pitch, it's to hit. What's his average with RISP this season? Under .250. The previous seasons? Probably not much better. For a who is getting $300 million over 10 years, I'd expect more from him.

Alex Rodriquez is a loser. He's a stat-whore and nothing more.

What does $300 million get you? 0-5 tonight with 2 K's, 2 DP's, and an error.

[Edited by - gkfv2 on 08-27-2008 01:44 AM]
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
TMS
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8/27/2008  1:51 AM
i ain't denying ARod's been horrible in the clutch... i just get a kick outta everyone who blames him for every loss as if there weren't other more significant factors that played a role in the outcome of the game.
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Bonn1997
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8/27/2008  2:31 AM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by GKFv2:

Gay-Rod coming through in the clutch yet again.

yeah i can't believe how bad a job he did of pitching today... ARod needs to be traded immediately.

A-Rod's job isn't to pitch, it's to hit. What's his average with RISP this season? Under .250. The previous seasons? Probably not much better.
.333 last year. .302 the prior year. Then .290. Numbers will small sample sizes vary more. I don't make anything out of the # this year, except that recently he might be putting too much pressure on himself with RISP.

GKFv2
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8/27/2008  2:47 AM
I should have said the playoffs. That's where it counts even more.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
Bonn1997
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8/27/2008  3:07 AM
That's an even smaller sample of 94 total at bats in his Yankee career and if you're talking about RISP, of probably around 25 at bats.
Allanfan20
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8/27/2008  8:58 AM
He doesn't hit in the playoffsm as a Yankee. With or without runners. I don't need stats to tell me that.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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8/27/2008  9:11 AM
No one's arguing that he's been bad in the small sample of playoff at bats he's had as a Yankee. The issue is whether 94 at bats are enough to reach the conclusions that nearly every Yankee fan has about him. I think it's part of human nature to be impatient and want answers rather than tolerate ambiguity. However, I wouldn't reach any major conclusions about someone from 94 regular season at bats and I see no reason not to apply that standard to the playoffs too.
Allanfan20
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8/27/2008  1:03 PM
Bonn, you're taking the stats arguement to a whole new level. And I know you're definitely into statistics since you're into psychology, and I can't say that's bad, especially considering that I used to be a psych major.

However, the point I'm trying to make is that he's not hitting in important situations. Whether he's putting too much pressure on himself, or if he is soft. It doesn't matter because there is no excuse for it. He doesn't help this team that much when the games are close at any point during the game and it's gotton so bad that NOW, he can't even hit with RISP. Not only is he not playing like a superstar in these situations, but he's not even playing like any top tier player.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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8/27/2008  1:35 PM
My point is it may not be anything about A-Rod but rather just a random statistical occurence that has not future predictive validity. It's hardly fair to blame someone for random statistical variability in their performance. He could just as easily return today to the .332 hitter with RISP that he was last year.
TMS
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8/27/2008  3:17 PM
we gotta take the next 2 to have any chance of making the postseason this year IMO.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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8/27/2008  9:50 PM
i don't wanna hear ARod this or ARod that anymore... this entire team is gutless... from Jeter on down to ARod on down to Pudge on down to Jose Molina on down to Xavier Nady on down to Edwar Ramirez & on down the line... we went into this series knowing we had to win at least 2 of 3 w/even the MGR saying as much, & they laid down like dogs... not even a whimper of a comeback being shown by this team... i'm completely & utterly disgusted.

i wanna see huge changes in the offseason, starting w/Giambi being replaced by Texeiria on the roster, & CC Sabathia being added to the rotation.
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TMS
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8/27/2008  9:59 PM
GUTLESS HACKS!!! ALL OF EM!
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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