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TMS
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8/15/2008  6:26 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Why is a steaky .800 OPS guy worth more than a #2 pitcher?

Jacoby Ellsbury is a career .754 OPS guy... do u really think the Red Sox would trade him for anything less than an established ace? Hunter Pence is a career .828 OPS guy... go ask the Astros if they'd be willing to unload him for anything less than an ace... ain't happening.

u focus way too much on stats & don't consider other factors... as much as u might not like the guy, the fact remains that Cano is a hugely valuable commodity & selling low on him now would be a ridiculously idiotic thing to do IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 08-15-2008 3:27 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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Finestrg
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8/15/2008  9:50 PM
What's everybody think of Melky being shipped down to the minors? Had to do it. He was becoming an automatic out up there. Brett Gardner back up. Still looks like he's having trouble at the plate but man the kid is quick, can cover ground in center and showed a nice arm nailing a Royal at home by about 8 ft. just now. I hope he starts hitting, even a little - just slap some singles and get on. Great wheels. Hopefully those nice plays in the field just now get him going at the plate. He could really help us.

Richie Sexson got released. Very puzzling what happened to this guy. If it's not the result of steriods we're talking about here, the only other major leaguer that I can remember completely falling apart at the seams like this for no apparent reason was Carlos Baerga when the Mets picked him up - and even he wasn't that bad. Really shocking. This was a 45 HR guy only a few seasons ago. Now he can't even make contact.

Anyone see a similarity stuff-wise between Phil Hughes (injury-free with his normal velocity) and Gil Meche? Both throw a pin-straight fastball 92-96 mph with good control, both feature a knuckle curve in the mid-70s (think Hughes' hook is actually a little slower), mid-80s sliders kinda on the b-line and decent changeups - Hughes hasn't really featured his change in the majors so far but I read that he did get a guy from Pawtucket to pop out the other night after throwing him 3 straight changeups in a row and Meche just stuck out Nady on 3 straight changeups. I wonder if Hughes' ceiling is Gil Meche? I wonder if that's what we can expect, best case scenario?


[Edited by - finestrg on 08-15-2008 10:46 PM]
djsunyc
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8/16/2008  12:09 AM
tonight was the end...
djsunyc
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8/16/2008  12:18 AM
i don't think most yankee fans are ready for this and i fear their end of the world reactions.

this was a transition season. the organization has made a philosophical change. and i think they will continue on it. they knew it as well. the nady/marte deal was more for next year than it was for this year. hank was already talking about next season as well. they knew...
nyk4ever
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8/16/2008  11:21 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

i don't think most yankee fans are ready for this and i fear their end of the world reactions.

this was a transition season. the organization has made a philosophical change. and i think they will continue on it. they knew it as well. the nady/marte deal was more for next year than it was for this year. hank was already talking about next season as well. they knew...

Transition into what? This team is littered with old-players who are all breaking down. Plus aside from Joba and Hughes(who has struggled himself, but I am still high on) what quality young players are there on this team? The new ownership has also shown that they don't want to spend as much money as they have in the past.

I don't think this is a transition year, I think this is the start of bad run.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nyk4ever
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8/16/2008  4:37 PM
2-2 Botthom of the 9th inning, runners on 1st and second, no outs, Damon up at bat, team has lost 7 of the last 10 games and is 7 games out of the wildcard.

You would think Girardi would have the sense to have his LEADOFF batter bunt, to move the runners up and Damon is the kind of bunter that could even get a hit out of it... but NO. Damon strikes out, Jeter grounds into ANOTHER DP.

Just another example of Girardi's inability to manage the game correctly.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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8/16/2008  6:52 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by djsunyc:

i don't think most yankee fans are ready for this and i fear their end of the world reactions.

this was a transition season. the organization has made a philosophical change. and i think they will continue on it. they knew it as well. the nady/marte deal was more for next year than it was for this year. hank was already talking about next season as well. they knew...

Transition into what? This team is littered with old-players who are all breaking down. Plus aside from Joba and Hughes(who has struggled himself, but I am still high on) what quality young players are there on this team? The new ownership has also shown that they don't want to spend as much money as they have in the past.

I don't think this is a transition year, I think this is the start of bad run.

joba + hughes (not even 1 major league season) + kennedy (only his 2nd year in the minors) + veras + edwar + robertson + melancon + cox

they have ALOT of pitchers coming up. can't judge these guys right now...give them a few years. that's the transition - they haven't traded any of their top flight pitchers.

giambi - gone.
abreu - probably gone.

the nady + marte deal was more about next year than this one - letting them get rid of one of their OF's.

it takes time to shift away from starphucking and i see the yankees trying to do it now.
djsunyc
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8/16/2008  7:49 PM
arod's #'s:

avg: .311
w/ runners on: .267
w/ RISP: .239
w/ RISP & 2 out: .220
w/ bases loaded: .143
Allanfan20
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8/16/2008  9:48 PM
Those numbers say that when it really counts, arod is horrible at the plate, but when there's no pressure, he's the best player this world has ever seen.

Quite frustrating.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
nyk4ever
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8/17/2008  12:24 AM
Joe Maddon disciplined B.J. Upton for the second time this season when the Rays manager removed his center fielder from the game for lack of hustle on an inning-ending double play on Friday night.

The Rays are struggling to hold onto 1st place with a lack of players because they've had a devastating amount of injuries recently, yet he can bench his teams best player for not hustling and Girardi continues to watch Cano walk out of the box and play nonchalant defense day after day.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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8/17/2008  3:00 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Why is a steaky .800 OPS guy worth more than a #2 pitcher?

Jacoby Ellsbury is a career .754 OPS guy... do u really think the Red Sox would trade him for anything less than an established ace? Hunter Pence is a career .828 OPS guy... go ask the Astros if they'd be willing to unload him for anything less than an ace... ain't happening.

u focus way too much on stats & don't consider other factors... as much as u might not like the guy, the fact remains that Cano is a hugely valuable commodity & selling low on him now would be a ridiculously idiotic thing to do IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 08-15-2008 3:27 PM]
At best that's an incomplete argument. At least state what other factors I should be considering but am not (according to you). I agree that now is not the time to trade Cano, though. I never said it was.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-17-2008 3:45 PM]
Finestrg
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8/19/2008  2:35 PM
Gerrit Cole doesn't sign with the Yankees. He and his dad say it wasn't about the money and was never about the money. He just decided he wanted to go to college (I think he's committed to playing for UCLA).

WTF???? What the hell is that? The kid and his dad are supposedly huge Yankees fans (I read he was actually allowed in the Yankees clubhouse during one game of the 2001 World Series and hung out with some of the players), he declares for the draft, is picked by his favorite team (to most, a dream come true) then out of the blue decides he wants to go to college? And forgo a signing bonus that was said to be anywhere in the 2-4 million dollar range? I can't believe this.

Bad move on this kid's part here. I'm not saying college isn't important, it is for most people - opportunity to go to school, mature and get yourself ready to start a career. Like I said, that's the plan for most people. This kid isn't "most people" however. 17 year old kid with a 98 mph fastball and a huge upside and big potential to be a ML baseball player one day. None of you can say that probably. I sure as hell can't say that. Now suppose this kid goes to play at UCLA and gets hurt? Then what? Remember Brien Taylor - well at least he committed to the Yankees and got his signing bonus before he got hurt. Or suppose he goes to college and doesn't perform as expected? Is that worth losing out on 2-4 million guaranteed? Bad move on this kid's part if you ask me - for a guy with extrodinary talent like he has, to not capitalize on it when given an opportunity to boggles my mind to no end. The Yankees would've picked up the tab if and whenever this kid ever wanted to go to school (say in the event that he was injuried) - that stuff's usually worked out in these type of contracts. Kid's taking a big risk if you ask me. And it's a terrible day for us - with big uncertainty involved in a lot of our young pitchers from Brackman on down, a lot of which are coming off TJ surgery, this kid was a welcome addition. Now he's gone just like that. I hope to God Boras didn't screw this up somehow. I just don't see how Cole and his father just completely change their tune like that....
Bonn1997
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8/19/2008  9:53 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Those numbers say that when it really counts, arod is horrible at the plate, but when there's no pressure, he's the best player this world has ever seen.

Quite frustrating.

What does RISP have to do with when it "really counts"? DJ never answered that either. You can have RISP in clutch or in meaningless situations.
djsunyc
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8/19/2008  9:53 PM
man...johnny damon dropping 2 fly balls and arod choking it up...

i don't blame cashman here at all. just need to trim the fat this offseason. starting with giambi...
Bonn1997
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8/19/2008  9:57 PM
But Cashman's the one who brought "the fat" that needs to be trimmed. Cashman was given the freedom to spend more on a team than any other GM in the history of the game and now they're in danger of finishing fourth in their division. FOURTH!

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-19-2008 10:01 PM]
TMS
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8/20/2008  4:13 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Why is a steaky .800 OPS guy worth more than a #2 pitcher?

Jacoby Ellsbury is a career .754 OPS guy... do u really think the Red Sox would trade him for anything less than an established ace? Hunter Pence is a career .828 OPS guy... go ask the Astros if they'd be willing to unload him for anything less than an ace... ain't happening.

u focus way too much on stats & don't consider other factors... as much as u might not like the guy, the fact remains that Cano is a hugely valuable commodity & selling low on him now would be a ridiculously idiotic thing to do IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 08-15-2008 3:27 PM]
At best that's an incomplete argument. At least state what other factors I should be considering but am not (according to you). I agree that now is not the time to trade Cano, though. I never said it was.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-17-2008 3:45 PM]

didn't think it needed to be explained but since u asked, how about considering factors like already demonstrated topside potential by Cano, his age, the position he plays, his defensive prowess... or are these completely meaningless things to consider when it comes to those all important statistics? u said the guy is not worth anything more than a #2 or #3 pitcher in a trade... that's ridiculous.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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8/20/2008  6:03 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Why is a steaky .800 OPS guy worth more than a #2 pitcher?

Jacoby Ellsbury is a career .754 OPS guy... do u really think the Red Sox would trade him for anything less than an established ace? Hunter Pence is a career .828 OPS guy... go ask the Astros if they'd be willing to unload him for anything less than an ace... ain't happening.

u focus way too much on stats & don't consider other factors... as much as u might not like the guy, the fact remains that Cano is a hugely valuable commodity & selling low on him now would be a ridiculously idiotic thing to do IMO.

[Edited by - TMS on 08-15-2008 3:27 PM]
At best that's an incomplete argument. At least state what other factors I should be considering but am not (according to you). I agree that now is not the time to trade Cano, though. I never said it was.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-17-2008 3:45 PM]

didn't think it needed to be explained but since u asked, how about considering factors like already demonstrated topside potential by Cano, his age, the position he plays, his defensive prowess... or are these completely meaningless things to consider when it comes to those all important statistics? u said the guy is not worth anything more than a #2 or #3 pitcher in a trade... that's ridiculous.

I did consider those things and I said he IS worth more than a #3 pitcher. I don't know where you're getting your ideas from.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-20-2008 06:05 AM]
djsunyc
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8/20/2008  12:18 PM
our material boy...
Bases empty: .353 avg., 19 HRs/30 strikeouts in 190 AB
Runners on base: .276, 9 HR/54 strikeouts in 196 ABs
Runners in scoring position: .254 avg
RISP W/2 outs: .250 avg.
Bases loaded: .125 avg.
8th inning: .200 avg., 1 RBI
9th inning: .233 avg., 1 RBI
When the Yanks are ahead or behind by more than 4 runs: .426 avg. (yep, .426) with 7 HRs and 17 RBIs in 54 ABs.
7th inning or later with the Yankees tied, ahead by one, or the tying run at least on deck ("late and close," as Baseball Reference puts it): .236 avg., 2 HRs, 7 RBI, 2 GIDP and 17Ks in 55 ABs.
djsunyc
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8/20/2008  12:20 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

But Cashman's the one who brought "the fat" that needs to be trimmed. Cashman was given the freedom to spend more on a team than any other GM in the history of the game and now they're in danger of finishing fourth in their division. FOURTH!

he changed philosophies 2 summers ago. no long terms deals handed out except to arod, jorge (which was a mistake) and mariano. 2 are the best in their positions. and 1 is a top notch one at catcher.

but no other long term starphuck deals. and he dealt for nady (a paul o'neill/matsui type of guy) and a lefty in marte.

considering the yanks are on pace to score 1 less run a game than last season, and considering how GOOD our staff has performed after injuries to wang/hughes, cashman actually did a really good job this year. offseason will be really interesting...
Bonn1997
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8/20/2008  3:51 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

But Cashman's the one who brought "the fat" that needs to be trimmed. Cashman was given the freedom to spend more on a team than any other GM in the history of the game and now they're in danger of finishing fourth in their division. FOURTH!

he changed philosophies 2 summers ago. no long terms deals handed out except to arod, jorge (which was a mistake) and mariano. 2 are the best in their positions. and 1 is a top notch one at catcher.

but no other long term starphuck deals. and he dealt for nady (a paul o'neill/matsui type of guy) and a lefty in marte.

considering the yanks are on pace to score 1 less run a game than last season, and considering how GOOD our staff has performed after injuries to wang/hughes, cashman actually did a really good job this year. offseason will be really interesting...
Does $30 mil for half a season for Roger Clemens not count as a starphuck deal? If Hughes was going to continue pitching like he had, then his injury HELPED the team. To me, it looks like you and TMS have an excuse for everything for Cashman. He's got the most expensive team in MLB history and, forget fourth, the team may finish dead last in the division. You're right there have been pitching injuries but you also have to take into account that Andy and Moose will combine at this rate for about twelve more wins than last year, and we're still on pace to miss the playoffs by about 7 games. We have no way of knowing if he did change philosophies 2 years ago (your statement is a hypothesis), but he deserves no leniency for going back and forth in philosophies if he did. Otherwise, all GMs should state a new philosophy after every bad season.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 08-20-2008 3:53 PM]
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