ToddTT wrote:

Jaja

Knicksfan wrote:This is a funny situation:

For the past few seasons and more so this year, we have all been very critical of coach Thibs. His in-game adjustments, his stubbornness, his over reliance on the starters, his lack of in-game playing time for the kids, his poor offensive strategies, his outdated defensive strategies along with other details, Thibs has been heavily scrutinized. And rightfully so, as this team is primed with its best shot at a title in forever.

The Knicks decide to part ways with him after a very successful season, but one where all the weaknesses of Thibs kept showing up. This decision seems to have been made with the resolution that we needed a different voice. This decision was made by one of the better connected people in the league, Leon Rose, who definitely knew that if he searched through the many coaches in the league, whether recently fired, employed with little security or an assistant currently, he would find his guy. But a responsible franchise does a thorough search. And despite the toxic ideas spread around the league where a team still playing in the playoffs should have a deal under the table with another coach, the right thing to do once you decide to part ways with your current coach is to take your time and search the right way.

I can understand the media sticking to the rhetoric that the Knicks are a mess, because it generated them lots of clicks and ratings in past years, but this is a very different management. How do some of you keep believing the media crap is mind boggling to me. Thibs is a very good coach and he did great things here, but the league has changed a lot and the Knicks have realized that for now and for long term, they need a different voice more in line with the new league.

In the end, the next hiring will probably not look immediately sexy to many, but if the Knicks do this process right, we will reap the benefits with a roster that is ready to take that final step forward. Let Rose cook.

Media clicks into the fans emotions and thus not rational.
Also most have a propensity to be attracted to the negative aspects.
not all media is the same quality so lets not lump them all.

Many that harped on Thibs "stubbornness" or his wearing down the player are now saying Knicks "don't have a plan".
The susceptible fan takes it in. "if Im not reading we have a plan then we don't have one". Well, just because we are not aware of it does not mean there is not one. If Knicks planned to not keep Thibs for some time then it seems like they reacted to losing and did it. Read on that said why have player exit interviews suggesting they should wait a week. It's common that the exit interviews are done within two days as players leave for a break? Don't they clear out lockers and stuff?
Thibs was cooked in my opinion before the last game. Does that mean if they make finals he stays? Maybe. But we did not.
Leon and CO. think the team should have beaten Indy perhaps. My guess is just a guess.

GustavBahler wrote:My money was on Brown, but Im guessing its between Brown and Borrego.

Your hedging your bet now?

Knicksfan wrote:This is a funny situation:

For the past few seasons and more so this year, we have all been very critical of coach Thibs. His in-game adjustments, his stubbornness, his over reliance on the starters, his lack of in-game playing time for the kids, his poor offensive strategies, his outdated defensive strategies along with other details, Thibs has been heavily scrutinized. And rightfully so, as this team is primed with its best shot at a title in forever.

The Knicks decide to part ways with him after a very successful season, but one where all the weaknesses of Thibs kept showing up. This decision seems to have been made with the resolution that we needed a different voice. This decision was made by one of the better connected people in the league, Leon Rose, who definitely knew that if he searched through the many coaches in the league, whether recently fired, employed with little security or an assistant currently, he would find his guy. But a responsible franchise does a thorough search. And despite the toxic ideas spread around the league where a team still playing in the playoffs should have a deal under the table with another coach, the right thing to do once you decide to part ways with your current coach is to take your time and search the right way.

I can understand the media sticking to the rhetoric that the Knicks are a mess, because it generated them lots of clicks and ratings in past years, but this is a very different management. How do some of you keep believing the media crap is mind boggling to me. Thibs is a very good coach and he did great things here, but the league has changed a lot and the Knicks have realized that for now and for long term, they need a different voice more in line with the new league.

In the end, the next hiring will probably not look immediately sexy to many, but if the Knicks do this process right, we will reap the benefits with a roster that is ready to take that final step forward. Let Rose cook.

The point is not what the media says. The point is that this trade would be to get a BETTER coach than Who was here. Not clear to me that there are better options in play. Regardless of whether they had an understanding in place or not.

Nalod wrote:The point is you want better results. Thibs did great with certain subset of players for 4 years. Might have gotten the best out of them.
COY year one. Playoffs 4 of 5 years.
You can bring a chip coach and say he better, but not if he can't get the best out of this roster FO believes is more talented but not a Thibian Roster.

Can a coach with a lessor resume do better? Not until you get hindsight do you get clarity.

Again, you want better results. You know the game Pano's, no guarantees. Why bother then? Not your money and nobody asked any of what to think it thru or help.

Nalod, don’t think it’s hindsight to say it was a puzzling move.
It’s just using historical and statistical data.
Thibs had the best single season results in 25 years. And as you mentioned, he made the playoffs last 4 of 5. We had one of the weaker benches in the NBA last year statistically.
Feel the FO is the one using futuristic hindsight.
Since statistically, one would think it would focus on improving the depth needed to win a chip.

LivingLegend wrote:Wonder why Kidd hasn’t just come out and said he’s coaching Mavs unless he’s in negotiations on new extension and leveraging Knicks job.

Still not convinced Kidd isn’t conniving his way to Knicks regardless of Nico Harrison comments.

Want to hear either Kid say he’s staying or Knicks hire a new guy.

Would also like to see how Chris Quinn would interview.

Yeah where there’s smoke there’s fire. Rose wants Kidd. Kidd wants the Knicks. But he’s under contract so Rose is back channeling the media saying he’s interviewing all these other candidates trying to maintain some form of leverage.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:The point is you want better results. Thibs did great with certain subset of players for 4 years. Might have gotten the best out of them.
COY year one. Playoffs 4 of 5 years.
You can bring a chip coach and say he better, but not if he can't get the best out of this roster FO believes is more talented but not a Thibian Roster.

Can a coach with a lessor resume do better? Not until you get hindsight do you get clarity.

Again, you want better results. You know the game Pano's, no guarantees. Why bother then? Not your money and nobody asked any of what to think it thru or help.

Nalod, don’t think it’s hindsight to say it was a puzzling move.
It’s just using historical and statistical data.
Thibs had the best single season results in 25 years. And as you mentioned, he made the playoffs last 4 of 5. We had one of the weaker benches in the NBA last year statistically.
Feel the FO is the one using futuristic hindsight.
Since statistically, one would think it would focus on improving the depth needed to win a chip.

The hindsight comes in a few years when we can look back. Let's not forget if Mikal was done playing for him that creates an issue.
It's all conceptual. But those closest to the team felt time for a change while (FO) media fills our heads with doubt. On the surface I agree with you and really thought highly of Thibs but I'm trying to make sense of it. You're talking about Thibs resume vs others and "Why bother". The issue is can a young coach with less history take this team further? Thibs has a very accomplished resume and Im not talking about just getting one that has a chip. That **** with Doc Rivers is an example of it not translating forward. Joe Mazzula is the opposite. George Karl 6th all time), Sloan (4th) and Don Nelson (2nd!!!) are top 10 all time with win totals are and never won a chip as coach. If available we'd hold that against them yet we love the potential of a Chris Quinn or Johnny because it's so promising. The Borgerro-Brown-Jenkins are those type but have warts on the resume. But........as I repeat, what's the context of those warts? Is the coach not more seasoned dealing with adversity and perhaps if they did not handle it right prone to repeat it over and over again or do they grow from it? All the guys I mentioned had decades long careers and had to evolve. Thibs to some extent also. Bud has the pedigree and is not even mentioned for any interview. Vogel? Have not read anything since he was made gone. Malone? Other than PhilC doing his Rainman act nothing is rumored there. "he knows the organization". Not really. Is anyone working in the FO since? He left 20 ****ing years ago.

Seems like two discussions.
One is, was it a smart move to let Thibs go. Mentioned why I feel not.
Second is what do we do now.
Agree that it is what it is and one must focus on what options are best NOW.
Still doesn’t mean some can’t be left with the feeling this was Dolanesque. Which is never good.
For me maybe Borgerro is intriguing because of the Pop tree.
But mostly because he may be new and I am not crazy about Malone,Jenkins or Nori. Since I see all as run of the mill offensive coaches without ever overachieving defensively.

Lol, perhaps Dolan was in on the exit interviews as Leon had to demonstrate why he had to pay 30mil to move on?
Not like he the only owner who had to do this. He had to eat 24mil of PhilJax's remainder just after he opted in those last two years. Then eat some crow and give Mills back the job he snatched from him. Meanwhile Isiah was in the attic laughing his ass off

Now if Dolan wanted Thibs gone and Leon did not that would be something to worry about!
I really have nothing but praise for the job Thibs did for his 1st 4 years. The 5th was not easy to watch at times and should have been given another year. But......there was treachery in the ranks and perhaps much we don't know.

Retread coaches rarely excite as much as the fresh faced assistant. None of this really excites me.