martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Martin, lots of people here with less than 80 IQs I guess.

Here's the thing with the Mikal trades- who's on the court at the end of games?

Got to have Brunson, got to have DDV, got to have OG (if resigned). I put those 3 at top because Brunson (obviously), a top 5 in the league 3 point shooter,and a top 5 defender. The other two spots are up for grabs. Randle/ Josh/ IHart or Robinson all could make a claim though Robinson's free throw shooting probably puts him on the outside. Point being, there doesn't seem to be a need for Mikal absent an injury.

You made the point earlier that Randle is a 1B (or 1C) and Mikal is a 2A. Randle is my favorite player and I'm not in favor of that trade- I'm just saying that's one that makes sense if you think Mikal is the missing piece.

No GM in the league who wants to keep his job long would give up Randle and picks for Mikal. They would get fired some time after that because they made a wrong value decision.

Mikal is an upgrade over DDV. But the overlap in skillset is so redundant with DDV/Hart/Deuce/OG that his upgrade value over DDV and Randle and picks is negative or less for the exchange.

I am talking about the trade value exchange itself, you are talking about a specific fit at a particular time in a game. You also need to slog through the regular season and we KNOW Randle is much much much better at carrying a team than Mikal; we have seen it up close.

Wing players are cheaper to acquire. KPC is on the market this offseason and he will come at half the cost and is slightly less valuable in terms of output. And he wouldn't cost you an all NBA type.

Randle is a gravity player who demands double teams. He is majorly flawed but as a 1B, he could be very very very dangerous cause not only is he a team defense bender, he is an very good passer in spite of the TO's. Mikal is not those things; he is very elite at his own stuff but not in the same stratosphere as Randle.

What you are talking about is more fantasy league trade stuff.

I agree with all these points. My original post on the topic was "Randle plus a pick would be an offer Brooklyn would accept." The only reason I think the front office would ever contemplate it is if Brunson made some sort of demand along those lines; I will sign the extension but you got to get Bridges here. Brunson doesn't seem like the type but who knows. You have to think that Giannis was in the loop for the Holiday- Lillard trade that looks like it was a major misstep as well.

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Martin, lots of people here with less than 80 IQs I guess.

Here's the thing with the Mikal trades- who's on the court at the end of games?

Got to have Brunson, got to have DDV, got to have OG (if resigned). I put those 3 at top because Brunson (obviously), a top 5 in the league 3 point shooter,and a top 5 defender. The other two spots are up for grabs. Randle/ Josh/ IHart or Robinson all could make a claim though Robinson's free throw shooting probably puts him on the outside. Point being, there doesn't seem to be a need for Mikal absent an injury.

You made the point earlier that Randle is a 1B (or 1C) and Mikal is a 2A. Randle is my favorite player and I'm not in favor of that trade- I'm just saying that's one that makes sense if you think Mikal is the missing piece.

No GM in the league who wants to keep his job long would give up Randle and picks for Mikal. They would get fired some time after that because they made a wrong value decision.

Mikal is an upgrade over DDV. But the overlap in skillset is so redundant with DDV/Hart/Deuce/OG that his upgrade value over DDV and Randle and picks is negative or less for the exchange.

I am talking about the trade value exchange itself, you are talking about a specific fit at a particular time in a game. You also need to slog through the regular season and we KNOW Randle is much much much better at carrying a team than Mikal; we have seen it up close.

Wing players are cheaper to acquire. KPC is on the market this offseason and he will come at half the cost and is slightly less valuable in terms of output. And he wouldn't cost you an all NBA type.

Randle is a gravity player who demands double teams. He is majorly flawed but as a 1B, he could be very very very dangerous cause not only is he a team defense bender, he is an very good passer in spite of the TO's. Mikal is not those things; he is very elite at his own stuff but not in the same stratosphere as Randle.

What you are talking about is more fantasy league trade stuff.

You might have a little bias here.

I have Randle above Bridges, as well, on scoring and rebounding and on positional scarcity. I have Bridges on defense, 3 point, court awareness, motor, health and contract. Not to say Randles is a bad contract but Mikal’s is an awesome contract, for the team.

It would make no sense to trade Randle for Mikal. For either team. That’s silly. But I think more teams might want to trade for Mikal than Randle. Truth is, I don’t really understand this 1a, 1b, 2a nonsense. But it think both Mikal and Randle are in the same tier for different reasons. Right now, neither really wants to acknowledge that they are trying to be more than the role they are best suited for. Josh Hart stepped in a did Randle’s job near as well as he could on the rebounding and assists side. Randle could be a triple double machine. Top tier elite. Except he thinks he is a Kobe-level scoring threat instead of a triple double guy. Mikal is an elite 3&D - top 5 in the league 3&D, who had a down year on a bad team while trying to be a lead scorer instead of a 3&D.

So, they both have characteristic flaws that can be resolved.

But I want both and I want both to be the best version of themselves.

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Martin, lots of people here with less than 80 IQs I guess.

Here's the thing with the Mikal trades- who's on the court at the end of games?

Got to have Brunson, got to have DDV, got to have OG (if resigned). I put those 3 at top because Brunson (obviously), a top 5 in the league 3 point shooter,and a top 5 defender. The other two spots are up for grabs. Randle/ Josh/ IHart or Robinson all could make a claim though Robinson's free throw shooting probably puts him on the outside. Point being, there doesn't seem to be a need for Mikal absent an injury.

You made the point earlier that Randle is a 1B (or 1C) and Mikal is a 2A. Randle is my favorite player and I'm not in favor of that trade- I'm just saying that's one that makes sense if you think Mikal is the missing piece.

No GM in the league who wants to keep his job long would give up Randle and picks for Mikal. They would get fired some time after that because they made a wrong value decision.

Mikal is an upgrade over DDV. But the overlap in skillset is so redundant with DDV/Hart/Deuce/OG that his upgrade value over DDV and Randle and picks is negative or less for the exchange.

I am talking about the trade value exchange itself, you are talking about a specific fit at a particular time in a game. You also need to slog through the regular season and we KNOW Randle is much much much better at carrying a team than Mikal; we have seen it up close.

Wing players are cheaper to acquire. KPC is on the market this offseason and he will come at half the cost and is slightly less valuable in terms of output. And he wouldn't cost you an all NBA type.

Randle is a gravity player who demands double teams. He is majorly flawed but as a 1B, he could be very very very dangerous cause not only is he a team defense bender, he is an very good passer in spite of the TO's. Mikal is not those things; he is very elite at his own stuff but not in the same stratosphere as Randle.

What you are talking about is more fantasy league trade stuff.

You might have a little bias here.

I have Randle above Bridges, as well, on scoring and rebounding and on positional scarcity. I have Bridges on defense, 3 point, court awareness, motor, health and contract. Not to say Randles is a bad contract but Mikal’s is an awesome contract, for the team.

It would make no sense to trade Randle for Mikal. For either team. That’s silly. But I think more teams might want to trade for Mikal than Randle. Truth is, I don’t really understand this 1a, 1b, 2a nonsense. But it think both Mikal and Randle are in the same tier for different reasons. Right now, neither really wants to acknowledge that they are trying to be more than the role they are best suited for. Josh Hart stepped in a did Randle’s job near as well as he could on the rebounding and assists side. Randle could be a triple double machine. Top tier elite. Except he thinks he is a Kobe-level scoring threat instead of a triple double guy. Mikal is an elite 3&D - top 5 in the league 3&D, who had a down year on a bad team while trying to be a lead scorer instead of a 3&D.

So, they both have characteristic flaws that can be resolved.

But I want both and I want both to be the best version of themselves.

Agree about Randle having several shortcomings .
Agree about Mikal being a very good 3 and D player.
Still feel you are overlooking how much more impact Randle has had individually.
Fact is Randle was an All Star and in the running for MVP when leading a “bad team”
Mikal just proved, as you said, he is not at the same level.
I feel is Knick fans often undervalue their own and over value players on other teams that have proven less. Including the ability to play in the city with the biggest spot light on their athletes .
Randle would be wanted by many teams that are looking to change their trajectory instantly.
Only because he has already proved that he can. Mikal proved that he is a better role player than a “lead” star. So why are we comparing their potential impact being similar?

I see what Mikal offers as replaceable by many role players out there.
I don’t see many replacements for a perennial double double All Star that demands the full attention of a defense. Including Josh Hart. Who did a great job but mostly because defenses committed to leaving him wide open

I don’t want to turn this into a Randle argument. At this best, he has All NBA credentials. At his worst, he can shoot a team into the lottery. It’s clear this team is growing and many players took huge steps in his absence. How he jives with these guys when he is back is going to write his next contract for him. The team is better with production from the $30mm on his roster slot. He is the best person to fill that slot. But there are other ways to fill the hole we were missing in the playoffs. I don’t want to discount his role in January. That January team is the one I want to put on the court in November. My entire argument is that Bridges for DDV probably adds 3-5 more wins on the season and a little more defensive versatility. At its best, This line up is a top 10 center away from multiple rings. IHart can actually just develop into that center. Fill in the blanks with vet min ring chasers.

Brunson
Bridges / DDV
OG
Randle / Hart
IHart / Robinson

Not altogether dissimilar from this prime:

Curry
Klay
Iggy
Dray