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BigDaddyG
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2/9/2023  9:43 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Not saying you're wrong, but are we sure that JHart will be in the second unit? I get the feeling that depends on Grimes hitting the 3. Hart hasnt been that great either, but he has more in the toolbox.

I would love to see IQ and Grimes taking turns running the point in the second unit. See how Brunson and his old Villanova teammate does to start.

Yeah and no. I think Grimes is a better passer and offensive connector, something you need with JR, JB and RJ. And even with his recent struggles, Grimes is still steadier from 3 than Hart. I also like the idea of Hart being a Swiss army knife off the bench who can plug in various holes, My only question is how much this cuts into RJ's stewardship off the bench unit.

I mean, Hart averages 4 asts per game and 8 rebounds. I like Grimes a lot, but are we maybe overstating his usefulness in a lineup that has 3 players with 27%+ usage? Hart does most of what he does without needing the ball. Kind of a better complement to our ball hogs. Putting Grimes back with McBride and IQ reunites what is probably our best defensive line. I think Grimes in a more solidified second unit actually gets him more touches.

Perhaps... I still see problems putting in a sub average three point shooter (this season) in a lineup that already has spacing issues. I might change my mind if Hart starts picking up from the outside.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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martin
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2/9/2023  11:31 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I mean, Q is a 36% 3 point shoot (career) and Hart is 34% career. Hart is bringing a lot more length 6’9 vs 6’5 wingspan for Q.

I think those screen assists from Hart are going to be valuable.

I’m not saying I’m certain on this, but I certainly think it’s more open for discussion than not.

Hart is like 6'4"?

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martin
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2/9/2023  11:46 PM
Can I get a Brock-Brock

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martin
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2/9/2023  11:48 PM

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Kemet
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2/10/2023  12:17 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Not saying you're wrong, but are we sure that JHart will be in the second unit? I get the feeling that depends on Grimes hitting the 3. Hart hasnt been that great either, but he has more in the toolbox.

I would love to see IQ and Grimes taking turns running the point in the second unit. See how Brunson and his old Villanova teammate does to start.

Yeah and no. I think Grimes is a better passer and offensive connector, something you need with JR, JB and RJ. And even with his recent struggles, Grimes is still steadier from 3 than Hart. I also like the idea of Hart being a Swiss army knife off the bench who can plug in various holes, My only question is how much this cuts into RJ's stewardship off the bench unit.

I mean, Hart averages 4 asts per game and 8 rebounds. I like Grimes a lot, but are we maybe overstating his usefulness in a lineup that has 3 players with 27%+ usage? Hart does most of what he does without needing the ball. Kind of a better complement to our ball hogs. Putting Grimes back with McBride and IQ reunites what is probably our best defensive line. I think Grimes in a more solidified second unit actually gets him more touches.

Perhaps... I still see problems putting in a sub average three point shooter (this season) in a lineup that already has spacing issues. I might change my mind if Hart starts picking up from the outside.

Hart's a swift defensive player to tandem with Brunson in the backcourt, and Quickley in the backcourt.
Josh Hart's passing-skills and quickness to rebound are great, he's not a scorer and doe's brick 3's.
The Blazers 27-28 record would've had more wins having 6.7 Cam Reddish at the SF position helping Grant & Nurkic in the frontcourt, rather than 6.4 Josh Hart's quickness.

Does the 2023 first round pick the Knicks gave up for the Hart for Reddish trade say,
"TANKING!" ???
EwingsGlass
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2/10/2023  6:54 AM
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I mean, Q is a 36% 3 point shoot (career) and Hart is 34% career. Hart is bringing a lot more length 6’9 vs 6’5 wingspan for Q.

I think those screen assists from Hart are going to be valuable.

I’m not saying I’m certain on this, but I certainly think it’s more open for discussion than not.

Hart is like 6'4"?

With a 6’9 wingspan.

You know I gonna spin wit it
BigDaddyG
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2/10/2023  7:42 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I mean, Q is a 36% 3 point shoot (career) and Hart is 34% career. Hart is bringing a lot more length 6’9 vs 6’5 wingspan for Q.

I think those screen assists from Hart are going to be valuable.

I’m not saying I’m certain on this, but I certainly think it’s more open for discussion than not.

Hart is like 6'4"?

With a 6’9 wingspan.

Not that it matters much, but Grimes has wing span just shy of 6'8".

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Ira
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2/10/2023  7:42 AM
I think some people look at Hart's 3 pt % (30.4) this season and ignore that his career numbers from 3 (34.3) are much better.
HofstraBBall
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2/10/2023  8:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/10/2023  8:33 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I mean, Q is a 36% 3 point shoot (career) and Hart is 34% career. Hart is bringing a lot more length 6’9 vs 6’5 wingspan for Q.

I think those screen assists from Hart are going to be valuable.

I’m not saying I’m certain on this, but I certainly think it’s more open for discussion than not.

Hart is like 6'4"?

With a 6’9 wingspan.

Not that it matters much, but Grimes has wing span just shy of 6'8".

Josh Hart will be staring. Imo.
Maybe not tonight but feel that the move will happen earlier than later.
He has always been a very good +/- and advanced stat guy.
Once Knick fans see the affect he has on the court, they will be fine with Grimes coming off the bench. Especially if Grimes helps our second unit dominate. I also think Harts ability to create and dish helps the first unit. Something Grimes does not do yet.
The plan is probably to have IQ, Hart, Grimes on the floor a lot.
The only change, I feel, will be no more Deuce and that RJ and Grimes will now get normal minutes. Not the crazy 40 minute games. Do think Hart will need to get his 3pt shooting back to career average for him to start.

In any case, think they should let this play itself out naturally. Do not think it should be a quick decision. However, with Thibs, you never know. He rarely cares how players take any of his moves. If he feels Hart is better in first unit, we may see the change right away.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Rookie
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2/10/2023  8:19 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/10/2023  8:21 AM
I don’t expect Thibs will change up at all from what he has done in the past. I’m just not sure yet if Josh Hart is the new Reggie Bullock or the new Alec Burks. Adding another player to the starting line up who doesn’t space the floor is not ideal and he seems like a better fit with the 2nd units energy and pace. I see Hart in the Burks role before he was our stating PG off the bench veteran leader, energy and pace guy. Of course, this doesn’t help us resign him, so if that is the leading factor then it’s Grimes to the bench and Hart is the new Bullock except with more handles and less 3pt shooting.
Nalod
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2/10/2023  8:45 AM

Lets be real, Josh Hart is a “NOW” player.

Deuce, IQ, OBI, Grimes and RJ are “What will they become and the timeline of contracts”.
I expect Hart to eat into Grimes and IQ’s time. Its does not derail their career and its not a permanent solution either.
I expect one of Grimes and IQ to be traded.
If Hart Starts its got to be about relieving pressure from RJ and getting him going to the next level.
RJ defensively has taken a step back but parts of his game are stagnant. RJ was a 3rd pick and its about expectations. Lower them and look at him at 22 and he is a pretty good player. Tighten up his shooting % jsut a bit and remove franchise expectations and perhaps its all more reasonable. Maybe fans bump heads on what his ceiling is?

I’d have to think Thibs more than signed off on JHart and will use him. The guess he will eat into yoot time a bit which bothers some of you. Funny if its RJ it does not. Yet he is the secocnd youngest player on the team and still 22.
blkexec
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2/10/2023  8:54 AM
Welcome to the squad Josh. Always been a big fan of his game. He’s a thibs type player. So let’s see how he fits josh in. My guess is he’s taking deuce 13mins per game. This will be interesting as we near the playoffs.
Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
BigDaddyG
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2/10/2023  9:12 AM
Ira wrote:I think some people look at Hart's 3 pt % (30.4) this season and ignore that his career numbers from 3 (34.3) are much better.

I think everyone here acknowledges that. But...
1)That was then and this now. We're halfway through the season and he's shooting 30 percent. It'd be nice if he picks it up, but it would be foolish to count on that if the goal is the playoffs.
2) He's not a high volume three point shooter. So, even if he hits, he still doesn't represent a real threat from outside for opposing defenses.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BigDaddyG
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2/10/2023  9:17 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I mean, Q is a 36% 3 point shoot (career) and Hart is 34% career. Hart is bringing a lot more length 6’9 vs 6’5 wingspan for Q.

I think those screen assists from Hart are going to be valuable.

I’m not saying I’m certain on this, but I certainly think it’s more open for discussion than not.

Hart is like 6'4"?

With a 6’9 wingspan.

Not that it matters much, but Grimes has wing span just shy of 6'8".

Josh Hart will be staring. Imo.
Maybe not tonight but feel that the move will happen earlier than later.
He has always been a very good +/- and advanced stat guy.
Once Knick fans see the affect he has on the court, they will be fine with Grimes coming off the bench. Especially if Grimes helps our second unit dominate. I also think Harts ability to create and dish helps the first unit. Something Grimes does not do yet.
The plan is probably to have IQ, Hart, Grimes on the floor a lot.
The only change, I feel, will be no more Deuce and that RJ and Grimes will now get normal minutes. Not the crazy 40 minute games. Do think Hart will need to get his 3pt shooting back to career average for him to start.

In any case, think they should let this play itself out naturally. Do not think it should be a quick decision. However, with Thibs, you never know. He rarely cares how players take any of his moves. If he feels Hart is better in first unit, we may see the change right away.

Not just get his average up, but shoot them at a high volume as well. With Randle, JB and RJ already in the lineup, do you think first unit or the second unit could make better use of Hart's strengths? If you're telling me Hart is starter late in the season or next year, I could see it. But right now, Grimes fits better with the starting lineup.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BigDaddyG
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2/10/2023  9:32 AM
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
ramtour420
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2/10/2023  9:53 AM
Not sure how I feel about this. We cannot lose shooting in the starting lineup. If he is going to strengthen our bench then I am all for it. Grimes > Hart
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
gradyandrew
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2/10/2023  9:53 AM
Yeah, I don't think this is too complicated. Hart is the better SF than RJ is now. Every advanced stat shows that RJ is the weak link in the starting lineup. We still have RJ under contract for 4 more years and he's young, so hopefully he can improve and get busy with the bench. That being said, the team has to come first. Orlando was letting RJ shoot open 3's. Is there any doubt that RJ's shooting is going to crater in the playoffs once the defense picks up? Knicks have a window here to make some noise in the playoffs. They can't let the season go to waste waiting for RJ.
fishmike
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2/10/2023  10:01 AM
gradyandrew wrote:Yeah, I don't think this is too complicated. Hart is the better SF than RJ is now. Every advanced stat shows that RJ is the weak link in the starting lineup. We still have RJ under contract for 4 more years and he's young, so hopefully he can improve and get busy with the bench. That being said, the team has to come first. Orlando was letting RJ shoot open 3's. Is there any doubt that RJ's shooting is going to crater in the playoffs once the defense picks up? Knicks have a window here to make some noise in the playoffs. They can't let the season go to waste waiting for RJ.
it will be interesting to see the rotations. Hart is a high IQ player and aggressive physically. Possibly the only things documented to get Thibs aroused. RJ can really get hot and be a force of nature taking it to the rim, but he's also likely our lowest IQ player. Hart is hard not to like
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Chandler
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2/10/2023  10:25 AM

i am worried about his shooting % but encouraged by his history of smarts and guts. He hit big shots at least in college

I am hoping that he, like Brunson, plays up to the moment and doesn't wilt in those last few minutes (like many on our team do). Think of what our record would be now if we had simply one other reliable crunch time option.

Thibs will also love his ability to get those long rebounds

(5)(7)
BigDaddyG
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2/10/2023  10:28 AM
gradyandrew wrote:Yeah, I don't think this is too complicated. Hart is the better SF than RJ is now. Every advanced stat shows that RJ is the weak link in the starting lineup. We still have RJ under contract for 4 more years and he's young, so hopefully he can improve and get busy with the bench. That being said, the team has to come first. Orlando was letting RJ shoot open 3's. Is there any doubt that RJ's shooting is going to crater in the playoffs once the defense picks up? Knicks have a window here to make some noise in the playoffs. They can't let the season go to waste waiting for RJ.

Hahaha... I was trying not to press the RJ button. I wanted to go at least 8 hours without being bombarded by green check marks.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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