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Knicks in on Mitchell trade
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Chandler
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7/14/2022  12:15 PM
one other reason to question whether Utah really would want RJ. Does Ainge want a guy where he'll quicly get a huge pay raise

Grimes makes more sense for them. And whatever we use for matching contracts will either need to be expiring or some one he can flip for another pick or two down the road

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LivingLegend
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7/14/2022  12:18 PM
Hoping that Mitchell has already told Jazz he wants NY but they are in agreement to execute deal behind the scene so not as to kill his overall trade value. Basically Jazz say - ok we will work with NY if you don’t go public with this demand.

This places NY in better position and both teams reach a reasonable deal.

Flip side is we are being used as leverage and another front runner team will sneak in and steal him. Could see some big 4 team deal go down excluding Knicks as usual
martin
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7/14/2022  12:22 PM
jskinny35 wrote:I honestly would pass on trading for Donovan unless it's players like Fournier, Rose, Randle and 1 of the young players.

Since it seems like we are trying to make a deal - I think Rose and Cam, IQ and Toppin + 5/6 1st rounders is likely the framework. Maybe Grimes or McBride if Dolan steps in...

I don't think we do any trade that involves RJ and 2/3 of IQ, Toppin, Cam, Grimes... I think it's an either RJ or young players and picks

I hear they don't want long-term salary so Randle, and possibly Fournier are out. That's why I think Rose may be the main player.

For Rose to be in the trade (without Randle or Fournier or RJ), to get to bare min salary of $24.3M, Knicks would have to do one of these deals:

1) Rose, Cam, Obi $14.5, $6, $5.3
2) Rose, Cam, IQ, Grimes $14.5, $6, $2.3, $2.2
3) Rose, Obi, IQ, Grimes $14.5, $5.3, $2.3, $2.2

Just no way the Knicks do the last 2 deals IMO

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martin
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7/14/2022  12:25 PM
LivingLegend wrote:Hoping that Mitchell has already told Jazz he wants NY but they are in agreement to execute deal behind the scene so not as to kill his overall trade value. Basically Jazz say - ok we will work with NY if you don’t go public with this demand.

This places NY in better position and both teams reach a reasonable deal.

Flip side is we are being used as leverage and another front runner team will sneak in and steal him. Could see some big 4 team deal go down excluding Knicks as usual

I guess they forgot to tell Donovan to stop hanging out in NY with IQ and stop wearing all of the NY gear or hanging out at Mets games NO DROPPING HINTS!!

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MS
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7/14/2022  12:28 PM
They are definitely doing a deal.

It's going to Fournier, Toppin, Grimes, Quickly and 4 first rounders. Have no confidence in these guys to execute a good trade.

Ainge is going to rip there face off. If 5 first rounders is what he got from a good GM in Minnesota, it's time to worry.
GustavBahler
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7/14/2022  12:38 PM
MS wrote:They are definitely doing a deal.

It's going to Fournier, Toppin, Grimes, Quickly and 4 first rounders. Have no confidence in these guys to execute a good trade.

Ainge is going to rip there face off. If 5 first rounders is what he got from a good GM in Minnesota, it's time to worry.

I will be PO'd if its a deal like that. Not all deals have worked out for the Knicks, but Perry hasnt negotiated a deal that has hurt the franchise long term since getting the job.

To the contrary, he unloaded Melo and KP's contract when they were at rock bottom value, without taking on long term garbage. He's the first GM in a long time who I trust to make a good deal.

Im more concerned about Rose wanting Mitchell so bad he gives up players he shouldnt.
martin
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7/14/2022  12:38 PM
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SergioNYK
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7/14/2022  12:44 PM
All of this for Donovan Mitchell? He is not a franchise level player! WALK AWAY! WE ARE GOING TO REGRET THIS!
BRIGGS
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7/14/2022  12:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2022  12:47 PM
martin wrote:

If they are ging to do this they also need to be able to walk away from it if Utah is ridiculous

I’d rather give the picks for Durant atleast he’s a game changer. They need to cool their jets

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KnickDanger
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7/14/2022  12:49 PM
These proposed trades would be Isaiah era trades. So far the current FO has shown itself to be detached from the imbecilic, quick fix mindset. Trusting that remains the case.
franco12
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7/14/2022  12:53 PM
SergioNYK wrote:All of this for Donovan Mitchell? He is not a franchise level player! WALK AWAY! WE ARE GOING TO REGRET THIS!

I kinda agree- but.

Are we 100% sure Mitchell can't develop like Stephen Curry?

So then I think 100% look at it, make the right deal to leave enough talent here to be lethal. I'd like to keep IQ- have him be the wild card off the bench.

We might prefer to keep Grimes because of his d & 3pter being a much more lethal weapon.
BigDaddyG
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7/14/2022  1:00 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:

If they are ging to do this they also need to be able to walk away from it if Utah is ridiculous

I’d rather give the picks for Durant atleast he’s a game changer. They need to cool their jets

More picks? Rose needs to tell Danny to eat a Snickers bar and call back in the morning.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Chandler
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7/14/2022  1:07 PM

Any of the basketball savants here know when guys like MJ, Kobe, Steph and Klay started putting it fully together giving their all on both ends of the court? 25ish sounds right

if we do this we have to be sold that Donovan is still ascending. His defensive numbers are regressing though. SO we need to be sold that might be attitudinal as opposed to something else and that THibs can get the guy in his best shape to play elite at both ends like all the great ones have

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blkexec
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7/14/2022  1:27 PM
Chandler wrote:
Any of the basketball savants here know when guys like MJ, Kobe, Steph and Klay started putting it fully together giving their all on both ends of the court? 25ish sounds right

if we do this we have to be sold that Donovan is still ascending. His defensive numbers are regressing though. SO we need to be sold that might be attitudinal as opposed to something else and that THibs can get the guy in his best shape to play elite at both ends like all the great ones have

At some point this is not just a basketball decision but a ROI strategy for Dolan. Brunson now Mitchell, creates lots of of season buzz that Dolan can monetize from. Selling potential can be more valuable than reality. As a fan, we can’t see how this addition moves the needle but I’m sure there will be plenty of commercial adds and other money generating activities with the addition of Donovan.

With that said I believe Donovan and Brunson have another gear to reach in their career and this might be the perfect time for both of them to reach that next level together. But this is just another stepping stone for the team. I would like to get their SF who’s their best defender (last name starts with a V). But we definitely need to surround them with 2 way players to make this team work.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
fishmike
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7/14/2022  1:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2022  1:35 PM
Chandler wrote:
Any of the basketball savants here know when guys like MJ, Kobe, Steph and Klay started putting it fully together giving their all on both ends of the court? 25ish sounds right

if we do this we have to be sold that Donovan is still ascending. His defensive numbers are regressing though. SO we need to be sold that might be attitudinal as opposed to something else and that THibs can get the guy in his best shape to play elite at both ends like all the great ones have

I agree. He's a 25 yo 3x all star. I mean for the "HES NOT A FRANCHISE PLAYER" crowd wtf does one look like? He's an impact player and its not really up for discussion. Even though he and Brunson are small and a seemingly bad fit its on us to try it out and make it work.

Figure Obi/Grimes/Fournier/Cam for Mitchell with the Knicks giving up draft comp as well...

Feron Hunt suddenly becomes a needed role player. Rotation would look something like this:
Brunson/Mitchell/RJ/Randle/Mitch
bench: Rose/IQ/Hunt/Sims/Hart

Hart doesnt clog the post so I think Sims can play plenty of 4 with Hart there to space him. Hunt for size/defensive and Rose/IQ are self explanatory. McBride is Rose's backup.

I mean that is a REALLY good young team worth working on and developing chemistry.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jaydh
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7/14/2022  1:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2022  1:42 PM
if only we had burks and noel as cap filler...this is an easy pass.
CleaverGreene
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7/14/2022  1:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2022  1:51 PM
I'd like to think about our defensive problems if we were to give up, say, Barrett, Grimes, and Quickley.

Brunson
Mitchell
Fournier?
Randle
Robinson

Not much to look at in terms of defending against an opponent.

I'd give up extra picks if it meant keeping Barrett & Grimes, at this point, but I don't see Utah making the trade without those 2 players.

If you keep IQ and McBride, you still end up with 4 guards who are 6'2 or less in your rotation, and Fournier & Randle are, for the most part, adequate defenders at best.

This is a 50 win team, perhaps, and maybe it gets past the 1st round, IMO, but who knows. You surely don't get out of the Eastern Conference with this team, sorry.

There are three classes of men; lovers of wisdom, lovers of honor, and lovers of gain. (Plato)
Knixkik
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7/14/2022  1:50 PM
SergioNYK wrote:All of this for Donovan Mitchell? He is not a franchise level player! WALK AWAY! WE ARE GOING TO REGRET THIS!

While he may not be a franchise player at this point, he’s 25 years old and capable of growing into it. He should be just entering his prime years.
CleaverGreene
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7/14/2022  1:52 PM
fishmike wrote:
Chandler wrote:
Any of the basketball savants here know when guys like MJ, Kobe, Steph and Klay started putting it fully together giving their all on both ends of the court? 25ish sounds right

if we do this we have to be sold that Donovan is still ascending. His defensive numbers are regressing though. SO we need to be sold that might be attitudinal as opposed to something else and that THibs can get the guy in his best shape to play elite at both ends like all the great ones have

I agree. He's a 25 yo 3x all star. I mean for the "HES NOT A FRANCHISE PLAYER" crowd wtf does one look like? He's an impact player and its not really up for discussion. Even though he and Brunson are small and a seemingly bad fit its on us to try it out and make it work.

Figure Obi/Grimes/Fournier/Cam for Mitchell with the Knicks giving up draft comp as well...

Feron Hunt suddenly becomes a needed role player. Rotation would look something like this:
Brunson/Mitchell/RJ/Randle/Mitch
bench: Rose/IQ/Hunt/Sims/Hart

Hart doesnt clog the post so I think Sims can play plenty of 4 with Hart there to space him. Hunt for size/defensive and Rose/IQ are self explanatory. McBride is Rose's backup.

I mean that is a REALLY good young team worth working on and developing chemistry.


So you think Utah would make the trade without getting Barrett? I'm assuming he will be part of the trade.
There are three classes of men; lovers of wisdom, lovers of honor, and lovers of gain. (Plato)
CleaverGreene
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7/14/2022  2:06 PM
franco12 wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:All of this for Donovan Mitchell? He is not a franchise level player! WALK AWAY! WE ARE GOING TO REGRET THIS!

I kinda agree- but.

Are we 100% sure Mitchell can't develop like Stephen Curry?

So then I think 100% look at it, make the right deal to leave enough talent here to be lethal. I'd like to keep IQ- have him be the wild card off the bench.

We might prefer to keep Grimes because of his d & 3pter being a much more lethal weapon.

Mitchell's BEST year from deep was about equal to Curry's worst. Curry is as good, or better at rebounding, has more steals/game, and a better Assist to Turnover ratio.

Mitchell also had Gobert, the 3X DPY backing him up in Utah.

Easy to now admit that looking back, we should've taken Mitchell at #8, but when we start talking about giving up combos of players which might end up including Barrett, Grimes, and IQ, I think we are overvaluing Donovan, who had some excellent teams at Utah who couldn't get over the hump when it counted.

There are three classes of men; lovers of wisdom, lovers of honor, and lovers of gain. (Plato)
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