nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

Marv wrote:I revisited a number of "nitty's" videos. I'm down with this kid. I see a lot of chauncey in this kid. And like chauncey it might take a little while to all gel. And when it does, i think we're going to have one of the top guards in the league. Hope we have the patience that boston didn't. He grows with zingis, billy, tim, dotson, we got our core.

I agree full heartedly, I see a lot of bullips in him as well with maybe more upside interms of length and hight! If we have the next bullips on our hands Watch out!

The thing is, Billups was on some really bad teams early in his career and despite his talent, he was traded. Thats what always happens when you got young talented guys on a losing team.

I don't expect that this Knicks team will be so bad that they'd break it up anytime soon. I actually think the kinds of players they have now will function together fairly well. We have some guys that are VERY team oriented and coming out of systems that teach more of a team game. Nitty is young but well schooled and had some pro experience already. The jump for him may not be as drastic as one would expect for such a young player. They'll likely ease him into things.

Actually it would be good for the Knicks if they are bad next year. They are one piece - a stud small forward away from being serious contenders in the East.

The two stud small forwards in the 2018 draft at this early stage are Michael Porter and Luca Doncic both of whom will probably go top 5. This necessitates the Knicks being poor so they can land one of them.

In such a scenario the lineup is

Willie/KP C
Willie/KP PF
Porter/Doncic SF
THJR/Dotson SG
Frank/Baker PG

This is a lineup that can begin challenging in the East.

Thus, its important to let a Tank happen "organically".

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:This is why you trade Melo now, at his age and contract he is good enough to keep us from being in the lower lottery.
If the team without him does well, then it's because our yoot is really good!!!

Thus, its important to let a Tank happen "organically".

I've got news for you. This team isn't Tanking and they're not gonna be a top 5 Lotto team. The best young players on the team are going to show growth and the holes in the roster have been filled with capable players. They'll have a good bit of continuity too.

The Melo Trade is not going to diminish the squad in the way some think. If he's gone that just gives more touches to everyone else. Melo's not a defensive presence so if anything that should help tighten up the D. Ball movement should improve as well.

Hopefully they can get another pick in a trade for Melo. I just wouldn't hold out hope for another high Lotto from our own pick.

I would rather us try to be competitive playing our younger players versus purposely trying to be bad for the chance of getting a high pick.

Welpee wrote:I'm shocked that so many on this board want to tank in spite of the fact that over decades there are only isolated incidents in which it actually worked. Obviously if the season falls off the rails that's a different situation, but doing what Philly does and go into the season committed to the "process" (i.e. tanking)?

I would rather us try to be competitive playing our younger players versus purposely trying to be bad for the chance of getting a high pick.

The last time the Knicks won a championship was 1973 that was 44 years ago. For most of those years they have eschewed building through the draft trading away pick after pick and not surprisingly they have been among the worse franchises in the NBA.

The only sustained period of success came during the Patrick Ewing era and of course Ewing was obtained through the draft.

Now for the first time in years we as Knicks fan have a team to be excited about and whats causing the optimism? why of course it is the young players - KP, Willie, Frank, and Dotson. How were they acquired? surprise, surprise through the draft. By the way if you stretch it THJR could be included in the group since he was originally drafted by NY

The Knicks have one major need on this team now a bonafide superstar small forward. There are potentially two of them in the 2018 draft: Michael Porter and Luca Doncic. In all likelihood they will be among the first 5 players chosen. So when you say you are shocked so many want to tank. This is why. You tank so you have the opportunity to draft players like Porter and Doncic.

knicks1248 wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

Welpee wrote:I'm shocked that so many on this board want to tank in spite of the fact that over decades there are only isolated incidents in which it actually worked. Obviously if the season falls off the rails that's a different situation, but doing what Philly does and go into the season committed to the "process" (i.e. tanking)?

I would rather us try to be competitive playing our younger players versus purposely trying to be bad for the chance of getting a high pick.

The last time the Knicks won a championship was 1973 that was 44 years ago. For most of those years they have eschewed building through the draft trading away pick after pick and not surprisingly they have been among the worse franchises in the NBA.

The only sustained period of success came during the Patrick Ewing era and of course Ewing was obtained through the draft.

Now for the first time in years we as Knicks fan have a team to be excited about and whats causing the optimism? why of course it is the young players - KP, Willie, Frank, and Dotson. How were they acquired? surprise, surprise through the draft. By the way if you stretch it THJR could be included in the group since he was originally drafted by NY

The Knicks have one major need on this team now a bonafide superstar small forward. There are potentially two of them in the 2018 draft: Michael Porter and Luca Doncic. In all likelihood they will be among the first 5 players chosen. So when you say you are shocked so many want to tank. This is why. You tank so you have the opportunity to draft players like Porter and Doncic.

YOU have similar odd at hitting the POWER BALL, and of 10 million ppl played for the 700+ million jackpot, and 1 person hit..im not saying the odds are that bad, but you get my drift.

Patrick ewing era sustain elite status because proper fA were sign and proper trades were made...If you look at the roster to both of ewings knicks team (1994/1999) that went to the finals, it was mostly made up of 85% FA and trades.

you can fck up on a draft just as easily as a FA signing or trade. It's all about doing your diligent research

The ecoonomics have changed, then it was a no cap era. was drafted in 85', took 9 years to get to finals. Riley got lucky with Mase and Starks who came "free". Knicks were impatient making trades (Gerald Henderson trade for what became Pippen!!!)......Stupidity!!!! Traded Mark Jax for Rivers, traded away Strickland......Rolando, Kiki....all non factor trades. Not letting Ewing walk after 1996 was a mistake. Firing Don Nelson was a mistake.
Don't get me wrong, I love ewing but franchises have to make tough calls. Knicks/Dolan was too fearful.

Ain't I so smart in hindsight?

newyorknewyork wrote:Everything depends on situation. Given the Knicks situation, it would be waaay better for them in terms of building a championship contender to add one more high end lotto pick. That lotto pick holds major value either by trying to add another stud prospect through the draft or using it as trade bait to add a proven stud. Adding another lotto pick would give the Knicks 5-7(if Dotson & Baker become core role players) foundation pieces. Since the Knicks would have all their picks going forward and 5-7 young players developing already. Knicks could then package 1-2 future picks with players like Lee or KOQ & Lance to bring in a proven stud to go with the 5-7 developing players. And be set to challenge the ECC for multiple years.

newyorknewyork wrote:It shouldn't be about tanking though. It should be about development. For example some games giving Frank the ball late in the 4th quarter sink or swim. Finding mins for Dotson. Featuring KP waaay more. I would like to see Jeff demand Hardaway improve his dishing. Having Frank and Hardaway be a threat for 5 dimes a game each would be ideal.

Well isn't it what we are talking about the Knicks situation? We are Knicks fans after all.

When I talk about tanking I don't advocate the players trying to lose on purpose. They are competitors and I expect them to try and win. What I root for is the Knicks to secure the best possible draft pick while the players are ethically giving their best. What I do want is that management not bring in bloated contracts to win a few meaningless and in the process impede the chance of getting the best picks in the draft.

Finally, obviously, development of players is important, but you must have the talent to develop. This is the whole point of getting the best pick so you have access to the best players thereby securing the needed talent to develop

awe1028 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

Welpee wrote:I'm shocked that so many on this board want to tank in spite of the fact that over decades there are only isolated incidents in which it actually worked. Obviously if the season falls off the rails that's a different situation, but doing what Philly does and go into the season committed to the "process" (i.e. tanking)?

I would rather us try to be competitive playing our younger players versus purposely trying to be bad for the chance of getting a high pick.

The last time the Knicks won a championship was 1973 that was 44 years ago. For most of those years they have eschewed building through the draft trading away pick after pick and not surprisingly they have been among the worse franchises in the NBA.

The only sustained period of success came during the Patrick Ewing era and of course Ewing was obtained through the draft.

Now for the first time in years we as Knicks fan have a team to be excited about and whats causing the optimism? why of course it is the young players - KP, Willie, Frank, and Dotson. How were they acquired? surprise, surprise through the draft. By the way if you stretch it THJR could be included in the group since he was originally drafted by NY

The Knicks have one major need on this team now a bonafide superstar small forward. There are potentially two of them in the 2018 draft: Michael Porter and Luca Doncic. In all likelihood they will be among the first 5 players chosen. So when you say you are shocked so many want to tank. This is why. You tank so you have the opportunity to draft players like Porter and Doncic.

YOU have similar odd at hitting the POWER BALL, and of 10 million ppl played for the 700+ million jackpot, and 1 person hit..im not saying the odds are that bad, but you get my drift.

Patrick ewing era sustain elite status because proper fA were sign and proper trades were made...If you look at the roster to both of ewings knicks team (1994/1999) that went to the finals, it was mostly made up of 85% FA and trades.

you can fck up on a draft just as easily as a FA signing or trade. It's all about doing your diligent research

The bolded is just plain silly. Obviously if the Knicks are picking 14th in the draft the odds are less. However I am talking about a true tank where the Knicks have one of the very worse records in the NBA. In such a scenario the odds of picking in the top 5 top 3 even number one while not a guarantee is certainly a whole lot better than going for the powerball.

In my previous post I gave examples of how much better the team is viewed when it builds through the draft (Patrick, KP Willie etc)as opposed to when they give out bloated contracts (Noah,Lee).

However looking around the NBA you see even more examples of how team who build through the draft have the kind of success - dominant sustained success that any smart fan base would want

GSW: Steph, Klay, Draymond all acquired through the draft - Considered by almost everyone the best team in the NBA

Cleveland: Lebron best player in the NBA acquired vis the draft. Best team in the East Second best team in the NBA

Oklahoma City: Russ, Harden, KD all acquired through the draft. Imagine that team if it could have kept the core together

San Antonio: Admiral, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili - Admiral gets hurt SA gets Tim with # 1 pick- the rest is history 5 Championships

Orlando: Shaq, Penny Nick Anderson acquired through the draft. How many championships if Orlando had not screwed up.

Houston: Hakeem the dream acquired through the draft - 2 championships

Chicago: Michael Jordan need I say more

Honorable Mention: Philadelph8ia: This team has not won a championship or even made the playoffs in recent years but with all that drafted talent, who would not want to be in the 76ers shoes right now

those players left(shaq/lbj/harden) or got traded, and it's cool to list a handful teams that lucked up, but I can list at least 4 handful of teams that could not come close to building with their picks..

where are all of our picks from 2004 to 2015, with only 3 playoff appearances

knicks1248 wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

Welpee wrote:I'm shocked that so many on this board want to tank in spite of the fact that over decades there are only isolated incidents in which it actually worked. Obviously if the season falls off the rails that's a different situation, but doing what Philly does and go into the season committed to the "process" (i.e. tanking)?

I would rather us try to be competitive playing our younger players versus purposely trying to be bad for the chance of getting a high pick.

The last time the Knicks won a championship was 1973 that was 44 years ago. For most of those years they have eschewed building through the draft trading away pick after pick and not surprisingly they have been among the worse franchises in the NBA.

The only sustained period of success came during the Patrick Ewing era and of course Ewing was obtained through the draft.

Now for the first time in years we as Knicks fan have a team to be excited about and whats causing the optimism? why of course it is the young players - KP, Willie, Frank, and Dotson. How were they acquired? surprise, surprise through the draft. By the way if you stretch it THJR could be included in the group since he was originally drafted by NY

The Knicks have one major need on this team now a bonafide superstar small forward. There are potentially two of them in the 2018 draft: Michael Porter and Luca Doncic. In all likelihood they will be among the first 5 players chosen. So when you say you are shocked so many want to tank. This is why. You tank so you have the opportunity to draft players like Porter and Doncic.

YOU have similar odd at hitting the POWER BALL, and of 10 million ppl played for the 700+ million jackpot, and 1 person hit..im not saying the odds are that bad, but you get my drift.

Patrick ewing era sustain elite status because proper fA were sign and proper trades were made...If you look at the roster to both of ewings knicks team (1994/1999) that went to the finals, it was mostly made up of 85% FA and trades.

you can fck up on a draft just as easily as a FA signing or trade. It's all about doing your diligent research

The bolded is just plain silly. Obviously if the Knicks are picking 14th in the draft the odds are less. However I am talking about a true tank where the Knicks have one of the very worse records in the NBA. In such a scenario the odds of picking in the top 5 top 3 even number one while not a guarantee is certainly a whole lot better than going for the powerball.

In my previous post I gave examples of how much better the team is viewed when it builds through the draft (Patrick, KP Willie etc)as opposed to when they give out bloated contracts (Noah,Lee).

However looking around the NBA you see even more examples of how team who build through the draft have the kind of success - dominant sustained success that any smart fan base would want

GSW: Steph, Klay, Draymond all acquired through the draft - Considered by almost everyone the best team in the NBA

Cleveland: Lebron best player in the NBA acquired vis the draft. Best team in the East Second best team in the NBA

Oklahoma City: Russ, Harden, KD all acquired through the draft. Imagine that team if it could have kept the core together

San Antonio: Admiral, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili - Admiral gets hurt SA gets Tim with # 1 pick- the rest is history 5 Championships

Orlando: Shaq, Penny Nick Anderson acquired through the draft. How many championships if Orlando had not screwed up.

Houston: Hakeem the dream acquired through the draft - 2 championships

Chicago: Michael Jordan need I say more

Honorable Mention: Philadelph8ia: This team has not won a championship or even made the playoffs in recent years but with all that drafted talent, who would not want to be in the 76ers shoes right now

those players left(shaq/lbj/harden) or got traded, and it's cool to list a handful teams that lucked up, but I can list at least 4 handful of teams that could not come close to building with their picks..

where are all of our picks from 2004 to 2015, with only 3 playoff appearances

In that period, Knicks have had only one top five pick (KP). They only had 3 more in the top 15. That's 4 in the 12 drafts you cited.

And Frye, Gallo and Jordan have had decent careers relative to their preposition.

awe1028 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

Marv wrote:I revisited a number of "nitty's" videos. I'm down with this kid. I see a lot of chauncey in this kid. And like chauncey it might take a little while to all gel. And when it does, i think we're going to have one of the top guards in the league. Hope we have the patience that boston didn't. He grows with zingis, billy, tim, dotson, we got our core.

I agree full heartedly, I see a lot of bullips in him as well with maybe more upside interms of length and hight! If we have the next bullips on our hands Watch out!

The thing is, Billups was on some really bad teams early in his career and despite his talent, he was traded. Thats what always happens when you got young talented guys on a losing team.

I don't expect that this Knicks team will be so bad that they'd break it up anytime soon. I actually think the kinds of players they have now will function together fairly well. We have some guys that are VERY team oriented and coming out of systems that teach more of a team game. Nitty is young but well schooled and had some pro experience already. The jump for him may not be as drastic as one would expect for such a young player. They'll likely ease him into things.

Actually it would be good for the Knicks if they are bad next year. They are one piece - a stud small forward away from being serious contenders in the East.

The two stud small forwards in the 2018 draft at this early stage are Michael Porter and Luca Doncic both of whom will probably go top 5. This necessitates the Knicks being poor so they can land one of them.

In such a scenario the lineup is

Willie/KP C
Willie/KP PF
Porter/Doncic SF
THJR/Dotson SG
Frank/Baker PG

This is a lineup that can begin challenging in the East.

Yep exactly the reason this season should of been tanked, hard