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crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

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https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/852956631373565953

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about bringing back Rose.

I don't know if we can get a guy like Jrue Holiday, Teague, or George Hill in FA though.

Don't think Phil wants him back...no way.

He is not even a player that moves well without the ball, so if he is an off guard he will still have to do his normal thing.

If Rose had great court vision I'd put up with his defensive deficiencies, but perimeter D is essential.

He said Rose plays well with Noah...I think he brings Rose back so Noah doesn't die on the vine..

Man you take everything out of context or are not really paying attention. I think the statement was about previous to this year. That those guys had played together and maybe that would help the team and both of them out. It was quite clear to me that Rose is going to be an afterthought going forward.

You know what..I don't have the energy at the moment...We can pick this up later...The Organization is lost with Phil is what I took from that press conference..He has no plan...

Your comments are an anti-Phil monologue that has no plan to end. People like you who twist every word are the reason no one wants to talk to the press anymore. Putting an Orwellian spin on the presser is not even something you're good at. Go get your rest.

There was no Orwell. It was a fake apology. "I didn't take any jump shots, I didn't make any substitutions, but sure yeah it's my fault I guess..."

Before going into blaming Melo's resistance to the Triangle for the losing season.

A question I would've asked Phil - Where was Melo's resistance to the Triangle under Fisher last year?

Was Frank Isola writing hit pieces when the team looked like it had a direction and some promise? That looks pretty positive to me. I wonder why Melo moved the ball more last season and magically stopped this season? Could it have been roster makeup? Could it have been the coach? Who was in charge of those things?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-potential-game-winner-fall-short-spurs-article-1.2490721

Melo was worse this year because he's aging. And because the roster makeup sucked and the coach was a step back from Fisher on the floor at least. And as Phil said when he was writing as "Charlie Rosen", KP wasn't the same after his Christmas achilles injury. Noah was a net negative waste. Rose was non-existent on D and then even more non-existent when he went AWOL.

And guess what - When Melo bought into the Triangle last year? The team still sucked. 32 wins when Melo buys in and 31 wins when he doesn't. Maaaaaaybe Phil is focusing on the wrong narrative.

Obviously it is time to move on from Melo. But Phil's continued obsession of guys who buy into the Triangle, and his continual poo-poo-ing of the three point shot, and his continual lack of focus on the defensive side of the ball in roster construction will have a lot more to do with shaping this team than trading Melo for Austin Rivers.

I'm sorry. Did Phil give a second press conference because he did not say what you claim he said in the one I watched.

THIS, "I didn't take any jump shots, I didn't make any substitutions, but sure yeah it's my fault I guess..." is bullsh@t.

What Phil ended the sentence was "the buck stops here". That wasn't a fake apology or an apology at all. That was an executive saying, "I can't lace them up but I'm going to fix it". And by fixing it he means Melo is gone as any kind of centerpiece for this team. And Phil's advice that melo doesn't want to go out this way was not only good advice but a reality check. "You [Melo] stay and you'll ride the bench."

Is your claim that melo didn't resist? That he played both ends of the court and held everyone else to account when they weren't playing the right way? That's not what I saw. What becomes more obvious is a player willing to throw games to get his way. Not cool on a whole lot of levels.

and when you say, "32 wins when Melo buys in and 31 wins when he doesn't" you are making the point that he brings nothing to the team. Nothing.

Yes, I'm also making the point that Melo is not the main issue.

My point was Melo bought in under Fisher and took an inferior roster to 22-22 before the injuries started. He didn't buy in under Hornacek. I'm not convinced it's Melo's fault. Did Rose go AWOL because of Melo? Did Noah take supplements because of Melo? Did KP strain his Achilles because of Melo? Did Melo tell Hornacek in their very first pre-season game to not even mention defense once?

If Melo is taking most of the shots and playing top minutes then he is the main issue. His offense is putrid shooting 43%. His defense nothing to brag about. His passing game has regressed. Holds the ball and stops ball movement. Absolutely no leadership. Leaving is a really good move for him and the Knicks.

martin wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:He said he thought the players at the end of the year was successful...They played hard defense...He gets sucked in by Admunson, Galloway, Baker, Plumlee and N'Dour trying to stick in the NDA..These guy can't win games...

So I don't get a comment like this. Phil was obviously talking about playing team ball and what that takes. Max effort and moving and passing and defense. And in those terms he found it better.

Winning/not winning, that may be a product of all of those things plus talent.

But he has to recognize who these guys are and why they are playing that way...They are trying to stick...Vets manage their time and minutes of the year..I think KP perfectly illustrates this...last year KP went all out and was flying all over the place..I thought this year, after playing a full season, he tried to manage his time and effort to be fresh over the course of a year..He go injured and didn't work out but vets won't do that game in and game out...Ball movement I get but the defense like that is taxing...

WTF is that mean? The defense like that is taxing?

Max effort and team ball. You don't guy into that, get off the team. I understand playing smartly so as to not get injured but that's not really the point. The point is not taking plays off on one side of the court.

But he has to recognize who these guys are and why they are playing that way...They are trying to stick...Vets manage their time and minutes of the year

I don't get this either? You don't think Phil understand or recognize who these guys are? That they are fighting for jobs? Of course man. They are also playing the right way. Max effort and team ball. Get with the program or get out.

I actually understand what holfresh is trying to get at...just a matter of pacing yourself. There is a tradeoff on the offensive end when you're defending every play like it is the last play of the finals.

Usual time to take a "rest" is on the offensive end, but here is where the Triangle becomes an issue for certain players because you always have to be on the move. Think about how some players stand around on offense waiting for the ball to be kicked out to them for a 3. Not much energy expended.

Then you look at Baker or Sasha and how they are moving on the court. Have to be an elite athlete to play truly tough D and also move around on offense like the Triangle calls for you to do, OR you have to be a 20MPG guy who can go hard because he knows he won't be on the court for 35 minutes each night.

Rose was clearly more concerned with saving his energy for the offensive end...and it showed when he was on D, and this is the reason why Phil will not resign him. Rose is not going to change his game at this point, and Phil must know this.

teams that are in deep playoff hunt.... do you they take plays off? Is Pop OK with this? GS teams? Do they have players that take plays off?

I don't think so.

Was the gist of what Phil was getting at really about maxing effort/team ball throughout or nuancing how to pace yourself throughout the whole season?

Can a team do a full-court press 48 minutes each game where your starters are playing 35MPG?

Admit that I am playing a bit of devil's advocate here, but I see tradeoffs by players all the time. You see situational hustle where you play harder at certain times in a game.

Hard to play 35MPG at full throttle for every play. Not all players can do this without seeing their game suffer.You need a deep team to do this kind of thing.

I would say the playoffs are a different situation.

crzymdups wrote:

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https://twitter.com/lockedonknicks/status/853004140313751555

Most of what they have a problem with is Phil's personality and manner of speaking. Admitted that Phil is a strange guy and not easy to understand. Still this isn't really a situation where Phil is necessarily wrong in what he's looking to do. He's just offputting in how he goes about doing his job.

WaltLongmire wrote:

martin wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:He said he thought the players at the end of the year was successful...They played hard defense...He gets sucked in by Admunson, Galloway, Baker, Plumlee and N'Dour trying to stick in the NDA..These guy can't win games...

So I don't get a comment like this. Phil was obviously talking about playing team ball and what that takes. Max effort and moving and passing and defense. And in those terms he found it better.

Winning/not winning, that may be a product of all of those things plus talent.

But he has to recognize who these guys are and why they are playing that way...They are trying to stick...Vets manage their time and minutes of the year..I think KP perfectly illustrates this...last year KP went all out and was flying all over the place..I thought this year, after playing a full season, he tried to manage his time and effort to be fresh over the course of a year..He go injured and didn't work out but vets won't do that game in and game out...Ball movement I get but the defense like that is taxing...

WTF is that mean? The defense like that is taxing?

Max effort and team ball. You don't guy into that, get off the team. I understand playing smartly so as to not get injured but that's not really the point. The point is not taking plays off on one side of the court.

But he has to recognize who these guys are and why they are playing that way...They are trying to stick...Vets manage their time and minutes of the year

I don't get this either? You don't think Phil understand or recognize who these guys are? That they are fighting for jobs? Of course man. They are also playing the right way. Max effort and team ball. Get with the program or get out.

I actually understand what holfresh is trying to get at...just a matter of pacing yourself. There is a tradeoff on the offensive end when you're defending every play like it is the last play of the finals.

Usual time to take a "rest" is on the offensive end, but here is where the Triangle becomes an issue for certain players because you always have to be on the move. Think about how some players stand around on offense waiting for the ball to be kicked out to them for a 3. Not much energy expended.

Then you look at Baker or Sasha and how they are moving on the court. Have to be an elite athlete to play truly tough D and also move around on offense like the Triangle calls for you to do, OR you have to be a 20MPG guy who can go hard because he knows he won't be on the court for 35 minutes each night.

Rose was clearly more concerned with saving his energy for the offensive end...and it showed when he was on D, and this is the reason why Phil will not resign him. Rose is not going to change his game at this point, and Phil must know this.

teams that are in deep playoff hunt.... do you they take plays off? Is Pop OK with this? GS teams? Do they have players that take plays off?

I don't think so.

Was the gist of what Phil was getting at really about maxing effort/team ball throughout or nuancing how to pace yourself throughout the whole season?

Was talking about hofresh's take on it.

Can a team do a full-court press 48 minutes each game where your starters are playing 35MPG?

Admit that I am playing a bit of devil's advocate here, but I see tradeoffs by players all the time. You see situational hustle where you play harder at certain times in a game.

Hard to play 35MPG at full throttle for every play. Not all players can do this without seeing their game suffer.You need a deep team to do this kind of thing.

I would say the playoffs are a different situation.

If you look at the really successful teams, they're deep. Stars don't play 40 minutes a night anymore. You can't and go hard like Kawhi and Lebron or Draymond. Melo in some ways never understood that. He would rather play 38min and take plays off than go 30min and go all out. I don't know if he was in the shape for it or physically able after all his knee debridements and shoulder surgeries. But I do think Fisher was better about getting him to make that trade off.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/853005181809811456

It's really amazing how some people here don't get that Phil and Dolan are straight up reviled around the league.

Right..Harvey Araton who hates Melo said earlier that all the Knick players hate Phil..But many here like to pretend it's just a Melo/Phil thing...And Melo is the only guy resistant to the triangle..I believe Melo was the spokeman during the infamous meeting where they told Phil they wanted to move away from the triangle..So Phil is probably lying in the presser saying the guys at the top(Melo) was resistant..But it was the entire team...Phil want to make an example of Melo I think...

Lying like that is how you lose KP's loyalty....

PLEASE! KP said he likes the Triangle and thinks the team should've focused on it from day one. THe Kids all seemed to love playing Team Ball in the Motion Offense. I just don't think the narrative you want to be true is supported by the facts.

“We’re starting to learn it now the way we should [and] we should have been playing from the beginning of the season,” Porzingis said “So we’re a little behind. But every game we’re getting a little better. Hopefully, I don’t know when, we can start using it properly and making some impact playing it.”

“I like the triangle,” Porzingis said. “My first season, the whole first season we played nothing but the triangle so I know it pretty well. I like the offense. It can only work if everybody believes in it and everybody executes it the right way.”

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/kristaps-porzingis-a-fan-of-the-knicks-triangle-offense-1.13193523

Melo's REALLY is saying Phil is lying in the press conference..KP likes him means KP agrees...

KP saying the organization is a mess from "TOP to BOTTOM"..Keep pretending...

Uptown wrote:Mike Francesa is spot on regarding phil....

Been saying it for three years...

holfresh wrote:What you saw is a guy who shouldn't be the President of Basketball Operations...Phil doesn't know how to lead an organization..He is a coach at heart...

Francesa seconds this...

holfresh wrote:

holfresh wrote:What you saw is a guy who shouldn't be the President of Basketball Operations...Phil doesn't know how to lead an organization..He is a coach at heart...

Francesa seconds this...

It was clear for anyone to see who are not looking through Zen-like-lenses...