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OT: Melo Steps Forward
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Uptown
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7/11/2016  10:39 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:Some interesting points raised.

First and foremost we can only attempt to stop racism by first accepting that its a reality and then holding anyone accountable who is willing to use racism for decision making. If no one has to be held accountable for racism then it will be the same old story. Or maybe we should just wait until one day everyone is 100% morally enlightened then racism will take care of itself.

That woman who was raped by the Stanford swimmer. What if I took the stance that she had the freedom to not go to college parties. That she had the freedom to not drink. That rape will one day stop when everyone decides that its morally wrong and we should just look forward to that day. She shouldn't be tooo upset since some places in the middle east the rape and molest women and children all the time. So its justified for the judge to give him such a light sentence. Or cops have the freedom to have other careers so officers getting killed on the job isn't a big deal.

In this thread there are many non African Americans attempting to speak on the experience of African Americans in America which is flawed in it self. Arkud you are of Russian decent. Have you and your friend growing up in America ever been kicked out of house parties due to Russian stereotypes instantly making you a threat? Have you ever been in a predominantly white neighborhood. Followed then stopped by the police, then asked what you were doing in said town. Then told to go back to where you came from? Have you had to have conversations with your children that they might get killed by the police because they are viewed as a bigger threat due to there skin color?

When I was around 9-10 I got into a fight with another kid who was white. I punched him a few times, He kicked me in the face with some karate kick. He decided he didn't want to fight anymore and walked away with some blood inside his cheek. And we left it at that. I was later arrested and brought to the police station. Nobody cared for my side of the story. No officers ever asked me what happen or why we fought. All that mattered was that his white mother was upset her child got into a fight. Since I was black I was instantly guilty. It couldn't just be 2 little kids had a disagreement fought it out and went there separate ways.

And that is petty stuff on my end. How many of you can identify with being arrested for fitting the description or charged with crimes you didn't commit and pressured to take plea deals with the threat of max charges.

Many urban communities have and admitted horrible education system meaning no hope for future and go through an admitted jacked up criminal system. African Americans can move out of the poor urban communities. Work two jobs in order to keep up with expenses in order to make sure there child receives a better education. This may save that one family. But none of this improves that community they left. All it does is enhance the community that was already good. Meanwhile many more other families that fail to pull this off get stuck in the cycle.

Family structure is very important and key as touched on many times. You know what destroys family structure? Throwing one out three in jail. Murdering members of households.

Immigrants can never challenge government or protest there rights they are not a threat to anyone in positions of power.

Realest post in this thread....Hope everyone takes the time to read this...

AUTOADVERT
NardDogNation
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7/11/2016  10:43 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
dk7th wrote:1) the nra needs to be demolished and gun shows heavily proctored where all invitees are thoroughly checked.
2) the second amendment needs to be re-written to ban semi-automatic weapons from both citizenry and the regular police forces. possessors of any such weapons should be tried for treason and put in jail for lengthy prison terms. **** "originalism."
3) marijuana needs to be legalized and heavily regulated and taxed
4) the very wealthiest should be taxed heavily and the majority of funds should be diverted to pre-k through grammar school programs for inner city minorities
5) teachers in inner city pre-k through grammar school programs should be amply rewarded to the degree they are trained and vetted for this work
6) police forces must be representative of the communities they are meant to serve, and if a demographic changes rapidly, such as in ferguson, then the policemen need to be relocated to other communities or furloughed by some federal oversight. this is similar to members of the army and their families.
7) every citizen between the ages of 18-24 must serve in the military for two years in a defensive capacity, defending our borders and ports.

that would be a good start.

Not bad proposals. I'd also want to expand no.5 to include the creation of teaching assistants for the classroom. I think it is simply unreasonable in this day and age to expect teachers to handle classrooms of 20 or more students without some assistance in helping keep the room orderly. We're able to spend $500,000 or your standard conventional bomb....we should be able to pay for programs like this.

And if funding does become a problem, I'd like to see Estate Taxes increased exponentially. I feel no one person should be inheriting more than $5 million worth of net assets under any circumstance. The last thing this society needs are more Donald Trumps of the world that clearly are not worthy of being a leader of anything simply by birth-right. You want to be a part of the ruling class, earn it and prove your utility to the whole.

My prescription? Jobs and more jobs. When communities have plenty of jobs to offer, the crime rate and drug use plummets. They have tax zones to encourage growth but it would be more effective IMO to support the creation of black owned busineses by giving the same kind of loans the government has been giving to the big banks since the great recession, zero interest, to qualified candidates. End the use of how wealthy communities are determining how well schools are funded. Has to be more equitable. Wealthy communities have the tax base to properly fund schools, poor communities (of all colors) do not, even with govt help.

Rigorous psychological testing of prospective and current law enforcement should be mandatory. Something effective, while at the same time protect an officer's right to challenge any finding. I would also have a transaction tax on Wall Street to pay for much needed infrastructure improvements, education funding, and reduce military spending by at least a third (no cuts to vets) If we didnt already spend more than all the other rival powers combined, I would be more concerned about the effect of such cuts. There are many generals who say they dont need a new system, but get one expensive system after another shoved down their throats anyway. This isn't about defense. They wanted to replace the A-10 Warthog, and it took a groundwell of protest from the troops fighting overseas to stop it. Its out of control.

How realistic is job creation in the age of automation though? Technology has developed to the point that even sweat shop labor might be too high an overhead. Hell, companies like Amazon already seem to be on the verge of completely removing humans from the equation:


....all of this makes me wonder how feasible is it to bring jobs back to America. And right now, it seems so difficult to create jobs through small businesses because of how difficult it is to compete against corporations. It all makes me skeptical that taxes can be a long-term solution to achieving an appropriate balance in this respect.

But I agree completely with you on the need for a better screening process for police officers. I've known several in my life....and they've been some of the most morally bankrupt, set of morons I've encountered. One even has shot a teenager in the back and tried to make the claim that his life was in danger. There simply needs to be a higher standard for people that are given guns on behalf of the state. Was just watching a video today of how a couple, UNARMED officers from Sweden managed to de-escalate a hostile situation on the subway in a firm yet courteous manner. We need that patrolling our streets:

As for military spending, we might be able to cut 2/3 of it and still be safe from any international threat, especially when you consider that most of the top spenders are allies. However, much of the technological innovation we've seen in the private sector were once military projects funded by the public e.g. aircraft, jet engines, wireless communications, nuclear technology, etc. We need to make the need for alternative energy a matter of national security and begin making "green weapons" to help us transition off of oil. If we can do that, I could tolerate our current level of military spending. If not, cut, cut and cut.


P.S., the fact that they were trying to retire the A-10 is ridiculous especially considering the type of enemy we've been fighting. It's inexpensive and specificially designed for close air support. You'd think they'd instead try to update it instead.

gunsnewing
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7/11/2016  10:59 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
dk7th wrote:1) the nra needs to be demolished and gun shows heavily proctored where all invitees are thoroughly checked.
2) the second amendment needs to be re-written to ban semi-automatic weapons from both citizenry and the regular police forces. possessors of any such weapons should be tried for treason and put in jail for lengthy prison terms. **** "originalism."
3) marijuana needs to be legalized and heavily regulated and taxed
4) the very wealthiest should be taxed heavily and the majority of funds should be diverted to pre-k through grammar school programs for inner city minorities
5) teachers in inner city pre-k through grammar school programs should be amply rewarded to the degree they are trained and vetted for this work
6) police forces must be representative of the communities they are meant to serve, and if a demographic changes rapidly, such as in ferguson, then the policemen need to be relocated to other communities or furloughed by some federal oversight. this is similar to members of the army and their families.
7) every citizen between the ages of 18-24 must serve in the military for two years in a defensive capacity, defending our borders and ports.

that would be a good start.

Not bad proposals. I'd also want to expand no.5 to include the creation of teaching assistants for the classroom. I think it is simply unreasonable in this day and age to expect teachers to handle classrooms of 20 or more students without some assistance in helping keep the room orderly. We're able to spend $500,000 or your standard conventional bomb....we should be able to pay for programs like this.

And if funding does become a problem, I'd like to see Estate Taxes increased exponentially. I feel no one person should be inheriting more than $5 million worth of net assets under any circumstance. The last thing this society needs are more Donald Trumps of the world that clearly are not worthy of being a leader of anything simply by birth-right. You want to be a part of the ruling class, earn it and prove your utility to the whole.

My prescription? Jobs and more jobs. When communities have plenty of jobs to offer, the crime rate and drug use plummets. They have tax zones to encourage growth but it would be more effective IMO to support the creation of black owned busineses by giving the same kind of loans the government has been giving to the big banks since the great recession, zero interest, to qualified candidates. End the use of how wealthy communities are determining how well schools are funded. Has to be more equitable. Wealthy communities have the tax base to properly fund schools, poor communities (of all colors) do not, even with govt help.

Rigorous psychological testing of prospective and current law enforcement should be mandatory. Something effective, while at the same time protect an officer's right to challenge any finding. I would also have a transaction tax on Wall Street to pay for much needed infrastructure improvements, education funding, and reduce military spending by at least a third (no cuts to vets) If we didnt already spend more than all the other rival powers combined, I would be more concerned about the effect of such cuts. There are many generals who say they dont need a new system, but get one expensive system after another shoved down their throats anyway. This isn't about defense. They wanted to replace the A-10 Warthog, and it took a groundwell of protest from the troops fighting overseas to stop it. Its out of control.

Absolutely! More America jobs will do a lot to help but it won't solve all our problems. It won't make us better people. First we need to fix some fundamental societal human issues and we need strong unifying leadership. I had to give up being democrat because something went array along the way. I can never stand for the dishonesty and intolerance of the left and I will be voting for Trump primarily because of his common sense over pandering to the politically correct and lies.

gunsnewing
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7/11/2016  11:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/11/2016  11:28 PM
arkrud wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
fishmike wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
dk7th wrote:1) the nra needs to be demolished and gun shows heavily proctored where all invitees are thoroughly checked.
2) the second amendment needs to be re-written to ban semi-automatic weapons from both citizenry and the regular police forces. possessors of any such weapons should be tried for treason and put in jail for lengthy prison terms. **** "originalism."
3) marijuana needs to be legalized and heavily regulated and taxed
4) the very wealthiest should be taxed heavily and the majority of funds should be diverted to pre-k through grammar school programs for inner city minorities
5) teachers in inner city pre-k through grammar school programs should be amply rewarded to the degree they are trained and vetted for this work
6) police forces must be representative of the communities they are meant to serve, and if a demographic changes rapidly, such as in ferguson, then the policemen need to be relocated to other communities or furloughed by some federal oversight. this is similar to members of the army and their families.
7) every citizen between the ages of 18-24 must serve in the military for two years in a defensive capacity, defending our borders and ports.

that would be a good start.

Not bad proposals. I'd also want to expand no.5 to include the creation of teaching assistants for the classroom. I think it is simply unreasonable in this day and age to expect teachers to handle classrooms of 20 or more students without some assistance in helping keep the room orderly. We're able to spend $500,000 or your standard conventional bomb....we should be able to pay for programs like this.

And if funding does become a problem, I'd like to see Estate Taxes increased exponentially. I feel no one person should be inheriting more than $5 million worth of net assets under any circumstance. The last thing this society needs are more Donald Trumps of the world that clearly are not worthy of being a leader of anything simply by birth-right. You want to be a part of the ruling class, earn it and prove your utility to the whole.

those are pie in the sky proposals that indicate little understanding of how the gov work.

Also we are not a socialist state. This proposal to take away rich peoples money, keep it from their children and "make them earn it" is un-American. Tim Duncan has two kids. So if he and his wife die in a car crash his kids should only get $5mm each and the rest of the $100mm of his estate should go to inner city educational funds? Lets the gov decide what to do with it? Is that it?

Read about the NRA lobby, the size of its membership and its power in Washington, and why it exists in the first place. Dumping the NRA is as good a suggestion as "we should all just stop fighting and love each other." Good sentiments, no basis in reality.

Im not trying to throw water on your discussion or ideas, simply suggest that some things can be accomplished and others cannot, at least as the game is currently constructed. Might want to focus on what can be accomplished.

Start with decriminalizing all drugs. I think it was mentioned someone in the thread but those stiff laws go back the to Nixon administration where heroin (blacks) and marijuana (anti gov hippies) were used to all the gov to control groups it viewed as a threat. Now those laws just are avenues to continue the criminalization of poor minorities, the incarceration of the men/fathers of those communities, and rendering those lives as "don't matter."

Tough issues with generations of laws of lousy thinking to cut through

If those are pie-in-the-sky ideas, why does it seem that every industrialized country has managed to put these or similar measures into practice? Israel (and Turkey, I believe) has mandatory military-service laws. Weed is legal in Amsterdam(the Netherlands). France has very tight gun control laws and no viable opposition to them. So why can't we make in-roads to doing the same in this country?

And what founding document of our country articulates how our economy is suppose to function? And does it define an aggressive Estate Tax as explicitly "un-American"? If so, how or why? And if it's against socialist policies, how have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and the like been deemed Constitutional?

As for what I'd spend the increased revenue on, it'd basically look like the Bernie Sanders playbook: massive infrastructure investments, public (and inexpensive) healthcare for all, massive re-investment in public universities, etc.

Be careful at what you wish for...
Look at Russia, Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, etc.
How socialism worked out for them? Not very cool.

and Brazil. I always get a kick out of Americans wanting socialism. What ends up happening is you relinquish your freedom and give the complete control to blatantly you as citizens. I know because my cousin is one of the ones impeached and indited on charges from Brazil's latest corruption scandals. I've seen how radical far left politicians are capable of ripping off a entire country and reap the benefits first hand

gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
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Member: #215
USA
7/11/2016  11:08 PM
fishmike wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
fishmike wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
dk7th wrote:1) the nra needs to be demolished and gun shows heavily proctored where all invitees are thoroughly checked.
2) the second amendment needs to be re-written to ban semi-automatic weapons from both citizenry and the regular police forces. possessors of any such weapons should be tried for treason and put in jail for lengthy prison terms. **** "originalism."
3) marijuana needs to be legalized and heavily regulated and taxed
4) the very wealthiest should be taxed heavily and the majority of funds should be diverted to pre-k through grammar school programs for inner city minorities
5) teachers in inner city pre-k through grammar school programs should be amply rewarded to the degree they are trained and vetted for this work
6) police forces must be representative of the communities they are meant to serve, and if a demographic changes rapidly, such as in ferguson, then the policemen need to be relocated to other communities or furloughed by some federal oversight. this is similar to members of the army and their families.
7) every citizen between the ages of 18-24 must serve in the military for two years in a defensive capacity, defending our borders and ports.

that would be a good start.

Not bad proposals. I'd also want to expand no.5 to include the creation of teaching assistants for the classroom. I think it is simply unreasonable in this day and age to expect teachers to handle classrooms of 20 or more students without some assistance in helping keep the room orderly. We're able to spend $500,000 or your standard conventional bomb....we should be able to pay for programs like this.

And if funding does become a problem, I'd like to see Estate Taxes increased exponentially. I feel no one person should be inheriting more than $5 million worth of net assets under any circumstance. The last thing this society needs are more Donald Trumps of the world that clearly are not worthy of being a leader of anything simply by birth-right. You want to be a part of the ruling class, earn it and prove your utility to the whole.

those are pie in the sky proposals that indicate little understanding of how the gov work.

Also we are not a socialist state. This proposal to take away rich peoples money, keep it from their children and "make them earn it" is un-American. Tim Duncan has two kids. So if he and his wife die in a car crash his kids should only get $5mm each and the rest of the $100mm of his estate should go to inner city educational funds? Lets the gov decide what to do with it? Is that it?

Read about the NRA lobby, the size of its membership and its power in Washington, and why it exists in the first place. Dumping the NRA is as good a suggestion as "we should all just stop fighting and love each other." Good sentiments, no basis in reality.

Im not trying to throw water on your discussion or ideas, simply suggest that some things can be accomplished and others cannot, at least as the game is currently constructed. Might want to focus on what can be accomplished.

Start with decriminalizing all drugs. I think it was mentioned someone in the thread but those stiff laws go back the to Nixon administration where heroin (blacks) and marijuana (anti gov hippies) were used to all the gov to control groups it viewed as a threat. Now those laws just are avenues to continue the criminalization of poor minorities, the incarceration of the men/fathers of those communities, and rendering those lives as "don't matter."

Tough issues with generations of laws of lousy thinking to cut through

If those are pie-in-the-sky ideas, why does it seem that every industrialized country has managed to put these or similar measures into practice? Israel (and Turkey, I believe) has mandatory military-service laws. Weed is legal in Amsterdam(the Netherlands). France has very tight gun control laws and no viable opposition to them. So why can't we make in-roads to doing the same in this country?

And what founding document of our country articulates how our economy is suppose to function? And does it define an aggressive Estate Tax as explicitly "un-American"? If so, how or why? And if it's against socialist policies, how have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and the like been deemed Constitutional?

As for what I'd spend the increased revenue on, it'd basically look like the Bernie Sanders playbook: massive infrastructure investments, public (and inexpensive) healthcare for all, massive re-investment in public universities, etc.

it may see that way, but is it reality? I don't want to emulate France in any way aside from their work culture. That country has huge problems. You cant really cherry pick the good from each country and ask why we cant do that.

Gun are protected by the constitution and until you can elect politicians that don't cater to that lobby you are stuck with status quo.

Israel faces geophraphic threats that US does not. If Canadians and Mexicans wanted to kill us with the same fervor as the Israeli neighbors I am sure an "everyone serving" type policy would work.

As for the bold you aren't talking about the economy, you are talking about taking from the rich to feed the poor. US was founded on small gov and the rights of the individual. Those rights are protected by "due process." It takes an awful lot to change those laws. Laws that are created by elected officials. See how that works? What does it take to get elected? What runs all those campaigns large or small? Money. Things like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are social programs. Not much different than welfare or education... Stuff we are taxed for. How to spend the taxes? That's the thing elected officials run on. Politicians promised to put those programs into place. For laws to be passed that heavily tax the rich... well they need to get passed. So you will need enough votes in congress to get those laws passed. First you have to get someone to propose them in the first place, THEN you have to get them passed. The rich folks that fund these politicians (yes, even democrats) are not super excited to support lawmakers who are focused on hurting their wealth and position in this country.

Laws are written to protect the rights of the individuals. Wealthy have rights to due process also. Easier for them sure. Fair? No. Of course not. Money always trumps all. It always does. That is the one thing that is blind to race... cash. Obama was president. OJ was found not guilty. Kobe's Colorado rape trial magically went away. REAL power is in money, whether you own it or you posses the ability to gather it, that is what is running the ship.

yup and these politicians will for vote the candidate who countinue to line their pockets and not rock their boat. Everything remains copacetic with the status quo under the false assumption of helping the poor which gets them elected every time.

mreinman
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7/11/2016  11:12 PM
I hope that melo steps up at forward and passes and leads like he did the first half of last season.
so here is what phil is thinking ....
NardDogNation
Posts: 27384
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7/11/2016  11:15 PM
fishmike wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
fishmike wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
dk7th wrote:1) the nra needs to be demolished and gun shows heavily proctored where all invitees are thoroughly checked.
2) the second amendment needs to be re-written to ban semi-automatic weapons from both citizenry and the regular police forces. possessors of any such weapons should be tried for treason and put in jail for lengthy prison terms. **** "originalism."
3) marijuana needs to be legalized and heavily regulated and taxed
4) the very wealthiest should be taxed heavily and the majority of funds should be diverted to pre-k through grammar school programs for inner city minorities
5) teachers in inner city pre-k through grammar school programs should be amply rewarded to the degree they are trained and vetted for this work
6) police forces must be representative of the communities they are meant to serve, and if a demographic changes rapidly, such as in ferguson, then the policemen need to be relocated to other communities or furloughed by some federal oversight. this is similar to members of the army and their families.
7) every citizen between the ages of 18-24 must serve in the military for two years in a defensive capacity, defending our borders and ports.

that would be a good start.

Not bad proposals. I'd also want to expand no.5 to include the creation of teaching assistants for the classroom. I think it is simply unreasonable in this day and age to expect teachers to handle classrooms of 20 or more students without some assistance in helping keep the room orderly. We're able to spend $500,000 or your standard conventional bomb....we should be able to pay for programs like this.

And if funding does become a problem, I'd like to see Estate Taxes increased exponentially. I feel no one person should be inheriting more than $5 million worth of net assets under any circumstance. The last thing this society needs are more Donald Trumps of the world that clearly are not worthy of being a leader of anything simply by birth-right. You want to be a part of the ruling class, earn it and prove your utility to the whole.

those are pie in the sky proposals that indicate little understanding of how the gov work.

Also we are not a socialist state. This proposal to take away rich peoples money, keep it from their children and "make them earn it" is un-American. Tim Duncan has two kids. So if he and his wife die in a car crash his kids should only get $5mm each and the rest of the $100mm of his estate should go to inner city educational funds? Lets the gov decide what to do with it? Is that it?

Read about the NRA lobby, the size of its membership and its power in Washington, and why it exists in the first place. Dumping the NRA is as good a suggestion as "we should all just stop fighting and love each other." Good sentiments, no basis in reality.

Im not trying to throw water on your discussion or ideas, simply suggest that some things can be accomplished and others cannot, at least as the game is currently constructed. Might want to focus on what can be accomplished.

Start with decriminalizing all drugs. I think it was mentioned someone in the thread but those stiff laws go back the to Nixon administration where heroin (blacks) and marijuana (anti gov hippies) were used to all the gov to control groups it viewed as a threat. Now those laws just are avenues to continue the criminalization of poor minorities, the incarceration of the men/fathers of those communities, and rendering those lives as "don't matter."

Tough issues with generations of laws of lousy thinking to cut through

If those are pie-in-the-sky ideas, why does it seem that every industrialized country has managed to put these or similar measures into practice? Israel (and Turkey, I believe) has mandatory military-service laws. Weed is legal in Amsterdam(the Netherlands). France has very tight gun control laws and no viable opposition to them. So why can't we make in-roads to doing the same in this country?

And what founding document of our country articulates how our economy is suppose to function? And does it define an aggressive Estate Tax as explicitly "un-American"? If so, how or why? And if it's against socialist policies, how have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and the like been deemed Constitutional?

As for what I'd spend the increased revenue on, it'd basically look like the Bernie Sanders playbook: massive infrastructure investments, public (and inexpensive) healthcare for all, massive re-investment in public universities, etc.

it may see that way, but is it reality? I don't want to emulate France in any way aside from their work culture. That country has huge problems. You cant really cherry pick the good from each country and ask why we cant do that.

Gun are protected by the constitution and until you can elect politicians that don't cater to that lobby you are stuck with status quo.

Israel faces geophraphic threats that US does not. If Canadians and Mexicans wanted to kill us with the same fervor as the Israeli neighbors I am sure an "everyone serving" type policy would work.

As for the bold you aren't talking about the economy, you are talking about taking from the rich to feed the poor. US was founded on small gov and the rights of the individual. Those rights are protected by "due process." It takes an awful lot to change those laws. Laws that are created by elected officials. See how that works? What does it take to get elected? What runs all those campaigns large or small? Money. Things like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are social programs. Not much different than welfare or education... Stuff we are taxed for. How to spend the taxes? That's the thing elected officials run on. Politicians promised to put those programs into place. For laws to be passed that heavily tax the rich... well they need to get passed. So you will need enough votes in congress to get those laws passed. First you have to get someone to propose them in the first place, THEN you have to get them passed. The rich folks that fund these politicians (yes, even democrats) are not super excited to support lawmakers who are focused on hurting their wealth and position in this country.

Laws are written to protect the rights of the individuals. Wealthy have rights to due process also. Easier for them sure. Fair? No. Of course not. Money always trumps all. It always does. That is the one thing that is blind to race... cash. Obama was president. OJ was found not guilty. Kobe's Colorado rape trial magically went away. REAL power is in money, whether you own it or you posses the ability to gather it, that is what is running the ship.

I admire elements of each of the aforementioned countries. But just because I like certain things about them, it doesn't mean that I'd want to adopt their culture and policies wholesale.

And what do taxes have to do with "due process" aka habeus corpus? We've had higher tax rates on wealthy folk throughout history and "due process" was never a factor in the matter. If it is, we've got the 9th amendment to expand the rights of government and people to codify new measures and I'd recommend we utilize it in this capacity.

As for politicians, most may be bought but not all. A guy like a Bernie Sanders was just short of being a nominee for POTUS without pandering to the wealthy. People like that can have the ability to change the laws, if necessary.

GustavBahler
Posts: 41533
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

7/11/2016  11:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/11/2016  11:34 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
dk7th wrote:1) the nra needs to be demolished and gun shows heavily proctored where all invitees are thoroughly checked.
2) the second amendment needs to be re-written to ban semi-automatic weapons from both citizenry and the regular police forces. possessors of any such weapons should be tried for treason and put in jail for lengthy prison terms. **** "originalism."
3) marijuana needs to be legalized and heavily regulated and taxed
4) the very wealthiest should be taxed heavily and the majority of funds should be diverted to pre-k through grammar school programs for inner city minorities
5) teachers in inner city pre-k through grammar school programs should be amply rewarded to the degree they are trained and vetted for this work
6) police forces must be representative of the communities they are meant to serve, and if a demographic changes rapidly, such as in ferguson, then the policemen need to be relocated to other communities or furloughed by some federal oversight. this is similar to members of the army and their families.
7) every citizen between the ages of 18-24 must serve in the military for two years in a defensive capacity, defending our borders and ports.

that would be a good start.

Not bad proposals. I'd also want to expand no.5 to include the creation of teaching assistants for the classroom. I think it is simply unreasonable in this day and age to expect teachers to handle classrooms of 20 or more students without some assistance in helping keep the room orderly. We're able to spend $500,000 or your standard conventional bomb....we should be able to pay for programs like this.

And if funding does become a problem, I'd like to see Estate Taxes increased exponentially. I feel no one person should be inheriting more than $5 million worth of net assets under any circumstance. The last thing this society needs are more Donald Trumps of the world that clearly are not worthy of being a leader of anything simply by birth-right. You want to be a part of the ruling class, earn it and prove your utility to the whole.

My prescription? Jobs and more jobs. When communities have plenty of jobs to offer, the crime rate and drug use plummets. They have tax zones to encourage growth but it would be more effective IMO to support the creation of black owned busineses by giving the same kind of loans the government has been giving to the big banks since the great recession, zero interest, to qualified candidates. End the use of how wealthy communities are determining how well schools are funded. Has to be more equitable. Wealthy communities have the tax base to properly fund schools, poor communities (of all colors) do not, even with govt help.

Rigorous psychological testing of prospective and current law enforcement should be mandatory. Something effective, while at the same time protect an officer's right to challenge any finding. I would also have a transaction tax on Wall Street to pay for much needed infrastructure improvements, education funding, and reduce military spending by at least a third (no cuts to vets) If we didnt already spend more than all the other rival powers combined, I would be more concerned about the effect of such cuts. There are many generals who say they dont need a new system, but get one expensive system after another shoved down their throats anyway. This isn't about defense. They wanted to replace the A-10 Warthog, and it took a groundwell of protest from the troops fighting overseas to stop it. Its out of control.

How realistic is job creation in the age of automation though? Technology has developed to the point that even sweat shop labor might be too high an overhead. Hell, companies like Amazon already seem to be on the verge of completely removing humans from the equation:


....all of this makes me wonder how feasible is it to bring jobs back to America. And right now, it seems so difficult to create jobs through small businesses because of how difficult it is to compete against corporations. It all makes me skeptical that taxes can be a long-term solution to achieving an appropriate balance in this respect.

But I agree completely with you on the need for a better screening process for police officers. I've known several in my life....and they've been some of the most morally bankrupt, set of morons I've encountered. One even has shot a teenager in the back and tried to make the claim that his life was in danger. There simply needs to be a higher standard for people that are given guns on behalf of the state. Was just watching a video today of how a couple, UNARMED officers from Sweden managed to de-escalate a hostile situation on the subway in a firm yet courteous manner. We need that patrolling our streets:

As for military spending, we might be able to cut 2/3 of it and still be safe from any international threat, especially when you consider that most of the top spenders are allies. However, much of the technological innovation we've seen in the private sector were once military projects funded by the public e.g. aircraft, jet engines, wireless communications, nuclear technology, etc. We need to make the need for alternative energy a matter of national security and begin making "green weapons" to help us transition off of oil. If we can do that, I could tolerate our current level of military spending. If not, cut, cut and cut.


P.S., the fact that they were trying to retire the A-10 is ridiculous especially considering the type of enemy we've been fighting. It's inexpensive and specificially designed for close air support. You'd think they'd instead try to update it instead.

Communities still need doctors nurses, electricians, carpenters, cooks/chefs among other trades, and service industry jobs with a living wage. There was a program to encourage black owned construction companies to have a seat at the table, but some white business men set up shell companies that were meant to fool the govt into thinking they were black owned. Has to be serious oversight.

I remember when I was in high school (I believe) and 60 minutes had done a profile of the A-10 which I still cant find. In one part of the segment, the reporter (maybe Harry Reasoner) was asked to try to keep his eyes on the A-10 in a hilly terrain. He couldn't do it. It kept appearing from all directions.

I believe the next serious replacement for the A-10 will be a drone.

NardDogNation
Posts: 27384
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555

7/11/2016  11:38 PM
meloanyk wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Great job by Melo.

These athletes though need to pool money together and find ways to put some things in place to create and fund the needed change. My suggestion would be creating businesses like supermarkets, housing, medical practices, mechanics etc.. in highly populated urban areas. Use there fame and visibility to promote the support of these specific businesses from the population. With the purpose of doing so not to make certain people rich. But to use profits to reinvest in the community and develop and fund low cost or free (if possible) private schools and after school programs. Developing children from day care to 6th grade. The police force should be highly involved with the private schools to gain familiarity with the children and families. The hope would be the the children would become that when they reach middle school level there test scores would excel and force a raise in funding for public schools. If possible though to generate enough money where private schooling could be through high school level even better. Then the hope would be to generate more educated and college ready children who can become the leaders of urban communities like mayors and police commish, judges, governors etc.. among other things.

In America we have

A majority white police force
majority white judicial demographic
majority white government
majority white Tv and news networks
Basically all real decision makers, positions of power, are majority white

Can we really expect this layout to have the best interest of blacks in America who they don't relate to over favoring who they do relate to? The results are what they are. African American children being tried as adults more then any other race for the same crimes. The African American image and history inaccurately portrayed.

Sure with enough constant fighting and some band aids will be put in place. But the truth of the matter is African Americans need to use the freedom we do have to establish our own.

That I don't have a problem with because I find men like Bernie Sanders, Ralph Nader, Noam Choamsky and the like to represent my wellbeing and interests far better than an Alan Keyes, Allen West, Don Lemon and the rest of the coon-brigade. Our enemy is ignorance and that can come in the form of any flavor of human being.

But your overall economic plan for minorities is something I agree with. Raising socioeconomic standards is key to acquring rhe political cache necessary to influence change. And the way that starts IS by re-investing in said communities and then lobbying ($$$$$$) for our interests through politics. You ever notice how tight a politicians ass gets when someone dares suggest we cut financial aid to Isreal, a 1st world country in its own right? That **** ain't by happenstance.

Many minorities and immigrants of different races, colors and religion have been able to raise their standards of living and lessen biases and prejudices through strong family structures with values that instill respect, discipline and a strong work ethic with emphasis on education and self determination. It all starts at home. In my area, Korean, Indian, Filipino, Middle Eastern ,Eastern European and Latin minorities , both legal and illegal immigrants, sacrifice and cram their extended family units into rentals for better schools so that the next generation can do better. Many move on to advanced schooling and careers despite having little. Hurdles exist in their lives yet they neither dwell or blame white or suceessful Americans but rather work towards advancing themselves to avoid dependence. If anything, these other minorities tend to look down on a segments of America both black and white for not raising their standards as a whole and defaulting to supports. Certain social programs and nets may be necessary but they need to be embraced as tools not abused. NJ already pumps $ into inner city schools to little avail. The ideals of Teach for America are quickly crushed. Black lives DO matter and those recent videos of senseless killings of blacks are disturbing to the vast majority of whites who DO care about the sanctity of all life. Reality is some policeman have bad makeups with wrongful racism or preconceptions that result in these horrors. The other reality is that most policeman do their job fairly well in many difficult environments and that the proverbial sheeet would hit the fan without their presence in many neighborhoods. Still no excuse for what occurred. Im older and came from a generation of institutionalized racism but to deny that progress has not been made on many fronts is absurd especially to a younger generation that is caring on most causes. On a socio economic front, the goals should always be access to good education for all but all have to fully avail themselves and creation of decent jobs so all can be gainfully employed

America has seldom accepted the world's "...tired....poor...huddled masses, yearning to be free" when it comes to Black and Brown peoples. If your lineage comes from Asia or any other non-European corner of the world, best believe that those people already had some set of skills/pedigree that the economy needed. They may never have had the opportunity to work in their chosen profession (like a former co-worker of mine that was a lawyer in India before coming here to work for the post office) but that culture and know-how of being upper class is passed onto their kids (like my co-worker whose 3 kids became doctors). That holds true for families admitted from Nigeria (Africa), 23% of whose kids attain some sort of graduate degree (according to the "Tiger Mom").

However, most Black Americans have never had the opportunity to acquire the same types of skill/pedigree like Black and Brown immigrants because they have been systemically denied the opportunity to do so since the inception of the country. And the road to acquiring said skill/pedigree (e.g. jacking up higher education costs, making it impossible to get social services with a record, etc.) has been purposely made elusive to help maintain that status quo. So the disparity in "success stories" is not simply a matter of "working hard" and pretending like these issues don't exist. And just for emphasis, had it not been for the blood, sweat and tears of those very same Black Americans, the explosion of Brown and Black immigrants post-1950s would have lead to them occupying the very same socioeconomic conditions endured by Black Americans.

Signed,
A first generation American

gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
7/11/2016  11:45 PM
fishmike wrote:
meloanyk wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Great job by Melo.

These athletes though need to pool money together and find ways to put some things in place to create and fund the needed change. My suggestion would be creating businesses like supermarkets, housing, medical practices, mechanics etc.. in highly populated urban areas. Use there fame and visibility to promote the support of these specific businesses from the population. With the purpose of doing so not to make certain people rich. But to use profits to reinvest in the community and develop and fund low cost or free (if possible) private schools and after school programs. Developing children from day care to 6th grade. The police force should be highly involved with the private schools to gain familiarity with the children and families. The hope would be the the children would become that when they reach middle school level there test scores would excel and force a raise in funding for public schools. If possible though to generate enough money where private schooling could be through high school level even better. Then the hope would be to generate more educated and college ready children who can become the leaders of urban communities like mayors and police commish, judges, governors etc.. among other things.

In America we have

A majority white police force
majority white judicial demographic
majority white government
majority white Tv and news networks
Basically all real decision makers, positions of power, are majority white

Can we really expect this layout to have the best interest of blacks in America who they don't relate to over favoring who they do relate to? The results are what they are. African American children being tried as adults more then any other race for the same crimes. The African American image and history inaccurately portrayed.

Sure with enough constant fighting and some band aids will be put in place. But the truth of the matter is African Americans need to use the freedom we do have to establish our own.

That I don't have a problem with because I find men like Bernie Sanders, Ralph Nader, Noam Choamsky and the like to represent my wellbeing and interests far better than an Alan Keyes, Allen West, Don Lemon and the rest of the coon-brigade. Our enemy is ignorance and that can come in the form of any flavor of human being.

But your overall economic plan for minorities is something I agree with. Raising socioeconomic standards is key to acquring rhe political cache necessary to influence change. And the way that starts IS by re-investing in said communities and then lobbying ($$$$$$) for our interests through politics. You ever notice how tight a politicians ass gets when someone dares suggest we cut financial aid to Isreal, a 1st world country in its own right? That **** ain't by happenstance.

Many minorities and immigrants of different races, colors and religion have been able to raise their standards of living and lessen biases and prejudices through strong family structures with values that instill respect, discipline and a strong work ethic with emphasis on education and self determination. It all starts at home. In my area, Korean, Indian, Filipino, Middle Eastern ,Eastern European and Latin minorities , both legal and illegal immigrants, sacrifice and cram their extended family units into rentals for better schools so that the next generation can do better. Many move on to advanced schooling and careers despite having little. Hurdles exist in their lives yet they neither dwell or blame white or suceessful Americans but rather work towards advancing themselves to avoid dependence. If anything, these other minorities tend to look down on a segments of America both black and white for not raising their standards as a whole and defaulting to supports. Certain social programs and nets may be necessary but they need to be embraced as tools not abused. NJ already pumps $ into inner city schools to little avail. The ideals of Teach for America are quickly crushed. Black lives DO matter and those recent videos of senseless killings of blacks are disturbing to the vast majority of whites who DO care about the sanctity of all life. Reality is some policeman have bad makeups with wrongful racism or preconceptions that result in these horrors. The other reality is that most policeman do their job fairly well in many difficult environments and that the proverbial sheeet would hit the fan without their presence in many neighborhoods. Still no excuse for what occurred. Im older and came from a generation of institutionalized racism but to deny that progress has not been made on many fronts is absurd especially to a younger generation that is caring on most causes. On a socio economic front, the goals should always be access to good education for all but all have to fully avail themselves and creation of decent jobs so all can be gainfully employed

yea.. pumping money isn't the answer. http://www.newsweek.com/did-zuckerberg-waste-100-million-newarks-schools-390855
$100mm and what did the spend most of the money on? Consultants who would decide what to spend the money on. Pretty scary stuff

Yea I live in ultra democratic Newark, New Jersey and I can assure you it was wasted money. These are the kind of promises that put these politicians in office to make vanish $100,000,000 million dollar. And it has nothing to do with cops and Donald Trump. Hillary stages her rally in front of Trump's Atlantic City casino and her supporters eat it up when in reality it was the same people who run Newark and have run Atlantic City long before Trump bailed 7yrs ago. Trump did the prudent thing getting out when he did as a businessman but leave it to a dishonest politician like Hillary to blame him all these years later.

NardDogNation
Posts: 27384
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555

7/11/2016  11:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/12/2016  12:00 AM
fishmike wrote:
meloanyk wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Great job by Melo.

These athletes though need to pool money together and find ways to put some things in place to create and fund the needed change. My suggestion would be creating businesses like supermarkets, housing, medical practices, mechanics etc.. in highly populated urban areas. Use there fame and visibility to promote the support of these specific businesses from the population. With the purpose of doing so not to make certain people rich. But to use profits to reinvest in the community and develop and fund low cost or free (if possible) private schools and after school programs. Developing children from day care to 6th grade. The police force should be highly involved with the private schools to gain familiarity with the children and families. The hope would be the the children would become that when they reach middle school level there test scores would excel and force a raise in funding for public schools. If possible though to generate enough money where private schooling could be through high school level even better. Then the hope would be to generate more educated and college ready children who can become the leaders of urban communities like mayors and police commish, judges, governors etc.. among other things.

In America we have

A majority white police force
majority white judicial demographic
majority white government
majority white Tv and news networks
Basically all real decision makers, positions of power, are majority white

Can we really expect this layout to have the best interest of blacks in America who they don't relate to over favoring who they do relate to? The results are what they are. African American children being tried as adults more then any other race for the same crimes. The African American image and history inaccurately portrayed.

Sure with enough constant fighting and some band aids will be put in place. But the truth of the matter is African Americans need to use the freedom we do have to establish our own.

That I don't have a problem with because I find men like Bernie Sanders, Ralph Nader, Noam Choamsky and the like to represent my wellbeing and interests far better than an Alan Keyes, Allen West, Don Lemon and the rest of the coon-brigade. Our enemy is ignorance and that can come in the form of any flavor of human being.

But your overall economic plan for minorities is something I agree with. Raising socioeconomic standards is key to acquring rhe political cache necessary to influence change. And the way that starts IS by re-investing in said communities and then lobbying ($$$$$$) for our interests through politics. You ever notice how tight a politicians ass gets when someone dares suggest we cut financial aid to Isreal, a 1st world country in its own right? That **** ain't by happenstance.

Many minorities and immigrants of different races, colors and religion have been able to raise their standards of living and lessen biases and prejudices through strong family structures with values that instill respect, discipline and a strong work ethic with emphasis on education and self determination. It all starts at home. In my area, Korean, Indian, Filipino, Middle Eastern ,Eastern European and Latin minorities , both legal and illegal immigrants, sacrifice and cram their extended family units into rentals for better schools so that the next generation can do better. Many move on to advanced schooling and careers despite having little. Hurdles exist in their lives yet they neither dwell or blame white or suceessful Americans but rather work towards advancing themselves to avoid dependence. If anything, these other minorities tend to look down on a segments of America both black and white for not raising their standards as a whole and defaulting to supports. Certain social programs and nets may be necessary but they need to be embraced as tools not abused. NJ already pumps $ into inner city schools to little avail. The ideals of Teach for America are quickly crushed. Black lives DO matter and those recent videos of senseless killings of blacks are disturbing to the vast majority of whites who DO care about the sanctity of all life. Reality is some policeman have bad makeups with wrongful racism or preconceptions that result in these horrors. The other reality is that most policeman do their job fairly well in many difficult environments and that the proverbial sheeet would hit the fan without their presence in many neighborhoods. Still no excuse for what occurred. Im older and came from a generation of institutionalized racism but to deny that progress has not been made on many fronts is absurd especially to a younger generation that is caring on most causes. On a socio economic front, the goals should always be access to good education for all but all have to fully avail themselves and creation of decent jobs so all can be gainfully employed

yea.. pumping money isn't the answer. http://www.newsweek.com/did-zuckerberg-waste-100-million-newarks-schools-390855
$100mm and what did the spend most of the money on? Consultants who would decide what to spend the money on. Pretty scary stuff

I don't think anyone is saying that money is a cure-all. But when schools look like the ones in Detriot, money certainly is a start.

Detroit’s students are trying to learn while breathing in black mold and sitting in classrooms filled with buckets catching toilet water leaking through the ceiling.

http://usuncut.com/class-war/detroit-teachers-want-you-to-see-these-disturbing-photos/

NardDogNation
Posts: 27384
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555

7/11/2016  11:51 PM
CashMoney wrote:
dk7th wrote:
arkrud wrote:
dk7th wrote:1) the nra needs to be demolished and gun shows heavily proctored where all invitees are thoroughly checked.
2) the second amendment needs to be re-written to ban semi-automatic weapons from both citizenry and the regular police forces. possessors of any such weapons should be tried for treason and put in jail for lengthy prison terms. **** "originalism."
3) marijuana needs to be legalized and heavily regulated and taxed
4) the very wealthiest should be taxed heavily and the majority of funds should be diverted to pre-k through grammar school programs for inner city minorities
5) teachers in inner city pre-k through grammar school programs should be amply rewarded to the degree they are trained and vetted for this work
6) police forces must be representative of the communities they are meant to serve, and if a demographic changes rapidly, such as in ferguson, then the policemen need to be relocated to other communities or furloughed by some federal oversight. this is similar to members of the army and their families.
7) every citizen between the ages of 18-24 must serve in the military for two years in a defensive capacity, defending our borders and ports.

that would be a good start.

This are cool points but you will need to first amend US constitution for p1 and p2. Good luck with that.
Agree on drugs and I will legalize all of them not only pot.
If you will unreasonably tax wealthiest they will move their money outside the country or invest all of it before tax and you will get close to nothing.
If you hire police based on race % of population you are creating the new segregation environment.
What do you prefer - clean professional policeman or policemen of you own race regardless of his skills and corruption scale?
Should it be also proportional by gender, sexual orientation, religion, and political affiliation?
Why we need draft if we have enough professional solders? Better to use more robots.
Not all people need to go to army to set their brains right to became good citizens.
As per teaches we do not have enough to put in the classrooms as it is not talking about assistants.
Making classes size less will solve same purpose.
But in general it is about quality not quantity.
So ideas are cool but very naive.

Couple of thing I would propose:
1. Make permit for semiautomatic weapons very expensive - around 20K per unit. It is not useful item for civilians, just a collectible for enthusiasts. Criminals will get them if they want regardless of any laws and regulations.
2. Make changes to add mental health check and background check mandatory for every gun permit. And doctors and clerks who do the check have to be liable if person who get the gun happens to be mentally sick, on terror suspect list, of with criminal or violence history.
3. Increase minimal police compensation to 25% over national income average.
4. Introduce more non-lethal means for police enforcement - gas, dogs, robots, tranquilizes, stun-guns, etc. Discourage used of guns by police or even remove from operation except of special police units.
5. Stop corrupted practice of collecting money by local municipalities from driving violations.
6. Increase minimum mandatory compensation for teaches with special bonuses for working in pure and dangerous neighborhoods.
7. Do the above but reducing the salaries for education boards bureaucrats and reduce their stuff.

one man's idealism is another's naivete. i don't consider myself naive but as the saying goes you have to shoot for the stars in order to hit the rooftops. semi-automatic weapons have no place in the citizenry. i'd rather they be banned but i like your idea of making their cost prohibitively expensive. cash deals would come under scrutiny and credit cards would be traceable. also chris rock had a routine where the ammo becomes prohibitively expensive as well. have fun with your rapidfire dick machines but basically be vasectomied.

i don't agree with your police force representative of local populaces creating more segregation-- police officers are supposed to be peacekeepers, and that would be the case regardless of the color of the skin of those the police would be interacting with. if you want to stop white flight and segregation then you have to start looking outside law enforcement to the source of the problem: the lack of proper pre-k through grammar school money in disadvantaged black communities. even though i hate his guts, at least de blasio's platfom had this as its central idea. in other words it is not merely a "race issue" it is a "class issue."

the mandatory army aspect is not merely about training men and women to work as a team for a cause, it is meant to instill love of country and devotion to the communities from which they have come, once their term of national and civic duty is completed. if people already possess the virtues required for being good citizens then that's fine. but the army is the most straightforward way of creating good citizens, and i will stress that it would not mean an offensive army.

You either love your country or don't so I don't agree with mandatory military service. Besides wasn't the jackass who orchestrated the Dallas shooting in the Army reserves?

So the only demonstration of love for your country is by picking up a gun? And let's be real, most soldiers are soldiers because they don't have many other options for employment or skill acquistion.

gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
7/11/2016  11:52 PM
arkrud wrote:
A gunman has killed two police officers and wounded another outside a courthouse in the US state of Michigan.

This is getting worth...

This is what happens when your leaders don't support the police nor acknowledge the fact that they put their lives on the line every single day to protect us. Instead you make general statements based on the actions of some bad cops. The deranged psychopaths out there misinterpret your vague messages and terrorize communities killing more innocent Americans

GustavBahler
Posts: 41533
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

7/11/2016  11:58 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
fishmike wrote:
meloanyk wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Great job by Melo.

These athletes though need to pool money together and find ways to put some things in place to create and fund the needed change. My suggestion would be creating businesses like supermarkets, housing, medical practices, mechanics etc.. in highly populated urban areas. Use there fame and visibility to promote the support of these specific businesses from the population. With the purpose of doing so not to make certain people rich. But to use profits to reinvest in the community and develop and fund low cost or free (if possible) private schools and after school programs. Developing children from day care to 6th grade. The police force should be highly involved with the private schools to gain familiarity with the children and families. The hope would be the the children would become that when they reach middle school level there test scores would excel and force a raise in funding for public schools. If possible though to generate enough money where private schooling could be through high school level even better. Then the hope would be to generate more educated and college ready children who can become the leaders of urban communities like mayors and police commish, judges, governors etc.. among other things.

In America we have

A majority white police force
majority white judicial demographic
majority white government
majority white Tv and news networks
Basically all real decision makers, positions of power, are majority white

Can we really expect this layout to have the best interest of blacks in America who they don't relate to over favoring who they do relate to? The results are what they are. African American children being tried as adults more then any other race for the same crimes. The African American image and history inaccurately portrayed.

Sure with enough constant fighting and some band aids will be put in place. But the truth of the matter is African Americans need to use the freedom we do have to establish our own.

That I don't have a problem with because I find men like Bernie Sanders, Ralph Nader, Noam Choamsky and the like to represent my wellbeing and interests far better than an Alan Keyes, Allen West, Don Lemon and the rest of the coon-brigade. Our enemy is ignorance and that can come in the form of any flavor of human being.

But your overall economic plan for minorities is something I agree with. Raising socioeconomic standards is key to acquring rhe political cache necessary to influence change. And the way that starts IS by re-investing in said communities and then lobbying ($$$$$$) for our interests through politics. You ever notice how tight a politicians ass gets when someone dares suggest we cut financial aid to Isreal, a 1st world country in its own right? That **** ain't by happenstance.

Many minorities and immigrants of different races, colors and religion have been able to raise their standards of living and lessen biases and prejudices through strong family structures with values that instill respect, discipline and a strong work ethic with emphasis on education and self determination. It all starts at home. In my area, Korean, Indian, Filipino, Middle Eastern ,Eastern European and Latin minorities , both legal and illegal immigrants, sacrifice and cram their extended family units into rentals for better schools so that the next generation can do better. Many move on to advanced schooling and careers despite having little. Hurdles exist in their lives yet they neither dwell or blame white or suceessful Americans but rather work towards advancing themselves to avoid dependence. If anything, these other minorities tend to look down on a segments of America both black and white for not raising their standards as a whole and defaulting to supports. Certain social programs and nets may be necessary but they need to be embraced as tools not abused. NJ already pumps $ into inner city schools to little avail. The ideals of Teach for America are quickly crushed. Black lives DO matter and those recent videos of senseless killings of blacks are disturbing to the vast majority of whites who DO care about the sanctity of all life. Reality is some policeman have bad makeups with wrongful racism or preconceptions that result in these horrors. The other reality is that most policeman do their job fairly well in many difficult environments and that the proverbial sheeet would hit the fan without their presence in many neighborhoods. Still no excuse for what occurred. Im older and came from a generation of institutionalized racism but to deny that progress has not been made on many fronts is absurd especially to a younger generation that is caring on most causes. On a socio economic front, the goals should always be access to good education for all but all have to fully avail themselves and creation of decent jobs so all can be gainfully employed

yea.. pumping money isn't the answer. http://www.newsweek.com/did-zuckerberg-waste-100-million-newarks-schools-390855
$100mm and what did the spend most of the money on? Consultants who would decide what to spend the money on. Pretty scary stuff

Yea I live in ultra democratic Newark, New Jersey and I can assure you it was wasted money. These are the kind of promises that put these politicians in office to make vanish $100,000,000 million dollar. And it has nothing to do with cops and Donald Trump. Hillary stages her rally in front of Trump's Atlantic City casino and her supporters eat it up when in reality it was the same people who run Newark and have run Atlantic City long before Trump bailed 7yrs ago. Trump did the prudent thing getting out when he did as a businessman but leave it to a dishonest politician like Hillary to blame him all these years later.

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/10/21/how_a_100m_facebook_donation_for

Im sure you've seen it firsthand, but this transcript of an interview with someone who covered the story is worth checking out.

holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

7/12/2016  12:03 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/12/2016  1:33 AM
CashMoney wrote:
holfresh wrote:
arkrud wrote:
misterearl wrote:FACTORIAL

The disparities appear to be even starker for unarmed suspects, according to an analysis of 2015 police killings by the Guardian. Racial minorities made up about 37.4 percent of the general population in the US and 46.6 percent of armed and unarmed victims, but they made up 62.7 percent of unarmed people killed by police.

More than half of murders, rapes, robberies, aggravated assaults, burglaries, and fraud in US are committed by black Americans.
African Americans represent 13% of population.

http://civilrightsmovement.net/us-crime-statistics-by-race/
I know that there are unfortunate historical reasons for this.
But it clearly explains why law enforcement is getting into conflict and killing black people more that anybody else.

I had to come out of retirement for this one...Maybe you and CashMoney, who claims he works in the Criminal Justice system but goes to a Financial website to get stats on Crime, need a few pointers on where to find stats to support your arguments...

According to the FBI, the people who are responsible for gathering these stats, as of 2014:

1. Whites in America commits 69.4% of all crime versus 27.8% by blacks
2. Whites in America commits 59.4% of all violent crimes versus 37.7% by blacks..Cash Money had non-whites including blacks committing 90% of all violent crimes...

According to a study by the Washington Post, Unarmed blacks are 7 times as likely to killed by police than unarmed whites...SEVEN TIMES!!!!

In 2015, The Post documented 990 fatal shootings by police, 93 of which involved people who were unarmed. Black men accounted for about 40 percent of the unarmed people fatally shot by police and, when adjusted by population, were seven times as likely as unarmed white men to die from police gunfire, The Post found.


https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-43
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/study-finds-police-fatally-shoot-unarmed-black-men-at-disproportionate-rates/2016/04/06/e494563e-fa74-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html

What does a financial website have to do with anything? Reporting is reporting. I do indeed work in the Criminal Justice system. I can give you my shield number and command if you like, just send me a message.

I'll appease you so here you go..... http://newobserveronline.com/90-nonwhite-violent-crime-rate-fbi/

The bottom line is that we can all go back and forth on crime stats and BS from here to the end of time but things won't change until we can all look at each other and simply refer to each other as people!

Whenever you watch the news it's never "Police killed a man today" it's "Police killed a black man today."

So called movements like "Black Lives Matter" do nothing than add fuel to the fire. "Black Lives Matter" only when the person doing the killing is a white police officer and the person being killed is black. The fact is 90% of black people are killed by other black people! Where in the hell is Black Lives Matter on this issue? Why not start an organization called White Lives Matter and concentrate on black people who kill white people? That would be considered racist wouldn't it? Would this do nothing more than create a larger gap in the racial divide? Ignoring the fact that over 80% of whites are killed other whites would be a moot point wouldn't it? It would be simply labeled a racist movement by white people wouldn't it?

None of this crap stops until we as people stand up and say enough is enough. Not black people, Hispanic people, white people, etc. Just we as people, regardless of race, religion or creed.

I highly doubt that I will see this day nor do I feel my child will see this day but I do believe this day will come. I judge people based on who they are as people not by the color of their skin. I teach my child to do the same. I hope that there are others out there like me who call BS, BS who will teach their children the same until the day comes when a spade is able to be called a spade. Only when people who are held in high regard in their communities preach this nothing will change and it will continue to be "us" vs "them."

As the late and great MLK once said......

"When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

LET'S GO KNICKS!!!!!!!!!!


It's interesting that the stats I presented is completely opposite to the stats you initially recorded, and now, after posting the same stats I have posted, you some how you draw the same conclusion as before...

Just to answer a few questions you have posted...There are many other community organizations that protest black on black crimes. These protest don't get covered by the press...I personally remember many walks across the Brooklyn Bridge regarding black on black crime..Spike Lee always talks about black on black crime. Press don't cover it...Black lives matter have more traction...But now you want Black Lives Matters to be the black umbrella organization??..In my opinion, the reason you don't see an animated protest against black on black crimes is because when the police capture the assailant, they are often prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law...When a police officer kills a black man, there are often no repercussions...It's a freebee...The criminal justice system protects the police in those instances. So they don't have to practice restraint...Prosecute those officers who commit murder and you won't see protest...But what really gets me is that there are those who are pissed at the community(blacks and whites) protesting being killed by the police at an appalling rate and you are supposed to accept it as the way it is...Insanity...

All groups kill individuals in the community where they live in...90% of black murders are by blacks just like 84% of all white murders are by whites...

Philando Castile, who was killed by the police in Minnesota, was pulled over 52 times since 2002...Half o the charges against him were thrown out in court..

I wanted to expand the response to your post more but I don't have time, just answer me one question...

I was in middle school in Brooklyn, walking home on a half day of school, when I had my first experience with a police officer reaching for his firearm, who told me to stop and don't move...When was the first time a police officer pull a gun on you??..I remember living in Brooklyn and there was a robbery called in at the train station closest to my house..A black plain cloths officer ran to the scene of the crime with his badge around his neck. He was shot by white plain cloths officer...Keep thinking there isn't a problem..




Acknowledging black on black crime is nothing new...

gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
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7/12/2016  12:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/12/2016  12:23 AM
arkrud wrote:
meloanyk wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Great job by Melo.

These athletes though need to pool money together and find ways to put some things in place to create and fund the needed change. My suggestion would be creating businesses like supermarkets, housing, medical practices, mechanics etc.. in highly populated urban areas. Use there fame and visibility to promote the support of these specific businesses from the population. With the purpose of doing so not to make certain people rich. But to use profits to reinvest in the community and develop and fund low cost or free (if possible) private schools and after school programs. Developing children from day care to 6th grade. The police force should be highly involved with the private schools to gain familiarity with the children and families. The hope would be the the children would become that when they reach middle school level there test scores would excel and force a raise in funding for public schools. If possible though to generate enough money where private schooling could be through high school level even better. Then the hope would be to generate more educated and college ready children who can become the leaders of urban communities like mayors and police commish, judges, governors etc.. among other things.

In America we have

A majority white police force
majority white judicial demographic
majority white government
majority white Tv and news networks
Basically all real decision makers, positions of power, are majority white

Can we really expect this layout to have the best interest of blacks in America who they don't relate to over favoring who they do relate to? The results are what they are. African American children being tried as adults more then any other race for the same crimes. The African American image and history inaccurately portrayed.

Sure with enough constant fighting and some band aids will be put in place. But the truth of the matter is African Americans need to use the freedom we do have to establish our own.

That I don't have a problem with because I find men like Bernie Sanders, Ralph Nader, Noam Choamsky and the like to represent my wellbeing and interests far better than an Alan Keyes, Allen West, Don Lemon and the rest of the coon-brigade. Our enemy is ignorance and that can come in the form of any flavor of human being.

But your overall economic plan for minorities is something I agree with. Raising socioeconomic standards is key to acquring rhe political cache necessary to influence change. And the way that starts IS by re-investing in said communities and then lobbying ($$$$$$) for our interests through politics. You ever notice how tight a politicians ass gets when someone dares suggest we cut financial aid to Isreal, a 1st world country in its own right? That **** ain't by happenstance.

Many minorities and immigrants of different races, colors and religion have been able to raise their standards of living and lessen biases and prejudices through strong family structures with values that instill respect, discipline and a strong work ethic with emphasis on education and self determination. It all starts at home. In my area, Korean, Indian, Filipino, Middle Eastern ,Eastern European and Latin minorities , both legal and illegal immigrants, sacrifice and cram their extended family units into rentals for better schools so that the next generation can do better. Many move on to advanced schooling and careers despite having little. Hurdles exist in their lives yet they neither dwell or blame white or suceessful Americans but rather work towards advancing themselves to avoid dependence. If anything, these other minorities tend to look down on a segments of America both black and white for not raising their standards as a whole and defaulting to supports. Certain social programs and nets may be necessary but they need to be embraced as tools not abused. NJ already pumps $ into inner city schools to little avail. The ideals of Teach for America are quickly crushed. Black lives DO matter and those recent videos of senseless killings of blacks are disturbing to the vast majority of whites who DO care about the sanctity of all life. Reality is some policeman have bad makeups with wrongful racism or preconceptions that result in these horrors. The other reality is that most policeman do their job fairly well in many difficult environments and that the proverbial sheeet would hit the fan without their presence in many neighborhoods. Still no excuse for what occurred. Im older and came from a generation of institutionalized racism but to deny that progress has not been made on many fronts is absurd especially to a younger generation that is caring on most causes. On a socio economic front, the goals should always be access to good education for all but all have to fully avail themselves and creation of decent jobs so all can be gainfully employed

This... Very well said.

I am 20 years in US and came with 5K $ in my pocket with my wife and son.
Now we are upper middle class family and used no help from government except of 6 moths initial support for housing, food, and language education. We are just working class and already paid more that million dollars in taxes collectively to contribute for the country and help others who came after us.
The solution is simple - to get help don't vine, start helping yourself and others and help will come back to you.
I understand what police officers are facing every day and try to make their job easier when have to interact with them.
Absolute majority of them are good caring people but stressed and tired from their life experiences. This must be understood.
There are a lot of people in US who need help but this help should be given in a way it will not corrupt.
People in need should be helped to help them-self and even start helping others.
This is not easy but worth trying.

yea very good post and great discussion in this thread in general. I've come across people from every walks of life who've achieved success the same principles and fundamentals. Unfortunately people are no longer held accountable for their actions and how they are perceived. It's always someone else's fault. There are plenty of examples of being growing up under unfathomable conditions and making the most out of it. Our leaders need to do a better job of acknowledging and promoting the positive contributors to society and their solid principles.

martin
Posts: 71530
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Member: #2
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7/12/2016  12:19 AM
mreinman wrote:I hope that melo steps up at forward and passes and leads like he did the first half of last season.

I haven't closely followed this thread but I am sure it's of a serious tone, tenor, opinion'ed thread; your post is out of place, please refrain. Thanks.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
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7/12/2016  12:37 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
fishmike wrote:
meloanyk wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Great job by Melo.

These athletes though need to pool money together and find ways to put some things in place to create and fund the needed change. My suggestion would be creating businesses like supermarkets, housing, medical practices, mechanics etc.. in highly populated urban areas. Use there fame and visibility to promote the support of these specific businesses from the population. With the purpose of doing so not to make certain people rich. But to use profits to reinvest in the community and develop and fund low cost or free (if possible) private schools and after school programs. Developing children from day care to 6th grade. The police force should be highly involved with the private schools to gain familiarity with the children and families. The hope would be the the children would become that when they reach middle school level there test scores would excel and force a raise in funding for public schools. If possible though to generate enough money where private schooling could be through high school level even better. Then the hope would be to generate more educated and college ready children who can become the leaders of urban communities like mayors and police commish, judges, governors etc.. among other things.

In America we have

A majority white police force
majority white judicial demographic
majority white government
majority white Tv and news networks
Basically all real decision makers, positions of power, are majority white

Can we really expect this layout to have the best interest of blacks in America who they don't relate to over favoring who they do relate to? The results are what they are. African American children being tried as adults more then any other race for the same crimes. The African American image and history inaccurately portrayed.

Sure with enough constant fighting and some band aids will be put in place. But the truth of the matter is African Americans need to use the freedom we do have to establish our own.

That I don't have a problem with because I find men like Bernie Sanders, Ralph Nader, Noam Choamsky and the like to represent my wellbeing and interests far better than an Alan Keyes, Allen West, Don Lemon and the rest of the coon-brigade. Our enemy is ignorance and that can come in the form of any flavor of human being.

But your overall economic plan for minorities is something I agree with. Raising socioeconomic standards is key to acquring rhe political cache necessary to influence change. And the way that starts IS by re-investing in said communities and then lobbying ($$$$$$) for our interests through politics. You ever notice how tight a politicians ass gets when someone dares suggest we cut financial aid to Isreal, a 1st world country in its own right? That **** ain't by happenstance.

Many minorities and immigrants of different races, colors and religion have been able to raise their standards of living and lessen biases and prejudices through strong family structures with values that instill respect, discipline and a strong work ethic with emphasis on education and self determination. It all starts at home. In my area, Korean, Indian, Filipino, Middle Eastern ,Eastern European and Latin minorities , both legal and illegal immigrants, sacrifice and cram their extended family units into rentals for better schools so that the next generation can do better. Many move on to advanced schooling and careers despite having little. Hurdles exist in their lives yet they neither dwell or blame white or suceessful Americans but rather work towards advancing themselves to avoid dependence. If anything, these other minorities tend to look down on a segments of America both black and white for not raising their standards as a whole and defaulting to supports. Certain social programs and nets may be necessary but they need to be embraced as tools not abused. NJ already pumps $ into inner city schools to little avail. The ideals of Teach for America are quickly crushed. Black lives DO matter and those recent videos of senseless killings of blacks are disturbing to the vast majority of whites who DO care about the sanctity of all life. Reality is some policeman have bad makeups with wrongful racism or preconceptions that result in these horrors. The other reality is that most policeman do their job fairly well in many difficult environments and that the proverbial sheeet would hit the fan without their presence in many neighborhoods. Still no excuse for what occurred. Im older and came from a generation of institutionalized racism but to deny that progress has not been made on many fronts is absurd especially to a younger generation that is caring on most causes. On a socio economic front, the goals should always be access to good education for all but all have to fully avail themselves and creation of decent jobs so all can be gainfully employed

yea.. pumping money isn't the answer. http://www.newsweek.com/did-zuckerberg-waste-100-million-newarks-schools-390855
$100mm and what did the spend most of the money on? Consultants who would decide what to spend the money on. Pretty scary stuff

Yea I live in ultra democratic Newark, New Jersey and I can assure you it was wasted money. These are the kind of promises that put these politicians in office to make vanish $100,000,000 million dollar. And it has nothing to do with cops and Donald Trump. Hillary stages her rally in front of Trump's Atlantic City casino and her supporters eat it up when in reality it was the same people who run Newark and have run Atlantic City long before Trump bailed 7yrs ago. Trump did the prudent thing getting out when he did as a businessman but leave it to a dishonest politician like Hillary to blame him all these years later.

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/10/21/how_a_100m_facebook_donation_for

Im sure you've seen it firsthand, but this transcript of an interview with someone who covered the story is worth checking out.


It's absurd! This is a prime example why Americans are fed up with traditional politicians
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
7/12/2016  12:47 AM
Uptown wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Some interesting points raised.

First and foremost we can only attempt to stop racism by first accepting that its a reality and then holding anyone accountable who is willing to use racism for decision making. If no one has to be held accountable for racism then it will be the same old story. Or maybe we should just wait until one day everyone is 100% morally enlightened then racism will take care of itself.

That woman who was raped by the Stanford swimmer. What if I took the stance that she had the freedom to not go to college parties. That she had the freedom to not drink. That rape will one day stop when everyone decides that its morally wrong and we should just look forward to that day. She shouldn't be tooo upset since some places in the middle east the rape and molest women and children all the time. So its justified for the judge to give him such a light sentence. Or cops have the freedom to have other careers so officers getting killed on the job isn't a big deal.

In this thread there are many non African Americans attempting to speak on the experience of African Americans in America which is flawed in it self. Arkud you are of Russian decent. Have you and your friend growing up in America ever been kicked out of house parties due to Russian stereotypes instantly making you a threat? Have you ever been in a predominantly white neighborhood. Followed then stopped by the police, then asked what you were doing in said town. Then told to go back to where you came from? Have you had to have conversations with your children that they might get killed by the police because they are viewed as a bigger threat due to there skin color?

When I was around 9-10 I got into a fight with another kid who was white. I punched him a few times, He kicked me in the face with some karate kick. He decided he didn't want to fight anymore and walked away with some blood inside his cheek. And we left it at that. I was later arrested and brought to the police station. Nobody cared for my side of the story. No officers ever asked me what happen or why we fought. All that mattered was that his white mother was upset her child got into a fight. Since I was black I was instantly guilty. It couldn't just be 2 little kids had a disagreement fought it out and went there separate ways.

And that is petty stuff on my end. How many of you can identify with being arrested for fitting the description or charged with crimes you didn't commit and pressured to take plea deals with the threat of max charges.

Many urban communities have and admitted horrible education system meaning no hope for future and go through an admitted jacked up criminal system. African Americans can move out of the poor urban communities. Work two jobs in order to keep up with expenses in order to make sure there child receives a better education. This may save that one family. But none of this improves that community they left. All it does is enhance the community that was already good. Meanwhile many more other families that fail to pull this off get stuck in the cycle.

Family structure is very important and key as touched on many times. You know what destroys family structure? Throwing one out three in jail. Murdering members of households.

Immigrants can never challenge government or protest there rights they are not a threat to anyone in positions of power.

Realest post in this thread....Hope everyone takes the time to read this...

I am from Soviet Union but Jewish descent.
I was discriminated first 33 years of my life just because I am Jew national (not even religions) before moving to US.
I cannot attend any good quality college, work for any government jobs related to defense or anything communists considered secrets.
Can be bit up on the street and nobody would care to help.
So if you think that your experience is unique you are mistaken.
Many people in many countries are much worth off and need to run for their lives.
I understand that the history of African Americans is the history of struggle and oppression.
So is the history of my people.
Thousands years back we decide that we not be slaves any more and since then we prefer to die free.
And millions were murdered over and over again. But we persist and we always mange to be the best we can be.
We refused to be the victims even when Nazi burn millions in the camps of Holocaust.
We never took violent path of retaliation. Our retaliation is to be the smartest, the wealthiest, the most talented people of the world.
This is our answer to the world. So you should do same and I believe you can.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
gunsnewing
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7/12/2016  1:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/12/2016  1:04 AM
I'm praying Trump doesn't make Christie his VP candidate. I was sickened the instant Christie dropped out clearly started campaigning for the job by supporting Trump. I rather he have nothing to do with this campaign. I certainly hope Trump refrains from rewarding him any lead role. Christie embodies everything wrong with politics and deceiving the public. Much rather see Carson, Kasich, Rubio, Ginrich or Ernst
OT: Melo Steps Forward

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