knicks1248 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i find it strange that people try and say any system in basketball is outdated. if the warriors were running the triangle, they'd be just as good as they are currently. any and all systems need good players to perform well and when we have good players, everyone will say the triangle works wonders. why do some people get so caught up in nonsense?

Because we don't have the players to run the system effectively, It's that simple

just imagine if we had kurt Thomas, kidd, camby, rasheed, prigioni, fatty felton, and we had a coach that insisted on a system that had those guys running like a track meet, you would look at him like an idiot. Like why would he think these older veterans have the stamina to run up and down the court.

Get the players and coach that can run your system effectively, get a coach that can run the system, but also has the brains to other things. Phil just seems to be doing everything backwards, hoping for the best

Exactly right, we don't have the players. It's like people just seem to forget that we are in the middle of a rebuild and that this was Phil's first year of making additions. We are cap strapped and have been since Phil got the job so there's zero way to do a complete rebuild in one season and is why i keep saying that with two more off seasons to make more additions with we will have a team that's ready to compete but some of you expect it to happen by snapping your fingers and it just doesn't work like that.

Once Phil gets this team back to where we're winning games again we'll be back to being that New York Knicks team that free agents will want to come play for. Every player loves playing in the Garden and they say it all the time with Derozan being the most recent big name to say it, the only problem for us is that as of now they like being the visiting team to come play in the Garden but when we get this team back to where we want it and KP is playing like a all star players are gonna want to come and play with him.

PATIENCE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you just say we are cash strap???? That's the biggest joke of all time, Phil traded or waived exipiring contracts...Grunwald made sure he didn't sign anyone for more then 3 yrs, Felt 1 yr left, Tyson 1 yr left, shump expiring, amare expiring, prigion expiring, melo opt out.

Phil did not come in here hoping to rebuild sht, he made minor moves with the Tyson trade, and when he saw most of the roster was not receptive to the Triangle he went with plan b , he wanted to get rid of JR, and gave Cleveland a gift in shump.What makes matters worse is that Jr opted out anyway.

Phil could have let last season rideout, but FCK it, he got Kp by tanking. That does not screamed (top executive move)any dope could have hired and in experience coach and tank a season away. Don't talk about culture change when he only manage to keep 25% of the roster he put together last season intact.after all the waives and trades.

You guys need to stop praising phil like he's PAT RILEY OR SOMETHING..Every single move phil has , any avg to below avg GM is capable of.

Impress by getting top Fa to come here, or make a savvy trade

You have so much anger in you but you just keep spewing false information out of your mouth and pretty much the whole board disagrees with everything you say. lol

yellowboy90 wrote:Not everyone thought that Tyson value was low. Then before the trade deadline Cuban started gushing about Tyson and how he made a mistake. Tyson was worth a lot to the Mavs but Phil's insistence of including Felton lowered the return Value of any trade.

Its the same thing with the Shump and Smith trade, the Knicks have away the 2 best players for some garbage because JR was perceived as a bad seed and they needed a change of culture. The Cavs covered Shump though and if they would have kept JR out of the deal they would have had more leverage. In reality they still had leverage because GM Bron wanted both. Phil should have played hardball and if they didn't bite wait until the summer..

Phil's likes quick fixes and misses long term options. The Knicks should of had a 1st from both deals or Reggie Jackson in the 3-team trade but at least they got 3 guys they cut. Lance turned out okay though. Phil best trade was Pablo when he got 2 2nd rd picks. 2 picks for a 3 string of but couldn't get anything more for Tyson, Shump, ad JR. Lol.

I disagree. Most of what you say here is just fiction and not many facts if any.

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i find it strange that people try and say any system in basketball is outdated. if the warriors were running the triangle, they'd be just as good as they are currently. any and all systems need good players to perform well and when we have good players, everyone will say the triangle works wonders. why do some people get so caught up in nonsense?

Because we don't have the players to run the system effectively, It's that simple

just imagine if we had kurt Thomas, kidd, camby, rasheed, prigioni, fatty felton, and we had a coach that insisted on a system that had those guys running like a track meet, you would look at him like an idiot. Like why would he think these older veterans have the stamina to run up and down the court.

Get the players and coach that can run your system effectively, get a coach that can run the system, but also has the brains to other things. Phil just seems to be doing everything backwards, hoping for the best

Exactly right, we don't have the players. It's like people just seem to forget that we are in the middle of a rebuild and that this was Phil's first year of making additions. We are cap strapped and have been since Phil got the job so there's zero way to do a complete rebuild in one season and is why i keep saying that with two more off seasons to make more additions with we will have a team that's ready to compete but some of you expect it to happen by snapping your fingers and it just doesn't work like that.

Once Phil gets this team back to where we're winning games again we'll be back to being that New York Knicks team that free agents will want to come play for. Every player loves playing in the Garden and they say it all the time with Derozan being the most recent big name to say it, the only problem for us is that as of now they like being the visiting team to come play in the Garden but when we get this team back to where we want it and KP is playing like a all star players are gonna want to come and play with him.

PATIENCE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you just say we are cash strap???? That's the biggest joke of all time, Phil traded or waived exipiring contracts...Grunwald made sure he didn't sign anyone for more then 3 yrs, Felt 1 yr left, Tyson 1 yr left, shump expiring, amare expiring, prigion expiring, melo opt out.

Phil did not come in here hoping to rebuild sht, he made minor moves with the Tyson trade, and when he saw most of the roster was not receptive to the Triangle he went with plan b , he wanted to get rid of JR, and gave Cleveland a gift in shump.What makes matters worse is that Jr opted out anyway.

Phil could have let last season rideout, but FCK it, he got Kp by tanking. That does not screamed (top executive move)any dope could have hired and in experience coach and tank a season away. Don't talk about culture change when he only manage to keep 25% of the roster he put together last season intact.after all the waives and trades.

You guys need to stop praising phil like he's PAT RILEY OR SOMETHING..Every single move phil has , any avg to below avg GM is capable of.

Impress by getting top Fa to come here, or make a savvy trade

You have so much anger in you but you just keep spewing false information out of your mouth and pretty much the whole board disagrees with everything you say. lol

Dude I can go pull up every article after every trade, im not saying anything that hasn't been documented.. What exactly am I saying that wasn't true.. Am I making up the contracts that were waived or traded, Phil said it himself, JR wasn't really on board, so he traded him, and since no one really wanted him, he put shump as the cherry on top.

I don't have any anger at all towards phil, but im not praising him and putting down rose peddles before he walks like you are.

If you can give me one savvy move that he has made..

but majority of the players he waived or traded are in the PLAYOFFS..

Where are the TOP FA willing to sacrifice and come TO NY to learn the triangle...

Phil is only hiring his friends?

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i find it strange that people try and say any system in basketball is outdated. if the warriors were running the triangle, they'd be just as good as they are currently. any and all systems need good players to perform well and when we have good players, everyone will say the triangle works wonders. why do some people get so caught up in nonsense?

Because we don't have the players to run the system effectively, It's that simple

just imagine if we had kurt Thomas, kidd, camby, rasheed, prigioni, fatty felton, and we had a coach that insisted on a system that had those guys running like a track meet, you would look at him like an idiot. Like why would he think these older veterans have the stamina to run up and down the court.

Get the players and coach that can run your system effectively, get a coach that can run the system, but also has the brains to other things. Phil just seems to be doing everything backwards, hoping for the best

Exactly right, we don't have the players. It's like people just seem to forget that we are in the middle of a rebuild and that this was Phil's first year of making additions. We are cap strapped and have been since Phil got the job so there's zero way to do a complete rebuild in one season and is why i keep saying that with two more off seasons to make more additions with we will have a team that's ready to compete but some of you expect it to happen by snapping your fingers and it just doesn't work like that.

Once Phil gets this team back to where we're winning games again we'll be back to being that New York Knicks team that free agents will want to come play for. Every player loves playing in the Garden and they say it all the time with Derozan being the most recent big name to say it, the only problem for us is that as of now they like being the visiting team to come play in the Garden but when we get this team back to where we want it and KP is playing like a all star players are gonna want to come and play with him.

PATIENCE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you just say we are cash strap???? That's the biggest joke of all time, Phil traded or waived exipiring contracts...Grunwald made sure he didn't sign anyone for more then 3 yrs, Felt 1 yr left, Tyson 1 yr left, shump expiring, amare expiring, prigion expiring, melo opt out.

Phil did not come in here hoping to rebuild sht, he made minor moves with the Tyson trade, and when he saw most of the roster was not receptive to the Triangle he went with plan b , he wanted to get rid of JR, and gave Cleveland a gift in shump.What makes matters worse is that Jr opted out anyway.

Phil could have let last season rideout, but FCK it, he got Kp by tanking. That does not screamed (top executive move)any dope could have hired and in experience coach and tank a season away. Don't talk about culture change when he only manage to keep 25% of the roster he put together last season intact.after all the waives and trades.

You guys need to stop praising phil like he's PAT RILEY OR SOMETHING..Every single move phil has , any avg to below avg GM is capable of.

Impress by getting top Fa to come here, or make a savvy trade

You have so much anger in you but you just keep spewing false information out of your mouth and pretty much the whole board disagrees with everything you say. lol

Dude I can go pull up every article after every trade, im not saying anything that hasn't been documented.. What exactly am I saying that wasn't true.. Am I making up the contracts that were waived or traded, Phil said it himself, JR wasn't really on board, so he traded him, and since no one really wanted him, he put shump as the cherry on top.

I don't have any anger at all towards phil, but im not praising him and putting down rose peddles before he walks like you are.

If you can give me one savvy move that he has made..

but majority of the players he waived or traded are in the PLAYOFFS..

Where are the TOP FA willing to sacrifice and come TO NY to learn the triangle...

Phil is only hiring his friends?

Phil didn't screw his former players in his trades. So he sent them to solid destinations. NONE of this is important right now. We need to stay in the present and not live in the past so much. There's no need to go overboard praising Phil but at the same time he's done some good things and is setting up this franchise for prolonged success. There are more positives about this franchise than there were when he took over. People get caught up with the record and totally miss the BIG PICTURE!

I don't bash phil, NIX, im just not acting like he's the best thing since slice bread, or he's done things no one else could have.

He's done good and He's done bad, that just makes him average.

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:
He def should have gotten more out of Tyson deal. He overvalued Jose. And he ended up firing Fisher so that was a whif. Other then that his moves have been solid.

Jose was coming off a good year, got hurt and was then asked to do too much. Tyson is terrible, and had a terrible year, although his one year in Dallas was pretty good... but he always does that in contract years. It happens. Regardless of the hindsight I agree with your post.

I don't even have a problem with him liking Calderon even though he had 2 more yrs on the deal. Wish he would have demanded a future draft pick over Larkin though. I feel like Phil knew he wasn't apart of the plans from the get go.

nyk4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Every team every season should start the year looking to win, make the playoffs and advance. To suggest otherwise is a disservice to those who fund the business (advertisers, ticket holders, TV contracts). That's a no brainer and shouldn't be debated. This is the pros, and that is part of the game you play. What the GM does is what dictates if a franchise is good or not. Do you spend assets to generate a few more wins and "appear" to be trying? Or do you accept reality and show you are willing to take two steps backward for more steps forward?

Having watched trades and transactions over recent years nothing tells me that JR/Shump should have yielded a great package. There are some teams that get picks but its not a given. Many factors. We got a pick for Tim Hardaway and we have seen Phil commit to developing young players so I think its fair to say he values the draft.

When you start rebuilding and the losses mount EVERY system will be questions. After Woody won 54 games the exact same system was questioned the following year.

So far we haven't whiffed on anything because of the triangle. DeAndre Jorden listened and chose to stay with his team. We signed Rolo to a very good contract with cap space. A defensive 26 year old center chose to come here. So did AA who is a decent player, just not what we need. We were still able to add decent talent considering what our options where. This offseason will be telling.

Its still a system based on spacing and that is most certainly "modern" NBA offense.

The 54 team went by the wayside with the Bargs trade. That was the move that was supposed to breath some new talent into that team and sustain what was there. We know how that worked out. What Phil got was a 37 win team on a downward trend, not a 54 win team that had a bad year.

That's all fair. I just don't have a lot of faith in Rambis as the coach to really make the Triangle hum. I'm surprised any of you guys do. But I guess we'll see how it goes.

And the talk of it being a long rebuild - hey, I hope they stay the course. History with Dolan tells us that's unlikely.

Rambis was with Phil for the last Title runs so he clearly is a valued Triangle proponent for Phil. In the end Phil is considered the top coach in terms of impact on his team's performance. The closest to Phil in terms of philosophy is Rambis. If he says Rambis helps him to teach the system to his players who is to question the man's ability? That doesn't mean Rambis is the right man to be the Head Coach but if Phil says he's a valuable assistant I would trust that.

Just because he shares the philosophy and understands the offense doesn't make him a good coach.

He's not a good coach.

definitely agree with you here. i have no problem with rambis being top assistant but rambis better not be signed as the head coach for next year. i think Phil need to be a liiiiiiiittle more imaginative than that

Phil will look for a defensive head coach who has no offensive system so would welcome the triangle which would be taught by Rambis as an assistant(Same exact situation that created Phil Jackson). Who won't pull a Fisher and give him clear access to the team. Which is why David Blatts name came up. Also said to want a team builder type mentality. I think Phil believes Rambis fails at the team builder aspect so he is looking for stronger candidates that fit those requirements.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/World_Wide_Wob/status/720420491379417088

Papabear wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is a piece of shot article?

What is the intent here? Just more drama to sell clicks and newspapers

Yeah cuz it's a bad thing having the greatest coach teach his players. SMH. This kind of thing can only help. I've never heard of a team doing this but I do remember Phil and Rambis doing seminars before. Perhaps this is allowed if it's not mandatory.

I thought you said the key was upgrading the backcourt?

What's the point of a two day seminar with mediocre guards?

Phil should be exploring ways to upgrade the roster. He's not the coach, he's the President. If he's gonna coach, he should coach.

He should be searching for a coach.

Instead he is running an ego workshop while the TWolves lock down Thibs. Wolves will have a better record than the Knicks next year.

If Phil's job is President of the team, I'm not sure I see how this helps anything. He's already settled on Rambis without having a single in person interview with another candidate.

This is kind of weird to me. You're assuming organizations can't do 2 things at 1 time. And if the greatest coach out there is teaching player and ball movement to KP, Grant, Wroten and anyone else that will show up.... that's not a good thing? It is, right?

The Knicks are not winning a championship within the next 2 years unless they sign LeBron or Westbrook next year. Continuity is probably the best thing for the young Knicks players in the mean time.

THE most important thing for the Knicks is growth of KP, Grant, Wroten (if he is physically able).

Papabear Says

Which one of those players are Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Pipen? Phil Jackson can teach all he want to but without the star players the Triangle means nothing in New York. Kobe and Shaq would have won with out Phil Jackson and so would Jordan and Pipen.

Come on man! Don't do this to yourself. Phil played his part in helping those players win Titles. There's no refuting his impact.

In regards to our team, the idea is to develop our own stars. What do you think is the hope for KP? I have no idea what you were thinking with this post. Why are you putting down the team like this?

newyorker4ever wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Not everyone thought that Tyson value was low. Then before the trade deadline Cuban started gushing about Tyson and how he made a mistake. Tyson was worth a lot to the Mavs but Phil's insistence of including Felton lowered the return Value of any trade.

Its the same thing with the Shump and Smith trade, the Knicks have away the 2 best players for some garbage because JR was perceived as a bad seed and they needed a change of culture. The Cavs covered Shump though and if they would have kept JR out of the deal they would have had more leverage. In reality they still had leverage because GM Bron wanted both. Phil should have played hardball and if they didn't bite wait until the summer..

Phil's likes quick fixes and misses long term options. The Knicks should of had a 1st from both deals or Reggie Jackson in the 3-team trade but at least they got 3 guys they cut. Lance turned out okay though. Phil best trade was Pablo when he got 2 2nd rd picks. 2 picks for a 3 string of but couldn't get anything more for Tyson, Shump, ad JR. Lol.

I disagree. Most of what you say here is just fiction and not many facts if any.

fiction? thats weak ... that was a very good post.

CrushAlot wrote:Berman reporting that Early is attending. I think Early gets resigned.

its great to see that all of our young players are interested in bettering themselves. cohesion is key. a healthy melo, 2 or 3 key FA, add in this young core and it's a solid, solid foundation. it'd be cool if they are filming this and air some of it on MSG

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i find it strange that people try and say any system in basketball is outdated. if the warriors were running the triangle, they'd be just as good as they are currently. any and all systems need good players to perform well and when we have good players, everyone will say the triangle works wonders. why do some people get so caught up in nonsense?

Because we don't have the players to run the system effectively, It's that simple

just imagine if we had kurt Thomas, kidd, camby, rasheed, prigioni, fatty felton, and we had a coach that insisted on a system that had those guys running like a track meet, you would look at him like an idiot. Like why would he think these older veterans have the stamina to run up and down the court.

Get the players and coach that can run your system effectively, get a coach that can run the system, but also has the brains to other things. Phil just seems to be doing everything backwards, hoping for the best

Exactly right, we don't have the players. It's like people just seem to forget that we are in the middle of a rebuild and that this was Phil's first year of making additions. We are cap strapped and have been since Phil got the job so there's zero way to do a complete rebuild in one season and is why i keep saying that with two more off seasons to make more additions with we will have a team that's ready to compete but some of you expect it to happen by snapping your fingers and it just doesn't work like that.

Once Phil gets this team back to where we're winning games again we'll be back to being that New York Knicks team that free agents will want to come play for. Every player loves playing in the Garden and they say it all the time with Derozan being the most recent big name to say it, the only problem for us is that as of now they like being the visiting team to come play in the Garden but when we get this team back to where we want it and KP is playing like a all star players are gonna want to come and play with him.

PATIENCE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you just say we are cash strap???? That's the biggest joke of all time, Phil traded or waived exipiring contracts...Grunwald made sure he didn't sign anyone for more then 3 yrs, Felt 1 yr left, Tyson 1 yr left, shump expiring, amare expiring, prigion expiring, melo opt out.

Phil did not come in here hoping to rebuild sht, he made minor moves with the Tyson trade, and when he saw most of the roster was not receptive to the Triangle he went with plan b , he wanted to get rid of JR, and gave Cleveland a gift in shump.What makes matters worse is that Jr opted out anyway.

Phil could have let last season rideout, but FCK it, he got Kp by tanking. That does not screamed (top executive move)any dope could have hired and in experience coach and tank a season away. Don't talk about culture change when he only manage to keep 25% of the roster he put together last season intact.after all the waives and trades.

You guys need to stop praising phil like he's PAT RILEY OR SOMETHING..Every single move phil has , any avg to below avg GM is capable of.

Impress by getting top Fa to come here, or make a savvy trade

You have so much anger in you but you just keep spewing false information out of your mouth and pretty much the whole board disagrees with everything you say. lol

Dude I can go pull up every article after every trade, im not saying anything that hasn't been documented.. What exactly am I saying that wasn't true.. Am I making up the contracts that were waived or traded, Phil said it himself, JR wasn't really on board, so he traded him, and since no one really wanted him, he put shump as the cherry on top.

I don't have any anger at all towards phil, but im not praising him and putting down rose peddles before he walks like you are.

If you can give me one savvy move that he has made..

but majority of the players he waived or traded are in the PLAYOFFS..

Where are the TOP FA willing to sacrifice and come TO NY to learn the triangle...

Phil is only hiring his friends?

When Phil traded JR, either no one really wanted him or there was a nod and wink collusion to get him to Cleveland to team with LeBron. Jackson had little or no leverage and didn't want to waste the second half of the season on a dead end. Shump was no cherry on top - his injury history gave all Knicks fans pause and he would have been a FA whose signing would have been unlikely. Jackson turned them into future assets.

Phil's savvy move is to stay true to his mission. No more bipolar basketball moves. No more unpredictable expectations. Exercise a responsible budget. Don't overpay. Be honest to the press. Stick by the players even when they aren't perfect. Don't be afraid to take risks or be called a fool.

Nobody's granting Phil sainthood but he's our best chance to break the cycle of chronic hopelessness that plagued the team previously. Everyone with half a brain knew this would be a long, hard process with plenty of anguish.