nixluva wrote:When was the Triangle ever too predictable over the history of Phil's winning? Is it the system or the fact that this team still doesn't have enough key talent in the right spots and also Fish had issues trying to tweak things so that he could get the best out of his players. Fish could have made the tough call to move Jose to the bench but he didn't do it. The Knicks could've started games looking to run more Drag Screens and PnR out of the Triangle but Fish didn't make that change. Obviously the injuries to core players didn't help either. I don't think the System is the core problem as some do. It's about implementation, execution, lineup decisions etc.

I don't think the problem with Fisher was primarily about basketball . . .

nixluva wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:When was the Triangle ever too predictable over the history of Phil's winning? Is it the system or the fact that this team still doesn't have enough key talent in the right spots and also Fish had issues trying to tweak things so that he could get the best out of his players. Fish could have made the tough call to move Jose to the bench but he didn't do it. The Knicks could've started games looking to run more Drag Screens and PnR out of the Triangle but Fish didn't make that change. Obviously the injuries to core players didn't help either. I don't think the System is the core problem as some do. It's about implementation, execution, lineup decisions etc.

I don't think so.

I don't think the problem with Fisher was primarily about basketball . . .

It's possible, but with the team losing as it has I can't imagine it wasn't way at the top of the list of issues. Even if it wasn't solely about basketball, i'm sure it was a major factor.

It was both character and performance on the court. You can't trade barbs with Rondo when your team is losing 9 out of 10 games.

This isn't even mentioning the "process" stupid comment and the Govan/Barnes saga.

gunsnewing wrote:

Chandler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Im wondering if Derek was just not into the gig and working hard enough to learn the craft? Certainly had the cred coming in and a world of respect.
Its a seduction to get paid what he did and take on the NYC thing but the reality is its a tough ass job!!!!!!

Maybe Knicks1969 gets his wish and Luke gets the gig next year. Dolan can't be happy with Phil right now. I mean how much money can a dude spend on coach's!!!!

FWIW I don't see why Dolan would be mad. Phil's top choice was Kerr, and Kerr certainly validated that judgment. Fisher was a good choice that didn't work out. Did we miss out on another candidate by taking Fisher?

I will keep my fingers crossed with Rambis. I was not impressed with him when he was with Minn. but will be optimistic. The timing of this firing and the replacement with Rambis is very curious. Earlier in the season, Fisher used to get a little testy when Phil's name was raised. He was almost insecure with the topic, being a little brusque in reminding people he, not Phil, was the coach. I'm left to wonder whether the relationship soured, with Fisher not welcoming Phil's suggestions or what?

Perhaps Phil just blew a gasket when Fisher played KOQ, Serpahin and Lou yesterday (including a KOQ Seraphin tandem) all before D Will left the bench

I read up a few years ago about Rambis stint in Minny. He made a bad mistake taking the job as Kahn was the GM and had the task of taking the triangle to the team with a roster not condusive and no clout. He had to convert Jonny Flynn to be his PG. Bad fit.

We don't know if he wants the full time gig, or is even considered for it. for now, the team will make adjustments and try to get back on track.

Kurt Rambis was also the guy that thought Al Jefferson was the better bet over Kevin Love. From what I recollect, he also wanted to get Kevin Love traded and kept him on the bench. Needless to say, I'm not terribly optimistic about Rambis either. It's Walton-Shaw or bust for me.

I don't want Shaw at all. He was horrible with Denver and they had some good talent on those teams. If i could choose i'd think about bringing JVG back and maybe he could get Thibs to come back with him as a assistant. I doubt it but i do think JVG would be a good choice.

Van Gundy is a horrible coach for today's league. He showed a general lack of creativity and adjustments throughout his coaching career, so I doubt that'd change during a 2nd stint with us.

I also REALLY would hate to have Brian as our head coach. He's a poor leader and players generally don't seem to respect him (see Andre Miller). But as a lead assistant, I think he brings a lot more to the table from an X's and O's perspective. The Pacers haven't been the same since he left and I don't think that was by accident.

Agree re JVG. I am confident that that will never, ever, ever happen with Phil as GM.

ALso interesting take on SHaw. Would be a nice pairing to have Luke with experienced assistants.

Fisher had experienced assistants. It doesn't work if the players don't respect the rookie coach unfortunately

did you notice in yesterday's game rambis was 10' outside the huddle?

Chandler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Chandler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Im wondering if Derek was just not into the gig and working hard enough to learn the craft? Certainly had the cred coming in and a world of respect.
Its a seduction to get paid what he did and take on the NYC thing but the reality is its a tough ass job!!!!!!

Maybe Knicks1969 gets his wish and Luke gets the gig next year. Dolan can't be happy with Phil right now. I mean how much money can a dude spend on coach's!!!!

FWIW I don't see why Dolan would be mad. Phil's top choice was Kerr, and Kerr certainly validated that judgment. Fisher was a good choice that didn't work out. Did we miss out on another candidate by taking Fisher?

I will keep my fingers crossed with Rambis. I was not impressed with him when he was with Minn. but will be optimistic. The timing of this firing and the replacement with Rambis is very curious. Earlier in the season, Fisher used to get a little testy when Phil's name was raised. He was almost insecure with the topic, being a little brusque in reminding people he, not Phil, was the coach. I'm left to wonder whether the relationship soured, with Fisher not welcoming Phil's suggestions or what?

Perhaps Phil just blew a gasket when Fisher played KOQ, Serpahin and Lou yesterday (including a KOQ Seraphin tandem) all before D Will left the bench

I read up a few years ago about Rambis stint in Minny. He made a bad mistake taking the job as Kahn was the GM and had the task of taking the triangle to the team with a roster not condusive and no clout. He had to convert Jonny Flynn to be his PG. Bad fit.

We don't know if he wants the full time gig, or is even considered for it. for now, the team will make adjustments and try to get back on track.

Kurt Rambis was also the guy that thought Al Jefferson was the better bet over Kevin Love. From what I recollect, he also wanted to get Kevin Love traded and kept him on the bench. Needless to say, I'm not terribly optimistic about Rambis either. It's Walton-Shaw or bust for me.

I don't want Shaw at all. He was horrible with Denver and they had some good talent on those teams. If i could choose i'd think about bringing JVG back and maybe he could get Thibs to come back with him as a assistant. I doubt it but i do think JVG would be a good choice.

Van Gundy is a horrible coach for today's league. He showed a general lack of creativity and adjustments throughout his coaching career, so I doubt that'd change during a 2nd stint with us.

I also REALLY would hate to have Brian as our head coach. He's a poor leader and players generally don't seem to respect him (see Andre Miller). But as a lead assistant, I think he brings a lot more to the table from an X's and O's perspective. The Pacers haven't been the same since he left and I don't think that was by accident.

Agree re JVG. I am confident that that will never, ever, ever happen with Phil as GM.

ALso interesting take on SHaw. Would be a nice pairing to have Luke with experienced assistants.

Fisher had experienced assistants. It doesn't work if the players don't respect the rookie coach unfortunately

did you notice in yesterday's game rambis was 10' outside the huddle?

I noticed that rambis did the post half time interview and he seemed pretty irked and he is not the one who usually does that interview.

Knicks1969 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:Well i guess i'm owed a thank you from you haters cause Phil was obviously waiting for me to give up on him before he fired him.

Nah dude, you owe me an apology for all the abuses you dished at me for calling this buffoon out

dude we took the most heat all the way back to the end of last season, although I don't think Rambis will be much better

Exactly. These cats around here thought we had no clue about the game, when it is them who need to look in the mirror.

Hold on a minute here......so you think that because you guys didn't like Fisher and wanted him fired that you are now filled with basketball knowledge?? Hahahaha OK.

Dude be honest with yourself! If you were a bigger man, you would just apologize for the insults and move on. I kept my cool, and not once ever disrespected you and your twin.

How about you set the standard on that Knicks1969, seems as if many have corrected you on things that are absolutely verifiable and there isn't a peep from you.

Classic Butterfly Effect event...and unfortunately, the effect it had was negative for the team.

Chandler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Chandler wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Im wondering if Derek was just not into the gig and working hard enough to learn the craft? Certainly had the cred coming in and a world of respect.
Its a seduction to get paid what he did and take on the NYC thing but the reality is its a tough ass job!!!!!!

Maybe Knicks1969 gets his wish and Luke gets the gig next year. Dolan can't be happy with Phil right now. I mean how much money can a dude spend on coach's!!!!

FWIW I don't see why Dolan would be mad. Phil's top choice was Kerr, and Kerr certainly validated that judgment. Fisher was a good choice that didn't work out. Did we miss out on another candidate by taking Fisher?

I will keep my fingers crossed with Rambis. I was not impressed with him when he was with Minn. but will be optimistic. The timing of this firing and the replacement with Rambis is very curious. Earlier in the season, Fisher used to get a little testy when Phil's name was raised. He was almost insecure with the topic, being a little brusque in reminding people he, not Phil, was the coach. I'm left to wonder whether the relationship soured, with Fisher not welcoming Phil's suggestions or what?

Perhaps Phil just blew a gasket when Fisher played KOQ, Serpahin and Lou yesterday (including a KOQ Seraphin tandem) all before D Will left the bench

I read up a few years ago about Rambis stint in Minny. He made a bad mistake taking the job as Kahn was the GM and had the task of taking the triangle to the team with a roster not condusive and no clout. He had to convert Jonny Flynn to be his PG. Bad fit.

We don't know if he wants the full time gig, or is even considered for it. for now, the team will make adjustments and try to get back on track.

Kurt Rambis was also the guy that thought Al Jefferson was the better bet over Kevin Love. From what I recollect, he also wanted to get Kevin Love traded and kept him on the bench. Needless to say, I'm not terribly optimistic about Rambis either. It's Walton-Shaw or bust for me.

I don't want Shaw at all. He was horrible with Denver and they had some good talent on those teams. If i could choose i'd think about bringing JVG back and maybe he could get Thibs to come back with him as a assistant. I doubt it but i do think JVG would be a good choice.

Van Gundy is a horrible coach for today's league. He showed a general lack of creativity and adjustments throughout his coaching career, so I doubt that'd change during a 2nd stint with us.

I also REALLY would hate to have Brian as our head coach. He's a poor leader and players generally don't seem to respect him (see Andre Miller). But as a lead assistant, I think he brings a lot more to the table from an X's and O's perspective. The Pacers haven't been the same since he left and I don't think that was by accident.

Agree re JVG. I am confident that that will never, ever, ever happen with Phil as GM.

ALso interesting take on SHaw. Would be a nice pairing to have Luke with experienced assistants.

Fisher had experienced assistants. It doesn't work if the players don't respect the rookie coach unfortunately

did you notice in yesterday's game rambis was 10' outside the huddle?

Alan Hahn was saying that Fisher was gravitating toward his younger assistants, who I think were from the Thunder, and that Rambis had been pushed to the side.

Wonder if some of the other assistants might be let go, too?

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:When was the Triangle ever too predictable over the history of Phil's winning? Is it the system or the fact that this team still doesn't have enough key talent in the right spots and also Fish had issues trying to tweak things so that he could get the best out of his players. Fish could have made the tough call to move Jose to the bench but he didn't do it. The Knicks could've started games looking to run more Drag Screens and PnR out of the Triangle but Fish didn't make that change. Obviously the injuries to core players didn't help either. I don't think the System is the core problem as some do. It's about implementation, execution, lineup decisions etc.

I don't think so.

I don't think the problem with Fisher was primarily about basketball . . .

It's possible, but with the team losing as it has I can't imagine it wasn't way at the top of the list of issues. Even if it wasn't solely about basketball, i'm sure it was a major factor.

It was both character and performance on the court. You can't trade barbs with Rondo when your team is losing 9 out of 10 games.

This isn't even mentioning the "process" stupid comment and the Govan/Barnes saga.

funny thing is, if you look at what ROndo said it wasn't a barb. He didn't say triangle was bad or dated. He said it wasn't a good look for him. ANd he was right. Rondo was smart enough to know he's a ball dominant guard (and effective in that regard)with a poor outside shot.