gunsnewing wrote:I just want to remind Crzy that he is one of my favorite long time posters. One of the most fair and balanced posters for sure. This thread is uncharacteristic of him. We all are a little overreactive from time to time and just blurt things out without thinking things through. My issues are not with you Crzy keeping doin what you do some well

dude, honestly, i think maybe you take the posting a little too much to heart?

gunsnewing wrote:I just want to remind Crzy that he is one of my favorite long time posters. One of the most fair and balanced posters for sure. This thread is uncharacteristic of him. We all are a little overreactive from time to time and just blurt things out without thinking things through. My issues are not with you Crzy keeping doin what you do some well

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

But more importantly, why is it relevant?

Porzingis is an awesome rookie who would be good without Melo and will someday be great without him.

Melo is a very good player who had been hurt by his own hand and his circumstances in the past.

Porzingis is likely better with Melo than without and that will likely be true for some time.

Melo is likely better with Porzingis and to other lesser degrees Lopez and Afflalo.

Knicks are improving and likely at their best this year and next with Porzingis and Melo.

These things can all be true at the same time. Why is the minutiae of it so important?

Shouldn't be any minutiae. Shouldn't be relevant is the whole point.

OP wanted to incite another Melo wankfest as to saying Melo's absence was the sole reason KP struggled and the Knicks lost.

It was a 1 possession game with 2 minutes left against the lowly Nets! Really this thread should never have been created.

Fair enough, but you're a big role player in this board dynamic too, consistently fixated on the minutiae of the pecking order of KP and Melo when it is not relevant and who is helping who more.

I'm all for righting wrongs. When I see a mistake I try to correct it.

You have no means to persuade others to what you see as more accurate views when you forgo credibility by hypocrisy. Responding with happy faces when this is fairly pointed out to you just undermines you more.

Stay in character then and don't point fingers at others. Yours have all been cut off long ago.

Looks like LivingLegend and gunsnewing have grown back my fingers.

Okay, are you saying there "shouldn't be any minutiae. Shouldn't be relevant is the whole point."

Or are you saying on any given day you are not fixated on the minutiae of the pecking order of Melo & KP?

Can't be both.

On this given day the minutiae of the pecking order of Melo & KP was irrelevant.

On EVERY given day, is the point.

That's what I'm saying. Forget about Melo and KP hierarchy for one second.

And that's hypocrisy, because you never forget it and make a point of it all the time including when it's not relevant, because it never is.

OP was trying to paint a picture that 1 guy affected the game, it's players and outcome. It did but only a certain extent.

Fair enough. Melo may or may not have flipped the outcome of the game, right?

Melo playing, probably a coin flip, because he would have dead 31 year old legs as well.

Sure he would've helped, but Fisher has to know when to extend the rotation.

He played 8 guys. On a back to back. That is why they lost simple and plain.

Can't win when you got guys running on fumes and have no legs. Can't defend, can't contest. Nets shooting like 52% overall and 52% from 3 attest to this, and that's uncharacteristic of both teams. Knicks have become one of the best contesters of 3s in the league, and the Nets are near the bottom of most offensive categories including 3s and 3 point percentage(31% from downtown collectively).

Played 9 against the Hawks, then 10 against the Heat in Miami last week. Two of 10 played 8 (Grant) and 5 (O'Quinn) mins, respectively.

So O'Quinn, Seraphin and/or Amundson for x mins means the Knicks win the game? No doubt about it?

Yup. Every minute counts. If you don't think those breathers mean anything, you obviously never played sports.

btw, none of this changes your hypocrisy on the Melp/Kp minutiae issue, but that said...

If you've ever played sports you know there is no certainties like you're suggesting. Any of those three guys could have had a negative impact on the game, making winning a steeper hill to climb for the rotation guys. The exact impact of a handful of minutes is unknowable. KP could have had a bad shooting night in 30 mins as opposed to 40.

If you want to continue to suggest a undetermined # of mins by 3 arguably net-negative players would guarantee a different outcome in the game, you're giving up any claims to having played sports on a competitive level.

Might have given the Knicks a better shot? Maybe. That's a reasonable argument. But nothing is as absolute as it being made to be.

You keep side stepping the issue though. Looks like you're the hypocrite. Fisher should've extended the rotation on a back to back. He let his players languish unnecessarily. He let his prized rookie play 37 minutes on a night he was clearly winded. KP and RoLo were routinely getting roasted out there uncharacteristically. Fisher should've played Lou and KoQ even for a couple minutes each. PERIOD.

Side stepping & deflecting is an issue with these people

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Bottom line it's not enough that Melo is playing superb Basketball. You guys are more into getting into with other posters. Which IMO is the main thing that drags this community down

so would you say you are no longer having concerns about *any* prospect developing next to Melo?

I guess when you sit through a couple years of bad posting and agendas it takes some time to detox

What Knickoftime said.

A handful of guys sat through two years of nonstop Melo hate and Guns there was no bigger culprit than you constantly daily reminding us that
1) his contract is garbage
2) we would be better off just parting ways
3) he's going to ruin this environment for any high pick/prospect we bring in

OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Good to see you now crying about dragging down the community. Hypocrisy at its finest. Glad to see you are enjoying the Knicks again, and that last sentence was not sarcastic at all... I honestly am, because few people's words were more miserable to read about here than yours. You rubbed our noses in it at every opportunity.

Sorry guys... eat crow.

Oh.. and go Knicks.

His contract is still garbage and will be worse if he gets injured and misses significant time. Again it's year 13 for Melo at $25mil per. Melo gets injured we go back to wining under 30 games aka the H20, Dice, Curry & Amare years. Cap hell and nothing we can do but let the players contract expire. Now I hope that doesn't happen especially with the way Melo has been playing and the chemistry with KP being near the top of his recent success. But if he does get injured don't worry I will remember to return the favor and rub it in your face from time to time

Swishfm3 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

dk7th wrote:trade which melo? the one that played here prior to this season or the one that is playing great since the arrival of kp?

What difference does it make? Trade the former you also traded the latter.

Correct. You trade both Melos, especially today's DadMelo to get some value back, so you can finally move forward as a franchise.

you're really getting carried away. melo is a very valuable player right now. i enjoy watching him play for the first time. the issue is the unfortunately-titled thread. seems like trying to stir up trouble where it just isn't warranted.

the issue is that we have not seen this melo ever before, so why pretend otherwise, which is why the thread-starter is a wee bit gratuitous and jejune.

It's gratuitous and jejune and inflammatory to point out that Melo helps get KP easier shots?

This wasn't the intention. It's to point out another faucet of how well Melo is playing. And how ridiculous a notion it is to trade him to "help" KP as some posters on this very page are still suggesting.

Your post was fine. We all agreed with it. It's the title like dk said that turned this thread into another witch hunt thread about other forum members specifically Chuck. That's the way it came across as evident by the posts. Another witch hunt thread. Again the body of the post was great but then again you probably would t bother to create the thread if there wasn't some alterior motives

Naw man...You and ChuckBuck ruined the thread.

Like always.

Another clueless one. Totally oblivious to how this started because of what was said in the title and would've probably never been started if not for alterior motives. Go crawl back under a rock now

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

btw, none of this changes your hypocrisy on the Melp/Kp minutiae issue, but that said...

If you've ever played sports you know there is no certainties like you're suggesting. Any of those three guys could have had a negative impact on the game, making winning a steeper hill to climb for the rotation guys. The exact impact of a handful of minutes is unknowable. KP could have had a bad shooting night in 30 mins as opposed to 40.

If you want to continue to suggest a undetermined # of mins by 3 arguably net-negative players would guarantee a different outcome in the game, you're giving up any claims to having played sports on a competitive level.

Might have given the Knicks a better shot? Maybe. That's a reasonable argument. But nothing is as absolute as it being made to be.

You keep side stepping the issue though. Looks like you're the hypocrite. Fisher should've extended the rotation on a back to back. He let his players languish unnecessarily. He let his prized rookie play 37 minutes on a night he was clearly winded. KP and RoLo were routinely getting roasted out there uncharacteristically. Fisher should've played Lou and KoQ even for a couple minutes each. PERIOD.

Side stepping & deflecting is an issue with these people

See, somehow I'm a "these people" instead of someone with an individual opinion.

I didn't sidestep the issue at all, it was the last thing I acknowledged in the post he responded to.

Yet with that right in front of you, you took Chuck's side and cast a wide net, why?

Because you and Chuck somewhat agree about Melo, so everything he does is right?

LivingLegend wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Melo creates so much space and takes so much attention off KP. When the Nets played the Knicks at the Garden, they had to put Thad Young, their best defender, on Melo. Melo out? KP gets the other team's best defender and gets no space to operate.

Also, I think a lot of people noticed how much the defense suffered without Melo, too.

This is why keeping Melo really helps KP's development. He's not ready to be a #1 option - Melo's pressence immeasurably helps KP's game in all faucets.

Good thread cause people were definitely starting the "this is KP's team" way too early. Without Melo we're back to being a average team.

below average. Cute to see Chuck clinging to his misguided and desperate notions... let me know how that works out for ya.

Everyone with a brain and eyes sees what Melo means to KP. Some just cant cope. Its bizarre but not my problem. Looking forward to Saturday.

YES and KP does nothing for Melo -- we get it.

Melo without KP on the floor -7
KP without Melo on the floor -10

They need each other, but the OP's stance still stands; the best player on this team is Melo. have a nice day.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

dk7th wrote:trade which melo? the one that played here prior to this season or the one that is playing great since the arrival of kp?

What difference does it make? Trade the former you also traded the latter.

Correct. You trade both Melos, especially today's DadMelo to get some value back, so you can finally move forward as a franchise.

you're really getting carried away. melo is a very valuable player right now. i enjoy watching him play for the first time. the issue is the unfortunately-titled thread. seems like trying to stir up trouble where it just isn't warranted.

the issue is that we have not seen this melo ever before, so why pretend otherwise, which is why the thread-starter is a wee bit gratuitous and jejune.

I don't mind Melo's play right now. It's all the critics ever wanted from him from the get go.

From George Karl, from Mike D'Antoni, from Mike Woodson. They all wanted this version of Melo.

Someone that's a willing distributor that picks their spots to take over, and play defense on every possesion, not when they feel like it.

Anyone that thinks Melo's always played this way in the past is just delusional biased rose tinted glasses homer liars.

who thinks melo has played this way in the past? obviously hes changed his game up a bit and has started trusting his teammates much more than he ever has. i don't think there is a person on this board denying that.

There's a small segment in here that think Melo's always played like this, just his supporting cast has changed. That he's been passing as much as he is now and playing D, but the guys around him weren't good enough.

That is obviously patently wrong.

But more importantly, why is it relevant?

Porzingis is an awesome rookie who would be good without Melo and will someday be great without him.

Melo is a very good player who had been hurt by his own hand and his circumstances in the past.

Porzingis is likely better with Melo than without and that will likely be true for some time.

Melo is likely better with Porzingis and to other lesser degrees Lopez and Afflalo.

Knicks are improving and likely at their best this year and next with Porzingis and Melo.

These things can all be true at the same time. Why is the minutiae of it so important?

Shouldn't be any minutiae. Shouldn't be relevant is the whole point.

OP wanted to incite another Melo wankfest as to saying Melo's absence was the sole reason KP struggled and the Knicks lost.

It was a 1 possession game with 2 minutes left against the lowly Nets! Really this thread should never have been created.

Fair enough, but you're a big role player in this board dynamic too, consistently fixated on the minutiae of the pecking order of KP and Melo when it is not relevant and who is helping who more.

I'm all for righting wrongs. When I see a mistake I try to correct it.

You have no means to persuade others to what you see as more accurate views when you forgo credibility by hypocrisy. Responding with happy faces when this is fairly pointed out to you just undermines you more.

Stay in character then and don't point fingers at others. Yours have all been cut off long ago.

Looks like LivingLegend and gunsnewing have grown back my fingers.

Okay, are you saying there "shouldn't be any minutiae. Shouldn't be relevant is the whole point."

Or are you saying on any given day you are not fixated on the minutiae of the pecking order of Melo & KP?

Can't be both.

On this given day the minutiae of the pecking order of Melo & KP was irrelevant.

This particular game (Nets) was lost by the coach. Too many minutes to tired players, didn't make adjustments, didn't get out on Bogdanovich, didn't extend his rotation even a little bit.

That's what I'm saying. Forget about Melo and KP hierarchy for one second. OP was trying to paint a picture that 1 guy affected the game, it's players and outcome. It did but only a certain extent. It didn't affect KP's tired legs, it didn't affect the overall Knicks team flat in the beginning of the 1st quarter, and it didn't effect the atrocious rotations in the 4th quarter.

Do you understand, or do I have to break it down in even simpler terms?

Do you understand you're talking about the impact the best player on the team would have had on KP, who admitted HIMSELF he struggled more against the Lowly Nets D without PapaMelo on the floor?
Do you understand disgusting 4th quarter rotations would have been impacted by having the best player on the team on the floor in the 4th quarter and throughout the game?
Do you understand the extent of the term "best player on the team"?

You are so blatantly ignorant it's barely worth responding to. Glad you can maintain that idiotic superiority in the face of another ALL STAR YEAR FOR MELO.

StarksEwing1 wrote:I agree melo helps KP but he isnt a main factor...KP is responsible for his tremendous rookie year

The importance of the distinction alludes me.

KP is having a better rookie year due to the presence of someone who justifiably is the center of gravity of the offense, so he doesn't have to be.

This is both accurate and not a knock on KP. Why is it being regarded as such?

gunsnewing wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Bottom line it's not enough that Melo is playing superb Basketball. You guys are more into getting into with other posters. Which IMO is the main thing that drags this community down

so would you say you are no longer having concerns about *any* prospect developing next to Melo?

I guess when you sit through a couple years of bad posting and agendas it takes some time to detox

What Knickoftime said.

A handful of guys sat through two years of nonstop Melo hate and Guns there was no bigger culprit than you constantly daily reminding us that
1) his contract is garbage
2) we would be better off just parting ways
3) he's going to ruin this environment for any high pick/prospect we bring in

OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Good to see you now crying about dragging down the community. Hypocrisy at its finest. Glad to see you are enjoying the Knicks again, and that last sentence was not sarcastic at all... I honestly am, because few people's words were more miserable to read about here than yours. You rubbed our noses in it at every opportunity.

Sorry guys... eat crow.

Oh.. and go Knicks.

His contract is still garbage and will be worse if he gets injured and misses significant time. Again it's year 13 for Melo at $25mil per. Melo gets injured we go back to wining under 30 games aka the H20, Dice, Curry & Amare years. Cap hell and nothing we can do but let the players contract expire. Now I hope that doesn't happen especially with the way Melo has been playing and the chemistry with KP being near the top of his recent success. But if he does get injured don't worry I will remember to return the favor and rub it in your face from time to time

I entirely miss the point of this post.

Whose $18m plus contract isn't a hinderence of the player gets significantly injured?

What team isn't taking a big step backward if their best player is injured?

You seem to be taking common sense point and implying it applies uniquely to Melo. Maybe I misunderstand you?

Don't worry about it. As long as Fishmike knows exactly where I stand today

So asking a fair and relevant question isn't appreciated.

Got it.

gunsnewing wrote:Just look at the garbage incoherent nonsensical posts you get from a deranged person like jrodmc as a prime example. Brings the forum IQ & morale down

Mr. Empty One Liner, the king of UK morale.

I don't know about you, guns, but my morale is just fine. Try developing your own worldview and opinions and posting about them before informing us that you're the IQ and morale barometer for the site.