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Emmanuel Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4...
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blkexec
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7/17/2015  3:53 PM
Fresh...you have my attention now. Sorry I didn't think this thread would take off like this, since my first response on page 1.....But I'll check in more frequently now, so you don't think I'm running. Nobody is disrespecting your view point, in case you think thats the case. Just like you said, you also have to respect others that disagrees with you. Respect is like a two way player.....It goes both ways!
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ESOMKnicks
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7/17/2015  3:55 PM
Picking a guard that can't shoot (esp FTs) over a center who can't rebound would've still been a gamble. I would have preferred to see us pick Mudiay, but KP may very well end up being the better option for us. If we know how to use him properly.
blkexec
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7/17/2015  3:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2015  4:00 PM
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

It's an open forum.....I will never and can never control what you say, think or write. Freedom of speech. I wasn't trying to come across that way. But I'm a little confused on how Mudiay is an option right now. He was an option...And would've been a good talent to have, but not sure if he WAS a great option for the triangle.

But it's like buying a BMW (which I just bought)....Then a few days later, my neighbor bought a different BMW that looks better and it was within my financial range. There's nothing I can do about it now. Do I stare in the window at him and his car.....Or check that off as a mental note and move on until the next opportunity to buy another car. And by then, I might not even want a BMW anymore.

So again, you can and I'm sure you will say and write about anything you want. I just don't see how Mudiay RIGHT NOW....is an option for us. And I don't see how you or anybody can say based on a few summer league games watching Mudiay in a completely different system, under a different coach with different players, would've been any better than Grant.

Thats my opinion, just like you have yours.

thats the point holfresh... we all argued get this guy or that guy BEFORE the draft. At this point its just sour grapes. Again.. look at the title of the thread.

Is it time to go home yet? Ug... 4:30, where are you?

Fresh, you replied every 5 mins to every thread for 8 pages.....Just want to make sure you understand my point, so we can move on. No one is stopping you from being a Mudiay fan. But unless you have a plan on kid knapping him or forcing Denver to trade him, I don't see the point. Yes he's a great player and will be great. Just like most of the players in this draft class.....I can't wait to see a Grant vs Mudiay matchup.....I still think Grant is either on the same page as Mudiay, or slightly below Mudiay. Keep in mind, slightly below means we got a top ten player at 19.....Maybe it's just me, but I like bargains! Buy low sell high....

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ChuckBuck
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7/17/2015  4:03 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

you are not happy with the KP pick?


Did you miss my barage of threads the day of the draft..
I'll summarize..I don't see the point of a 7 foot 3 pt jumper shooter who can't rebound..He doesn't have the strength to play the post at this level..

you can't see the big potential?

Obviously if you judge them as of today, there were a number of better options.


The issue though is that there are guys the same age as him who are playing much better.
For KP to catch up to and then pass them, you have to project exponentially faster growth for him than the other players. Obviously it's possible but it sounds like wishful thinking.

Very possible. Anthony Randolph put up 26 pts a game a few years ago in summer league. Marcus Williams averaged nearly double digit assists a couple years ago. Jeremy Tyler is a monster this year. SL isn't a strong barometer of anything really.

If KP could just match this guy's Rookie Season, we could be in for a treat in a few years:


Season    Age  Tm  Lg Pos    G   GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P% eFG%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1998-99 20 XYZ NBA PF 47 24 20.4 2.9 7.1 .405 0.3 1.4 .206 2.6 5.7 .455 .426 2.1 2.7 .773 0.9 2.6 3.4 1.0 0.6 0.6 1.6 2.2 8.2

Cup o noodles for whoever guess who's rookie season this is.

ESOMKnicks
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7/17/2015  4:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2015  4:09 PM
That's too easy. I think all Knicks fans are staring at the stat line for this guy right now.
blkexec
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7/17/2015  4:09 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:
mreinman wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

you are not happy with the KP pick?


Did you miss my barage of threads the day of the draft..
I'll summarize..I don't see the point of a 7 foot 3 pt jumper shooter who can't rebound..He doesn't have the strength to play the post at this level..

you can't see the big potential?

Obviously if you judge them as of today, there were a number of better options.


The issue though is that there are guys the same age as him who are playing much better.
For KP to catch up to and then pass them, you have to project exponentially faster growth for him than the other players. Obviously it's possible but it sounds like wishful thinking.

Very possible. Anthony Randolph put up 26 pts a game a few years ago in summer league. Marcus Williams averaged nearly double digit assists a couple years ago. Jeremy Tyler is a monster this year. SL isn't a strong barometer of anything really.

If KP could just match this guy's Rookie Season, we could be in for a treat in a few years:


Season    Age  Tm  Lg Pos    G   GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P% eFG%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1998-99 20 XYZ NBA PF 47 24 20.4 2.9 7.1 .405 0.3 1.4 .206 2.6 5.7 .455 .426 2.1 2.7 .773 0.9 2.6 3.4 1.0 0.6 0.6 1.6 2.2 8.2

Cup o noodles for whoever guess who's rookie season this is.

SL is good for coaches to see how their draft picks can grasp their system, while playing against real time defenders. Thats it. Thats probably why they didn't play him a lot, because it's stupid to get injured in a SL game (like Smart did with his finger), because these games mean nothing. Plus KP wasn't even suppose to play in the SL, due to a hip injury. It's not like the hip just healed all of a sudden. KP will be fine from what I saw. He exceeded my expectation, and removed that potential bust label hanging over his head. Thats all you can really take from a summer league game, against other D league players who will never be an NBA player.

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WaltLongmire
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7/17/2015  4:50 PM
Holfresh's cherry picking continues to amaze me, sometimes. I'm sure if Winslow had shown anything to excite folks in Orlando, his name might have replaced Mudiay's in this thread title, but that did not pan out, I guess, as he not only got injured, which is unfortunate, but also was kept out of one game for "general soreness," and only played 7 minutes of another game.

Porzingis came into SL with a rep for not being strong enough yet, and that was confirmed to some extent, although he clearly showed some toughness some were not expecting.

People thought he might not be able to play D, but that was disproven, and you only have to look at the second half and the final minutes of the Philly game to see what he will have to offer in the future. Can't recall who he had those 3 blocks on, though.

I don't think KPs shooting was as good as we would have wanted to see, but he has a track record which tells us this will not be a problem for him.


Mudiay came into the SL with a rep for being some kind of superior athlete...I saw no evidence of him being anything more than a fine athlete with excellent length for a PG.

Mudiay came into SL with a reputation as a good passer, which he is, yet his turnover rate was not very good at all, and in his final 3 games it was at a 1/1 ratio.

Mudiay, who does not have a history of being a good shooter, and was probably passed over in the draft because of this, showed that he is not a good shooter. 38.5 FG%...14% from the 3!...50% FT. His shooting stats would have been even worse if he had taken any 3's in his last game. Unlike KP, though, there is nothing in his past that makes you think that his SL shooting was not the norm for him at this point.


eason	        G	GS	MPG	FG%	3P%	FT%	OFF	DEF	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TO	PF	PPG
2015 DEN 4 4 30.5 0.385 0.143 0.500 0 14 3.5 5.8 1.2 0.2 5.00 2.75 12.0

DateOpponent	Result	MIN	FGM-A	3PM-A	FTM-A	OFF	DEF	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	PTS
Jul 16 at ATL L 73-82 27 4-9 0-0 0-0 0 3 3 1 2 0 7 3 8
Jul 13 at MIA W 86-83 34 4-13 1-5 1-4 0 3 3 8 0 0 5 5 10
Jul 12 at SAC W 98-76 35 7-15 1-5 4-7 0 3 3 10 3 0 6 2 19
Jul 10 at ATL W 86-71 25 5-15 0-4 1-1 0 5 5 4 0 1 2 1 11


The most ironic any hypocritical comment by the OP is this, though...

All players have areas they need to work on..We drafted a 7 footer who can't post and can't rebound..But we took a chance..Mudiay seems like an above IQ player and skilled we have lacked at the position since Clyde..We had no problem going all in on a longer shot player than Mudiay..

Rose learned to shoot...Wall is learning shoot..Jimmy Bulter learned to shoot..Tony Parker learned to shoot..If Mudiay had a jumper we wouldn't have a chance to get him.


...because ONLY the players he likes or wanted in the draft have the potential to improve, or so it would seem. He makes broad condemnations of KP, even if they are not true, and glosses over Mudiay's weakness, which have dogged him since HS, by the way.

Mudiay will do this or that to improve, but it would seem that Porzingis will never mature physically or get stronger, and the kid you see now will be all you ever see in the future.


Lot of hatred here...no doubt about it. Where its coming from, I don't know, but it's palpable, and I expect to hear more of it during the season.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
holfresh
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7/17/2015  5:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2015  6:05 PM
blkexec wrote:Fresh...you have my attention now. Sorry I didn't think this thread would take off like this, since my first response on page 1.....But I'll check in more frequently now, so you don't think I'm running. Nobody is disrespecting your view point, in case you think thats the case. Just like you said, you also have to respect others that disagrees with you. Respect is like a two way player.....It goes both ways!

Listen no offense taken..We are all here with a point of view...There is no need for an apology..I really don't take offense to heated debates here though then can get more involved than we like it to..I like the exchanges and try to never take it beyond the topic of discussion..With me, there usually isn't any carryover..We may have a disagreement on this topic and agree on another..So no need to apologize..

meloanyk
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7/17/2015  5:44 PM
Mudiay,KP > Russell. Knicks despite needing a pg didnt pick the best one at #4 but got a solid one at 19 which made the selection of KP over Mudiay understandable. Think Mudiay becomes an All Star but its likely KP does also. LAL is the team that may have the largest regrets taking Russell before Okafor, Pristaps, Mudiay
holfresh
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7/17/2015  6:26 PM
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

It's an open forum.....I will never and can never control what you say, think or write. Freedom of speech. I wasn't trying to come across that way. But I'm a little confused on how Mudiay is an option right now. He was an option...And would've been a good talent to have, but not sure if he WAS a great option for the triangle.

But it's like buying a BMW (which I just bought)....Then a few days later, my neighbor bought a different BMW that looks better and it was within my financial range. There's nothing I can do about it now. Do I stare in the window at him and his car.....Or check that off as a mental note and move on until the next opportunity to buy another car. And by then, I might not even want a BMW anymore.

So again, you can and I'm sure you will say and write about anything you want. I just don't see how Mudiay RIGHT NOW....is an option for us. And I don't see how you or anybody can say based on a few summer league games watching Mudiay in a completely different system, under a different coach with different players, would've been any better than Grant.

Thats my opinion, just like you have yours.

thats the point holfresh... we all argued get this guy or that guy BEFORE the draft. At this point its just sour grapes. Again.. look at the title of the thread.

Is it time to go home yet? Ug... 4:30, where are you?

The point of this thread is that I never saw Mudiay play until now..I'm just saying that if I had the information that the Knick brass had prior to the draft, I'm picking Mudiay...They saw Mudiay play before the draft and knew what he is capable of in a game..Based on what I have seen for the first time, my pick is Mudiay..If I said it three years from now, it carries no weight, it's hindsight..Right now, Mudaiy court awareness is something I have only seen with a few talented players..It's hard for me to pass this kid based on that..

And for me, hoping Porzingis gets stronger I think is just crazy..It's beyond anything I have ever heard..I don't think it possible for someone to gain the strength required to play the post in the NBA when at the start of your career, guards can push you anywhere they want to...For me, that's a big bet and some long odds..

knicks1248
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7/17/2015  6:47 PM
holfresh wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

It's an open forum.....I will never and can never control what you say, think or write. Freedom of speech. I wasn't trying to come across that way. But I'm a little confused on how Mudiay is an option right now. He was an option...And would've been a good talent to have, but not sure if he WAS a great option for the triangle.

But it's like buying a BMW (which I just bought)....Then a few days later, my neighbor bought a different BMW that looks better and it was within my financial range. There's nothing I can do about it now. Do I stare in the window at him and his car.....Or check that off as a mental note and move on until the next opportunity to buy another car. And by then, I might not even want a BMW anymore.

So again, you can and I'm sure you will say and write about anything you want. I just don't see how Mudiay RIGHT NOW....is an option for us. And I don't see how you or anybody can say based on a few summer league games watching Mudiay in a completely different system, under a different coach with different players, would've been any better than Grant.

Thats my opinion, just like you have yours.

thats the point holfresh... we all argued get this guy or that guy BEFORE the draft. At this point its just sour grapes. Again.. look at the title of the thread.

Is it time to go home yet? Ug... 4:30, where are you?

The point of this thread is that I never saw Mudiay play until now..I'm just saying that if I had the information that the Knick brass had prior to the draft, I'm picking Mudiay...They saw Mudiay play before the draft and knew what he is capable of in a game..Based on what I have seen for the first time, my pick is Mudiay..If I said it three years from now, it carries no weight, it's hindsight..Right now, Mudaiy court awareness is something I have only seen with a few talented players..It's hard for me to pass this kid based on that..

And for me, hoping Porzingis gets stronger I think is just crazy..It's beyond anything I have ever heard..I don't think it possible for someone to gain the strength required to play the post in the NBA when at the start of your career, guards can push you anywhere they want to...For me, that's a big bet and some long odds..

Why would phil pick a player like Mudiay, and he's won 11 rings with below avg pg's.. He may be more talented right now, but he by no stretch of the imagination will he be better, and to compare a pg and pf/c is super ridiculous.. you wouldn't compare nash to shaq

ES
holfresh
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7/17/2015  7:23 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

It's an open forum.....I will never and can never control what you say, think or write. Freedom of speech. I wasn't trying to come across that way. But I'm a little confused on how Mudiay is an option right now. He was an option...And would've been a good talent to have, but not sure if he WAS a great option for the triangle.

But it's like buying a BMW (which I just bought)....Then a few days later, my neighbor bought a different BMW that looks better and it was within my financial range. There's nothing I can do about it now. Do I stare in the window at him and his car.....Or check that off as a mental note and move on until the next opportunity to buy another car. And by then, I might not even want a BMW anymore.

So again, you can and I'm sure you will say and write about anything you want. I just don't see how Mudiay RIGHT NOW....is an option for us. And I don't see how you or anybody can say based on a few summer league games watching Mudiay in a completely different system, under a different coach with different players, would've been any better than Grant.

Thats my opinion, just like you have yours.

thats the point holfresh... we all argued get this guy or that guy BEFORE the draft. At this point its just sour grapes. Again.. look at the title of the thread.

Is it time to go home yet? Ug... 4:30, where are you?

The point of this thread is that I never saw Mudiay play until now..I'm just saying that if I had the information that the Knick brass had prior to the draft, I'm picking Mudiay...They saw Mudiay play before the draft and knew what he is capable of in a game..Based on what I have seen for the first time, my pick is Mudiay..If I said it three years from now, it carries no weight, it's hindsight..Right now, Mudaiy court awareness is something I have only seen with a few talented players..It's hard for me to pass this kid based on that..

And for me, hoping Porzingis gets stronger I think is just crazy..It's beyond anything I have ever heard..I don't think it possible for someone to gain the strength required to play the post in the NBA when at the start of your career, guards can push you anywhere they want to...For me, that's a big bet and some long odds..

Why would phil pick a player like Mudiay, and he's won 11 rings with below avg pg's.. He may be more talented right now, but he by no stretch of the imagination will he be better, and to compare a pg and pf/c is super ridiculous.. you wouldn't compare nash to shaq

What baffles me is how do you guys know how much better Prozingis is going to be given that players his age are already ahead of him in development..What tells you that Porzingis will get another gear in development and surpass people of the same age already more skilled than hi despite Porzingis have already been a professional player?

nixluva
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7/17/2015  7:44 PM
holfresh wrote:What baffles me is how do you guys know how much better Prozingis is going to be given that players his age are already ahead of him in development..What tells you that Porzingis will get another gear in development and surpass people of the same age already more skilled than hi despite Porzingis have already been a professional player?

For one thing KP has never lifted weights, which isn't hard to believe. He's going to be put in a situation where he can receive the best training and diet for being able to improve his strength. It's likely that this will be a huge benefit for him over the coming years. I'm sure that the Knicks will look to get him as much instruction as possible given his raw talent and his potential to be a lot better than he is now.

Just imagine how much better he can get when he's stronger and has more skills? He was already showing how much he can impact the game without the needed strength. It doesn't take a huge leap to imagine what he can be given where he is already. Guys like Dirk were just as skinny when they were his age.

holfresh
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7/17/2015  7:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2015  7:57 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:What baffles me is how do you guys know how much better Prozingis is going to be given that players his age are already ahead of him in development..What tells you that Porzingis will get another gear in development and surpass people of the same age already more skilled than hi despite Porzingis have already been a professional player?

For one thing KP has never lifted weights, which isn't hard to believe. He's going to be put in a situation where he can receive the best training and diet for being able to improve his strength. It's likely that this will be a huge benefit for him over the coming years. I'm sure that the Knicks will look to get him as much instruction as possible given his raw talent and his potential to be a lot better than he is now.

Just imagine how much better he can get when he's stronger and has more skills? He was already showing how much he can impact the game without the needed strength. It doesn't take a huge leap to imagine what he can be given where he is already. Guys like Dirk were just as skinny when they were his age.


I work in an industry where one of the mantras are when you are hoping, it's hopeless..Believe what you see..
Bonn1997
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7/17/2015  7:56 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:What baffles me is how do you guys know how much better Prozingis is going to be given that players his age are already ahead of him in development..What tells you that Porzingis will get another gear in development and surpass people of the same age already more skilled than hi despite Porzingis have already been a professional player?

For one thing KP has never lifted weights, which isn't hard to believe. He's going to be put in a situation where he can receive the best training and diet for being able to improve his strength. It's likely that this will be a huge benefit for him over the coming years. I'm sure that the Knicks will look to get him as much instruction as possible given his raw talent and his potential to be a lot better than he is now.

Just imagine how much better he can get when he's stronger and has more skills? He was already showing how much he can impact the game without the needed strength. It doesn't take a huge leap to imagine what he can be given where he is already. Guys like Dirk were just as skinny when they were his age.


You know he's never lifted weights? Did he say that?
dk7th
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7/17/2015  7:58 PM
holfresh wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

It's an open forum.....I will never and can never control what you say, think or write. Freedom of speech. I wasn't trying to come across that way. But I'm a little confused on how Mudiay is an option right now. He was an option...And would've been a good talent to have, but not sure if he WAS a great option for the triangle.

But it's like buying a BMW (which I just bought)....Then a few days later, my neighbor bought a different BMW that looks better and it was within my financial range. There's nothing I can do about it now. Do I stare in the window at him and his car.....Or check that off as a mental note and move on until the next opportunity to buy another car. And by then, I might not even want a BMW anymore.

So again, you can and I'm sure you will say and write about anything you want. I just don't see how Mudiay RIGHT NOW....is an option for us. And I don't see how you or anybody can say based on a few summer league games watching Mudiay in a completely different system, under a different coach with different players, would've been any better than Grant.

Thats my opinion, just like you have yours.

thats the point holfresh... we all argued get this guy or that guy BEFORE the draft. At this point its just sour grapes. Again.. look at the title of the thread.

Is it time to go home yet? Ug... 4:30, where are you?

The point of this thread is that I never saw Mudiay play until now..I'm just saying that if I had the information that the Knick brass had prior to the draft, I'm picking Mudiay...They saw Mudiay play before the draft and knew what he is capable of in a game..Based on what I have seen for the first time, my pick is Mudiay..If I said it three years from now, it carries no weight, it's hindsight..Right now, Mudaiy court awareness is something I have only seen with a few talented players..It's hard for me to pass this kid based on that..

And for me, hoping Porzingis gets stronger I think is just crazy..It's beyond anything I have ever heard..I don't think it possible for someone to gain the strength required to play the post in the NBA when at the start of your career, guards can push you anywhere they want to...For me, that's a big bet and some long odds..

so you are predicting greatness for mudiay based on his summer league performance against summer league competition. cool.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
BigRedDog
Posts: 22195
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7/17/2015  8:04 PM
holfresh wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

It's an open forum.....I will never and can never control what you say, think or write. Freedom of speech. I wasn't trying to come across that way. But I'm a little confused on how Mudiay is an option right now. He was an option...And would've been a good talent to have, but not sure if he WAS a great option for the triangle.

But it's like buying a BMW (which I just bought)....Then a few days later, my neighbor bought a different BMW that looks better and it was within my financial range. There's nothing I can do about it now. Do I stare in the window at him and his car.....Or check that off as a mental note and move on until the next opportunity to buy another car. And by then, I might not even want a BMW anymore.

So again, you can and I'm sure you will say and write about anything you want. I just don't see how Mudiay RIGHT NOW....is an option for us. And I don't see how you or anybody can say based on a few summer league games watching Mudiay in a completely different system, under a different coach with different players, would've been any better than Grant.

Thats my opinion, just like you have yours.

thats the point holfresh... we all argued get this guy or that guy BEFORE the draft. At this point its just sour grapes. Again.. look at the title of the thread.

Is it time to go home yet? Ug... 4:30, where are you?

The point of this thread is that I never saw Mudiay play until now..I'm just saying that if I had the information that the Knick brass had prior to the draft, I'm picking Mudiay...They saw Mudiay play before the draft and knew what he is capable of in a game..Based on what I have seen for the first time, my pick is Mudiay..If I said it three years from now, it carries no weight, it's hindsight..Right now, Mudaiy court awareness is something I have only seen with a few talented players..It's hard for me to pass this kid based on that..

And for me, hoping Porzingis gets stronger I think is just crazy..It's beyond anything I have ever heard..I don't think it possible for someone to gain the strength required to play the post in the NBA when at the start of your career, guards can push you anywhere they want to...For me, that's a big bet and some long odds..

Why would phil pick a player like Mudiay, and he's won 11 rings with below avg pg's.. He may be more talented right now, but he by no stretch of the imagination will he be better, and to compare a pg and pf/c is super ridiculous.. you wouldn't compare nash to shaq

What baffles me is how do you guys know how much better Prozingis is going to be given that players his age are already ahead of him in development..What tells you that Porzingis will get another gear in development and surpass people of the same age already more skilled than hi despite Porzingis have already been a professional player?


That really is so ridiculous. Saying someone is better than another player in your opinion at age 19, therefore he will be better than him at age 23 or even at age 30?. Really so ridiculous. Clyde was just talking about how in his rookie yr he averaged 8pts and then his 2nd yr he averaged 18pts. All you have seen is 5 summer league games. And now you are telling us how the next 10yrs are going to go. Doesnt even make sense to argue because there is no fact behind your statement

fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
dk7th
Posts: 30006
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7/17/2015  8:07 PM
holfresh wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

It's an open forum.....I will never and can never control what you say, think or write. Freedom of speech. I wasn't trying to come across that way. But I'm a little confused on how Mudiay is an option right now. He was an option...And would've been a good talent to have, but not sure if he WAS a great option for the triangle.

But it's like buying a BMW (which I just bought)....Then a few days later, my neighbor bought a different BMW that looks better and it was within my financial range. There's nothing I can do about it now. Do I stare in the window at him and his car.....Or check that off as a mental note and move on until the next opportunity to buy another car. And by then, I might not even want a BMW anymore.

So again, you can and I'm sure you will say and write about anything you want. I just don't see how Mudiay RIGHT NOW....is an option for us. And I don't see how you or anybody can say based on a few summer league games watching Mudiay in a completely different system, under a different coach with different players, would've been any better than Grant.

Thats my opinion, just like you have yours.

thats the point holfresh... we all argued get this guy or that guy BEFORE the draft. At this point its just sour grapes. Again.. look at the title of the thread.

Is it time to go home yet? Ug... 4:30, where are you?

The point of this thread is that I never saw Mudiay play until now..I'm just saying that if I had the information that the Knick brass had prior to the draft, I'm picking Mudiay...They saw Mudiay play before the draft and knew what he is capable of in a game..Based on what I have seen for the first time, my pick is Mudiay..If I said it three years from now, it carries no weight, it's hindsight..Right now, Mudaiy court awareness is something I have only seen with a few talented players..It's hard for me to pass this kid based on that..

And for me, hoping Porzingis gets stronger I think is just crazy..It's beyond anything I have ever heard..I don't think it possible for someone to gain the strength required to play the post in the NBA when at the start of your career, guards can push you anywhere they want to...For me, that's a big bet and some long odds..

Why would phil pick a player like Mudiay, and he's won 11 rings with below avg pg's.. He may be more talented right now, but he by no stretch of the imagination will he be better, and to compare a pg and pf/c is super ridiculous.. you wouldn't compare nash to shaq

What baffles me is how do you guys know how much better Prozingis is going to be given that players his age are already ahead of him in development..What tells you that Porzingis will get another gear in development and surpass people of the same age already more skilled than hi despite Porzingis have already been a professional player?

even if KP turns out to be not as good as mudiay the fact remains that action jackson is instituting system basketball in msg and there is nothing to indicate that mudiay would be able to fit his game to the system, in fact the system may squander his skills. we also need two-way players, and there is no indication that mudiay will become a good defensive player.

by contrast, porzingis has already demonstrated a very good court awareness on defense and seems willing to fit into a system. there is no denying that despite his thinness that he is an athlete who plays basketball.

lastly, your agenda is partially driven by your wish to see melo win a title in new york. phil jackson did not see that happening and is now steering the franchise into a future beyond melo...

as you say, melo got his money so he is already a winner in your world. why aren't you happy?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Bonn1997
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7/17/2015  8:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2015  8:09 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
holfresh wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
fishmike wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:
holfresh wrote:
blkexec wrote:Mudiay is not the first player or last player that will shine from Zinger and Grant's draft class. I'm not understanding the motivation with this thread. We can't have a draft selection for every single player in each draft. So there will be players to slip through the cracks. You cant control what not in your control. It's ok to be a fan of other players.....But there's something about going over board over something that doesn't belong to you. Thats when it becomes an issue.....

So the plan is stick you head in the sand, ignore and don't discuss other options than the ones we made??

Next time I'll re-title the thread..I don't see Mudiay light up summer league...

The title of your thread states: "Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4"

That doesn't sound like a thread about a player lighting up SL. It sounds like that 12 yr old we saw crying after KP was picked. How is mudiay an option right now? This isn't a discussion about other options.....This is a discussion about OPP. "Other Peoples Property"

I'm one of the biggest Mudiay fans here....But it's time to get over it and move on. Wait until he becomes a free agent.....The draft is over! We don't have Towns, Mudiay, WCS, Russell.....We drafted KP and Grant. Now you have two options. Cry the entire season about why Phil didn't pick Mudiay? And while you are at it, replace Mudiays name with all the other draft picks we didn't select in NBA history. The other option is look at the good in the picks we have. You will have less grey hairs with option 2.....

Does it offend you if I have a difference of opinion.Why would u want a forum with homogenous thinking..This place was set up for questions and discussions..It is my right to question whether or not we made the correct choice at the 4th pick..Trying to shame me into group think it a little weak..Most of us have never seen Mudiay play prior to Summer League..Acting like he isn't balling and not examining him as an option for this team is juvenile..

It's an open forum.....I will never and can never control what you say, think or write. Freedom of speech. I wasn't trying to come across that way. But I'm a little confused on how Mudiay is an option right now. He was an option...And would've been a good talent to have, but not sure if he WAS a great option for the triangle.

But it's like buying a BMW (which I just bought)....Then a few days later, my neighbor bought a different BMW that looks better and it was within my financial range. There's nothing I can do about it now. Do I stare in the window at him and his car.....Or check that off as a mental note and move on until the next opportunity to buy another car. And by then, I might not even want a BMW anymore.

So again, you can and I'm sure you will say and write about anything you want. I just don't see how Mudiay RIGHT NOW....is an option for us. And I don't see how you or anybody can say based on a few summer league games watching Mudiay in a completely different system, under a different coach with different players, would've been any better than Grant.

Thats my opinion, just like you have yours.

thats the point holfresh... we all argued get this guy or that guy BEFORE the draft. At this point its just sour grapes. Again.. look at the title of the thread.

Is it time to go home yet? Ug... 4:30, where are you?

The point of this thread is that I never saw Mudiay play until now..I'm just saying that if I had the information that the Knick brass had prior to the draft, I'm picking Mudiay...They saw Mudiay play before the draft and knew what he is capable of in a game..Based on what I have seen for the first time, my pick is Mudiay..If I said it three years from now, it carries no weight, it's hindsight..Right now, Mudaiy court awareness is something I have only seen with a few talented players..It's hard for me to pass this kid based on that..

And for me, hoping Porzingis gets stronger I think is just crazy..It's beyond anything I have ever heard..I don't think it possible for someone to gain the strength required to play the post in the NBA when at the start of your career, guards can push you anywhere they want to...For me, that's a big bet and some long odds..

Why would phil pick a player like Mudiay, and he's won 11 rings with below avg pg's.. He may be more talented right now, but he by no stretch of the imagination will he be better, and to compare a pg and pf/c is super ridiculous.. you wouldn't compare nash to shaq

What baffles me is how do you guys know how much better Prozingis is going to be given that players his age are already ahead of him in development..What tells you that Porzingis will get another gear in development and surpass people of the same age already more skilled than hi despite Porzingis have already been a professional player?


That really is so ridiculous. Saying someone is better than another player in your opinion at age 19, therefore he will be better than him at age 23 or even at age 30?. Really so ridiculous. Clyde was just talking about how in his rookie yr he averaged 8pts and then his 2nd yr he averaged 18pts. All you have seen is 5 summer league games. And now you are telling us how the next 10yrs are going to go. Doesnt even make sense to argue because there is no fact behind your statement


Holfresh asked a question. He didn't say he knew that other players would turn out better.
WaltLongmire
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7/17/2015  8:20 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:What baffles me is how do you guys know how much better Prozingis is going to be given that players his age are already ahead of him in development..What tells you that Porzingis will get another gear in development and surpass people of the same age already more skilled than hi despite Porzingis have already been a professional player?

For one thing KP has never lifted weights, which isn't hard to believe. He's going to be put in a situation where he can receive the best training and diet for being able to improve his strength. It's likely that this will be a huge benefit for him over the coming years. I'm sure that the Knicks will look to get him as much instruction as possible given his raw talent and his potential to be a lot better than he is now.

Just imagine how much better he can get when he's stronger and has more skills? He was already showing how much he can impact the game without the needed strength. It doesn't take a huge leap to imagine what he can be given where he is already. Guys like Dirk were just as skinny when they were his age.


You know he's never lifted weights? Did he say that?

Clyde or the other broadcaster mentioned it out last game. I'll bet Frazier just asked him straight out.

Does he look like a weight lifter?

For some reason the Euros don't lift much...Hezonja also looked a bit thinner than I thought he was, too.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Emmanuel Mudiay was the pick to be made at 4...

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