BRIGGS wrote:WCS is going to be a work in progress. I GUARANTEE he will be a project player.

Like I said, I don't think you get the benefit from picking WCS for a season or two- the main advantage is the cap flexibility he gives us going forward.

My heart says Winslow, my head says maybe WCS

Knicks1969 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Here's his workout video (same series as the Towns and Russell one:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Willie-Cauley-Stein-Workout-Video-and-Interview-5045

If we drafted him, would you go all out for Love/Aldridge or move Melo to PF, and just target Carroll, and keep the space to either absorb a contract for pick, keep the space for next year or fill in the roster with Danny green and Beverley?

WCS is he is very economical as he fills an expensive position cheaply. He's more of a move that may pay off in next years free agency, rather than this season. I wouldn't sign Greg Monroe if we picked him.

The case for Stein is that he is an athletic C and we dont have 1. Youre right he would fill out the position on the cheap. But hes going to need time and I think he struggles mentally in the triangle. Just from watching him he seems very uncertain on offense. It could be a case of bad coaching with Kentucky and a roster that had too much volume on it.

Im really starting to think that. WCS has the feel of a player who comes into the league and people are like where did THAT come from? We never saw that. But Im the first to admit I flop on him. Im just trying to have an open mind.

I've never seen Tyson shoot jumpers as smoothly or as comfortably as Stein did in those videos, or even honestly in games (meaning, I've seen Stein look that comfortable in game situations shooting a few times, too, I think the jumper is a weapon he will have). Stein is a decent passer, too, he just wasn't asked to do it often. But watching those Lyles highlight tapes - Stein is often setting him up, hitting him on cuts to the paint with a good pass.

I keep worrying that passing on Winslow is a major mistake though. That kid just seems like he's got his head screwed on 100% right, a true warrior - which is one thing I can't honestly say I'm as sure of with Stein.

yea.. this is what keeps me waffling. Not so much how I feel about WCS, but rather dismay with not picking the BPA. When I first started watching Duke I thought JW was mostly just eating up OK4s scraps, and often he was. But when OK4 got hurt, was less effective or in foul trouble JW was suddenly the best player in CBB. He truly imposed his will, something I value greatly

I think we need to understand that no matter who we pick we'll be missing out on other players that bring other parts to the team. If we draft WCS we'll miss out on what Mudiay brings as a PG and what Winslow brings as a 2/3 combo with great defense and if we draft Mudiay we'll miss out on having a big man in either WCS that brings defense or a big man like Porzingis that brings his shot blocking or his outside shooting and so on so we need to realize that we can't get everything we need with one pick and hope that Phil and his team have a plan set about who they can get in free agency that will make up for what we'll miss out on with who we draft.

Minnesota like Porzinigs a lot. Forget Karl Towns --hes not coming here. But for pick #4 if we could get Lavine + Muhhamed or Dieng picks 31 and 35--that would fill many more holes than pick 4 by himself.

That is a terrible trade BRIGGS

Zach Lavine by himself is better than anyone we will draft. Lets say Lavine Dieng Picks 31 and 35

Youd be able to pencil in Dieng at C Lavine and Schyeyd in the backcourt and Carmelo at 3-4. You'd have two picks to get a PF and an additional guard. Then 30mm to spend with many less holes.

BRIGGS wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Here's his workout video (same series as the Towns and Russell one:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Willie-Cauley-Stein-Workout-Video-and-Interview-5045

If we drafted him, would you go all out for Love/Aldridge or move Melo to PF, and just target Carroll, and keep the space to either absorb a contract for pick, keep the space for next year or fill in the roster with Danny green and Beverley?

WCS is he is very economical as he fills an expensive position cheaply. He's more of a move that may pay off in next years free agency, rather than this season. I wouldn't sign Greg Monroe if we picked him.

The case for Stein is that he is an athletic C and we dont have 1. Youre right he would fill out the position on the cheap. But hes going to need time and I think he struggles mentally in the triangle. Just from watching him he seems very uncertain on offense. It could be a case of bad coaching with Kentucky and a roster that had too much volume on it.

Im really starting to think that. WCS has the feel of a player who comes into the league and people are like where did THAT come from? We never saw that. But Im the first to admit I flop on him. Im just trying to have an open mind.

I've never seen Tyson shoot jumpers as smoothly or as comfortably as Stein did in those videos, or even honestly in games (meaning, I've seen Stein look that comfortable in game situations shooting a few times, too, I think the jumper is a weapon he will have). Stein is a decent passer, too, he just wasn't asked to do it often. But watching those Lyles highlight tapes - Stein is often setting him up, hitting him on cuts to the paint with a good pass.

I keep worrying that passing on Winslow is a major mistake though. That kid just seems like he's got his head screwed on 100% right, a true warrior - which is one thing I can't honestly say I'm as sure of with Stein.

yea.. this is what keeps me waffling. Not so much how I feel about WCS, but rather dismay with not picking the BPA. When I first started watching Duke I thought JW was mostly just eating up OK4s scraps, and often he was. But when OK4 got hurt, was less effective or in foul trouble JW was suddenly the best player in CBB. He truly imposed his will, something I value greatly

I think we need to understand that no matter who we pick we'll be missing out on other players that bring other parts to the team. If we draft WCS we'll miss out on what Mudiay brings as a PG and what Winslow brings as a 2/3 combo with great defense and if we draft Mudiay we'll miss out on having a big man in either WCS that brings defense or a big man like Porzingis that brings his shot blocking or his outside shooting and so on so we need to realize that we can't get everything we need with one pick and hope that Phil and his team have a plan set about who they can get in free agency that will make up for what we'll miss out on with who we draft.

Minnesota like Porzinigs a lot. Forget Karl Towns --hes not coming here. But for pick #4 if we could get Lavine + Muhhamed or Dieng picks 31 and 35--that would fill many more holes than pick 4 by himself.

That is a terrible trade BRIGGS

Zach Lavine by himself is better than anyone we will draft. Lets say Lavine Dieng Picks 31 and 35

Youd be able to pencil in Dieng at C Lavine and Schyeyd in the backcourt and Carmelo at 3-4. You'd have two picks to get a PF and an additional guard. Then 30mm to spend with many less holes.

Stein is worth the fourth pick and then some. You know I have mad respect for your intellect, but you are wrong about Stein

Knicks1969 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:After watching his workout, Steins shooting form looks pure. No hitch, hesitation or awkwardness in his shot. With his athleticism, size, agility and the possibility that he can hit the pick and pop shot, its almost a no brainer that you have to take this guy at 4. I've been going back and forth between Stein and Winslow at 4, but its stating to look more and more like Stein is a guy you just can't pass up. He can impact the game more than Winslow and the upside appears to be bigger....

I agree with everything - except I think Winslow's upside may be slightly higher... he could be a lot more of a playmaker... though I can't tell if he's a tweener between SF and SG.

But, yeah, I am torn between Stein and Winslow. I wish we could have them both.

Wow could you imagine if we could find a way to come out of this draft with Winslow and WCS?? That would be amazing to have two defensive guys like that at two different positions and add a Melo and a couple other free agents that bring the offense.

Dude, if that were to happen, I would camp around the garden For a chance to kiss Phil's feet

Knicks why do you think Willie Stein got pushed around so much by a 6-5 guy in the biggest game of his life? He played poorly looked unfocused at times and could not do anything well and this was a final 4 game. If you watch him so much--why does his jumpshot in the games look different than what he shows in practice? Is there an NBA star that went 2 points 5 rebounds in a final 4 games as a junior in the history of the sport?

BRIGGS wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:After watching his workout, Steins shooting form looks pure. No hitch, hesitation or awkwardness in his shot. With his athleticism, size, agility and the possibility that he can hit the pick and pop shot, its almost a no brainer that you have to take this guy at 4. I've been going back and forth between Stein and Winslow at 4, but its stating to look more and more like Stein is a guy you just can't pass up. He can impact the game more than Winslow and the upside appears to be bigger....

I agree with everything - except I think Winslow's upside may be slightly higher... he could be a lot more of a playmaker... though I can't tell if he's a tweener between SF and SG.

But, yeah, I am torn between Stein and Winslow. I wish we could have them both.

Wow could you imagine if we could find a way to come out of this draft with Winslow and WCS?? That would be amazing to have two defensive guys like that at two different positions and add a Melo and a couple other free agents that bring the offense.

Dude, if that were to happen, I would camp around the garden For a chance to kiss Phil's feet

Knicks why do you think Willie Stein got pushed around so much by a 6-5 guy in the biggest game of his life? He played poorly looked unfocused at times and could not do anything well and this was a final 4 game. If you watch him so much--why does his jumpshot in the games look different than what he shows in practice? Is there an NBA star that went 2 points 5 rebounds in a final 4 games as a junior in the history of the sport?

It was one game, man!

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Here's his workout video (same series as the Towns and Russell one:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Willie-Cauley-Stein-Workout-Video-and-Interview-5045

If we drafted him, would you go all out for Love/Aldridge or move Melo to PF, and just target Carroll, and keep the space to either absorb a contract for pick, keep the space for next year or fill in the roster with Danny green and Beverley?

WCS is he is very economical as he fills an expensive position cheaply. He's more of a move that may pay off in next years free agency, rather than this season. I wouldn't sign Greg Monroe if we picked him.

The case for Stein is that he is an athletic C and we dont have 1. Youre right he would fill out the position on the cheap. But hes going to need time and I think he struggles mentally in the triangle. Just from watching him he seems very uncertain on offense. It could be a case of bad coaching with Kentucky and a roster that had too much volume on it.

Im really starting to think that. WCS has the feel of a player who comes into the league and people are like where did THAT come from? We never saw that. But Im the first to admit I flop on him. Im just trying to have an open mind.

I've never seen Tyson shoot jumpers as smoothly or as comfortably as Stein did in those videos, or even honestly in games (meaning, I've seen Stein look that comfortable in game situations shooting a few times, too, I think the jumper is a weapon he will have). Stein is a decent passer, too, he just wasn't asked to do it often. But watching those Lyles highlight tapes - Stein is often setting him up, hitting him on cuts to the paint with a good pass.

I keep worrying that passing on Winslow is a major mistake though. That kid just seems like he's got his head screwed on 100% right, a true warrior - which is one thing I can't honestly say I'm as sure of with Stein.

yea.. this is what keeps me waffling. Not so much how I feel about WCS, but rather dismay with not picking the BPA. When I first started watching Duke I thought JW was mostly just eating up OK4s scraps, and often he was. But when OK4 got hurt, was less effective or in foul trouble JW was suddenly the best player in CBB. He truly imposed his will, something I value greatly

I think we need to understand that no matter who we pick we'll be missing out on other players that bring other parts to the team. If we draft WCS we'll miss out on what Mudiay brings as a PG and what Winslow brings as a 2/3 combo with great defense and if we draft Mudiay we'll miss out on having a big man in either WCS that brings defense or a big man like Porzingis that brings his shot blocking or his outside shooting and so on so we need to realize that we can't get everything we need with one pick and hope that Phil and his team have a plan set about who they can get in free agency that will make up for what we'll miss out on with who we draft.

Minnesota like Porzinigs a lot. Forget Karl Towns --hes not coming here. But for pick #4 if we could get Lavine + Muhhamed or Dieng picks 31 and 35--that would fill many more holes than pick 4 by himself.

Towns
Russell
Stein
Winslow

newyorker4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:After watching his workout, Steins shooting form looks pure. No hitch, hesitation or awkwardness in his shot. With his athleticism, size, agility and the possibility that he can hit the pick and pop shot, its almost a no brainer that you have to take this guy at 4. I've been going back and forth between Stein and Winslow at 4, but its stating to look more and more like Stein is a guy you just can't pass up. He can impact the game more than Winslow and the upside appears to be bigger....

I agree with everything - except I think Winslow's upside may be slightly higher... he could be a lot more of a playmaker... though I can't tell if he's a tweener between SF and SG.

But, yeah, I am torn between Stein and Winslow. I wish we could have them both.

Wow could you imagine if we could find a way to come out of this draft with Winslow and WCS?? That would be amazing to have two defensive guys like that at two different positions and add a Melo and a couple other free agents that bring the offense.

While I don't imagine we could swing that exact combo. I do think Phil could find another defensive wing in the draft if he wants to. I think we need to pay attention to the other players Phil brings in. The key for me tho is taking WCS at #4. I don't think he'll last long after that pick if we wanted to trade down. I just don't see the point of messing around. Take the man and let him anchor this team's defense.

The Magic will take him at pick #5 if he's there.

WCS will be a more hot prospect after teams start seeing his offensive ability. That was the only thing really holding him back. After watching him stroke all manner of jump shots he's gonna only rise.

I can only imagine what Phil and his staff feel since they likely saw this in their visits to Kentucky Practices. We didn't know but i'm sure they knew he could do more than he was showing in games. A big part of the problem for Towns and WCS is the offense that Kentucky ran and how many really talented players they had. No one could really shine. Now tho we have less to hold against WCS IMO. I'm not expecting him to be an offensive star but he should be able to be a functional part of the offense rather than a guy you're looking to hide.

Now we are having the WCS vs Kaminsky debate.....And just like above, he will come around.

BRIGGS is just being stuborn right now, and refuse to give in. I'm just glad he's not our GM, or the 4th pick would be Kaminsky.....LOL