RonRon wrote:

mreinman wrote:

RonRon wrote:I think Danny Green and a healthy Wesley Matthews are worth about 7m a year and fit in with the image and system that Phil Jackson is trying to build
We do not have our PG and POST THREAT yet, along with other shooters/defenders that would allow us to execute the system
However, signing HIGH IQ players, shooters to space the floor, and a versatile G/F that is leads the league in blocked shots at the guard position, with the ability to rebound and provide steals, as well, with solid defense, coming from a winning culture/mentality shouldn't be judged soley on the boxscores

Now I wouldn't pay 10m for either of them but grabbing pieces and talent we could utilize in the future is a step by step process and players that FIT are needed
I would also sign a D League shooter like Jarell Eddie and CJ Fair to learn of players like Danny Green....

That was the main reason why I valued Draymond Green from the start and didn't just judge him with the boxscores alone

well of course he and a healthy wes mathews are worth 7 million a year.

Thing is a lot of MAX contracts are just about double that and some about 10m more
While in order to compete for a title you need to have both STARS and SOLID ROLE PLAYERS that FIT in the system that are 2way players, along with a solid bench as well *Clippers is probably the weakest bench I have seen made that has played as well as they have so far in addition to their injury to CP3 and still won impressively*

That is why having draft picks is essential to develop and being able to make trades as well
While at times, you can buy low on cost efficient contracts on continued development players/ D League/ and undrafted players as well...
The trick is how to put them all together on ONE TEAM...

and this is the big test for phil. He has never built a team and we will now see how he does.

I have a bad taste from the carmelo contract and non-adjustment to his playing style, so for me, I will keep an open mind but its already a bit tainted.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:You start by having a foundation in place. Then you add the role players who can fit your system with 2nd round picks and late first rounders.

Most good teams don't overpay role players.

I think Danny Green is better than a role player... but he's also called the Spurs his family and said he loves them and he's never leaving... so, I mean, uh, we could try to sign him? I doubt he'd even fly to NY for a meeting with the team.

The Knicks are going to have a very hard time in FA. Stealing someone like Green from the Spurs will be harder, because he knows what the best organization in sports looks like. Why on earth would he want to come to NY. You don't think teams around the league know the reputation of this team? Players talk. Everyone knows this is a nightmare. See Beno Udrih laughing at the idea Marc Gasol would come here. See JR and Shump smirking to be in Cleveland. Players around the league know this place is a nightmare and most of them aren't leaving their team, especially if it's a good situation, to come to NY.

You're assuming that we'd go after Green 1st. The truth is that we draft 1st and then we sign FA's who actually want to come here for a bigger payday, improved role and more of the spotlight than they may currently have. Players realize how fast things change in the NBA. You basically win with your top 6 players. That means you're never that far away from putting together a solid core roster.

Agents do the actual shopping for their clients new contracts, they are the ones that do the major sell job on a given situation. After Phil talks to the players agents they'll come up with numbers and an overall picture of how they figure into the team for the next few years. These agents already know what the Knicks are willing to pay their clients. A good agent will not just ignore the Knicks if he feels they'll play his client more and that it would mean better endorsements and a bigger role.

The Knicks are going to be on the way up, not down. Don't assume that agents won't be able to see that and relay that to their clients. There are lot of Free Agents looking for a new contract and better situation. Not all of them are in Marc Gasol's situation.

You're making a lot of assumptions. I don't think the league thinks the Knicks are on the way up. I think the league is amused by how crappy of an organization they are and knows the ownership is terrible and thinks the Triangle is antiquated way of playing basketball that may not work in today's league. I think a lot of free agents and their agents will be in wait and see mode on the Knicks. There will be some guys who don't get offers from anywhere else who may come here for money, like Amar'e did.

You may discount how disfunctional this team is - the rest of the league does not. Make no mistake, they have been paying attention. Things like the Isiah Thomas hiring do not reflect well on this organization. We are a laughingstock around the league. Players are not going to come here unless they have no other options. Guys like Beno Udrih, Shumpert, JR Smith, Felton, Chandler, Mike D'Antoni, Mike Woodson... they're all trash talking this organization to other players. This isn't about Phil, or Melo, or Fisher... this is about Dolan and the way the organization is run.

You think players and agents don't respect the difference between Phil and all the other men running this in the past? You are the one who is not seeing things clearly. A few malcontents won't impact how many agents want to steer their players here this summer. They all know the Knicks have cap space and have cleared out the garbage. This team isn't dysfunctional at this time. You're living in the past and Agents will be forward looking at what this team is going to be.

Trust me, Agents are always aware of looking for the best situations for their clients. Danny Green's Agent is Billy Duffy, who is also the agent for Jahlil Okafor. If the Knicks draft Okafor i'm pretty sure Duffy would make it clear to Danny that it could be a good move to go to NY and get his money while playing with a young stud who could draw defenders and give him open shots for the rest of his career.

We're talking about an organization that just re-hired Isiah Thomas and Herb Williams and you're telling me I'm living in the past.

nixluva wrote:I actually don't have a problem with paying a player what he's worth. Phil is looking for at least 2 starters from Free Agency, so he definitely has enough cap space to get that done. Also overpaying doesn't mean that it will bankrupt us either. This is all relative to what the market will bare. Some of us may feel the Knicks are overpaying but that is only their opinion and not what Phil may feel is reasonable. We're not going to max out guys like DeMarre or Danny so I really don't see the concern about what we'll be likely to do in Free Agency. Paying a little more than other teams in order to secure the player we want is not a crime.

nixluva--one thing you need to take into consideration is that many of the good secondary FA come from teams who have massive cap space. We would not be the only team looking at a Demmare Carroll or a Green. 12 teams are going to come out punching and the other 18 will be spending to keep their guys.. There will be one team that offer Demmare Carroll 12-13mm there will be on team that offers Danny Green 10-11mm as teams will know that thye have the competition the pickings are smallish and these contract are coming at a 71% premium. None of these players we are talking about are coming here at 7-8mm were talking 10 MM Minimum and up. Watch what happens.

Phil won't let this opportunity pass if he gets what he wants in the draft. If not then maybe we'll see a different course. It all depends on the lottery.

callmened wrote:nixluva - i agree i hope to get two quality starters via free agency. i just dont think we will. in stead i think well overpay and give max contracts to ehhh players like monroe. i just dont think free agents will want to join a disaster yet. i think after a good draft pick and a yr of improvement back to 500 mark...then players will give it a chance. in the meantime, i think you build with young players via draft...try to find some role players and go from there. again, i HOPE for top tier talent i dont think theyll come the ny

yep. this is pretty much where i am.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:@Nixluva,

I did not say that Danny G won't get opened looks, I said that he won't get nearly the same amount of space that he gets now.

example:

if on the spurs the defender was an average of 4 feet away from him on his shots, do you think that its possible that on the knicks it will be less do to personnel?

I did not say that you need to drive on this team, I say that you need to drive more if you can't get enough very open freebies.

I'm saying that even without great talent the offense was able to give open 3pt shots to players who wanted them. Some of our players were reluctant to take the open 3's. A player like Green will get open looks on a revamped Knicks roster. If THJ could avg. similar 3pt attempts as Danny with less talent on the Knicks, then i'm sure Danny will get quality looks next year with a better starting roster.

Also Danny doesn't have to be a great penetration SG in order to be effective pump faking and driving on defenders charging out to him at the 3pt line. He actually does drive even tho it's not at a high rate. It doesn't mean that Danny couldn't look to drive more if it was required. He's not going to be going one on one showcasing And1 street ball handles. That's not his strength. But he can make simple drives when it's necessary.

Also you keep saying that basically Danny Green has to be wide open in order to hit his 3's but even that isn't really true. Even with a defender near him he can still raise up and shoot it quick.

comparing attempts to THJ is really not relevant. Its how opened those attempts were.

I would guess that SA's 3 point attempt were twice as opened as the knicks attempts were (e.g. the defender was twice as far away)

So basically you are just making something up based on zero evidence? Why not just examine Greens open shots with THJr, Smith, and Shumps? I am sure there is a place that records open shots versus defended.

Bottom line is even if he gets less open shots or if his 3pt% drops he is stil an above average defender at the 2 that can guard 1-3. That alone is valuable.

easy!

I am not making stuff up, I remember seeing data recently that discussed the shots he takes and the space that he has.

He does play great defense.

I did not say that he would not be a good player for us at the right price but I don't expect him to be nearly as efficient as he is/was in SA.

At what cost?

Okay, I see. Anyway, nba.com has some player tracking shot distribution data that shows how guarded players are. It is hard to compare Green with NY's two guard or this season with Melo being in and out. It also, sucks that they only have 2 yrs of player tracking data to go on.

At what cost?:

It probably be between $8-12m,

crzymdups wrote:

callmened wrote:nixluva - i agree i hope to get two quality starters via free agency. i just dont think we will. in stead i think well overpay and give max contracts to ehhh players like monroe. i just dont think free agents will want to join a disaster yet. i think after a good draft pick and a yr of improvement back to 500 mark...then players will give it a chance. in the meantime, i think you build with young players via draft...try to find some role players and go from there. again, i HOPE for top tier talent i dont think theyll come the ny

yep. this is pretty much where i am.

Me, too, at least re: free agency. I like BRIGGS' idea of using our cap space to take on an undesirable contract in order to add first rounders in this draft. 2015/16 is not the year to overspend for high-caliber talent. It's a year to draft well, build a foundation and prepare for future free agency when we have a legitimate yoot core to which we can add the Vets to get us into contention.

Danny Green Should be on a Top Free Agent Priority for the New York Knicks
by William Lee

The San Antonio Spurs and the Los Angeles Clippers had an epic Round One series for the ages. The Spurs lost in heartbreaking fashion and now need to look forward to the future, especially with two out of the “Big Three” heading towards free agency. Tim Duncan at the age 39 and Manu Ginobili who turns 38 this July will have to decide between retirement or giving it another go at the Championship next season.

The decision for the two aging stars to return will be up to the players, but San Antonio does face many more decisions. Key role players such as Danny Green, Marco Belinelli, Jeff Ayres, and Matt Booner are all unrestricted free agents this summer as well.

Green in particular is interesting, and should be a top priority for San Antonio to resign. The New York Knicks should make it a priority to make it as difficult as possible for San Antonio to resign Green. Green though wants to return to the Spurs as per Mike Monroe of San Antonio Express-News.

“It hasn’t sunk in yet, but this is a special group,” “That’s why it sucks so bad, especially for Timmy (Duncan) and Manu (Ginobili). We had an opportunity to do something special for them. All I can do is hope and pray for another group like that in the future, but I have a feeling some of those guys will be back. R.C. and Pop do a great job of bringing in new guys.”

“Hopefully, I’ll be back,” “I love San Antonio. The fans have always supported us, from day one. It sucks that we had such a special group, and things may be changing and not be the same again.”

Green who was born and raised in North Babylon, New York, and is only an hour away from New York City. The Knicks need to make Green one of their top free agent targets and bring Green home. Green would a perfect complimentary player alongside Carmelo Anthony.

Green made $4,025,000 this season and it is very possible that he will make double that amount this upcoming season, especially with the salary cap going up. Green averaged 11.7 points, 4.2 rebounds, and 2 assist per game this season. Green exemplifies the term “3-and-D” player.

It wasn’t too long ago when Green broke the NBA Finals record for most three-pointers made and was headed to being named the MVP of the Finals in 2013…until the Miami Heat made an improbable comeback in Game 6 and won the Championship in Game 7.

61.54% of Green’s shot selections came from beyond the arc this season. Green made the seventh most three-pointers this season per game at 2.4 three-pointers per game for a grand total of 191 three-pointers in the season, which was the eighth most in the league.

The one knock against Green is that he cannot create his own shot, as seen during the Spurs’ collapse in the 2013 NBA Finals. The biggest indication of this is that 64.4% of Green’s shot attempts come after zero dribbles made, as per NBA.com. Another huge indicator that Green does not create his own shot is that 82% of Green’s field goals made this season came assisted by a teammate, as per NBA.com.

The Spurs’ system is a perfect fit for Green, so it is a big question mark to see how Green’s skills translate outside of San Antonio. The Spurs’ system generates 28% wide open shots for Green; which is defined as the closest defender being 6+ feet away, and 34.4% open shots; which is defined as the closest defender being 4-6 feet away, as per NBA.com. With that said I believe New York should still pursue Green hard this upcoming summer despite the questions if New York’s triangle system can generate the same amount of wide open looks for Green to succeed as San Antonio’s system did.

Green is the only guard this season to average more than one block and one steal per game! Who can forget when Green striped LeBron James multiple times in the Finals as James was headed towards the rim on a fast break, going mano e mano with the best freak athlete in the world and winning!

The Knicks and Anthony desperately need a player of Green’s caliber on offense and defense. Green can stretch the floor for Anthony on the offensive end, making a huge liability for opposing teams to leave Green, carving the way for less double-teams on Anthony. On the defensive end, Green can take on the burden of guarding all the quick point guards in the Eastern Conference night to night. New York needs a player to contain the likes of John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Derrick Rose, Kyle Lowry, etc.

In conclusion New York should throw as much money as possible this summer to obtain one of the best glue guys in the game today in Daniel Richard “Danny” Green Jr. Bring the kid home Phil Jackson!