dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Splat wrote:Does anyone at this point need to question what Melo put Denver, NYC and the whole NBA through that season? It was the biggest NBA Melo-drama of all time and completely draining.

DK's point about not honoring his contract is not technically true for two reasons:

1) Melo was no pioneer when it comes to hijacking his team to force a mid-season trade.

2) Legally speaking he honored his contract for the full season wherever he played, Denver or NYC.

but the parts that really matter have little to do with that.

What really mattered in the end is Melo was too damn stupid to realize he was forcing himself into a situation where his new club had to squander its assets to get him.

You could talk about him being greedy and not waiting until free agency and simply taking less or not. I could care less.

But the historical conclusion I think is hard to dispute is Melo screwed himself aside from financial renumeration. He's pretty stupid unless you think he's smart because he got paid.

Is Melo is the stupid one or fans for not realizing this is a business first..That players will always do what is in their best interest first..Like what everyone else does in their own lives...

The owners were telling the players they were going to lock them out and rein in free agency that offseason. They didn't want guys leaving their teams, and colluding like Bosh, Wade and Bron. Melo wanted to leave the nuggets and wanted to negotiate a new deal under the old cba. The Melo should have waited argument means Denver gets nothing for him, and Melo loses 25 mil if he waits. It also assumes that Masaj just sits and waits for Melo to leave while getting no compensation. Melo didn't negotiate what the Knicks gave up for him.

Again, Melo got what he wanted. Money. That's the argument offered. I accept it as the truth. Everybody will draw their own personal conclusions about the rest.

Did the Nuggets and Knicks get what they wanted? I don't think Masaj does that deal if he thinks he can do better or if he thinks keeping Melo is a better option. I also don't think there is anyway Walsh/Dolan allows Melo to end up in NJ. Also, to ignore the labor situation at the time and say it was just about money seems like a pretty simplistic viewpoint.

Denver's front office was smarter than James Dolan. They were casting their fishing nets to haul in the biggest catch. They had a Russian billionaire across the river to help them up the ante.

Denver did their job. I don't care about Denver. I cared about the Knicks.

If they'd allowed Melo to end up in NJ it would have been the greatest blessing ever. Too bad they let vanity intrude on common sense.

And I've ignored nothing. First guys say its about the money and then it is not about the money. What is it about then? The labor situation was not about money? What then? Freedom? It was about the money.

The labor situation was about changing free agency and making it very costly for stars to leave the team that drafted them. You follow this stuff right? Dwill isn't in Dallas because he would've lost 25 mil.

So it is about the money. Got it.

What do you think the nba is about?

it's about the best franchises winning titles with the players who are most willing to sacrifice money and point scoring.

Sure it is. You mean like Kobe and MJ?

TripleThreat wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:Gustav called TripleThreat out in another thread today saying I guess we're lucky you didn't use the N word. I only noticed his Beef with the Blacks in the last week or two... I read a post of his a few days ago and said "damn" but expected someone else to get at it. You know I loves myself some off-topic social commentary, but Jesus.

The NBA would be better if it wasn't for all these pesky low-character Blacks. That's great TripleThreat, thanks for that. Start a thread on it and let's really get at it. But until then, what the **** does NBA Champion coach Doc Rivers' ethnicity have to do with whatever credit he gets, or him sending Woodson out for him in a press conference?

The point of bringing up Doc Rivers is that he has clearly gotten IMHO smug and even more arrogant after the ouster Donald Sterling. Media spin control for the NBA shifted the narrative from "Look at this old racist white guy that WE AS OWNERS TOLERATED FOR DECADES, but now only care about pushing out BECAUSE THE FRANCHISE WILL SELL FOR TWO BILLION, THUS RAISING THE VALUATION OF ALL OF OUR FRANCHISES" to "Look at this hero, this courageous black coach, who galvanized this team, in the face of having it's owner jettisoned and all this controversy. He's the bedrock in this storm"

The liberal media narrative, helped pushed by the NBA's owners and marketing division wants to push that first narrative out the window. The one about free speech and covering things that Mark Cuban discussed ( i.e. the slipperly slope of hammering people for what they say versus what they do in the NBA and if the owners really want to start counting crimes, subtlely referencing DeVos, who kidnapped and raped a woman and was only later made to sell the franchise he had)

My contention is the entire situation gave Doc Rivers an even bigger head, which made him think he was bullet proof and arrogant enough to actually allow Mike Woodson to run the post game press conference, which is typically unusual and nearly unprecedented, merely to take shots at his former team. There was no other reason than pure malice. It's classless and unprofessional. Mike Woodson might have some axes to grind with the Knicks,but the head coach of the Clippers should not be the one to facilitate that.

I have no beef with blacks, and my line of discussion in that regard IMHO is not "off topic social commentary" When Iman Shumpert care more about his rap career than focusing being the best basketball player he can be, that's a problem. If could be drugs, it could be women, it could be gambling, it could be any vice or any activity that takes his attention from being the best ball player he can be. But it's not just Shumpert is it? It's STAT wanting to be a "renaissance man" with his wine baths. It's Melo wanting to be some kind of business mogul like Jay Z. Are we going to kid ourselves that it's an issue mostly with young black pro athletes who want to be some kind of cultural "icon" instead of just focusing on being the best ball player that they can be? Sorry, I'm just not going to ride the politically correct train here and try to say that Jimmer Fredette is just as likely to not work on his skill set because he wants to host a film festival or start his own line of cologne. It's clearly a problem with many of the modern black pro athletes and it's a problem that will tend to root from the general issues of the American black culture. Call me or anyone else anything you want but that potential problem, as it stands for the Knicks or any pro sports franchise in America, is not going away anytime soon. And as a large market with branding and mass media and other entertainment niche opportunities, the Knicks face a far more concerted risk to this except for a select few other franchises like the Lakers.

And I wasn't the only one to say it. Charles Barkley came out after The Decision and after LeBron James claimed that the backlash was about racism and handed James his hat over it, pointing out he believed that it wasn't that James was black, but that most of the general public believed what James did was classless and unnecessary. Until Barkley came out later and essentially said the network no longer wanted him to discuss LBJ. During the last draft, when Bill Simmons actually uttered the phrase "The Decision", his mic was cut off and the broadcast went to commercial.

If you think a mostly white sports media and their bosses and editors and producers, most of which are probably also white, aren't thinking about how sensitive they should be or not regarding criticism of black athletes, then IMHO, think again. Think hard again. Because I'm not saying anything that is reinventing the wheel here, I'm just pointing out things that I feel are fairly obvious in the liberal media.

To answer your question, if Doc Rivers was white, the sports media, under the behest of the NBA, couldn't prop up him to be the hero of the 'narrative' in the Donald Sterling saga, one where owners want to distance themselves from why they DID NOTHING ABOUT STERLING for decades until it became profitable. Then again, if Rivers was white, it would surely lead to more questions about when Chris Paul, before he signed that fat extension to play for said Sterling the Racist, that he'd simply prefer to play for a black coach instead of a white one. But hey, let's not ride that angle right? Or do you think Bill Simmons producers and editors and ESPN brass didn't talk to Simmons about the potential racial implications of his feud with Rivers over leaving Boston amidst conflicting statements, only to see Simmons basically start licking Rivers bootheels in the Sterling saga?

Are we just going to sit here and pretend when Jason Sehorn was the last white starting cornerback in the NFL since .. forever.. that when black cornerbacks and were interviewed, that when they said, "Hey he's actually pretty good" that we are supposed to just ignore that they really meant "He's pretty good...for a white guy" Imaging if Sehorn said that about any black quarterback? I'm always amused by the contingent who is ok with socially acceptable "racism" flipping one way, but never the other. In that regard, "Thanks for that" as well.

My contention is if Doc Rivers was white, he wouldn't have gotten so much press juice as some kind of franchise hero when he just happened to be mercenary coach who lied about all the promises he made to the Celtic fanbase as was in the right place and right time to feel bullet proof enough to throw his assistant coach out there to hatchet job his former team.

No NBA head coach should let his assistant have a "drop the mic" moment just for grinding an ax over getting fired the year before from another franchise. It's classless.

But it's not just Shumpert is it? It's STAT wanting to be a "renaissance man" with his wine baths. It's Melo wanting to be some kind of business mogul like Jay Z. Are we going to kid ourselves that it's an issue mostly with young black pro athletes who want to be some kind of cultural "icon" instead of just focusing on being the best ball player that they can be? Sorry, I'm just not going to ride the politically correct train here and try to say that Jimmer Fredette is just as likely to not work on his skill set because he wants to host a film festival or start his own line of cologne. It's clearly a problem with many of the modern black pro athletes and it's a problem that will tend to root from the general issues of the American black culture.

TeamBall wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:Gustav called TripleThreat out in another thread today saying I guess we're lucky you didn't use the N word. I only noticed his Beef with the Blacks in the last week or two... I read a post of his a few days ago and said "damn" but expected someone else to get at it. You know I loves myself some off-topic social commentary, but Jesus.

The NBA would be better if it wasn't for all these pesky low-character Blacks. That's great TripleThreat, thanks for that. Start a thread on it and let's really get at it. But until then, what the **** does NBA Champion coach Doc Rivers' ethnicity have to do with whatever credit he gets, or him sending Woodson out for him in a press conference?

The point of bringing up Doc Rivers is that he has clearly gotten IMHO smug and even more arrogant after the ouster Donald Sterling. Media spin control for the NBA shifted the narrative from "Look at this old racist white guy that WE AS OWNERS TOLERATED FOR DECADES, but now only care about pushing out BECAUSE THE FRANCHISE WILL SELL FOR TWO BILLION, THUS RAISING THE VALUATION OF ALL OF OUR FRANCHISES" to "Look at this hero, this courageous black coach, who galvanized this team, in the face of having it's owner jettisoned and all this controversy. He's the bedrock in this storm"

The liberal media narrative, helped pushed by the NBA's owners and marketing division wants to push that first narrative out the window. The one about free speech and covering things that Mark Cuban discussed ( i.e. the slipperly slope of hammering people for what they say versus what they do in the NBA and if the owners really want to start counting crimes, subtlely referencing DeVos, who kidnapped and raped a woman and was only later made to sell the franchise he had)

My contention is the entire situation gave Doc Rivers an even bigger head, which made him think he was bullet proof and arrogant enough to actually allow Mike Woodson to run the post game press conference, which is typically unusual and nearly unprecedented, merely to take shots at his former team. There was no other reason than pure malice. It's classless and unprofessional. Mike Woodson might have some axes to grind with the Knicks,but the head coach of the Clippers should not be the one to facilitate that.

I have no beef with blacks, and my line of discussion in that regard IMHO is not "off topic social commentary" When Iman Shumpert care more about his rap career than focusing being the best basketball player he can be, that's a problem. If could be drugs, it could be women, it could be gambling, it could be any vice or any activity that takes his attention from being the best ball player he can be. But it's not just Shumpert is it? It's STAT wanting to be a "renaissance man" with his wine baths. It's Melo wanting to be some kind of business mogul like Jay Z. Are we going to kid ourselves that it's an issue mostly with young black pro athletes who want to be some kind of cultural "icon" instead of just focusing on being the best ball player that they can be? Sorry, I'm just not going to ride the politically correct train here and try to say that Jimmer Fredette is just as likely to not work on his skill set because he wants to host a film festival or start his own line of cologne. It's clearly a problem with many of the modern black pro athletes and it's a problem that will tend to root from the general issues of the American black culture. Call me or anyone else anything you want but that potential problem, as it stands for the Knicks or any pro sports franchise in America, is not going away anytime soon. And as a large market with branding and mass media and other entertainment niche opportunities, the Knicks face a far more concerted risk to this except for a select few other franchises like the Lakers.

And I wasn't the only one to say it. Charles Barkley came out after The Decision and after LeBron James claimed that the backlash was about racism and handed James his hat over it, pointing out he believed that it wasn't that James was black, but that most of the general public believed what James did was classless and unnecessary. Until Barkley came out later and essentially said the network no longer wanted him to discuss LBJ. During the last draft, when Bill Simmons actually uttered the phrase "The Decision", his mic was cut off and the broadcast went to commercial.

If you think a mostly white sports media and their bosses and editors and producers, most of which are probably also white, aren't thinking about how sensitive they should be or not regarding criticism of black athletes, then IMHO, think again. Think hard again. Because I'm not saying anything that is reinventing the wheel here, I'm just pointing out things that I feel are fairly obvious in the liberal media.

To answer your question, if Doc Rivers was white, the sports media, under the behest of the NBA, couldn't prop up him to be the hero of the 'narrative' in the Donald Sterling saga, one where owners want to distance themselves from why they DID NOTHING ABOUT STERLING for decades until it became profitable. Then again, if Rivers was white, it would surely lead to more questions about when Chris Paul, before he signed that fat extension to play for said Sterling the Racist, that he'd simply prefer to play for a black coach instead of a white one. But hey, let's not ride that angle right? Or do you think Bill Simmons producers and editors and ESPN brass didn't talk to Simmons about the potential racial implications of his feud with Rivers over leaving Boston amidst conflicting statements, only to see Simmons basically start licking Rivers bootheels in the Sterling saga?

Are we just going to sit here and pretend when Jason Sehorn was the last white starting cornerback in the NFL since .. forever.. that when black cornerbacks and were interviewed, that when they said, "Hey he's actually pretty good" that we are supposed to just ignore that they really meant "He's pretty good...for a white guy" Imaging if Sehorn said that about any black quarterback? I'm always amused by the contingent who is ok with socially acceptable "racism" flipping one way, but never the other. In that regard, "Thanks for that" as well.

My contention is if Doc Rivers was white, he wouldn't have gotten so much press juice as some kind of franchise hero when he just happened to be mercenary coach who lied about all the promises he made to the Celtic fanbase as was in the right place and right time to feel bullet proof enough to throw his assistant coach out there to hatchet job his former team.

No NBA head coach should let his assistant have a "drop the mic" moment just for grinding an ax over getting fired the year before from another franchise. It's classless.

God, I was unaware you had gone on another "what's wrong with young black kids?" rant Mr. Cosby.

But it's not just Shumpert is it? It's STAT wanting to be a "renaissance man" with his wine baths. It's Melo wanting to be some kind of business mogul like Jay Z. Are we going to kid ourselves that it's an issue mostly with young black pro athletes who want to be some kind of cultural "icon" instead of just focusing on being the best ball player that they can be? Sorry, I'm just not going to ride the politically correct train here and try to say that Jimmer Fredette is just as likely to not work on his skill set because he wants to host a film festival or start his own line of cologne. It's clearly a problem with many of the modern black pro athletes and it's a problem that will tend to root from the general issues of the American black culture.

Since when is having multiple interests a problem? Oh but wait...you didn't criticize Steve Nash for playing soccer in the off season or Landry Fields for doing those weird appearances dressed as Nicki Minaj. So multiple interest are only wrong when "modern black pro athletes" are involved?

Triple, I really can't argue with a lot of your opinions above, simply because I don't have cable TV, and in some respects a relatively "low-information" sports fan. Another way to put it is that I miss a LOT of bull****. That's why I'm on UK!

So while I read and heard about the Sterling affair in the papers, on the radio, on TMZ etc., at the time, I don't have any basis to agree or disagree with the continued storyline of the Clippers with Doc being coddled or whatever. Because I don't know the current storylines. Hence my jab about the NBA being the WWF.

I don't listen to Simmons because of his accent. I barely remember the racial aspects of the Decision, but as for me I cursed out Pat Riley at the 40/40 Club after BronBron said "South Beach" and pretty much left the story there. I also don't know crap about football outside the broadest of strokes.

I do however know something about being Black in America. I know it's often a damned if you do, damned if you don't rock in the hard place sort of position. I'm getting into middle age so I can shake my cane with the best of them these days. I don't listen to music on the radio anymore. I live in NYC and get the urge to shake these kids out here of all races like I'm Larry Fishburne in School Daze to WAKE UP.

So yea, black folks got issues. Great. We're human (at least we are considered so nowadays by most). I'm on this forum sometimes to not be reminded of that probably, to blow off steam after some ****ery I just saw on the J train or whatever. But I had to call out what looks like something you are somewhat obsessed with. So start a thread and we can get into it with links and facts and anecdotes and jokes... because we are going to need all of that to probably even scrape the surface.

But America as a whole has issues too, man. So parsing Black people off like we're something entirely different is some bull****. Hell, we are just the part of America with its dirty business out in the streets (literally, figuratively) that makes it easier to point a finger at us, instead of all the dirt hidden up in some board room, cul-de-sac or underground bunker.

I'll leave it at this: have you ever met a white person with the last name Washington or Jefferson? If you have, you would be the first person I know who has. And they talk about Black men being deadbeat dads. Maybe we learned from the dudes on our money.

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.

Totally disagree with the pleasing melo statement. I think he saw a guy that was paid a ton to be a leader with a championship pedigree that gave up on his team and tried to sabotage his coach. I think Phil was telling the truth when he said he wanted guys with character. Look at the guys that have been moved out. None of them other than Pablo can be characterized as high character guys.

you have it upside down and backwards again.

melo is a low character guy which is why dolan can tolerate him, in fact more than tolerate. dolan cannot tolerate superior men to himself and he finds a way of alienating them or sending them away. walsh comes to mind, and he didn't get more than a couple of million to do the job he did. but of course we must remember that stern virtually mandated that dolan hire walsh. it's because dolan is a malignant narcissist who likes to break stuff but has enough money to try and cover up his mess.

jackson's legacy will be tarnished for a tidy 60 million dollar sum before this escapade is over.

Could you expand upon this??...Site examples??..I say this because I know you are down on Melo for not lying to the Nuggets..You applauded LeBron deceitful exit from Cleveland..Please explain..

for the record i have said many times that lebron colluded with wade-- another guy whose character i have issues with-- and bosh. what he did was shytti and unethical, especially when you think about what it meant to the knicks and other suitors.

but you know what else he did? he honored his ****ing contract! now i ask you-- did melo, for all his "honesty," did melo honor his contract?

deceit in order to win on the one hand and on the other hand greed at the expense of winning.

This should be a good one..How did Melo not honor his contract??..By telling them he won't resign after his contract it up??

he forced his way here. he himself admitted it 2.5 years later. there were several quotes from the aftermath of that period of how difficult it was for denver as a team... so basically he screwed the team he was playing for AS he was playing for them. so yeah-- melo did not honor his contract in both directions.

I don't follow, how is that not honoring your contract??.Is there a clause in the contract that says you have to resign with the team that you are traded to??..Or he is not allow to choose his destination?..They could have done what Minny did with Love..

i didn't say he breached his contract but he did not honor the contract. it's the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. he became a distraction to the team that was paying him to perform his duties.

splat in the above post says melo was stupid. i also say stupid and add selfish and greedy.

he could have kept his mouth shut and become a free agent after that season, no matter where he mat have been traded by the nuggets before the end of that season. if the nuggets could not bear that stance that is on them. as it is he facilitated the exit by forcing his way to the knicks instead of doing the ethical thing which was to honor his contract until the nuggets themselves had to make a hard decision.

why help the team you are with instead of the team you want to end up going to, by trade or free agency?

anyway, you win hofresh. melo is a knick and will remain a knick for the forseeable future. i know that makes you happy, not only that he is being paid 25 million per season but that he is in the orange and blue. start up the marching band:

But you are asking him to do something that you would not do..Would you risk losing 25 mil if you can help it dk7??..Just like you can't blame Lin for taking the money in Houston...Free Agents resign with the own teams because of the extra year means extra money..Doesn't make them low character people..

you understand the concept of orders of magnitude, powers of ten, exponents? at what point do you stop "feeling" the money? at 1 million? certainly not. how about 10 million. that's actually still an amount most of us could "feel."

but this guy is going to make over 150 million before he retires and he won't even be 40 years old.

so to answer your question, i would risk making less money. i'd rather have the best opportunity to win a title in new york, to have the chance to have my name mentioned in the same breath as walt frazier, derek jeter, eli manning, mark messier, joe dimaggio.

that'd be something i could "feel" every day the rest of my days.

Money first, title second, you and I both know there isn't too many athletes (if any at all) that will sacrifice money for a title smack dead in the prime of their careers. That doesn't start happening until the tail end of their prime, It's just too risky, injuries happen. Look what happen to steph curry, he had to take a low ball extension because his ankle injury force him to miss 40+ games over 2 seasons.

So when you say you would have taken less money, you would be on of the FEW. Patrick and Houston didn't take less money, why are they different from melo

The irony in all this is that dk7 owns a business..

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Splat wrote:Does anyone at this point need to question what Melo put Denver, NYC and the whole NBA through that season? It was the biggest NBA Melo-drama of all time and completely draining.

DK's point about not honoring his contract is not technically true for two reasons:

1) Melo was no pioneer when it comes to hijacking his team to force a mid-season trade.

2) Legally speaking he honored his contract for the full season wherever he played, Denver or NYC.

but the parts that really matter have little to do with that.

What really mattered in the end is Melo was too damn stupid to realize he was forcing himself into a situation where his new club had to squander its assets to get him.

You could talk about him being greedy and not waiting until free agency and simply taking less or not. I could care less.

But the historical conclusion I think is hard to dispute is Melo screwed himself aside from financial renumeration. He's pretty stupid unless you think he's smart because he got paid.

Is Melo is the stupid one or fans for not realizing this is a business first..That players will always do what is in their best interest first..Like what everyone else does in their own lives...

The owners were telling the players they were going to lock them out and rein in free agency that offseason. They didn't want guys leaving their teams, and colluding like Bosh, Wade and Bron. Melo wanted to leave the nuggets and wanted to negotiate a new deal under the old cba. The Melo should have waited argument means Denver gets nothing for him, and Melo loses 25 mil if he waits. It also assumes that Masaj just sits and waits for Melo to leave while getting no compensation. Melo didn't negotiate what the Knicks gave up for him.

Again, Melo got what he wanted. Money. That's the argument offered. I accept it as the truth. Everybody will draw their own personal conclusions about the rest.

Did the Nuggets and Knicks get what they wanted? I don't think Masaj does that deal if he thinks he can do better or if he thinks keeping Melo is a better option. I also don't think there is anyway Walsh/Dolan allows Melo to end up in NJ. Also, to ignore the labor situation at the time and say it was just about money seems like a pretty simplistic viewpoint.

Denver's front office was smarter than James Dolan. They were casting their fishing nets to haul in the biggest catch. They had a Russian billionaire across the river to help them up the ante.

Denver did their job. I don't care about Denver. I cared about the Knicks.

If they'd allowed Melo to end up in NJ it would have been the greatest blessing ever. Too bad they let vanity intrude on common sense.

And I've ignored nothing. First guys say its about the money and then it is not about the money. What is it about then? The labor situation was not about money? What then? Freedom? It was about the money.

The labor situation was about changing free agency and making it very costly for stars to leave the team that drafted them. You follow this stuff right? Dwill isn't in Dallas because he would've lost 25 mil.

So it is about the money. Got it.

What do you think the nba is about?

it's about the best franchises winning titles with the players who are most willing to sacrifice money and point scoring.

The last four nba champions have come from the two states in the nba that do not have a state income tax.

do your homework. the best players on those teams all took less money in order to allow their employers to bring in higher-quality players. all sacrificed on the floor and in the pocketbook. nobody in new york has done that in almost twenty years. maybe some dots can be connected here.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Splat wrote:Does anyone at this point need to question what Melo put Denver, NYC and the whole NBA through that season? It was the biggest NBA Melo-drama of all time and completely draining.

DK's point about not honoring his contract is not technically true for two reasons:

1) Melo was no pioneer when it comes to hijacking his team to force a mid-season trade.

2) Legally speaking he honored his contract for the full season wherever he played, Denver or NYC.

but the parts that really matter have little to do with that.

What really mattered in the end is Melo was too damn stupid to realize he was forcing himself into a situation where his new club had to squander its assets to get him.

You could talk about him being greedy and not waiting until free agency and simply taking less or not. I could care less.

But the historical conclusion I think is hard to dispute is Melo screwed himself aside from financial renumeration. He's pretty stupid unless you think he's smart because he got paid.

Is Melo is the stupid one or fans for not realizing this is a business first..That players will always do what is in their best interest first..Like what everyone else does in their own lives...

The owners were telling the players they were going to lock them out and rein in free agency that offseason. They didn't want guys leaving their teams, and colluding like Bosh, Wade and Bron. Melo wanted to leave the nuggets and wanted to negotiate a new deal under the old cba. The Melo should have waited argument means Denver gets nothing for him, and Melo loses 25 mil if he waits. It also assumes that Masaj just sits and waits for Melo to leave while getting no compensation. Melo didn't negotiate what the Knicks gave up for him.

Again, Melo got what he wanted. Money. That's the argument offered. I accept it as the truth. Everybody will draw their own personal conclusions about the rest.

Did the Nuggets and Knicks get what they wanted? I don't think Masaj does that deal if he thinks he can do better or if he thinks keeping Melo is a better option. I also don't think there is anyway Walsh/Dolan allows Melo to end up in NJ. Also, to ignore the labor situation at the time and say it was just about money seems like a pretty simplistic viewpoint.

Denver's front office was smarter than James Dolan. They were casting their fishing nets to haul in the biggest catch. They had a Russian billionaire across the river to help them up the ante.

Denver did their job. I don't care about Denver. I cared about the Knicks.

If they'd allowed Melo to end up in NJ it would have been the greatest blessing ever. Too bad they let vanity intrude on common sense.

And I've ignored nothing. First guys say its about the money and then it is not about the money. What is it about then? The labor situation was not about money? What then? Freedom? It was about the money.

The labor situation was about changing free agency and making it very costly for stars to leave the team that drafted them. You follow this stuff right? Dwill isn't in Dallas because he would've lost 25 mil.

So it is about the money. Got it.

What do you think the nba is about?

it's about the best franchises winning titles with the players who are most willing to sacrifice money and point scoring.

The last four nba champions have come from the two states in the nba that do not have a state income tax.

do your homework. the best players on those teams all took less money in order to allow their employers to bring in higher-quality players. all sacrificed on the floor and in the pocketbook. nobody in new york has done that in almost twenty years. maybe some dots can be connected here.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.

Totally disagree with the pleasing melo statement. I think he saw a guy that was paid a ton to be a leader with a championship pedigree that gave up on his team and tried to sabotage his coach. I think Phil was telling the truth when he said he wanted guys with character. Look at the guys that have been moved out. None of them other than Pablo can be characterized as high character guys.

you have it upside down and backwards again.

melo is a low character guy which is why dolan can tolerate him, in fact more than tolerate. dolan cannot tolerate superior men to himself and he finds a way of alienating them or sending them away. walsh comes to mind, and he didn't get more than a couple of million to do the job he did. but of course we must remember that stern virtually mandated that dolan hire walsh. it's because dolan is a malignant narcissist who likes to break stuff but has enough money to try and cover up his mess.

jackson's legacy will be tarnished for a tidy 60 million dollar sum before this escapade is over.

Could you expand upon this??...Site examples??..I say this because I know you are down on Melo for not lying to the Nuggets..You applauded LeBron deceitful exit from Cleveland..Please explain..

for the record i have said many times that lebron colluded with wade-- another guy whose character i have issues with-- and bosh. what he did was shytti and unethical, especially when you think about what it meant to the knicks and other suitors.

but you know what else he did? he honored his ****ing contract! now i ask you-- did melo, for all his "honesty," did melo honor his contract?

deceit in order to win on the one hand and on the other hand greed at the expense of winning.

This should be a good one..How did Melo not honor his contract??..By telling them he won't resign after his contract it up??

he forced his way here. he himself admitted it 2.5 years later. there were several quotes from the aftermath of that period of how difficult it was for denver as a team... so basically he screwed the team he was playing for AS he was playing for them. so yeah-- melo did not honor his contract in both directions.

I don't follow, how is that not honoring your contract??.Is there a clause in the contract that says you have to resign with the team that you are traded to??..Or he is not allow to choose his destination?..They could have done what Minny did with Love..

i didn't say he breached his contract but he did not honor the contract. it's the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. he became a distraction to the team that was paying him to perform his duties.

splat in the above post says melo was stupid. i also say stupid and add selfish and greedy.

he could have kept his mouth shut and become a free agent after that season, no matter where he mat have been traded by the nuggets before the end of that season. if the nuggets could not bear that stance that is on them. as it is he facilitated the exit by forcing his way to the knicks instead of doing the ethical thing which was to honor his contract until the nuggets themselves had to make a hard decision.

why help the team you are with instead of the team you want to end up going to, by trade or free agency?

anyway, you win hofresh. melo is a knick and will remain a knick for the forseeable future. i know that makes you happy, not only that he is being paid 25 million per season but that he is in the orange and blue. start up the marching band:

But you are asking him to do something that you would not do..Would you risk losing 25 mil if you can help it dk7??..Just like you can't blame Lin for taking the money in Houston...Free Agents resign with the own teams because of the extra year means extra money..Doesn't make them low character people..

you understand the concept of orders of magnitude, powers of ten, exponents? at what point do you stop "feeling" the money? at 1 million? certainly not. how about 10 million. that's actually still an amount most of us could "feel."

but this guy is going to make over 150 million before he retires and he won't even be 40 years old.

so to answer your question, i would risk making less money. i'd rather have the best opportunity to win a title in new york, to have the chance to have my name mentioned in the same breath as walt frazier, derek jeter, eli manning, mark messier, joe dimaggio.

that'd be something i could "feel" every day the rest of my days.

Money first, title second, you and I both know there isn't too many athletes (if any at all) that will sacrifice money for a title smack dead in the prime of their careers. That doesn't start happening until the tail end of their prime, It's just too risky, injuries happen. Look what happen to steph curry, he had to take a low ball extension because his ankle injury force him to miss 40+ games over 2 seasons.

So when you say you would have taken less money, you would be on of the FEW. Patrick and Houston didn't take less money, why are they different from melo

The irony in all this is that dk7 owns a business..

i pay my people a fair salary and i make it my business to create a healthy work culture. i hire people with the understanding that i have permission to mold them, and i screen them carefully. if they are not moldable or do not agree to be molded then i do not hire them. this is no different from coaching in my opinion, and in fact the team sport/military model works for me.

could any of the make more money elsewhere? maybe, but then they run the risk of lowering their quality of life. when there is strong leadership at the ownership level, and to a lesser extent the management level, a thriving situation can occur.

you see these principles manifested when comparing the spurs with the knicks.

nothing ironic about this.

U hire people with the permission to mold them???..What are u running a cult??

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.

Totally disagree with the pleasing melo statement. I think he saw a guy that was paid a ton to be a leader with a championship pedigree that gave up on his team and tried to sabotage his coach. I think Phil was telling the truth when he said he wanted guys with character. Look at the guys that have been moved out. None of them other than Pablo can be characterized as high character guys.

you have it upside down and backwards again.

melo is a low character guy which is why dolan can tolerate him, in fact more than tolerate. dolan cannot tolerate superior men to himself and he finds a way of alienating them or sending them away. walsh comes to mind, and he didn't get more than a couple of million to do the job he did. but of course we must remember that stern virtually mandated that dolan hire walsh. it's because dolan is a malignant narcissist who likes to break stuff but has enough money to try and cover up his mess.

jackson's legacy will be tarnished for a tidy 60 million dollar sum before this escapade is over.

Could you expand upon this??...Site examples??..I say this because I know you are down on Melo for not lying to the Nuggets..You applauded LeBron deceitful exit from Cleveland..Please explain..

for the record i have said many times that lebron colluded with wade-- another guy whose character i have issues with-- and bosh. what he did was shytti and unethical, especially when you think about what it meant to the knicks and other suitors.

but you know what else he did? he honored his ****ing contract! now i ask you-- did melo, for all his "honesty," did melo honor his contract?

deceit in order to win on the one hand and on the other hand greed at the expense of winning.

This should be a good one..How did Melo not honor his contract??..By telling them he won't resign after his contract it up??

he forced his way here. he himself admitted it 2.5 years later. there were several quotes from the aftermath of that period of how difficult it was for denver as a team... so basically he screwed the team he was playing for AS he was playing for them. so yeah-- melo did not honor his contract in both directions.

I don't follow, how is that not honoring your contract??.Is there a clause in the contract that says you have to resign with the team that you are traded to??..Or he is not allow to choose his destination?..They could have done what Minny did with Love..

i didn't say he breached his contract but he did not honor the contract. it's the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. he became a distraction to the team that was paying him to perform his duties.

splat in the above post says melo was stupid. i also say stupid and add selfish and greedy.

he could have kept his mouth shut and become a free agent after that season, no matter where he mat have been traded by the nuggets before the end of that season. if the nuggets could not bear that stance that is on them. as it is he facilitated the exit by forcing his way to the knicks instead of doing the ethical thing which was to honor his contract until the nuggets themselves had to make a hard decision.

why help the team you are with instead of the team you want to end up going to, by trade or free agency?

anyway, you win hofresh. melo is a knick and will remain a knick for the forseeable future. i know that makes you happy, not only that he is being paid 25 million per season but that he is in the orange and blue. start up the marching band:

But you are asking him to do something that you would not do..Would you risk losing 25 mil if you can help it dk7??..Just like you can't blame Lin for taking the money in Houston...Free Agents resign with the own teams because of the extra year means extra money..Doesn't make them low character people..

you understand the concept of orders of magnitude, powers of ten, exponents? at what point do you stop "feeling" the money? at 1 million? certainly not. how about 10 million. that's actually still an amount most of us could "feel."

but this guy is going to make over 150 million before he retires and he won't even be 40 years old.

so to answer your question, i would risk making less money. i'd rather have the best opportunity to win a title in new york, to have the chance to have my name mentioned in the same breath as walt frazier, derek jeter, eli manning, mark messier, joe dimaggio.

that'd be something i could "feel" every day the rest of my days.

Money first, title second, you and I both know there isn't too many athletes (if any at all) that will sacrifice money for a title smack dead in the prime of their careers. That doesn't start happening until the tail end of their prime, It's just too risky, injuries happen. Look what happen to steph curry, he had to take a low ball extension because his ankle injury force him to miss 40+ games over 2 seasons.

So when you say you would have taken less money, you would be on of the FEW. Patrick and Houston didn't take less money, why are they different from melo

The irony in all this is that dk7 owns a business..

i pay my people a fair salary and i make it my business to create a healthy work culture. i hire people with the understanding that i have permission to mold them, and i screen them carefully. if they are not moldable or do not agree to be molded then i do not hire them. this is no different from coaching in my opinion, and in fact the team sport/military model works for me.

could any of the make more money elsewhere? maybe, but then they run the risk of lowering their quality of life. when there is strong leadership at the ownership level, and to a lesser extent the management level, a thriving situation can occur.

you see these principles manifested when comparing the spurs with the knicks.

nothing ironic about this.

Interesting. I thought you posted something about having an accident as a bike messenger or maybe it was just a bike accident. Anyway, good luck with your endeavors.

no i used to ride a bike everywhere in the city but i had my share of bike accidents, the second to last in 2007 required major shoulder reconstruction-- so i know about shoulder issues and 5 months of rehab-- and the last was a severe double-compound fracture due to avoiding hitting a child who had run out into the bike lane unattended by his family. that injury required 15 screws and 100 stitches, as well as 16 months of recuperation.

guess how many days of work i missed....

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:None of this explains why We rushed to trade Tyson. Unless Phil is really that stupid. I don't think he is I think it's a lot more plausible that he did it to please dolan and Melo and get Melo signed.

Totally disagree with the pleasing melo statement. I think he saw a guy that was paid a ton to be a leader with a championship pedigree that gave up on his team and tried to sabotage his coach. I think Phil was telling the truth when he said he wanted guys with character. Look at the guys that have been moved out. None of them other than Pablo can be characterized as high character guys.

you have it upside down and backwards again.

melo is a low character guy which is why dolan can tolerate him, in fact more than tolerate. dolan cannot tolerate superior men to himself and he finds a way of alienating them or sending them away. walsh comes to mind, and he didn't get more than a couple of million to do the job he did. but of course we must remember that stern virtually mandated that dolan hire walsh. it's because dolan is a malignant narcissist who likes to break stuff but has enough money to try and cover up his mess.

jackson's legacy will be tarnished for a tidy 60 million dollar sum before this escapade is over.

Could you expand upon this??...Site examples??..I say this because I know you are down on Melo for not lying to the Nuggets..You applauded LeBron deceitful exit from Cleveland..Please explain..

for the record i have said many times that lebron colluded with wade-- another guy whose character i have issues with-- and bosh. what he did was shytti and unethical, especially when you think about what it meant to the knicks and other suitors.

but you know what else he did? he honored his ****ing contract! now i ask you-- did melo, for all his "honesty," did melo honor his contract?

deceit in order to win on the one hand and on the other hand greed at the expense of winning.

This should be a good one..How did Melo not honor his contract??..By telling them he won't resign after his contract it up??

he forced his way here. he himself admitted it 2.5 years later. there were several quotes from the aftermath of that period of how difficult it was for denver as a team... so basically he screwed the team he was playing for AS he was playing for them. so yeah-- melo did not honor his contract in both directions.

I don't follow, how is that not honoring your contract??.Is there a clause in the contract that says you have to resign with the team that you are traded to??..Or he is not allow to choose his destination?..They could have done what Minny did with Love..

i didn't say he breached his contract but he did not honor the contract. it's the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. he became a distraction to the team that was paying him to perform his duties.

splat in the above post says melo was stupid. i also say stupid and add selfish and greedy.

he could have kept his mouth shut and become a free agent after that season, no matter where he mat have been traded by the nuggets before the end of that season. if the nuggets could not bear that stance that is on them. as it is he facilitated the exit by forcing his way to the knicks instead of doing the ethical thing which was to honor his contract until the nuggets themselves had to make a hard decision.

why help the team you are with instead of the team you want to end up going to, by trade or free agency?

anyway, you win hofresh. melo is a knick and will remain a knick for the forseeable future. i know that makes you happy, not only that he is being paid 25 million per season but that he is in the orange and blue. start up the marching band:

But you are asking him to do something that you would not do..Would you risk losing 25 mil if you can help it dk7??..Just like you can't blame Lin for taking the money in Houston...Free Agents resign with the own teams because of the extra year means extra money..Doesn't make them low character people..

you understand the concept of orders of magnitude, powers of ten, exponents? at what point do you stop "feeling" the money? at 1 million? certainly not. how about 10 million. that's actually still an amount most of us could "feel."

but this guy is going to make over 150 million before he retires and he won't even be 40 years old.

so to answer your question, i would risk making less money. i'd rather have the best opportunity to win a title in new york, to have the chance to have my name mentioned in the same breath as walt frazier, derek jeter, eli manning, mark messier, joe dimaggio.

that'd be something i could "feel" every day the rest of my days.

Money first, title second, you and I both know there isn't too many athletes (if any at all) that will sacrifice money for a title smack dead in the prime of their careers. That doesn't start happening until the tail end of their prime, It's just too risky, injuries happen. Look what happen to steph curry, he had to take a low ball extension because his ankle injury force him to miss 40+ games over 2 seasons.

So when you say you would have taken less money, you would be on of the FEW. Patrick and Houston didn't take less money, why are they different from melo

The irony in all this is that dk7 owns a business..

i pay my people a fair salary and i make it my business to create a healthy work culture. i hire people with the understanding that i have permission to mold them, and i screen them carefully. if they are not moldable or do not agree to be molded then i do not hire them. this is no different from coaching in my opinion, and in fact the team sport/military model works for me.

could any of the make more money elsewhere? maybe, but then they run the risk of lowering their quality of life. when there is strong leadership at the ownership level, and to a lesser extent the management level, a thriving situation can occur.

you see these principles manifested when comparing the spurs with the knicks.

nothing ironic about this.

Interesting. I thought you posted something about having an accident as a bike messenger or maybe it was just a bike accident. Anyway, good luck with your endeavors.

no i used to ride a bike everywhere in the city but i had my share of bike accidents, the second to last in 2007 required major shoulder reconstruction-- so i know about shoulder issues and 5 months of rehab-- and the last was a severe double-compound fracture due to avoiding hitting a child who had run out into the bike lane unattended by his family. that injury required 15 screws and 100 stitches, as well as 16 months of recuperation.

guess how many days of work i missed....

I need to get shoulder surgery. How did you make out after the rehab?

lets put it this way: my reconstructed shoulder took five months to recover but made my shoulder 15 years younger as a result of daily personal rehab and twice a week visits to a great physical therapist.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Splat wrote:Does anyone at this point need to question what Melo put Denver, NYC and the whole NBA through that season? It was the biggest NBA Melo-drama of all time and completely draining.

DK's point about not honoring his contract is not technically true for two reasons:

1) Melo was no pioneer when it comes to hijacking his team to force a mid-season trade.

2) Legally speaking he honored his contract for the full season wherever he played, Denver or NYC.

but the parts that really matter have little to do with that.

What really mattered in the end is Melo was too damn stupid to realize he was forcing himself into a situation where his new club had to squander its assets to get him.

You could talk about him being greedy and not waiting until free agency and simply taking less or not. I could care less.

But the historical conclusion I think is hard to dispute is Melo screwed himself aside from financial renumeration. He's pretty stupid unless you think he's smart because he got paid.

Is Melo is the stupid one or fans for not realizing this is a business first..That players will always do what is in their best interest first..Like what everyone else does in their own lives...

The owners were telling the players they were going to lock them out and rein in free agency that offseason. They didn't want guys leaving their teams, and colluding like Bosh, Wade and Bron. Melo wanted to leave the nuggets and wanted to negotiate a new deal under the old cba. The Melo should have waited argument means Denver gets nothing for him, and Melo loses 25 mil if he waits. It also assumes that Masaj just sits and waits for Melo to leave while getting no compensation. Melo didn't negotiate what the Knicks gave up for him.

Again, Melo got what he wanted. Money. That's the argument offered. I accept it as the truth. Everybody will draw their own personal conclusions about the rest.

Did the Nuggets and Knicks get what they wanted? I don't think Masaj does that deal if he thinks he can do better or if he thinks keeping Melo is a better option. I also don't think there is anyway Walsh/Dolan allows Melo to end up in NJ. Also, to ignore the labor situation at the time and say it was just about money seems like a pretty simplistic viewpoint.

Denver's front office was smarter than James Dolan. They were casting their fishing nets to haul in the biggest catch. They had a Russian billionaire across the river to help them up the ante.

Denver did their job. I don't care about Denver. I cared about the Knicks.

If they'd allowed Melo to end up in NJ it would have been the greatest blessing ever. Too bad they let vanity intrude on common sense.

And I've ignored nothing. First guys say its about the money and then it is not about the money. What is it about then? The labor situation was not about money? What then? Freedom? It was about the money.

The labor situation was about changing free agency and making it very costly for stars to leave the team that drafted them. You follow this stuff right? Dwill isn't in Dallas because he would've lost 25 mil.

So it is about the money. Got it.

What do you think the nba is about?

it's about the best franchises winning titles with the players who are most willing to sacrifice money and point scoring.

The last four nba champions have come from the two states in the nba that do not have a state income tax.

do your homework. the best players on those teams all took less money in order to allow their employers to bring in higher-quality players. all sacrificed on the floor and in the pocketbook. nobody in new york has done that in almost twenty years. maybe some dots can be connected here.

So Melo's salary is preventing the Knicks from acquiring players?..No..So why does it bother you what he is paid?

yes, and it isn't that he is being paid fairly either. he is being grossly overpaid for what he brings.