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Dolan Has Ruined This Franchise - It May Not Recover For A Decade
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holfresh
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2/23/2015  11:01 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
holfresh wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I remember back in the late 80s when Mark Jackson was drafted, he gave this team a big boost, got them on the same page, and the makings of an identity. As good as he was back then, Ewing wasn't enough. A few smart free agent hires, not necessarily stars but quality role players, the right draft pick, and the Knicks could start to climb out of this car wreck.

I know most posters want Townes or Okafor but maybe drafting a PG (Mudiay?), will give this team a dynamic PG who can start getting this team on the same page. I have to watch more footage of Mudiay, and more of the other top picks, but I like the idea of finding someone who can really lead this team, whoever the right pick may be.

Phil is running the triangle who uses a PG to spot up and shoot, not one to orchestrate..

I get that, its been a long time since we've had anyone really leading from the PG position (a few weeks with Lin doesn't count). As Phil said, sometimes the triangle doesnt work and you need someone who can get buckets. Having a PG who can lead and get buckets as Melo grows older would be nice. Having our pick pan out whoever he is would be nice.

Man I'm all for running a conventional offense with tenants of the triangle built around the skills of your best players...We need a new coach tho..I'm just not too optimistic..Only thing was during the TV broadcast, Breen wondered if Fisher will run the triangle next year...Thought that was interesting...

I opted not to get league pass this season so I cant comment on Fisher's job performance in detail, wasnt very impressed from the few games Ive seen. When Jackson first took the job he said that he wants system basketball, not necessarily the triangle. Seemed much more open back then to other systems.

Maybe this fiasco made Phil realize that he has to let his coach run the system he wants. Wouldnt be surprised if Fisher wanted to bury the triangle in a Jersey swamp somewhere. It is interesting that Breen brought it up, hope the issue gets more play over the summer.

Interestingly it was brought up by Clyde and Breen did a master deflection...Clyde asked Breen why doesn't any other team in the NBA use the triangle if it's so successful??..Breen then said, well have you asked your friend that in your conversations??...Breen later wondered if Fish will run the triangle next year...So, not sure if they were trying to drop a hint taht Fish might get some autonomy..
AUTOADVERT
knicks1248
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2/23/2015  11:47 AM
fishmike wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.
This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I mean fish, he put together a 10 win team, how in the world can you be excited about his future moves. Usually people are judge on what they have done, not what their gong to do.

ES
arkrud
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2/23/2015  11:54 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.
This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I mean fish, he put together a 10 win team, how in the world can you be excited about his future moves. Usually people are judge on what they have done, not what their gong to do.

Nothing is done yet and not too much was possible.
The house was not repairable and required demolition and building from scratch.
Demolition is in progress, the occupants moved to the shelter and suffering from bedbugs and mold.
We have the architect, project plan, and financing.
Will see how it will all played out.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
NYKBocker
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2/23/2015  11:56 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.
This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I mean fish, he put together a 10 win team, how in the world can you be excited about his future moves. Usually people are judge on what they have done, not what their gong to do.

Phil was smart enough and the balls to concede early. We are in tank mode to get the most ping pong balls in the lottery. 10 win team is what we need right now. He has set us up to have a great chance in both the draft and the FA market. This is a throw away season to get better. SA did this before the Duncan draft and they had The Admiral shutting it down for that year. Hopefully, Melo can be our Admiral and OK4/Towns/Russel/Mudiay can be our Timmy. Plus, we get a max type FA player coming along with 2nd tier players with the cap space we have. I can't wait for the season to be over.
arkrud
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2/23/2015  12:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2015  12:09 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.
This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I mean fish, he put together a 10 win team, how in the world can you be excited about his future moves. Usually people are judge on what they have done, not what their gong to do.

Phil was smart enough and the balls to concede early. We are in tank mode to get the most ping pong balls in the lottery. 10 win team is what we need right now. He has set us up to have a great chance in both the draft and the FA market. This is a throw away season to get better. SA did this before the Duncan draft and they had The Admiral shutting it down for that year. Hopefully, Melo can be our Admiral and OK4/Towns/Russel/Mudiay can be our Timmy. Plus, we get a max type FA player coming along with 2nd tier players with the cap space we have. I can't wait for the season to be over.

Season is over... I stoped watching the games before AS break.
And now it is no point to even read the Knicks news before the draft night.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
MS
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2/23/2015  12:14 PM
The one question no one ever asks is why? Why would anyone want to come to the Knicks. The owner has proved to incompetant and medaling. The fans, the media, the overall environment is the hardest in the league. Melo is a great player, but one that doesn't mesh well with most players.

So again...

Marc Gasol would be a fool to leave Memphis or not choose a destination like San Antonio. Lamarcus Aldridge would get the same amount of shine in LA as he would in new york and they are positioned better long term with Kobe expiring and two lottery picks and free agent money. Dragic is staying in Miami, Rondo, Jimmy Bulter, Deandre Jordan, aren't going anywhere.

So that essentially leaves the team with two question marks Towns and Okafur in the draft to pair with a Wes Matthews/Affalo/Beverly/Jackson type.

You're not putting your faith in Derek Fisher after watching what went down. If you don't feel like the triangle works to your advantage why would you come be a part of it?
knicks1248
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2/23/2015  12:15 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.
This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I mean fish, he put together a 10 win team, how in the world can you be excited about his future moves. Usually people are judge on what they have done, not what their gong to do.

Phil was smart enough and the balls to concede early. We are in tank mode to get the most ping pong balls in the lottery. 10 win team is what we need right now. He has set us up to have a great chance in both the draft and the FA market. This is a throw away season to get better. SA did this before the Duncan draft and they had The Admiral shutting it down for that year. Hopefully, Melo can be our Admiral and OK4/Towns/Russel/Mudiay can be our Timmy. Plus, we get a max type FA player coming along with 2nd tier players with the cap space we have. I can't wait for the season to be over.


Ok, so whats the pitch to a veteran FA..

Duncan was an extremely HIGH IQ PLAYER, they had a ton of quality role players and leadership on SA, and David robinson. WE have none of that, not even remotely close

ES
misterearl
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2/23/2015  12:20 PM
Graduating From The Naval Academy... versus One Year At Syracuse

NYKBocker wrote:
Hopefully, Melo can be our Admiral and OK4/Towns/Russel/Mudiay can be our Timmy. Plus, we get a max type FA player coming along with 2nd tier players with the cap space we have. I can't wait for the season to be over.

NYBocker - the San Antonio comparison is a superficial one. The Spurs already had a veteran supporting cast in place and David Robinson's leadership traits will never be confused with those of Carmelo Anthony.

Where will the Knicks veteran leadership come from?

once a knick always a knick
NYKBocker
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2/23/2015  12:31 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.
This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I mean fish, he put together a 10 win team, how in the world can you be excited about his future moves. Usually people are judge on what they have done, not what their gong to do.

Phil was smart enough and the balls to concede early. We are in tank mode to get the most ping pong balls in the lottery. 10 win team is what we need right now. He has set us up to have a great chance in both the draft and the FA market. This is a throw away season to get better. SA did this before the Duncan draft and they had The Admiral shutting it down for that year. Hopefully, Melo can be our Admiral and OK4/Towns/Russel/Mudiay can be our Timmy. Plus, we get a max type FA player coming along with 2nd tier players with the cap space we have. I can't wait for the season to be over.


Ok, so whats the pitch to a veteran FA..

Duncan was an extremely HIGH IQ PLAYER, they had a ton of quality role players and leadership on SA, and David robinson. WE have none of that, not even remotely close

I think the playing at the mecca or playing with in a system based offense or any supposed pros or cons playing at NY is played out. I think at the end of the day free agents will only care about the money. We have the money to throw at them. They will come.
fishmike
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2/23/2015  12:37 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.
This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I mean fish, he put together a 10 win team, how in the world can you be excited about his future moves. Usually people are judge on what they have done, not what their gong to do.

What has he done? He's failed to work magic with the prior roster, so he's dumping every piece he can to start new. Did you want a GM who was going to find a way to make JR/Tyson/Felton/Melo/Bargs/Amare/Shump work? Or do you want a GM willing to look at that group, give it once last chance, and not be afaid to rip it apart when they get their one short chance? Did Phil trade the picks for Bargs? I mean you see this team and you really think to yourself that Phil created this?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
NYKBocker
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2/23/2015  12:39 PM
misterearl wrote:Graduating From The Naval Academy... versus One Year At Syracuse

NYKBocker wrote:
Hopefully, Melo can be our Admiral and OK4/Towns/Russel/Mudiay can be our Timmy. Plus, we get a max type FA player coming along with 2nd tier players with the cap space we have. I can't wait for the season to be over.

NYBocker - the San Antonio comparison is a superficial one. The Spurs already had a veteran supporting cast in place and David Robinson's leadership traits will never be confused with those of Carmelo Anthony.

Where will the Knicks veteran leadership come from?

You are right about the veteran supporting cast but our cupboard is bare. Veteran leadership will need to come from free agency. You have to trust Uncle Phil that he will make the right decisions. I agree with Melo's leadership but he is a superstar and that should be good enough for us. We have no choice.
misterearl
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2/23/2015  12:39 PM
Mercenaries R Us

NYKBocker - throwing money at a problem is never a solution. "What is my motivation?"

once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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2/23/2015  12:43 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Ok, so whats the pitch to a veteran FA..
first of all you dont have to win a title here to be loved, you just have to play hard. The Knicks of the 90s didnt win crap but those teams were beloved because of their blue collar style. Mike Sweetney was a crowd favorite because he played hard when he got a chance.

I dont think it will be hard to get players here, but thats why you pay the guy with the 12 rings for, to recruit.

I mean when Phil drafts a bust and nobody comes to play here then fire off... but these Phil is a failure threads are ridiculous at this point. Phil has done well to maximize our offseason. High pick, tons of cap space. Lets see how he executes.

Its a lost season, but it can also be the avenue that finally yields us a star player.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
NYKBocker
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2/23/2015  12:48 PM
misterearl wrote:Mercenaries R Us

NYKBocker - throwing money at a problem is never a solution. "What is my motivation?"

It is what it is and this is where we are at. We were in such bad shape that this had to be the only path. You can't blame this front office for the failings of the previous front office. Actually, we were in great shape with Donnie until Dolan meddled again.
NYKBocker
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2/23/2015  12:49 PM
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Ok, so whats the pitch to a veteran FA..
first of all you dont have to win a title here to be loved, you just have to play hard. The Knicks of the 90s didnt win crap but those teams were beloved because of their blue collar style. Mike Sweetney was a crowd favorite because he played hard when he got a chance.

I dont think it will be hard to get players here, but thats why you pay the guy with the 12 rings for, to recruit.

I mean when Phil drafts a bust and nobody comes to play here then fire off... but these Phil is a failure threads are ridiculous at this point. Phil has done well to maximize our offseason. High pick, tons of cap space. Lets see how he executes.

Its a lost season, but it can also be the avenue that finally yields us a star player.

Yup Yup.
holfresh
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2/23/2015  12:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2015  12:52 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
misterearl wrote:Mercenaries R Us

NYKBocker - throwing money at a problem is never a solution. "What is my motivation?"

It is what it is and this is where we are at. We were in such bad shape that this had to be the only path. You can't blame this front office for the failings of the previous front office. Actually, we were in great shape with Donnie until Dolan meddled again.

How could we be in great shape owing Amare 100 mil on bad knees..And salivating to sign DWill..
fishmike
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2/23/2015  12:58 PM
holfresh wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
misterearl wrote:Mercenaries R Us

NYKBocker - throwing money at a problem is never a solution. "What is my motivation?"

It is what it is and this is where we are at. We were in such bad shape that this had to be the only path. You can't blame this front office for the failings of the previous front office. Actually, we were in great shape with Donnie until Dolan meddled again.

How could we be in great shape owing Amare 100 mil on bad knees..And salivating to sign DWill..

because Will and Gallo were playing well. Mosgov was a nice piece. Felton was 27 and playing the ball of his career. We had our picks. Even with Amare's knee ready to explode we could have amnestied him.

You realize we used that amnesty on Billups, ONLY AFTER we picked up his option in the first place? That team had pieces to work with and moves to make. They were playing well before the Melo rumors derailed Gallo's good play (forever it seems). But sigh... those days are loooong gone.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TeamBall
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2/23/2015  1:01 PM
fishmike wrote:
holfresh wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
misterearl wrote:Mercenaries R Us

NYKBocker - throwing money at a problem is never a solution. "What is my motivation?"

It is what it is and this is where we are at. We were in such bad shape that this had to be the only path. You can't blame this front office for the failings of the previous front office. Actually, we were in great shape with Donnie until Dolan meddled again.

How could we be in great shape owing Amare 100 mil on bad knees..And salivating to sign DWill..

because Will and Gallo were playing well. Mosgov was a nice piece. Felton was 27 and playing the ball of his career. We had our picks. Even with Amare's knee ready to explode we could have amnestied him.

You realize we used that amnesty on Billups, ONLY AFTER we picked up his option in the first place? That team had pieces to work with and moves to make. They were playing well before the Melo rumors derailed Gallo's good play (forever it seems). But sigh... those days are loooong gone.


This is the one point I've always had trouble with. I just can't believe there was any chance we'd amnesty Amare after the season he had for us at that point.
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
knicks1248
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2/23/2015  1:01 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.
This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I mean fish, he put together a 10 win team, how in the world can you be excited about his future moves. Usually people are judge on what they have done, not what their gong to do.

Phil was smart enough and the balls to concede early. We are in tank mode to get the most ping pong balls in the lottery. 10 win team is what we need right now. He has set us up to have a great chance in both the draft and the FA market. This is a throw away season to get better. SA did this before the Duncan draft and they had The Admiral shutting it down for that year. Hopefully, Melo can be our Admiral and OK4/Towns/Russel/Mudiay can be our Timmy. Plus, we get a max type FA player coming along with 2nd tier players with the cap space we have. I can't wait for the season to be over.


Ok, so whats the pitch to a veteran FA..

Duncan was an extremely HIGH IQ PLAYER, they had a ton of quality role players and leadership on SA, and David robinson. WE have none of that, not even remotely close

I think the playing at the mecca or playing with in a system based offense or any supposed pros or cons playing at NY is played out. I think at the end of the day free agents will only care about the money. We have the money to throw at them. They will come.

This dude phil has said on several occasions he won't over pay for FA,just like he blew smoke stating he hoped melo would take less and when he heard melo was close to signing with the bulls, he hop his ass on a plan with a max contract in hand, because

His plan A's have all failed big time, from kerr, to melo taking less, to the triangle, to the trades, and His plan B's are on the fly, so those aren't working either

So what kind of $ are we throwing at FA.

ES
holfresh
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2/23/2015  1:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2015  1:13 PM
fishmike wrote:
holfresh wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
misterearl wrote:Mercenaries R Us

NYKBocker - throwing money at a problem is never a solution. "What is my motivation?"

It is what it is and this is where we are at. We were in such bad shape that this had to be the only path. You can't blame this front office for the failings of the previous front office. Actually, we were in great shape with Donnie until Dolan meddled again.

How could we be in great shape owing Amare 100 mil on bad knees..And salivating to sign DWill..

because Will and Gallo were playing well. Mosgov was a nice piece. Felton was 27 and playing the ball of his career. We had our picks. Even with Amare's knee ready to explode we could have amnestied him.

You realize we used that amnesty on Billups, ONLY AFTER we picked up his option in the first place? That team had pieces to work with and moves to make. They were playing well before the Melo rumors derailed Gallo's good play (forever it seems). But sigh... those days are loooong gone.

This is the same crew that re-uped Billups and had a massive hard on for DWill that you are expressing confidence in..And what picks did we miss out on?..We were playing .500 ball with Amare playing out his mind..Remener MDA left because Dolan wouldn't do a Melo for DWill trade..
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