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We are going to win the Atlantic division..
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Splat
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10/27/2014  1:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2014  1:37 PM
Further, you totally got on my wrong side trying to mischaracterize me as wholly negative.

You're a real clown to say this:

"If a player has 5 positives and 1 negative, you will dwell on the negative like a pure hater, because that's what haters/pessimistic ppl do."

Are you for real? How could you not expect me to get hot with an idiotic personal attack like that? What garbage.

You've seen my other posts.

You know I have clearly weighed the pros and cons of every player, even Stat. I've been clear-minded and even-handed about the traits of the following players:

Shump
Melo
Pablo
Jose
Acy
J.Smith
JR
Tim
Cole
and every damn player on this squad

which means I've acknowledged each and every one's strengths and weaknesses. You're full of crap.

So go pound sand!

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
AUTOADVERT
Splat
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10/27/2014  1:46 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2014  1:47 PM
F500ONE wrote:
You mean saying stuff like this before

He even saw his face, how healthy he was,


"He's overlooked. We think he's going to really do well in the system we have," Jackson said of Bargnani on MSG Network during the second quarter of the Knicks' 95-72 Summer League victory over Charlotte. "We have a couple of guards he likes to play with, Jose (Calderon) and Pablo (Prigioni), and I think he's going to be a surprise and a pleasant one for our fans."


And while injured


"If Andrea Bargnani's initial season in New York was a disappointment, I believe he'll thrive in the triangle. The 3-point shot is a bit out of his range, but from 20 feet and in, Andrea is a deadly shooter. And those are the kinds of shots that the offense will generate for him.

I see at least 2 lies


First of all who is he overlooked by

Everyone knows what he is, a player who isn't that good


Second he's not a "deadly shooter" from 20ft and in

I pulled up his Shot Chart from season-to-season and with


Exception to last year in an ISO offense he shot

About as mediocre as a player can shoot in this range


Of course Phil has a lot of///// "Here buy this Pinto

From me it rides like a Mercedes or BMW take your pick"//// car salesman in him

I dunno what's going on here, but the literal-mindedness being displayed on this board has become breathtaking.

I also commented on the Barg's comments being a game of misdirection a full 10 days ago. I said it was likely a form of political gamesmanship on the part of Phil and Fish to handle the Bargs situation, both with the player's ego and to manage press perception.

The board response? Mockery. No way they'd lie about that. Wow! Now you have people who want to put people like myself (or yourself it seems) in their place because they don't follow their script.

Literal-minded people always make the best slaves and policemen in equal measures. Easy to sell them whatever you want them to believe. Seems we have a bunch of true believers here. And you know how fundamentalists are. You cross their line in the sand, you burn!

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
fishmike
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10/27/2014  2:03 PM
Splat wrote:
F500ONE wrote:
You mean saying stuff like this before

He even saw his face, how healthy he was,


"He's overlooked. We think he's going to really do well in the system we have," Jackson said of Bargnani on MSG Network during the second quarter of the Knicks' 95-72 Summer League victory over Charlotte. "We have a couple of guards he likes to play with, Jose (Calderon) and Pablo (Prigioni), and I think he's going to be a surprise and a pleasant one for our fans."


And while injured


"If Andrea Bargnani's initial season in New York was a disappointment, I believe he'll thrive in the triangle. The 3-point shot is a bit out of his range, but from 20 feet and in, Andrea is a deadly shooter. And those are the kinds of shots that the offense will generate for him.

I see at least 2 lies


First of all who is he overlooked by

Everyone knows what he is, a player who isn't that good


Second he's not a "deadly shooter" from 20ft and in

I pulled up his Shot Chart from season-to-season and with


Exception to last year in an ISO offense he shot

About as mediocre as a player can shoot in this range


Of course Phil has a lot of///// "Here buy this Pinto

From me it rides like a Mercedes or BMW take your pick"//// car salesman in him

I dunno what's going on here, but the literal-mindedness being displayed on this board has become breathtaking.

I also commented on the Barg's comments being a game of misdirection a full 10 days ago. I said it was likely a form of political gamesmanship on the part of Phil and Fish to handle the Bargs situation, both with the player's ego and to manage press perception.

The board response? Mockery. No way they'd lie about that. Wow! Now you have people who want to put people like myself (or yourself it seems) in their place because they don't follow their script.

Literal-minded people always make the best slaves and policemen in equal measures. Easy to sell them whatever you want them to believe. Seems we have a bunch of true believers here. And you know how fundamentalists are. You cross their line in the sand, you burn!

which board did you get kicked off before coming here to unslave us all?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Splat
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10/27/2014  2:10 PM
Suggesting the plan may be to tank is treason evidently.

Other clubs do it, but dare not mention it here or you'll be attacked as a hater.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
knicks1248
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10/27/2014  2:32 PM
Splat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Whats wrong with saying this is a transition yr where we are evaluating our talent in preparation for next season. Trust and believe your in a minority group.

You and F5 have nothing but negative stuff to say about everyone associated with the franchise. If a player has 5 positives and 1 negative, you will dwell on the negative like a pure hater, because that's what haters/pessimistic ppl do.

Short sighted people never see the big picture, they want to see things develop overnight. It they wake up the next morning and things haven't change dramatically.

IF MJ was on the knicks, all you would say is that he shoots to much never passes the ball (unless he's triple team), and makes no better..

Stop selling horsechit by claiming your version of being a fan is pure by comparison to those who dissent against naive, vague boosterism. The kind of stuff I see being promoted here as optimism is the real hot air, not my take on things.

You're clearly defensive as I've only stated the big picture and to me that means accepting the reality of this being, yes, a transitional year, but also with the high probability this is a tank year.

Go stuff your dumb "hater" comments in your snuff box. People who can't debate call those they disagree with haters. I don't care if you like what I have to say. I'm only optimistic when I see reasons for it, whereas you're acting like a miffed schoolgirl because you feel a "real fan" should be constitutionally optimistic by default and not say such damnable things as "Tank" in your holy presence.

I despise people who accuse people of being bad fans. That's what you're doing. Its a sign of your complete inability to say anything of depth. You attack the messenger, not the message. Get lost.

When all you talk about is every aspect of the roster in a negative way, what do you expect to be perceived you as. Your evaluation has been the same since opening day of camp. Your taking everything phil and fishers says and spin it into a negative.

What kills me the most is that you look at mediocre players from other teams in the east, and say they are light yrs better than our players. Just like some fans can be overly optimistic, some can overly pessimistic.

I'm stating we have every chance to win the atlantic with this current roster, and your basically saying were tanking this season and phil/fish wont admitted publicly. So you are able to evaluate this roster, and all the practices that you personal witness and come to a full conclusion that this roster doesn't have a chance in hell, and that a 5x championship coach, and a 11 time championship president is blowing smoke up our asses.

ES
gunsnewing
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10/27/2014  2:34 PM
You are a breathe of fresh air Splat. I think you hit an underlying nerve
Splat
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10/27/2014  2:36 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Splat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Whats wrong with saying this is a transition yr where we are evaluating our talent in preparation for next season. Trust and believe your in a minority group.

You and F5 have nothing but negative stuff to say about everyone associated with the franchise. If a player has 5 positives and 1 negative, you will dwell on the negative like a pure hater, because that's what haters/pessimistic ppl do.

Short sighted people never see the big picture, they want to see things develop overnight. It they wake up the next morning and things haven't change dramatically.

IF MJ was on the knicks, all you would say is that he shoots to much never passes the ball (unless he's triple team), and makes no better..

Stop selling horsechit by claiming your version of being a fan is pure by comparison to those who dissent against naive, vague boosterism. The kind of stuff I see being promoted here as optimism is the real hot air, not my take on things.

You're clearly defensive as I've only stated the big picture and to me that means accepting the reality of this being, yes, a transitional year, but also with the high probability this is a tank year.

Go stuff your dumb "hater" comments in your snuff box. People who can't debate call those they disagree with haters. I don't care if you like what I have to say. I'm only optimistic when I see reasons for it, whereas you're acting like a miffed schoolgirl because you feel a "real fan" should be constitutionally optimistic by default and not say such damnable things as "Tank" in your holy presence.

I despise people who accuse people of being bad fans. That's what you're doing. Its a sign of your complete inability to say anything of depth. You attack the messenger, not the message. Get lost.

When all you talk about is every aspect of the roster in a negative way, what do you expect to be perceived you as. Your evaluation has been the same since opening day of camp. Your taking everything phil and fishers says and spin it into a negative.

What kills me the most is that you look at mediocre players from other teams in the east, and say they are light yrs better than our players. Just like some fans can be overly optimistic, some can overly pessimistic.

I'm stating we have every chance to win the atlantic with this current roster, and your basically saying were tanking this season and phil/fish wont admitted publicly. So you are able to evaluate this roster, and all the practices that you personal witness and come to a full conclusion that this roster doesn't have a chance in hell, and that a 5x championship coach, and a 11 time championship president is blowing smoke up our asses.

You are a naive person if you actually believe Phil and Fish wouldn't blow smoke up your super loyal asses to accomplish whatever they want.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
Splat
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10/27/2014  2:48 PM
gunsnewing wrote:You are a breathe of fresh air Splat. I think you hit an underlying nerve

I'm not really in an oppositional stance as much as I'm extremely clear about my criticisms. This is not yet a good team. It will be lucky to be a mediocre team. What's so controversial about that? Some people are super touchy.

But if I'm attacked by being mischaracterized by lazy-minded people as a hater, then of course I will bite back. I'm just as much of a fan and I call it as I see it.

This club has a bad roster overall. Waving a triangle over it can only do so much. Talent is necessary to have any shot in the NBA whatsover and we don't have it. Period.

Plus, Phil and Fish are both unproven in positions they've never held before. Just because I was 12 time trout wrangling champion in Montana doesn't guarantee I'll be a spectacular success in my new job selling trout replicas in Manhattan.

So I'm on board and can wait if Phil pulls the right strings in the next 2 seasons. If he doesn't, then we'll be back to square one all over again. Facts are facts until proven otherwise. We were bad last year and it is just my opinion that is more likely to be the case this year too than us making the playoffs. Sorry, some folks can't handle that. Boo hoo.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
fishmike
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10/27/2014  2:54 PM
Splat wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:You are a breathe of fresh air Splat. I think you hit an underlying nerve

I'm not really in an oppositional stance as much as I'm extremely clear about my criticisms. This is not yet a good team. It will be lucky to be a mediocre team. What's so controversial about that? Some people are super touchy.

But if I'm attacked by being mischaracterized by lazy-minded people as a hater, then of course I will bite back. I'm just as much of a fan and I call it as I see it.

This club has a bad roster overall. Waving a triangle over it can only do so much. Talent is necessary to have any shot in the NBA whatsover and we don't have it. Period.

Plus, Phil and Fish are both unproven in positions they've never held before. Just because I was 12 time trout wrangling champion in Montana doesn't guarantee I'll be a spectacular success in my new job selling trout replicas in Manhattan.

So I'm on board and can wait if Phil pulls the right strings in the next 2 seasons. If he doesn't, then we'll be back to square one all over again. Facts are facts until proven otherwise. We were bad last year and it is just my opinion that is more likely to be the case this year too than us making the playoffs. Sorry, some folks can't handle that. Boo hoo.

welcome back Isles...
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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10/27/2014  3:00 PM
I'm optimistic. That's how I look at things but that doesn't mean I ignore every issue. I have stated over and over that the team has yet to fully adjust to the new system. I have stated how JR and others have struggled to figure out how to use the system to get them good shots. I've mentioned how Larkin was struggling early but had some good signs of growth since the start of preseason.

I make those kinds of statements all the time but since i'm often defending the merits of this team or players like Bargs it makes it seem like I never ever disagree with anything having to do with the Knicks. People have forgotten how hard I was on Melo early on but I was really hard on him. Bashed TD, Shump, JR, Felton, Tyson and Woodson in the past.

Here is the thing tho. Right now we have 2 guys who had what are basically sore muscles that need rest and not surgery!!! Unless they're hiding something more serious which we can't know. Jose should be back soon and with Bargs it's wait and see. That's not a huge problem like say Durant or even worse Paul George. Miami is reliant on Wade with his health issues and Chicago reliant on DRose with his injury history. No one should be comparing what our issues are with those situations.

Fact is we're closer to 100% than it sounds from the way some are talking.

knicks1248
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10/27/2014  4:32 PM
gunsnewing wrote:You are a breathe of fresh air Splat. I think you hit an underlying nerve

Im not offending by anything splat says, it's his opinion, and he has every right to expresses it. I personally rather talk about players playing up to their potentially, rather than ridicule a coach and owner for trying to dupe knick fans.

ES
Splat
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10/27/2014  4:52 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:You are a breathe of fresh air Splat. I think you hit an underlying nerve

Im not offending by anything splat says, it's his opinion, and he has every right to expresses it. I personally rather talk about players playing up to their potentially, rather than ridicule a coach and owner for trying to dupe knick fans.

Let's be accurate. I did not ridicule Phil or Fish. I wish rebuttals here would show more awareness of what is actually being said so we can debate without the false labels being glibly applied thus far. OK?

I was saying that not every public statement or comment they make can be guaranteed to reflect what is going on behind the scenes. I was challenging any tendencies towards knee jerk assumptions that their statements are never without misdirection and deceit, because that is part of a GM's job description. I was knocking down the implausible assumptions some were proferring that P&J's words are gospel and can always be trusted on face value to be the actual blueprint.

I respect cunning and subterfuge. I would hold them in high esteem for saying one thing and doing another if it results in an edge over other teams. In the Barg's example, it may simply be domestic politics and that oftentimes mean saying thing that appease the reality filters of their own players, the press and the fan base.

Phil's a hustler. He better be or I'll lose confidence in him. And that means selling the crap out of things when it suits their agenda, not yours. A fan's wishes and a team's PR strategy are not guaranteed matches.

Before someone counters with a comment that Phil would not lie to the fans, please think first, then respond, because it really has nothing to do with the fans. You're all just collateral fodder in the greater strategy. What coaches and GM's say have way more to do with managing their own players and with using the press as a tool for molding the perceptions of opposing GMs. The fans are way down the list of their concerns strategically.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
knickscity
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10/27/2014  5:14 PM
Damn, I click on the thread and I see feathers flying. Let me guess, folks realize this is nowhere near a championship team, Fisher can't even get a starting lineup together because his pg and of are injured.

Hmmmmm......sounds like last year.

knickscity
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10/27/2014  5:17 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Splat wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Splat wrote:Tank Job brewing. Phil assembled a smorgasbord of "interchangeable role players" who can work in Le Triangle (sounds better with French pronunciation).

The Bargs story plus Stat going gimpy during the season takes care of what to do with their expiring albatrosses. Then Jose and/or Pablo will need games or weeks off to nurse lingering somethings leaving the team with Crack Baby at the helm for extended stretches.

That leaves us with a roster management game of chairs. At that point, Melo does start to nurse some convenient injuries to steal a dozen games of rest here and there.

And voila! TANK JOB! Phil knows what he's doing it seems. It will give them a chance to figure out how good Early, Timmy and Wear are.

Atlantic Division my butt. What a joke.

Is that why Phil said we have enough to make the playoffs which will be about 45 wins? He hired his buddy Fisher only to take the fall for a tank job season while he tells everyone the Knicks should be a playoff team and his real agenda is to see how good a player he got in the 2nd round is?

Makes zero sense.

Would it make sense then if Phil said "We're tanking this season and Melo was on board with this plan before he resigned"?

No, because you're not allowed to say that. So if the plan is to tank, the only thing you can do is appease the hopes and dreams of the unwashed masses (and well-scrubbed season ticket holders) while you go about the business of tanking.

Hey, it's all fantasy and I'm just mucking around with no assertion of proof positive of anything. But to say my fantasy interpretation is intrinsically wrong and that every public utterance by Phil Jackson is true blue in all its apple goodness is also pure speculation.

If he's the Zen master, then he also speaks in koans and the average cat cannot decipher those. If anything, he's a cagey bastard and he'll lie anyway he feels is necessary to get what he wants.

Taking his statements on face value is for rookies. Not saying you do, but the implication is no misdirection has been used thus far and I'm always going to expect that to be part of the scenario unlike many irony-challenged optimists who seem confident of great success this year.

Whats wrong with saying this is a transition yr where we are evaluating our talent in preparation for next season. Trust and believe your in a minority group.

You and F5 have nothing but negative stuff to say about everyone associated with the franchise. If a player has 5 positives and 1 negative, you will dwell on the negative like a pure hater, because that's what haters/pessimistic ppl do.

Short sighted people never see the big picture, they want to see things develop overnight. It they wake up the next morning and things haven't change dramatically.

IF MJ was on the knicks, all you would say is that he shoots to much never passes the ball (unless he's triple team), and makes no better..

The better question is why don't Phil say its a transition year.

Splat
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10/27/2014  5:25 PM
knickscity wrote:Damn, I click on the thread and I see feathers flying. Let me guess, folks realize this is nowhere near a championship team, Fisher can't even get a starting lineup together because his pg and of are injured.

Hmmmmm......sounds like last year.

Sometimes it is better to slip into your favorite nightgown, make some fresh popcorn and curl up with a rerun of The Notebook and get yourself some Gosling quality time rather than stress over the fate of a historically bad team.

That was for all of you ladies out there, oh yeah .......

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
knickscity
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10/27/2014  5:27 PM
Splat wrote:
knickscity wrote:Damn, I click on the thread and I see feathers flying. Let me guess, folks realize this is nowhere near a championship team, Fisher can't even get a starting lineup together because his pg and of are injured.

Hmmmmm......sounds like last year.

Sometimes it is better to slip into your favorite nightgown, make some fresh popcorn and curl up with a rerun of The Notebook and get yourself some Gosling quality time rather than stress over the fate of a historically bad team.

That was for all of you ladies out there, oh yeah .......

I prefer just a robe. I'm sexy.

StarksEwing1
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10/27/2014  5:38 PM
nixluva wrote:I'm optimistic. That's how I look at things but that doesn't mean I ignore every issue. I have stated over and over that the team has yet to fully adjust to the new system. I have stated how JR and others have struggled to figure out how to use the system to get them good shots. I've mentioned how Larkin was struggling early but had some good signs of growth since the start of preseason.

I make those kinds of statements all the time but since i'm often defending the merits of this team or players like Bargs it makes it seem like I never ever disagree with anything having to do with the Knicks. People have forgotten how hard I was on Melo early on but I was really hard on him. Bashed TD, Shump, JR, Felton, Tyson and Woodson in the past.

Here is the thing tho. Right now we have 2 guys who had what are basically sore muscles that need rest and not surgery!!! Unless they're hiding something more serious which we can't know. Jose should be back soon and with Bargs it's wait and see. That's not a huge problem like say Durant or even worse Paul George. Miami is reliant on Wade with his health issues and Chicago reliant on DRose with his injury history. No one should be comparing what our issues are with those situations.

Fact is we're closer to 100% than it sounds from the way some are talking.

i love optimism i honestly do. However i feel this year we will be a .500 team until we clear space. I know you have defended bargs but it simply was a dumb and uneccessary trade. Resigning jr also wasnt smart. However i like that phil is focused on developing youth and clearing cap for next summer
djsunyc
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10/27/2014  5:55 PM
for the knicks to be a .500 team, their offense will have to be a top 5 offense in the nba b/c the team's defense will be one of the worst.
gunsnewing
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10/27/2014  5:59 PM
djsunyc wrote:for the knicks to be a .500 team, their offense will have to be a top 5 offense in the nba b/c the team's defense will be one of the worst.

if anything the defense is ahead of the offense
even last year the defense was slightly ahead of the offense

check the numbers

Knicks will win 40-45 games. Whether that means being stuck they are stuck in no mans land will be determined

StarksEwing1
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10/27/2014  6:08 PM
I wouldnt mind getting a good draft pick for a change because usually we trade all our picks especially when we have good draft position
We are going to win the Atlantic division..

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