Getting rid of Felton #1

1 1st round pick and 1 2nd round pick IN THIS DRAFT

along with expirings
anything extra is a bonus

I do believe Bulls is the best choice for Melo, just not at the price NardDog is suggesting, not even close to that...

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

RonRon wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Have people really looked at the numbers of this?

Let's say the amnesty Boozer and trade Dunleavy plus Toney Snell; that puts there cap around 41.4M. Those moves alone create space.

That saves them $21.2 million and puts the cap at the $41.4 million you're suggesting. BUT, you're not factoring in the cap holds for their vacant roster spots and the cap hold for their 1st round picks. With Carlos Boozer, Mike Dunleavy and Tony Snell gone, the Bulls would only have 5 guys under contract; each vacant spot is $500,000 and there are 10 vacant roster spots which would result in a $5 million cap hold. On top of that, the 16th and 19th picks should each make about $1.75 million in their first year, times 2, would be a little more than a $3 million cap hold. You add those two cap holds together and deduct it from the $21.2 million that they are below the cap and the Bulls would only have $13 million to offer Melo in his first year. The worst part is that after they sign him, they'd only have a $3 million exception to sign a player of consequence. And you think that's realistic?

Cap holds are used only up to the 12th roster spot, not the 15th. Teams are required to have 12 players on their rosters. It looks like they could give Melo a 4 year deal starting at around $18 mil if they took the approach Yellowboy was suggesting. With annual raises, I think that would be around 4 years, $80 mil.

Even then, their best offer would be $14.75 million in the first year of Melo's deal, and would only have 5 other players under contract, with no other means to improve the team than a $3 million exception. That's not exactly a winning strategy and if it comes down to that, I think he'll end up in Houston.

You said it was $17 mil earlier, and that was when you thought the cap holds were through the 15th spot. With 3 less $500K cap holds, wouldn't that make the starting salary $18.5 mil?
He'd have a much easier path to the finals in Chicago. Maybe the idea of peaking at another WCF appearance doesn't appeal to him. Maybe he thinks (like with Miami) plenty of good players will sign for the vet min to join him, Rose, and Noah.

That's because I was still trying to figure out all of the working parts involved in this which is pretty dynamic. And mind you, people have been throwing around different scenarios that carry their own unique breakdown financially. That initial figure I calculated for your hypothetical was probably not factoring in the cap holds associated with the draft picks, which you would keep. When you adjust for them and the other factors, it only amounts to $14.75.

CHI's payroll is at $63 million, the same as the cap, so any contract dump would result in cap space. Amnesty Boozer, that removes $17 million; dump Dunleavy ($3 million) and Snell ($1.2 million) would result in them being $21.2 million below the cap hold. But when you factor in that they'd have 7 vacant roster spots that would result in a $3.5 million cap hold and an additional +$3 million cap hold for their two first round picks. Add those two and subtract them from the $21.2 million and you end up with about $14.75 million in viable cap space. We both know Melo isn't signing a first year contract for that. Winning matters but so does money for him. This is why it makes so much more sense for Chicago to give us what we want, none of which has been core to their success or carries any long-term repercussions. Are $21 million in contracts you don't want anyway, Mirotic, Butler and two first round picks really worth more than an All-NBA player, Taj Gibson, Mike Dunleavy, Iman Shumpert (if they want him), your full MLE, your LLE, a player you could get at $2.1 million, another player you could get at $1.1 million and all your future draft picks?

You really think with the leverage we have with CA *close to none*, Chicago would give ALL those players, draft picks, and assets you are suggesting?
I think a lot of your trades are VERY one sided, not even realistic for the other teams, while I hope we could get all those assets, we would be the only team that would pay that high of a price for a player of Melo's caliber at his age
Our best chance in getting maximum value for CA was during last seasons deadline or prior, when we did have some leverage, but not after the horrible year we had last year in addition to his age and contract CA insist on acquiring

While I agree with you that the owner is CHEAP in Chicago, they will not give up the farm unless it is Lebron James or Kevin Durant, definitely not for CA at his age
They would much rather AMNESTY Boozer (while another team WILL PICK up his contract as a 1 year rental)
Make small trades like they did with Korver to get rid of Dunleavy and probably would even look to trade Derrick Rose before they give us all those assets for CA
If they traded ALL THOSE assets for CA, it would defeat the purpose, leaving little to NO talent on their roster in order to contend

I like Taj Gibson a lot, however, we are preserving cap space in HOPES of a future trio or at least 2x FRANCHISE ALL STAR's
And Gibson's contract in addition to all of the contracts of all of our contracts in 2015, it would limit our chances in landing a trio or 2 ALL STAR type talents
I think we would look to move him if we do acquire him, though I think Chicago would be looking to keep him as their PF/C, even possibly start him along unless Tony Snell makes a huge progress towards being similar to Kawaii Leanard that they hoped when they drafted him

Only Dolan is stupid and ignorant enough to think that would allow them to get *better* along with many Knick fans'

And you can only have the LLE if you are under the cap, able to use it every other year, they last used it on Belineli 2 seasons ago
If they are over the cap which is estimated to be 5m over, they would either have the full 5m + MLE or 3.2m MLE but NOT both the MLE and LLE

If Chicago doesn't want to indulge our requests, then they can kick rocks. Like I've said a dozen times already, they'd need to dump more than half their roster and would basically be rolling into next season with Derrick Rose (if he is even healthy), Joakim Noah, Melo, a player paid $3 million/yr and some minimum salaried dudes.

More likely than not, Melo realizes how impractical that team is and takes his services to Houston, where he will be able to sign there outright (when dump trade Lin and Asik) AND maintain a supporting cast around him that are pretty good and still on their rookie/minimum deals (see Terrence Jones, Patrick Beverly, Jordan Hamilton, Chandler Parsons, etc.). Quite frankly, I'd prefer Melo walk to Houston than have the Bulls give us a bull**** draft pick for the privilege of paying Carlos Boozer.

I think Melo sees Chicago as a place that has a better chance of winning. He obviously has a lot of respect for Thibs. He probably knows that Houston isn't winning anything with McHale running things. Also, didn't Howard say he wasn't going to reach out to any of the big name free agents. Noah has been recruiting Melo. I see him going to Chicago and being the missing piece for them if they are healthy. There was a report that Rose was back on the court today and looked like his old self.

Rose looked like himself last season for all of 10 games before he suffered another season-ending injury. How he looks now isn't relevant; what matters is if he can make it through an 82+ game season and the jury is still out on that. There are no such issues surrounding Howard's and Harden's health, so if the Bulls push their luck and gut the rest of their team, I suspect Melo goes to Houston, regardless of Howard's pitch.

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

RonRon wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Have people really looked at the numbers of this?

Let's say the amnesty Boozer and trade Dunleavy plus Toney Snell; that puts there cap around 41.4M. Those moves alone create space.

That saves them $21.2 million and puts the cap at the $41.4 million you're suggesting. BUT, you're not factoring in the cap holds for their vacant roster spots and the cap hold for their 1st round picks. With Carlos Boozer, Mike Dunleavy and Tony Snell gone, the Bulls would only have 5 guys under contract; each vacant spot is $500,000 and there are 10 vacant roster spots which would result in a $5 million cap hold. On top of that, the 16th and 19th picks should each make about $1.75 million in their first year, times 2, would be a little more than a $3 million cap hold. You add those two cap holds together and deduct it from the $21.2 million that they are below the cap and the Bulls would only have $13 million to offer Melo in his first year. The worst part is that after they sign him, they'd only have a $3 million exception to sign a player of consequence. And you think that's realistic?

Cap holds are used only up to the 12th roster spot, not the 15th. Teams are required to have 12 players on their rosters. It looks like they could give Melo a 4 year deal starting at around $18 mil if they took the approach Yellowboy was suggesting. With annual raises, I think that would be around 4 years, $80 mil.

Even then, their best offer would be $14.75 million in the first year of Melo's deal, and would only have 5 other players under contract, with no other means to improve the team than a $3 million exception. That's not exactly a winning strategy and if it comes down to that, I think he'll end up in Houston.

You said it was $17 mil earlier, and that was when you thought the cap holds were through the 15th spot. With 3 less $500K cap holds, wouldn't that make the starting salary $18.5 mil?
He'd have a much easier path to the finals in Chicago. Maybe the idea of peaking at another WCF appearance doesn't appeal to him. Maybe he thinks (like with Miami) plenty of good players will sign for the vet min to join him, Rose, and Noah.

That's because I was still trying to figure out all of the working parts involved in this which is pretty dynamic. And mind you, people have been throwing around different scenarios that carry their own unique breakdown financially. That initial figure I calculated for your hypothetical was probably not factoring in the cap holds associated with the draft picks, which you would keep. When you adjust for them and the other factors, it only amounts to $14.75.

CHI's payroll is at $63 million, the same as the cap, so any contract dump would result in cap space. Amnesty Boozer, that removes $17 million; dump Dunleavy ($3 million) and Snell ($1.2 million) would result in them being $21.2 million below the cap hold. But when you factor in that they'd have 7 vacant roster spots that would result in a $3.5 million cap hold and an additional +$3 million cap hold for their two first round picks. Add those two and subtract them from the $21.2 million and you end up with about $14.75 million in viable cap space. We both know Melo isn't signing a first year contract for that. Winning matters but so does money for him. This is why it makes so much more sense for Chicago to give us what we want, none of which has been core to their success or carries any long-term repercussions. Are $21 million in contracts you don't want anyway, Mirotic, Butler and two first round picks really worth more than an All-NBA player, Taj Gibson, Mike Dunleavy, Iman Shumpert (if they want him), your full MLE, your LLE, a player you could get at $2.1 million, another player you could get at $1.1 million and all your future draft picks?

You really think with the leverage we have with CA *close to none*, Chicago would give ALL those players, draft picks, and assets you are suggesting?
I think a lot of your trades are VERY one sided, not even realistic for the other teams, while I hope we could get all those assets, we would be the only team that would pay that high of a price for a player of Melo's caliber at his age
Our best chance in getting maximum value for CA was during last seasons deadline or prior, when we did have some leverage, but not after the horrible year we had last year in addition to his age and contract CA insist on acquiring

While I agree with you that the owner is CHEAP in Chicago, they will not give up the farm unless it is Lebron James or Kevin Durant, definitely not for CA at his age
They would much rather AMNESTY Boozer (while another team WILL PICK up his contract as a 1 year rental)
Make small trades like they did with Korver to get rid of Dunleavy and probably would even look to trade Derrick Rose before they give us all those assets for CA
If they traded ALL THOSE assets for CA, it would defeat the purpose, leaving little to NO talent on their roster in order to contend

I like Taj Gibson a lot, however, we are preserving cap space in HOPES of a future trio or at least 2x FRANCHISE ALL STAR's
And Gibson's contract in addition to all of the contracts of all of our contracts in 2015, it would limit our chances in landing a trio or 2 ALL STAR type talents
I think we would look to move him if we do acquire him, though I think Chicago would be looking to keep him as their PF/C, even possibly start him along unless Tony Snell makes a huge progress towards being similar to Kawaii Leanard that they hoped when they drafted him

Only Dolan is stupid and ignorant enough to think that would allow them to get *better* along with many Knick fans'

And you can only have the LLE if you are under the cap, able to use it every other year, they last used it on Belineli 2 seasons ago
If they are over the cap which is estimated to be 5m over, they would either have the full 5m + MLE or 3.2m MLE but NOT both the MLE and LLE

If Chicago doesn't want to indulge our requests, then they can kick rocks. Like I've said a dozen times already, they'd need to dump more than half their roster and would basically be rolling into next season with Derrick Rose (if he is even healthy), Joakim Noah, Melo, a player paid $3 million/yr and some minimum salaried dudes.

More likely than not, Melo realizes how impractical that team is and takes his services to Houston, where he will be able to sign there outright (when dump trade Lin and Asik) AND maintain a supporting cast around him that are pretty good and still on their rookie/minimum deals (see Terrence Jones, Patrick Beverly, Jordan Hamilton, Chandler Parsons, etc.). Quite frankly, I'd prefer Melo walk to Houston than have the Bulls give us a bull**** draft pick for the privilege of paying Carlos Boozer.

I think Melo sees Chicago as a place that has a better chance of winning. He obviously has a lot of respect for Thibs. He probably knows that Houston isn't winning anything with McHale running things. Also, didn't Howard say he wasn't going to reach out to any of the big name free agents. Noah has been recruiting Melo. I see him going to Chicago and being the missing piece for them if they are healthy. There was a report that Rose was back on the court today and looked like his old self.

knicks1248 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

RonRon wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Have people really looked at the numbers of this?

Let's say the amnesty Boozer and trade Dunleavy plus Toney Snell; that puts there cap around 41.4M. Those moves alone create space.

That saves them $21.2 million and puts the cap at the $41.4 million you're suggesting. BUT, you're not factoring in the cap holds for their vacant roster spots and the cap hold for their 1st round picks. With Carlos Boozer, Mike Dunleavy and Tony Snell gone, the Bulls would only have 5 guys under contract; each vacant spot is $500,000 and there are 10 vacant roster spots which would result in a $5 million cap hold. On top of that, the 16th and 19th picks should each make about $1.75 million in their first year, times 2, would be a little more than a $3 million cap hold. You add those two cap holds together and deduct it from the $21.2 million that they are below the cap and the Bulls would only have $13 million to offer Melo in his first year. The worst part is that after they sign him, they'd only have a $3 million exception to sign a player of consequence. And you think that's realistic?

Cap holds are used only up to the 12th roster spot, not the 15th. Teams are required to have 12 players on their rosters. It looks like they could give Melo a 4 year deal starting at around $18 mil if they took the approach Yellowboy was suggesting. With annual raises, I think that would be around 4 years, $80 mil.

Even then, their best offer would be $14.75 million in the first year of Melo's deal, and would only have 5 other players under contract, with no other means to improve the team than a $3 million exception. That's not exactly a winning strategy and if it comes down to that, I think he'll end up in Houston.

You said it was $17 mil earlier, and that was when you thought the cap holds were through the 15th spot. With 3 less $500K cap holds, wouldn't that make the starting salary $18.5 mil?
He'd have a much easier path to the finals in Chicago. Maybe the idea of peaking at another WCF appearance doesn't appeal to him. Maybe he thinks (like with Miami) plenty of good players will sign for the vet min to join him, Rose, and Noah.

That's because I was still trying to figure out all of the working parts involved in this which is pretty dynamic. And mind you, people have been throwing around different scenarios that carry their own unique breakdown financially. That initial figure I calculated for your hypothetical was probably not factoring in the cap holds associated with the draft picks, which you would keep. When you adjust for them and the other factors, it only amounts to $14.75.

CHI's payroll is at $63 million, the same as the cap, so any contract dump would result in cap space. Amnesty Boozer, that removes $17 million; dump Dunleavy ($3 million) and Snell ($1.2 million) would result in them being $21.2 million below the cap hold. But when you factor in that they'd have 7 vacant roster spots that would result in a $3.5 million cap hold and an additional +$3 million cap hold for their two first round picks. Add those two and subtract them from the $21.2 million and you end up with about $14.75 million in viable cap space. We both know Melo isn't signing a first year contract for that. Winning matters but so does money for him. This is why it makes so much more sense for Chicago to give us what we want, none of which has been core to their success or carries any long-term repercussions. Are $21 million in contracts you don't want anyway, Mirotic, Butler and two first round picks really worth more than an All-NBA player, Taj Gibson, Mike Dunleavy, Iman Shumpert (if they want him), your full MLE, your LLE, a player you could get at $2.1 million, another player you could get at $1.1 million and all your future draft picks?

You really think with the leverage we have with CA *close to none*, Chicago would give ALL those players, draft picks, and assets you are suggesting?
I think a lot of your trades are VERY one sided, not even realistic for the other teams, while I hope we could get all those assets, we would be the only team that would pay that high of a price for a player of Melo's caliber at his age
Our best chance in getting maximum value for CA was during last seasons deadline or prior, when we did have some leverage, but not after the horrible year we had last year in addition to his age and contract CA insist on acquiring

While I agree with you that the owner is CHEAP in Chicago, they will not give up the farm unless it is Lebron James or Kevin Durant, definitely not for CA at his age
They would much rather AMNESTY Boozer (while another team WILL PICK up his contract as a 1 year rental)
Make small trades like they did with Korver to get rid of Dunleavy and probably would even look to trade Derrick Rose before they give us all those assets for CA
If they traded ALL THOSE assets for CA, it would defeat the purpose, leaving little to NO talent on their roster in order to contend

I like Taj Gibson a lot, however, we are preserving cap space in HOPES of a future trio or at least 2x FRANCHISE ALL STAR's
And Gibson's contract in addition to all of the contracts of all of our contracts in 2015, it would limit our chances in landing a trio or 2 ALL STAR type talents
I think we would look to move him if we do acquire him, though I think Chicago would be looking to keep him as their PF/C, even possibly start him along unless Tony Snell makes a huge progress towards being similar to Kawaii Leanard that they hoped when they drafted him

Only Dolan is stupid and ignorant enough to think that would allow them to get *better* along with many Knick fans'

And you can only have the LLE if you are under the cap, able to use it every other year, they last used it on Belineli 2 seasons ago
If they are over the cap which is estimated to be 5m over, they would either have the full 5m + MLE or 3.2m MLE but NOT both the MLE and LLE

If Chicago doesn't want to indulge our requests, then they can kick rocks. Like I've said a dozen times already, they'd need to dump more than half their roster and would basically be rolling into next season with Derrick Rose (if he is even healthy), Joakim Noah, Melo, a player paid $3 million/yr and some minimum salaried dudes.

More likely than not, Melo realizes how impractical that team is and takes his services to Houston, where he will be able to sign there outright (when dump trade Lin and Asik) AND maintain a supporting cast around him that are pretty good and still on their rookie/minimum deals (see Terrence Jones, Patrick Beverly, Jordan Hamilton, Chandler Parsons, etc.). Quite frankly, I'd prefer Melo walk to Houston than have the Bulls give us a bull**** draft pick for the privilege of paying Carlos Boozer.

I think Melo sees Chicago as a place that has a better chance of winning. He obviously has a lot of respect for Thibs. He probably knows that Houston isn't winning anything with McHale running things. Also, didn't Howard say he wasn't going to reach out to any of the big name free agents. Noah has been recruiting Melo. I see him going to Chicago and being the missing piece for them if they are healthy. There was a report that Rose was back on the court today and looked like his old self.

Chicago would be better off trying to dump Rose

Finally somebody that makes sense, theres no way in hell that you get a ball hog pg like rose and ball hog like melo and think that make sense.

Thats like KD and Westbrook, Payton and Kemp, Marbury and who ever, Iverson and whoever. IT will never, ever, ever work. It's a team sport, ball hogs win a few playoff games..