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Would Melo be the first star player?
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newyorknewyork
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5/5/2014  5:13 PM
dk7th wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Dirk is hands down better then Carmelo Anthony. But that's not what the thread is about. Its about the unique situation of a star player taking less money without a winning core has been established.

then why did he force his way here and in the process set the knicks back several years? was it to win or make money? are we going to not hold him in the least bit accountable for this fiasco? is he an innocent victim? has he not already made

2003-04	Denver Nuggets	NBA	$3,229,200
2004-05	Denver Nuggets	NBA	$3,471,360
2005-06	Denver Nuggets	NBA	$3,713,640
2006-07	Denver Nuggets	NBA	$4,694,041
2007-08	Denver Nuggets	NBA	$13,041,250
2008-09	Denver Nuggets	NBA	$14,410,581
2009-10	Denver Nuggets	NBA	$15,779,912
2010-11	New York Knicks	NBA	$17,149,243
2011-12	New York Knicks	NBA	$18,518,574
2012-13	New York Knicks	NBA	$19,450,000
2013-14	New York Knicks	NBA	$22,407,474
Career	(may be incomplete)    $135,865,275

we had a young core and a scrubby point guard on a two-year contract. a 28-26 record. lin might not have fallen into our laps but we had picks, we had space. knowing what we know now, do you still think the trade was a good idea? edit: forgot to mention-- melo was utterly redundant with amare already here and you could see a mile away they would not mesh. title teams have players that fit together.

The thread wasn't mean't to make Melo out to be a charity case or victim or anything like that. As I stated already Melo is only set to make as much as he is because he has been in the league so long so him taking a pay cut isn't that crazy. But at the same time I have never seen a player take less money before a core was established and wanted to know if he would be the first.

But to answer your questions, Melo didn't do anything to the Knicks and to believe he did is a very immature way of looking at things. Look at Knicks trade history and tell me its because of Carmelo Anthony that the trade went the way it did. Walsh gave up a lottery pick(Jordan Hill) and our 2012 draft pick(Royce White) to dump Jeffries and save an extra 9mil which turned into Raymond Felton(That horrible PG you were talking about) . Knicks management chose to make the trade. Just like Knicks management chose to sign Amare to an uninsured contract that nobody else was offering him.

Did the Knicks not have:

Billups expiring contract?
An amnesty to use on Amare?
Tony Douglas, Iman Shumpert, Laundry Fields as flexible pieces to interchange for better fits?
Mid level exceptions to use on complimentary role players?

Knicks had plenty of options after the trade and lockout.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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gunsnewing
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5/5/2014  5:29 PM
TKF Mitch Richmond, glen rice and glen Robison didn't make that list?
newyorknewyork
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5/5/2014  5:30 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
tkf wrote:
holfresh wrote:
tkf wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:dirk had been a first team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011

if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.

only greed and ego will make him want more.


If melo 'sacrifices' like dirk he has to get 21 mil to net the same as dirk because if ny/NYC income tax.

dirk is head and shoulders better than melo-- that's why i listed the all-nba awards, of which there is a predominance of 1st and 2nd team elections. the mvp means nothing so i did not include it. dirk was also homegrown, was willing to stay with the team that drafted him.

2008-09	Dallas Mavericks	NBA	$18,077,904
2009-10	Dallas Mavericks	NBA	$19,795,714
2010-11	Dallas Mavericks	NBA	$17,278,618
2011-12	Dallas Mavericks	NBA	$19,092,873
2012-13	Dallas Mavericks	NBA	$20,907,128
2013-14	Dallas Mavericks	NBA	$22,721,381

hence, melo should have stayed with denver instead of creating a worse situation for himself through greed and ego. if he wants to make amends and is serious about remaining a knick he should undo the damage he did and stay in new york for 12-14 million.

2010-11	New York Knicks	NBA	$17,149,243
2011-12	New York Knicks	NBA	$18,518,574
2012-13	New York Knicks	NBA	$19,450,000
2013-14	New York Knicks	NBA	$22,407,474

melo is merely two-thirds the player that nowitzki is. a few people may want to argue this point by denigrating nowitzki somehow. this is the usual tactic used to somehow put lipstick on a pig.

two-thirds of dirk's title year salary is 11-12 million. this is the range that is fair for melo, although 12-14 million is hold-your-nose doable. you start asking for more than that and it's really a non-starter for the knicks.

so simple.

Dirk is no longer the player he once was, he isn't even the best player on his team...Dirk is 5 years older than Melo but has had a better career than Melo thus far...He has also played with better players...You stated that Dirk "sacrificed", when and where??...

Why do you think Melo need to make amends to you???..Why would Melo take 12-14 mil from the Knicks, when Chicago is ready to offer him 19 mil per???

dirk had tyson chandler, so did carmelo, you act as if dirk was playing with a all world cast.. Dirk is/ was a better player than carmelo by a good margin, his ability to hit clutch shots, his leadership, and overall game, allowed him to have more success... the end...

Tyson Chandler of today is not the same Tyson Chandler 4 years ago...Jason Terry was much better than JR..JKidd 4 years ago versus Felton...JJ Barea versus Pablo??..Marion of 4 years ago versus today's Amare...Caron Butler versus who???..Couple of other guys I'm missing...

chandler was DPOY in NY, am I correct?

JR smith was 6th man, am i correct?

dallas had neither with dirk..


I think Tyson is the only Knick I remember in a long time who's actually less valued by his hometown fans than the rest of the league. Even when he was at the DPOY all-star level, his hometown fans were the only ones who didn't like him. Usually you see the opposite bias with hometown fans.

Dirk's cast was all world, supporting cast isn't based on how many stars are playing together as have been proven over and over again. The quality of the cast is how well they compliment each other and how well they do in critical moments.

Chandler as DPOY and Jr Smith as 6th man are regular season award which the Knicks finished with 54 wins and 2nd place in the EC.

During the playoffs was Tyson DPOY caliber? Was Jr Smith 6th man of the year caliber?

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LegendaryKnicks
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5/5/2014  5:54 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Chandler as DPOY and Jr Smith as 6th man are regular season award which the Knicks finished with 54 wins and 2nd place in the EC.

During the playoffs was Tyson DPOY caliber? Was Jr Smith 6th man of the year caliber?

Bingo. Regular season awards =/= playoffs. Dirk was playing with guys like Jerry Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Erick Dampier, Devin Harris, Josh Howard, all-star level Jason Kidd(even though he was old, he still played very well) Most of those guys were veterans who were made for the playoffs, who have been in years of battles in the playoffs. When JR Smith is one of your heralded pieces, you can't even begin to compare with what Dirk has had to work with and been given.
Uptown
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5/5/2014  8:11 PM
LegendaryKnicks wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Chandler as DPOY and Jr Smith as 6th man are regular season award which the Knicks finished with 54 wins and 2nd place in the EC.

During the playoffs was Tyson DPOY caliber? Was Jr Smith 6th man of the year caliber?

Bingo. Regular season awards =/= playoffs. Dirk was playing with guys like Jerry Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Erick Dampier, Devin Harris, Josh Howard, all-star level Jason Kidd(even though he was old, he still played very well) Most of those guys were veterans who were made for the playoffs, who have been in years of battles in the playoffs. When JR Smith is one of your heralded pieces, you can't even begin to compare with what Dirk has had to work with and been given.

To add to that, when's the last time a successful team had their 6th man as their 2ND Best Player? A step further, when has a really successful team have JR Smith as their second best player? These black and white arguments are juvenile. Since Melo played with the 6th man of the year (not another HOF like most champions play with) but a 6th man of the year and a defensive player of the year and he's supposed to be more successful in last years playoffs? What about the rest of the squad that really wasn't that good? What about the fact that the Pacers had a flat-out better roster? How about Vogel out coaching our coach? Do any of those points have any room in the argument?
Silverfuel
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5/5/2014  8:47 PM
People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
sidsanders
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5/5/2014  9:56 PM
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

didnt he himself say he would take less if it would help make the team better? if he stayed...

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
TeamBall
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5/5/2014  9:59 PM
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

Ehh...I want Melo to take less and I have no problem with him at all. Do I think he *should*? Only if he wants a good chance at winning in NY. There's a difference between looking at Melo objectively and having an irrational hatred for him. It's usually pretty easy to tell the difference.
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
dk7th
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5/5/2014  10:05 PM
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

i don't like his game. he is not a winner. even if i thought he was a good person i would still not like his game. i felt the same way about jamal crawford. i thought he was personable but once he got on the court he annoyed me.

it just makes it worse that melo is also conceited, oblivious, greedy, and selfish.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Uptown
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5/5/2014  10:15 PM
dk7th wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

i don't like his game. he is not a winner. even if i thought he was a good person i would still not like his game. i felt the same way about jamal crawford. i thought he was personable but once he got on the court he annoyed me.

it just makes it worse that melo is also conceited, oblivious, greedy, and selfish.

Are contractually obligated by ultimateknicks.com to call Melo greedy and selfish in every single thread you jump in, regardless of title? I swear, I think you called Melo greedy and selfish (among other amussing names that you have for him) in 19 of the 20 threads that are on the first page.....I'm sure there are dozens of other threads where you call him names on pages 2-50 but I do not have the time to search....In closing...DUDE WE GET IT!!!!!!
mreinman
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5/5/2014  10:18 PM
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

i don't like his game. he is not a winner. even if i thought he was a good person i would still not like his game. i felt the same way about jamal crawford. i thought he was personable but once he got on the court he annoyed me.

it just makes it worse that melo is also conceited, oblivious, greedy, and selfish.

Are contractually obligated by ultimateknicks.com to call Melo greedy and selfish in every single thread you jump in, regardless of title? I swear, I think you called Melo greedy and selfish (among other amussing names that you have for him) in 19 of the 20 threads that are on the first page.....I'm sure there are dozens of other threads where you call him names on pages 2-50 but I do not have the time to search....In closing...DUDE WE GET IT!!!!!!

+999999999PIG9999999999999999999999MELOLOSER9999999999999TITS9999999999999FAT9999999999999999

so here is what phil is thinking ....
dk7th
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5/5/2014  11:11 PM
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

i don't like his game. he is not a winner. even if i thought he was a good person i would still not like his game. i felt the same way about jamal crawford. i thought he was personable but once he got on the court he annoyed me.

it just makes it worse that melo is also conceited, oblivious, greedy, and selfish.

Are contractually obligated by ultimateknicks.com to call Melo greedy and selfish in every single thread you jump in, regardless of title? I swear, I think you called Melo greedy and selfish (among other amussing names that you have for him) in 19 of the 20 threads that are on the first page.....I'm sure there are dozens of other threads where you call him names on pages 2-50 but I do not have the time to search....In closing...DUDE WE GET IT!!!!!!

does phil get it?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
tkf
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5/5/2014  11:12 PM
gunsnewing wrote:TKF Mitch Richmond, glen rice and glen Robison didn't make that list?


rememeber glen robinson won a ring with the spurs... not sure about glen rice and mitch richmond.

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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5/5/2014  11:14 PM
Uptown wrote:
LegendaryKnicks wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Chandler as DPOY and Jr Smith as 6th man are regular season award which the Knicks finished with 54 wins and 2nd place in the EC.

During the playoffs was Tyson DPOY caliber? Was Jr Smith 6th man of the year caliber?

Bingo. Regular season awards =/= playoffs. Dirk was playing with guys like Jerry Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Erick Dampier, Devin Harris, Josh Howard, all-star level Jason Kidd(even though he was old, he still played very well) Most of those guys were veterans who were made for the playoffs, who have been in years of battles in the playoffs. When JR Smith is one of your heralded pieces, you can't even begin to compare with what Dirk has had to work with and been given.

To add to that, when's the last time a successful team had their 6th man as their 2ND Best Player? A step further, when has a really successful team have JR Smith as their second best player? These black and white arguments are juvenile. Since Melo played with the 6th man of the year (not another HOF like most champions play with) but a 6th man of the year and a defensive player of the year and he's supposed to be more successful in last years playoffs? What about the rest of the squad that really wasn't that good? What about the fact that the Pacers had a flat-out better roster? How about Vogel out coaching our coach? Do any of those points have any room in the argument?

and when was the last time a successful team had it's best player not play defense and shoot 40% from the field while taking over 23 attempts? again you guys are looking in all the wrong places..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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5/5/2014  11:15 PM
dk7th wrote:
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

i don't like his game. he is not a winner. even if i thought he was a good person i would still not like his game. i felt the same way about jamal crawford. i thought he was personable but once he got on the court he annoyed me.

it just makes it worse that melo is also conceited, oblivious, greedy, and selfish.

Are contractually obligated by ultimateknicks.com to call Melo greedy and selfish in every single thread you jump in, regardless of title? I swear, I think you called Melo greedy and selfish (among other amussing names that you have for him) in 19 of the 20 threads that are on the first page.....I'm sure there are dozens of other threads where you call him names on pages 2-50 but I do not have the time to search....In closing...DUDE WE GET IT!!!!!!

does phil get it?

I sure hope he does...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Uptown
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5/5/2014  11:25 PM
dk7th wrote:
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

i don't like his game. he is not a winner. even if i thought he was a good person i would still not like his game. i felt the same way about jamal crawford. i thought he was personable but once he got on the court he annoyed me.

it just makes it worse that melo is also conceited, oblivious, greedy, and selfish.

Are contractually obligated by ultimateknicks.com to call Melo greedy and selfish in every single thread you jump in, regardless of title? I swear, I think you called Melo greedy and selfish (among other amussing names that you have for him) in 19 of the 20 threads that are on the first page.....I'm sure there are dozens of other threads where you call him names on pages 2-50 but I do not have the time to search....In closing...DUDE WE GET IT!!!!!!

does phil get it?

What is your opinion of PJax?
mreinman
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5/5/2014  11:26 PM
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

i don't like his game. he is not a winner. even if i thought he was a good person i would still not like his game. i felt the same way about jamal crawford. i thought he was personable but once he got on the court he annoyed me.

it just makes it worse that melo is also conceited, oblivious, greedy, and selfish.

Are contractually obligated by ultimateknicks.com to call Melo greedy and selfish in every single thread you jump in, regardless of title? I swear, I think you called Melo greedy and selfish (among other amussing names that you have for him) in 19 of the 20 threads that are on the first page.....I'm sure there are dozens of other threads where you call him names on pages 2-50 but I do not have the time to search....In closing...DUDE WE GET IT!!!!!!

does phil get it?

What is your opinion of PJax?

Ask him after he signs Melo to 23 per.

I guess we can always blame it on Dolan

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Bonn1997
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5/6/2014  1:46 AM
sidsanders wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

didnt he himself say he would take less if it would help make the team better? if he stayed...


Melo doesn't like himself and will be unhappy with himself no matter what!
mreinman
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5/6/2014  1:52 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

didnt he himself say he would take less if it would help make the team better? if he stayed...


Melo doesn't like himself and will be unhappy with himself no matter what!

I can't believe that he confided that with you, Dr Phil.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Bonn1997
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5/6/2014  2:05 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/6/2014  2:05 AM
mreinman wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:People in this thread saying Melo should take less money are basically saying that because they don't like Melo. They will be unhappy with Melo no matter what. The best thing to do is to put these idiots on the ignore list.

didnt he himself say he would take less if it would help make the team better? if he stayed...


Melo doesn't like himself and will be unhappy with himself no matter what!

I can't believe that he confided that with you, Dr Phil.


He didn't. He confided it with Silver. I'm just deducing it from Silver's comments.
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