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Larry Johnson "Black people should have their own league"
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DrAlphaeus
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5/2/2014  11:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/2/2014  11:41 AM
gunsnewing wrote:That DMV in Wayne sucked!

Saw the great Charles Smith there once

Did you see him try to get his license multiple times to ultimately fail when the office closed?

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NardDogNation
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5/2/2014  2:06 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:That DMV in Wayne sucked!

Saw the great Charles Smith there once

Did you see him try to get his license multiple times to ultimately fail when the office closed?

I see that time doesn't heal old wounds after all, lol.

mreinman
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5/2/2014  2:21 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:That DMV in Wayne sucked!

Saw the great Charles Smith there once

Did you see him try to get his license multiple times to ultimately fail when the office closed?

It closed on his finger 4 times. He should file suit.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
actofgod
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5/2/2014  5:12 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:That DMV in Wayne sucked!

Saw the great Charles Smith there once

It sure did! Anyway, in case of actofgod says it isn't a tax because there the Voter ID cards are free like they were in Pennsylvania, I bet you still had to go to a DMV to get them. Maybe someone on this board from PA can verify. Doesn't seem very libertarian to me to be OK with a notorious bureaucracy like that to stand in between me and my vote, and now I'm "in the system"… is that the real end? An ID for something you do once or twice a year, tops? I'm just saying, it doesn't sound like a crime that gets committed often to me. I think of voter impediments from the past.

I think that the ID cards should absolutely be free to anyone that doesn't have one. Without question. You need an ID to buy cigarettes, booze, rent a car, get a hotel room, travel, get into a bar, collect government benefits or enter many buildings. How can you not afford an ID to vote but be poor enough to get assistance? You'd need an ID to get that assistance. To say that these poor minorities, who are on assistance, can't get an ID is illogical. This is a political fight, not a racial fight.

Also, for every fraudulent vote there is someone who had their legit vote erased. I believe that the system should be as secure as possible. Mind you, I think the real face of voter fraud is absentee ballots. Again, the rest of the modern world uses ID to vote. I understand we don't want to disenfranchise anyone, but we also don't want to disenfranchise legit voters as well.

The book, again, is "Who's Counting". It is a quick and easy read if anyone is so inclined. It also explains why most voter fraud is not prosecuted and why it is difficult to nail down numbers.

NardDogNation
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5/2/2014  6:36 PM
actofgod wrote:
DrAlphaeus wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:That DMV in Wayne sucked!

Saw the great Charles Smith there once

It sure did! Anyway, in case of actofgod says it isn't a tax because there the Voter ID cards are free like they were in Pennsylvania, I bet you still had to go to a DMV to get them. Maybe someone on this board from PA can verify. Doesn't seem very libertarian to me to be OK with a notorious bureaucracy like that to stand in between me and my vote, and now I'm "in the system"… is that the real end? An ID for something you do once or twice a year, tops? I'm just saying, it doesn't sound like a crime that gets committed often to me. I think of voter impediments from the past.

I think that the ID cards should absolutely be free to anyone that doesn't have one. Without question. You need an ID to buy cigarettes, booze, rent a car, get a hotel room, travel, get into a bar, collect government benefits or enter many buildings. How can you not afford an ID to vote but be poor enough to get assistance? You'd need an ID to get that assistance. To say that these poor minorities, who are on assistance, can't get an ID is illogical. This is a political fight, not a racial fight.

Also, for every fraudulent vote there is someone who had their legit vote erased. I believe that the system should be as secure as possible. Mind you, I think the real face of voter fraud is absentee ballots. Again, the rest of the modern world uses ID to vote. I understand we don't want to disenfranchise anyone, but we also don't want to disenfranchise legit voters as well.

The book, again, is "Who's Counting". It is a quick and easy read if anyone is so inclined. It also explains why most voter fraud is not prosecuted and why it is difficult to nail down numbers.

And remind me why a standard state license wouldn't suffice? It's not like voter fraud is some rampant issue.

DrAlphaeus
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5/2/2014  6:39 PM
It is not your constitutional right for a store to sell you booze or tobacco without photo ID as proof of age. The constitution doesn't talk about hotel rooms, which you can pay for with cash and use a false name for privacy. It is a privilege not a right to drive and therefore rent a car. Many people don't need ID for the buildings they go into on a daily basis, and who said anything about public assistance, which I also suspect doesn't require photo ID. A birth certificate and Social Security card are not valid photo ID but could probably get you that. Many American never travel abroad their entire lives, therefore don't need a passport. An 18-year-old high school student, or an old person who might have used a baptismal record as proof in the old pre-9/11 days, may not have photo ID due to very simple logistical issues, like I described in m my anecdote about the DMV being inconveniently located. That was a real issue for me, I know it first hand, and that was in a densely-populated Northern state.

Voting is a right. If someone can't or doesn't wish to have a photo ID, why require it? Why am I signing in the voter rolls for then? That was the method of ID in the time when there was illiteracy in this country and some people made their "mark". If absentee ballots are the bigger issue, fix that first then!

Are you sure you are a libertarian?

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nixluva
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5/2/2014  7:52 PM
A policy doesn't have to be made overtly as a racist plot in order for it to have a negative racial impact. If a law has the effect of disenfranchising an entire group of people that is the key issue. That's how a system can be racist and yet not have a specific racist behind it. It's a dragnet designed to catch a lot of political undesirables. Conservatives don't want the young, poor, women and minorities to vote because when they do they tend to vote Democratic. This is why they don't accept college ID or have wording that makes it possible to stop women from voting who have documents with their maiden name and some with their married name. It's all part of an overall plan that restricts voters and tries to limit voter participation from the groups that they don't like.

The entire point is WHY make it harder to vote when there is practically no voter fraud? The reasons given are beyond lame. We've had the vote for a long time in this country without the need for special ID, so why now? The only time in our history that we had people put special requirements on voting was when they wanted to block Blacks from voting.

DrAlphaeus
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5/2/2014  9:02 PM
But actofgod thinks there is rampant or significant voter fraud. We might just have to agree to disagree there because I haven't seen the evidence that suggests it's not just politicial misdirection, but he's swearing by that book I guess besides that dude saying voter ID was done to help Romney into office.
Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
DrAlphaeus
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8/1/2016  10:57 AM
Pardon the bump, but thought this was an important enough OT thread to update: there has been recent news about the voter ID issue we discussed here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/29/the-smoking-gun-proving-north-carolina-republicans-tried-to-disenfranchise-black-voters/

Today, a federal court struck down North Carolina's voter-ID law, one of the strictest in the nation. In addition to requiring residents to show identification before they can cast a ballot, the law also eliminated same-day voter registration, eliminated seven days of early voting and put an end to out-of-precinct voting. The federal court ruling reinstates these provisions, for now.

Supporters of the law, like North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory, have long maintained that requirements like these were necessary to prevent voter fraud. But time and time again, scholars and legal experts have found that the type of fraud these laws are meant to combat is largely nonexistent.

One of the most comprehensive studies on the subject found only 31 individual cases of voter impersonation out of more than 1 billion votes cast in the United States since the year 2000. Researchers have found that reports of voter fraud are roughly as common as reports of alien abduction.

The federal court in Richmond found that the primary purpose of North Carolina's wasn't to stop voter fraud, but rather to disenfranchise minority voters. The judges found that the provisions "target African Americans with almost surgical precision."

[7 papers, 4 government inquiries, 2 news investigations and 1 court ruling proving voter fraud is mostly a myth]

In particular, the court found that North Carolina lawmakers requested data on racial differences in voting behaviors in the state. "This data showed that African Americans disproportionately lacked the most common kind of photo ID, those issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)," the judges wrote.

So the legislators made it so that the only acceptable forms of voter identification were the ones disproportionately used by white people. "With race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans," the judges wrote. "The bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess."

The data also showed that black voters were more likely to make use of early voting — particularly the first seven days out of North Carolina's 17-day voting period. So lawmakers eliminated these seven days of voting. "After receipt of this racial data, the General Assembly amended the bill to eliminate the first week of early voting, shortening the total early voting period from seventeen to ten days," the court found.

Most strikingly, the judges point to a "smoking gun" in North Carolina's justification for the law, proving discriminatory intent. The state argued in court that "counties with Sunday voting in 2014 were disproportionately black" and "disproportionately Democratic," and said it did away with Sunday voting as a result.

"Thus, in what comes as close to a smoking gun as we are likely to see in modern times, the State’s very justification for a challenged statute hinges explicitly on race — specifically its concern that African Americans, who had overwhelmingly voted for Democrats, had too much access to the franchise," the judges write in their decision.

This is about as clear-cut an indictment of the discriminatory underpinnings of voter-ID laws as you'll find anywhere. Studies have already shown a significant link between support for voter ID and racial discrimination, among both lawmakers and white voters in general.

"Faced with this record," the federal court concludes, "we can only conclude that the North Carolina General Assembly enacted the challenged provisions of the law with discriminatory intent."

In a statement, Governor Pat McCrory said that "photo IDs are required to purchase Sudafed, cash a check, board an airplane or enter a federal court room. Yet, three Democratic judges are undermining the integrity of our elections while also maligning our state. We will immediately appeal and also review other potential options."

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Nalod
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8/1/2016  11:52 AM
Republican party in NC is despicable.
I live here and many of us are disgusted!!!
Redneck rural idiots conjure up all kinds of fearful laws to counter the cities who tend to vote progressive.

Create fear where none existed before. Voter I'd, Amendment one and the bathroom bill.........all manipulative acts.

fishmike
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8/1/2016  12:24 PM
Nalod wrote:Republican party in NC is despicable.
I live here and many of us are disgusted!!!
Redneck rural idiots conjure up all kinds of fearful laws to counter the cities who tend to vote progressive.

Create fear where none existed before. Voter I'd, Amendment one and the bathroom bill.........all manipulative acts.

I spend a fair amount of time in that state... you wont find a more stark contrast from rural to suburbs/cities. I agree.. its pretty incredible. The transparency we have today is the first step. "Back in the day" these things were passed and nobody knew. Now its there for everyone to see.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Cartman718
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8/1/2016  1:30 PM
Nalod wrote:Republican party in NC is despicable.
I live here and many of us are disgusted!!!
Redneck rural idiots conjure up all kinds of fearful laws to counter the cities who tend to vote progressive.

Create fear where none existed before. Voter I'd, Amendment one and the bathroom bill.........all manipulative acts.

You are obviously not the majority because you guys keep voting these idiots into power.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
fishmike
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8/1/2016  2:25 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Republican party in NC is despicable.
I live here and many of us are disgusted!!!
Redneck rural idiots conjure up all kinds of fearful laws to counter the cities who tend to vote progressive.

Create fear where none existed before. Voter I'd, Amendment one and the bathroom bill.........all manipulative acts.

You are obviously not the majority because you guys keep voting these idiots into power.

that was the point of the DrAlphaeus post above. They work to pass laws that ensure specific groups don't vote.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
meloshouldgo
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8/1/2016  2:26 PM
NardDogNation wrote:I could see why Larry isn't going to be a successful businessman. It was an incredibly dumb comment on his part and I expect him to lose his job because of it.

Is that more or less dumb than, Mexicans are drug dealers and rapists, and Muslims need to register.
As far as I can tell LJ want directly accusatory in his comment, it was implied obviously. So if you think he should lose his job, can he at least run for president?

Not defending what he said but in the context of what we are witnessing, his comments were tame and rather inspid.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
arkrud
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8/1/2016  3:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/1/2016  3:56 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I could see why Larry isn't going to be a successful businessman. It was an incredibly dumb comment on his part and I expect him to lose his job because of it.

Is that more or less dumb than, Mexicans are drug dealers and rapists, and Muslims need to register.
As far as I can tell LJ want directly accusatory in his comment, it was implied obviously. So if you think he should lose his job, can he at least run for president?

Not defending what he said but in the context of what we are witnessing, his comments were tame and rather inspid.

I already proposed LG for president in this thread back in 2014 and was called racist for that...
I do not understand how minorities can support democracy so much as they will be surely abused by majority if the majority is so anti-minority like they think it is...
If people will be colorblind how they will discriminate? Probably based on smell...

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
DrAlphaeus
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8/1/2016  4:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/1/2016  4:03 PM
arkrud wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I could see why Larry isn't going to be a successful businessman. It was an incredibly dumb comment on his part and I expect him to lose his job because of it.

Is that more or less dumb than, Mexicans are drug dealers and rapists, and Muslims need to register.
As far as I can tell LJ want directly accusatory in his comment, it was implied obviously. So if you think he should lose his job, can he at least run for president?

Not defending what he said but in the context of what we are witnessing, his comments were tame and rather inspid.

I already proposed LG for president in this thread back in 2014 and was called racist for that...
I do not understand how minorities can support democracy so much as they will be surely abused by majority if the majority is so anti-minority like they think it is...
If people will be colorblind how they will discriminate? Probably based on smell...

Oh no arkrud found us out, guys. We minorities hate democracy.

As soon as we get in power, we will install an orthographocracy. Every thing will be decided via a spelling bee. Watch your back, arkrud!

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
simrud
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8/1/2016  4:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/1/2016  4:05 PM
My personal opinion is sure go for it. If African Americans would like to have their own pro league just do it. And that goes for everything - if you want to be like Jews just do your thing and stop worrying about what others think unless they are actively opposing your plans - then deal with it through internal unity.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
BRIGGS
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8/1/2016  4:40 PM
simrud wrote:My personal opinion is sure go for it. If African Americans would like to have their own pro league just do it. And that goes for everything - if you want to be like Jews just do your thing and stop worrying about what others think unless they are actively opposing your plans - then deal with it through internal unity.

Wow. First off this post should not have been bumped--it was what it was at the time-- a really poor statement by LJ When I see posts that validate what LJ said I have to shake my head. What he said was wrong--its completely divisive and highly obtuse.

How about focus on the National debt better and more affordable education health care fixing the US infrastructure and make the 15mm illegal immigrants and their employers pay some pretty big fines and their fair share in taxes. Worry about white collar crime and drugs. But the divisive sht is boring and has to end.

RIP Crushalot😞
Nalod
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8/1/2016  4:42 PM
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:Republican party in NC is despicable.
I live here and many of us are disgusted!!!
Redneck rural idiots conjure up all kinds of fearful laws to counter the cities who tend to vote progressive.

Create fear where none existed before. Voter I'd, Amendment one and the bathroom bill.........all manipulative acts.

I spend a fair amount of time in that state... you wont find a more stark contrast from rural to suburbs/cities. I agree.. its pretty incredible. The transparency we have today is the first step. "Back in the day" these things were passed and nobody knew. Now its there for everyone to see.

Traditionally we had one democratic senator, and one Republican. Gov. was for years was democratic. Now, lets not forget, we also talking "DixieCrat" which like Lyndon B. Johnson promoted social issues while being a racist SOB. NC had a pretty progressive stature for many years. Compared to other southern states. We have a wealthy fellow named Art Pope who is a Koch Brothers kind of guy and he is pushing a ton of money behind the Right wing Republican. Its pretty pathetic.

DrAlphaeus
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8/1/2016  4:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/1/2016  5:57 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
simrud wrote:My personal opinion is sure go for it. If African Americans would like to have their own pro league just do it. And that goes for everything - if you want to be like Jews just do your thing and stop worrying about what others think unless they are actively opposing your plans - then deal with it through internal unity.

Wow. First off this post should not have been bumped--it was what it was at the time-- a really poor statement by LJ When I see posts that validate what LJ said I have to shake my head. What he said was wrong--its completely divisive and highly obtuse.

How about focus on the National debt better and more affordable education health care fixing the US infrastructure and make the 15mm illegal immigrants and their employers pay some pretty big fines and their fair share in taxes. Worry about white collar crime and drugs. But the divisive sht is boring and has to end.

Well sorry the bump bothered you. But it was solely in regards to the digression into voting rights we had here. I thought warranted a follow up. actofgod flung a lot of crap on the wall about it, and just wanted to finally clean it up.

3 states — NC, Texas Wisconsin and Virginia Kansas — had similar voting ID laws struck down by the courts very recently. So maybe it's a not so humble "I told you so" to a poster who isn't even around anymore. If it's because he went back to being a litigator, god help us all.

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
Larry Johnson "Black people should have their own league"

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