gunsnewing wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

EnySpree wrote:so what if Shump doesn't improve and just plays ok, nothing special....like say Thabo Sefolosha, Tony Allen or Deshawn Stevenson

Even what he brings now with great perimeter D and efficient 3 pt shooting. He is a highly effective role player. His rebounding was very good in the playoffs as well. He is only moveable if you are getting someone clearly better imo.

His handle, creating, pull up, finishing after contact or go to moves when attacking, and health are the areas of concern.

Shump needs to show improvement in all the areas you mentioned. It's a Crap shoot Cuz if he doesn't show it this year, how long are we going to have this potential tag on him? Thabo, Tony, and deshawn all bring what you say Shump is missing. Difference between these guys and Shump is Shump talks a mean game and he has a drive to him, it just doesn't match his game at this point.

If it were me he would be gone. I understand the potential but my patience is really thin

Patience is really thin? Am I missing something here? He has only played two seasons, one of those being a lockout year that he played under a joke coach in D'Antoni without a training camp and it ended by him tearing his ACL. The other year was cut in half due to his ACL rehab, which lead to him starting off slowly since he hadn't played in almost a year, plus he had to regain trust in his knee as well, and the year ended with him saving our ass in the Boston series and nearly doing it again in game 6 of the Pacers series. All that should have been expected of Iman going into last season was for him to regain the form of his previous season and improve his jump shot which he more than passed with flying colors. If you expected more than that then you were being unrealistic.

MDA was not a joke, his roster was a joke..

But ppl are clearly starting to think everybody with ACL tears should bounce back Like AP, There was an indepth article on how AP and RG3 have change the way ppl are looking at acl tears, what they did is short of a miracle. The avg rehab is 12 to 14 month

I tore my ACL before so I know what the injury is all about....

We are talking about pro athletes not some office assistant that plays ball once a week with his friends from high school...

Year 3 regardless of injury should be enough. Do we wait for next year and say well after a whole summer of playing basketball and training the guy learned to to take the ball to the basket....maybe in year 4 he will learn to score on the drive....we trying to win or not?

I'm hoping the kid improves, but at the same time I'm not inclined to wait for a kid to learn how to play, while we have this small window to get this championship with this core group.

And nobody is talking about the kids performance in the playoffs...I'm talking about his play going forward. Everyone has an opinion but can't read. Nothing new in the fan forums

This team is not competing with the heat, spurs, okc, Houston, pacers, bulls and Nyets for as long as Amare's disgusting contract is on the books. We are capped out. None of those teams carry that burden on their cap and dead weight. Might as well hold on to Shumpert for 2015

So guess the regular season success against the Heat and spurs was a fluke. Also I believe the series with Indy was tied in the regular season so that's not a great comparison.

We will see though. Oct 29th can't get here soon enough.

gunsnewing wrote:Eny let's say the Knicks go after Rondo. Shumpert is going to really have to elevate his play and Woodson will have to increase his role. If Shumpert is balling do you really want to give him up for Rondo when you can sign him of a other elite PG outright after 2015?

What if Shump is ballin? If he's ballin then you keep him....Ballin would mean that the dude is back to playing defense, slashing and finishing, hitting the jumpshot and doing some ball handling....if hes still just fitting in and basically fooling around then you trade him....

Now Rondo is one of the best point guards in the league. He might be the best at running a team that the nba has. If the Celtics trade him to us which is highly unlikely, then you tell Shump to leave his knickstape here and we'll see you in Boston.

This is not about a popularity or saving assets for 2 years from now......it thought it was about winning this championship. Someone above said the Knicks basically can't compete with anyone....so why post here? and why claim to be a fan? All guys here want to talk about is Shump and how good he is like he is somekinda mack daddy womanizer that everyone is dying to have his baby.....Are we knick fans or are we fanboy man crushers?

I'm ranting now, but I'm kinda sick of the bull****. Same with Tyson....I gotta hear about his hysterectomy/sex change and how he lost a lot of blood during the surgery that's why he sucked last year but nobody an explain why he sucked in Charlotte and in Chicago and in New Orleans before he hooked up with Paul. Tyson is a 10 year vet that never gets better and has every excuse in the book...and fans love his fluffy beard and suck his sac like he is Bill ****ing Russell.

My thing is get better or good bye...everyone is always on somebody's dick. Where is Channign Frye right now? Trevor Ariza? Landry Fields? There's always someone that fans don't wanna trade cuz they didn't get a chance to sniff their *******s in person.

This is a Knicks fan site....not Tiger Beat or Teen magazine. We supposedly follow and love the Knicks. This team is our team and we want a championship not to suck the sack of some mediocre want to be. 2 years to make it happen before we blow it up again....it should always be about the championship nothing else

gunsnewing wrote:Well unlike those other guys you mentioned Frye and fields. I am a can of Shumpert because he reminds me of a time when we actually had 2way players and guys who were proud to be a knick and would man up defend and rebound etc. he is potentially our only 2way player

I went a little nuts in the last post....i'm just saying he reminds me of old school players too but R Kelly said in a song that his girl reminded him of a jeep....what is real and what is just a figment of your imagination. Shumpert needs to prove that cuz there's a kid named Tim Hardaway Jr that probably could come right in and play. This is not a joke....talk is one thing he's got to improve. No excuses

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:We had Shumpert shooting the 3 well last year Nd Woodson and Melo still didn't get him the ball enough. The. People cry that Melo doesn't have help

you are taking things so out of context it's almost degrading to your posts

how is he doing that, If you didn't recall the the playoff game where shump scored 12 straight points to end the 3rd qtr bring us back, only to not see the ball again..I belive that was game 3 in the pacers series

The context of the argument that Melo doesn't have help is when the Knicks are compared to Durant/Westbrook, KG/Pierce/Rondo, LeBron/Wade/Bosh.

Shump ain't close to any of those above.

and to be fair, carmelo isn't close to Durant, KG or lebron..

martin, to ask for help you have to be of help yourself. Carmelo's numbers in the playoffs are not great, he doesn't have great playoff performances.. lets be real man. he should be the one elevating his teamates.. we should not be looking for shumpert, bargnani, copeland, prigs, beno, felton to help carmelo raise his game..

the reason why westbrook is westbrook is because Durant allows for his game to grow while still being effective himself.

Lebron allows wade and bosh to be themselves while he still is effective..

KG and pierce allowed rondo to lead, while still being effective themselves..

carmelo just doesn't have that mindset, efficiency or skillset to allow that to happen. he plays the only way he knows how..

as someone said, when shumpert scored like 12 straight points... he was then shut out afterwards...

I am not telling anyone they should not root for carmelo, or not like him, that is your choice.. all I am saying is be realistic with what you have....

Westbrook is Westbrook because he is a dominant personality and talent who would get his regardless, same for all the other players mentioned. Melo has given Jr Smith all the room in the world to take his game to the next level, he didn't step up when needed. Same with Raymond Felton who averaged 17 shots a game for the first 28 games of the season. Melo also took a step back for Iverson and Billups when they were brought to his teams.

Shumpert scoring 12 straight points also means he was given at least 4-6 straight opportunities to do so and made things happen. I strongly doubt that Shumpert didn't have the ball touch his hand once for the rest of the game.

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:carmelo anthony's usage rate was highest in the league and the highest of his career. meanwhile his raw assist numbers were their usual below par and his assist rate was 14.1% meaning that another player scored via the assist only 14.1% of the time that carmelo anthony was on the floor.

in the playoffs his usage rate went up to 38% and the assist rate went down to 9.3%.

OUCH

there is a direct correlation-- the numbers back up the eye test. but lets do the expedient and facile thing which is to blame his teammates for not stepping up, running out of gas, or being injured.

Please let us know how Shump's numbers dipped in playoffs.

Which came first, Kidd/JR/Chandler lack of offense or Melo's increased numbers? IMHO Kidd's poor play along with JR's affected the team and Melo's contribution.

shumpert's numbers improved as his health did and in spite of-- not due to-- carmelo anthony.

you raise the good old chicken or egg theory with chucking ballhogs and their supporting casts. i say the guy who has the ball in his hands the most is most responsible for getting his team to gel and cohere. i had the same issue with bryant when the lakers tried and failed in the playoffs until the arrival of gasol and they still managed to screw the pooch against the celtics in 2008-- i believe the lakers were favored in that series though i am not sure.

so if the issue reduces itself to chicken and egg then i stand on principle to break out of circularity: in a team sport you have to be able to play FOR others if you want to have success, not merely WITH others and certainly not ALONGSIDE others.

after this year nobody is going to want to cut this dude any slack or make excuses for him. again, it has to be a strong showing in the ECF or it's time to stick a for in the carmelo era... right?

but let's look at your last statement: it really comes down to kidd. and a team that is relying on a 39-year-old to make it run is in deep doo-doo. it means (1) felton is inadequate (2) woodson does not recognize the value of a player like prigioni which is simply poor coaching and (3) a team that has anthony on it is at a disadvantage because he does not maximize his usage with playmaking or efficiency in the first place. i repeat: he had the highest usage in the league last year. that's a recipe for playoff disaster.

DurzoBlint wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:carmelo anthony's usage rate was highest in the league and the highest of his career. meanwhile his raw assist numbers were their usual below par and his assist rate was 14.1% meaning that another player scored via the assist only 14.1% of the time that carmelo anthony was on the floor.

in the playoffs his usage rate went up to 38% and the assist rate went down to 9.3%.

OUCH

there is a direct correlation-- the numbers back up the eye test. but lets do the expedient and facile thing which is to blame his teammates for not stepping up, running out of gas, or being injured.

Please let us know how Shump's numbers dipped in playoffs.

Which came first, Kidd/JR/Chandler lack of offense or Melo's increased numbers? IMHO Kidd's poor play along with JR's affected the team and Melo's contribution.

there is little doubt to the truth of this. The lack of production from the other guys made Melo's job that much harder. There is nothing facile (whatever that means) about this...its factual. The fact of the matter is that we faced a better team. Don't have an issue with that at all.

you don't seem to grasp the underlying principles of the ultimate team sport of basketball.

you want to talk about lack of production? that's carmelo anthony's entire body of work. his numbers scream "zero-sum" player.

newyorknewyork wrote:Also nobody expects role players to elevate Melo. They are expected to play there role though and not shoot 12% from the field, or grab 6 rebs when averaged 11 for the season. Or elbow an opposing player to get suspended then chase after Rihanna in night clubs till early mourning and end up shooting 33% and 27% from the field. Or go 0-7 in a win or go home game 6.

it's a team game and a team game requires unselfish players and good coaching.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Broke Back mountain

hahahaha what the