NardDogNation wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

it is not possible for those two to help each other anyway. too bad amare can't stay healthy enough to prove that to you and everyone else who feels it is never melo's fault....

Can you just make that your sig? That way you want have to say it at the end of all of your posts. Im just looking out for you.

I've blamed Melo when he deserved blame. I've also said this to you about as much times as you say your famous "its never melos fault" catch phrase. Just because I dont blame him as much as you like, doesnt mean I dont blame him at all.

Lastly, if Amare and Melo played together and didnt work out, I wouldnt ignore it and blame it all on Amare. I'd logically access the situation - without bias - and go from there. Im gonna ask you once more to stop generalizing.

The problem isn't the generalization. The problem is that his template for those characterized as "Melo supporters" is not accurate at all. I regularly defend Melo against guys like 3G4G, tkf and him but I'll readily admit the dudes flaws. To start:

1.) I think he was incredibly short-sighted in forcing his way here during the season. Was Amare suppose to be his no.2 man/help? Yeah but in a league where contenders were wielding a 3-headed monster (Celtics: Garnett, Pierce, Rondo/Allen ; Lakers: Kobe, Gasol, Bynum/Odom ; Heat: LeBron, Wade Bosh; Spurs: Duncan, Parker, Ginobli; etc.), he should've signed here and allow us to parlay those "assets" for another prominent player. In all honesty, he could've forced a sign and trade in the offseason and still been basically making the salary that he is now. I personally think he cost us CP3 because all signs pointed to him forcing his way to New York.

2.) Melo can be his own worst enemy by holding the ball and stagnating the offense. I think this tendency is grossly overstated but it definitely happens.

3.) Despite being a very good scorer and improved defender, he should be a better rebounder like Bonn pointed out to me. Also, he should be a much better drive and kick player as well as more fluent in the pick and roll while being the ballhandler/passer.

With that being said, I think his overall contribution to the team trumps any of his negatives which can easily be corrected especially with more capable players to shoulder the burden/demands of a contender.

there is a substantial gulf between what you think and reality. you can't just sweep away all three points-- valid points-- with an opinion. it comes across as glib and facile.

he is an adequate regular-season performer as his regular-season record indicates and which his fans slobber over as though it is an accomplishment to be an "also-ran." some players are like that... persuasive in the regular-season yet remaining fool's gold come playoff time.

come playoff time, his negatives make him disappear. his floor impact is negligible. had he put selfishness aside and actually gauged his true value monetarily-- around 14 million would have been fair and as a free agent-- he may have found himself in a circumstance where he would have the kind of team he would need to experience real success.

please understand that i am a fan of my home team-- but it likely will end badly for him in new york whether you think he deserves such a fate.

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

it is not possible for those two to help each other anyway. too bad amare can't stay healthy enough to prove that to you and everyone else who feels it is never melo's fault....

Can you just make that your sig? That way you want have to say it at the end of all of your posts. Im just looking out for you.

I've blamed Melo when he deserved blame. I've also said this to you about as much times as you say your famous "its never melos fault" catch phrase. Just because I dont blame him as much as you like, doesnt mean I dont blame him at all.

Lastly, if Amare and Melo played together and didnt work out, I wouldnt ignore it and blame it all on Amare. I'd logically access the situation - without bias - and go from there. Im gonna ask you once more to stop generalizing.

The problem isn't the generalization. The problem is that his template for those characterized as "Melo supporters" is not accurate at all. I regularly defend Melo against guys like 3G4G, tkf and him but I'll readily admit the dudes flaws. To start:

1.) I think he was incredibly short-sighted in forcing his way here during the season. Was Amare suppose to be his no.2 man/help? Yeah but in a league where contenders were wielding a 3-headed monster (Celtics: Garnett, Pierce, Rondo/Allen ; Lakers: Kobe, Gasol, Bynum/Odom ; Heat: LeBron, Wade Bosh; Spurs: Duncan, Parker, Ginobli; etc.), he should've signed here and allow us to parlay those "assets" for another prominent player. In all honesty, he could've forced a sign and trade in the offseason and still been basically making the salary that he is now. I personally think he cost us CP3 because all signs pointed to him forcing his way to New York.

2.) Melo can be his own worst enemy by holding the ball and stagnating the offense. I think this tendency is grossly overstated but it definitely happens.

3.) Despite being a very good scorer and improved defender, he should be a better rebounder like Bonn pointed out to me. Also, he should be a much better drive and kick player as well as more fluent in the pick and roll while being the ballhandler/passer.

With that being said, I think his overall contribution to the team trumps any of his negatives which can easily be corrected especially with more capable players to shoulder the burden/demands of a contender.

there is a substantial gulf between what you think and reality. you can't just sweep away all three points-- valid points-- with an opinion. it comes across as glib and facile.

he is an adequate regular-season performer as his regular-season record indicates and which his fans slobber over as though it is an accomplishment to be an "also-ran." some players are like that... persuasive in the regular-season yet remaining fool's gold come playoff time.

come playoff time, his negatives make him disappear. his floor impact is negligible. had he put selfishness aside and actually gauged his true value monetarily-- around 14 million would have been fair and as a free agent-- he may have found himself in a circumstance where he would have the kind of team he would need to experience real success.

please understand that i am a fan of my home team-- but it likely will end badly for him in new york whether you think he deserves such a fate.

...ain't that the pot calling the kettle black. My first point of contest with Melo is not even an on-court/recurring issue. The remaining two points can be summarized as Melo needing to be a better rebounder and more adept at moving the ball within certain sets. If these are really the only issues you have with him then you are seeking a caliber of basketball player that does not exist outside of LeBron; and even LeBron, a 3 playing the 4, isn't a significantly better rebounder than Anthony, averaging 7.3rpg/41.2mpg to Melo's 6.6rpg/40.1mpg in the playoffs and 8.0rpg/37.9mpg to Melo's 6.9rpg/37mpg during the regular season. Needless to say, Carmelo's shortcomings are NOT fatal issues and can easily be corrected; a fact you'd understand if you stopped sipping the hater-ade.

And even if Melo were to have taken the $4 million, starting salary pay cut you were suggesting, that would hardly have made much of a difference. With that money, you're talking about a role player and our issue right now is a lack of star power outside of Melo. As I indicated before, Melo is partially to blame for these circumstances but let's not pretend that he, or any other star player, can realistically overcome these obstacles with most real contenders wielding 3 or more healthy stars.

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

it is not possible for those two to help each other anyway. too bad amare can't stay healthy enough to prove that to you and everyone else who feels it is never melo's fault....

Can you just make that your sig? That way you want have to say it at the end of all of your posts. Im just looking out for you.

I've blamed Melo when he deserved blame. I've also said this to you about as much times as you say your famous "its never melos fault" catch phrase. Just because I dont blame him as much as you like, doesnt mean I dont blame him at all.

Lastly, if Amare and Melo played together and didnt work out, I wouldnt ignore it and blame it all on Amare. I'd logically access the situation - without bias - and go from there. Im gonna ask you once more to stop generalizing.

The problem isn't the generalization. The problem is that his template for those characterized as "Melo supporters" is not accurate at all. I regularly defend Melo against guys like 3G4G, tkf and him but I'll readily admit the dudes flaws. To start:

1.) I think he was incredibly short-sighted in forcing his way here during the season. Was Amare suppose to be his no.2 man/help? Yeah but in a league where contenders were wielding a 3-headed monster (Celtics: Garnett, Pierce, Rondo/Allen ; Lakers: Kobe, Gasol, Bynum/Odom ; Heat: LeBron, Wade Bosh; Spurs: Duncan, Parker, Ginobli; etc.), he should've signed here and allow us to parlay those "assets" for another prominent player. In all honesty, he could've forced a sign and trade in the offseason and still been basically making the salary that he is now. I personally think he cost us CP3 because all signs pointed to him forcing his way to New York.

2.) Melo can be his own worst enemy by holding the ball and stagnating the offense. I think this tendency is grossly overstated but it definitely happens.

3.) Despite being a very good scorer and improved defender, he should be a better rebounder like Bonn pointed out to me. Also, he should be a much better drive and kick player as well as more fluent in the pick and roll while being the ballhandler/passer.

With that being said, I think his overall contribution to the team trumps any of his negatives which can easily be corrected especially with more capable players to shoulder the burden/demands of a contender.

there is a substantial gulf between what you think and reality. you can't just sweep away all three points-- valid points-- with an opinion. it comes across as glib and facile.

he is an adequate regular-season performer as his regular-season record indicates and which his fans slobber over as though it is an accomplishment to be an "also-ran." some players are like that... persuasive in the regular-season yet remaining fool's gold come playoff time.

come playoff time, his negatives make him disappear. his floor impact is negligible. had he put selfishness aside and actually gauged his true value monetarily-- around 14 million would have been fair and as a free agent-- he may have found himself in a circumstance where he would have the kind of team he would need to experience real success.

please understand that i am a fan of my home team-- but it likely will end badly for him in new york whether you think he deserves such a fate.

...ain't that the pot calling the kettle black. My first point of contest with Melo is not even an on-court/recurring issue. The remaining two points can be summarized as Melo needing to be a better rebounder and more adept at moving the ball within certain sets. If these are really the only issues you have with him then you are seeking a caliber of basketball player that does not exist outside of LeBron; and even LeBron, a 3 playing the 4, isn't a significantly better rebounder than Anthony, averaging 7.3rpg/41.2mpg to Melo's 6.6rpg/40.1mpg in the playoffs and 8.0rpg/37.9mpg to Melo's 6.9rpg/37mpg during the regular season. Needless to say, Carmelo's shortcomings are NOT fatal issues and can easily be corrected; a fact you'd understand if you stopped sipping the hater-ade.

And even if Melo were to have taken the $4 million, starting salary pay cut you were suggesting, that would hardly have made much of a difference. With that money, you're talking about a role player and our issue right now is a lack of star power outside of Melo. As I indicated before, Melo is partially to blame for these circumstances but let's not pretend that he, or any other star player, can realistically overcome these obstacles with most real contenders wielding 3 or more healthy stars.

in carmelo anthony's case his off-court shenanigans perfectly mirror his on-court deficiencies-- he is egocentric, selfish, greedy. that's his way off the court when it comes to his career decisions and that is his way on the court for reasons me and a few others have taken pains to point out. he is a lot of sizzle but no steak, a lot of hat but no cattle. but the way he passively allowed organizations to bid for his services instead of speaking more plainly reveals he loves the attention a little sizzle and a hat provides him. he comes across as vain and smug in his demeanor and his actions re-enforce that impression.

i am still waiting for him to step up and take responsibility for his failure. he never has. when he starts singing a different tune so will i. until then he can cry all the way to the bank with his f.u. money and in the meantime i will speak my mind and be clear-eyed in my critique of his game until he becomes a player worthy of the money and human assets we used to acquire him.

we don't pay these guys to play we pay them to win.

...cool, and the first point still has nothing to do with his on-court play. More importantly, some of the greatest players to play the game were, or have been accused of being "egocentric, selfish (and) greedy", see Shaquille O'Neal, MICHAEL JORDAN, Kobe Bryant, Charles Barkley and Patrick Ewing. Clearly these qualities are not determinants for winning basketball games. These qualities won't endear these guys to people off the basketball court but the sophisticated fan understands that basketball isn't a popularity contest or played for a "best human being" award.

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:you need to lay off the embalming fluid-- i said paul pierce is the superior player because of the skills he has always possessed. this has NOTHING to do with his lottery team years.

Why didn't Paul Pierce use his superior skills to get his team to the playoffs? Did his superior skills fade when Walker left then return when Allen and Garnett arrived?

what did boston have to give up to get pierce? you see boston didn't have to trade to get pierce, therefore that allowed him to get "help" but make no mistake pierce was no playoff flop like carmelo, that is the difference.. Help means nothing if you are no help.... pierce was finals MVP..stud...

carmelo forced his way here ruining any chance at "help" again, it falls on him.. but keep deflecting to pierce.. I love how you make our arguments for us..

His help was supposed to be Amare if im not mistaken. Carmelo didnt ruin that either. Amare just cant stay healthy.

it is not possible for those two to help each other anyway. too bad amare can't stay healthy enough to prove that to you and everyone else who feels it is never melo's fault....

Can you just make that your sig? That way you want have to say it at the end of all of your posts. Im just looking out for you.

I've blamed Melo when he deserved blame. I've also said this to you about as much times as you say your famous "its never melos fault" catch phrase. Just because I dont blame him as much as you like, doesnt mean I dont blame him at all.

Lastly, if Amare and Melo played together and didnt work out, I wouldnt ignore it and blame it all on Amare. I'd logically access the situation - without bias - and go from there. Im gonna ask you once more to stop generalizing.

The problem isn't the generalization. The problem is that his template for those characterized as "Melo supporters" is not accurate at all. I regularly defend Melo against guys like 3G4G, tkf and him but I'll readily admit the dudes flaws. To start:

1.) I think he was incredibly short-sighted in forcing his way here during the season. Was Amare suppose to be his no.2 man/help? Yeah but in a league where contenders were wielding a 3-headed monster (Celtics: Garnett, Pierce, Rondo/Allen ; Lakers: Kobe, Gasol, Bynum/Odom ; Heat: LeBron, Wade Bosh; Spurs: Duncan, Parker, Ginobli; etc.), he should've signed here and allow us to parlay those "assets" for another prominent player. In all honesty, he could've forced a sign and trade in the offseason and still been basically making the salary that he is now. I personally think he cost us CP3 because all signs pointed to him forcing his way to New York.

2.) Melo can be his own worst enemy by holding the ball and stagnating the offense. I think this tendency is grossly overstated but it definitely happens.

3.) Despite being a very good scorer and improved defender, he should be a better rebounder like Bonn pointed out to me. Also, he should be a much better drive and kick player as well as more fluent in the pick and roll while being the ballhandler/passer.

With that being said, I think his overall contribution to the team trumps any of his negatives which can easily be corrected especially with more capable players to shoulder the burden/demands of a contender.

there is a substantial gulf between what you think and reality. you can't just sweep away all three points-- valid points-- with an opinion. it comes across as glib and facile.

he is an adequate regular-season performer as his regular-season record indicates and which his fans slobber over as though it is an accomplishment to be an "also-ran." some players are like that... persuasive in the regular-season yet remaining fool's gold come playoff time.

come playoff time, his negatives make him disappear. his floor impact is negligible. had he put selfishness aside and actually gauged his true value monetarily-- around 14 million would have been fair and as a free agent-- he may have found himself in a circumstance where he would have the kind of team he would need to experience real success.

please understand that i am a fan of my home team-- but it likely will end badly for him in new york whether you think he deserves such a fate.

...ain't that the pot calling the kettle black. My first point of contest with Melo is not even an on-court/recurring issue. The remaining two points can be summarized as Melo needing to be a better rebounder and more adept at moving the ball within certain sets. If these are really the only issues you have with him then you are seeking a caliber of basketball player that does not exist outside of LeBron; and even LeBron, a 3 playing the 4, isn't a significantly better rebounder than Anthony, averaging 7.3rpg/41.2mpg to Melo's 6.6rpg/40.1mpg in the playoffs and 8.0rpg/37.9mpg to Melo's 6.9rpg/37mpg during the regular season. Needless to say, Carmelo's shortcomings are NOT fatal issues and can easily be corrected; a fact you'd understand if you stopped sipping the hater-ade.

And even if Melo were to have taken the $4 million, starting salary pay cut you were suggesting, that would hardly have made much of a difference. With that money, you're talking about a role player and our issue right now is a lack of star power outside of Melo. As I indicated before, Melo is partially to blame for these circumstances but let's not pretend that he, or any other star player, can realistically overcome these obstacles with most real contenders wielding 3 or more healthy stars.

in carmelo anthony's case his off-court shenanigans perfectly mirror his on-court deficiencies-- he is egocentric, selfish, greedy. that's his way off the court when it comes to his career decisions and that is his way on the court for reasons me and a few others have taken pains to point out. he is a lot of sizzle but no steak, a lot of hat but no cattle. but the way he passively allowed organizations to bid for his services instead of speaking more plainly reveals he loves the attention a little sizzle and a hat provides him. he comes across as vain and smug in his demeanor and his actions re-enforce that impression.

i am still waiting for him to step up and take responsibility for his failure. he never has. when he starts singing a different tune so will i. until then he can cry all the way to the bank with his f.u. money and in the meantime i will speak my mind and be clear-eyed in my critique of his game until he becomes a player worthy of the money and human assets we used to acquire him.

we don't pay these guys to play we pay them to win.

...cool, and the first point still has nothing to do with his on-court play. More importantly, some of the greatest players to play the game were, or have been accused of being "egocentric, selfish (and) greedy", see Shaquille O'neal, MICHAEL JORDAN, Kobe Bryant, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing. Clearly these qualities are not determinants for winning basketball games.

name ONE player on that list that carmelo anthony is better than.

and the first point has EVERYTHING to do with the second and third points. if you can't see that then we will have to agree to disagree and move on.

The point is that being "egotistical, greedy..." has nothing to do with being an effective ball player; not to bring Melo into comparison with the greatest sport figures of all time. I can see we'll have to agree to disagree because we'll never be able to agree on anything.