dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:lots of battered-wife syndromers is how you break it down. ironic that dolan runs things and yet he is so obviously a milquetoast, but when you have money it can insulate you from personal defects. dolan is not interested in winning he is interested in putting asses in seats regardless of the actual quality of the team. he also loves stars. and he surrounds himself with yes-men. dolan always finds a way to alienate or force away good people.

the fish rots from the head down.

Going by your logic, I dont see how anyone can have "battered-wife syndrome" worse than those who dislike/hate this team yet still continue to frequent message boards dedicated to it

for me it has been a swing between rubbernecking and being a coroner. i am not in denial like a battered wife is. i am a realist but there are many so-called knick fans who seem to be inhabiting a bizarro world where everything is upside-down and backwards.

when the knicks show the potential for reaching the finals-- hell even a potential strong showing in the conference finals-- there will be justification for genuine excitement. i was moving in that direction the first 15-20 games but started seeing the cracks around the first houston game. since then i have receded back to skepticism and now it's going to take some real re-grouping and leadership to right this listing ship.

look at my signature. ask yourself if the knicks look like a finals-caliber team or even a conference finals team. that's where my point of view radiates from. i am thinking ahead not living in the moment like so many here are willing to do, echoing the battered-wife syndrome of hopes and prayers.

If you have "receded back into skepticism" then you aint a real fan. REAL fans take a loss , and move on and not dwell on it,the same with a win,take it and look to the next game. Some of yall will pick apart a loss like a crow on road kill but they STFU when our team wins. THOSE are not real fans.

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

sebstar wrote:

franco12 wrote:its not just the Melo trade - its every deal made over the last 5-10 years.

This franchise is essentially over-leveraged like a bank - and they borrow against tomorrow for a mediocre today.

Letting Lin go for nothing is just one more example of mismanagement.

Signing Amar'e when we missed out on Lebron - another move that might have been better played by keeping Lee (possibly at a home team discount?) rather than signing a star just for the sake of making a move.

Great post...to flesh this out, we essentially traded Zach, crawford, lee, and two lottery pics just to have the OPTION of signing lebron james and another big free agent. That strategy failed, and all we had to show for it was Amare, who is broken down.

Thats the reason why we had to rely on older talent...not the melo trade. We gave up mediocre talent for a top 5 player in his prime. Get real. The cupboard was bare when melo was traded her, because of the mismanagement of the previous regime.

We got Amar'e, who got Felton and Melo, who got JR and Tyson, who got Kidd, Camby and Sheed. Fair or not, Zach Randolph and Crawford were not draws to other players.

And I get so sick of this blazing hypocrisy and revisionist history. People HATED Zach for his lack of defense. They spent Jamal Crawford's entire stint here blasting him for shot selection and poor defense. People wined none stop about 'Avid Lee' and his complete lack of D. Now they are gods, while people blast the players we do have. Its the same c*** over and over! AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

a boatload of money got us amare, money got felton, money and stupidity got us carmelo, money got JR and money sure as hell got us tyson chandler.. a 3 year deal and money got us kidd, a ridiculous trade got us camby....

Papabear Says

TKF why in the hell are you a Knicks Fan??? Or are you? You hate the team players you mentioned you hate the owner. Why don't you just go be a Denver fan? Jump the ship. I read some of your posts and its a hate thing with you. You really don't like the Knicks so just admit it. You are not a New York Knicks Fan. You hate the Knicks. ADMIT IT !!

why are you a knicks fan? or are you? start with the owner on down.. you defend this team at all cost.... you like herb williams, dolan? all the trades? salary position.... future outlook? break it down for me...

lots of battered-wife syndromers is how you break it down. ironic that dolan runs things and yet he is so obviously a milquetoast, but when you have money it can insulate you from personal defects. dolan is not interested in winning he is interested in putting asses in seats regardless of the actual quality of the team. he also loves stars. and he surrounds himself with yes-men. dolan always finds a way to alienate or force away good people.

the fish rots from the head down.

exactly..., it does... i dislike dolan as much as I do the maloofs.. the NBA just found a way to get those clowns out of town. now time to work on this fool here at msg...

Ironically ticket sales are down 9% at the Garden in a year which the team is supposedly built to win now? Go Figure

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think it was Dolan's idea to get Lebron. Walsh said the media and fans started talking about Lebron's upcoming free agency and he figured why not go in on it

Show me this quote from Walsh.

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

sebstar wrote:

franco12 wrote:its not just the Melo trade - its every deal made over the last 5-10 years.

This franchise is essentially over-leveraged like a bank - and they borrow against tomorrow for a mediocre today.

Letting Lin go for nothing is just one more example of mismanagement.

Signing Amar'e when we missed out on Lebron - another move that might have been better played by keeping Lee (possibly at a home team discount?) rather than signing a star just for the sake of making a move.

Great post...to flesh this out, we essentially traded Zach, crawford, lee, and two lottery pics just to have the OPTION of signing lebron james and another big free agent. That strategy failed, and all we had to show for it was Amare, who is broken down.

Thats the reason why we had to rely on older talent...not the melo trade. We gave up mediocre talent for a top 5 player in his prime. Get real. The cupboard was bare when melo was traded her, because of the mismanagement of the previous regime.

We got Amar'e, who got Felton and Melo, who got JR and Tyson, who got Kidd, Camby and Sheed. Fair or not, Zach Randolph and Crawford were not draws to other players.

And I get so sick of this blazing hypocrisy and revisionist history. People HATED Zach for his lack of defense. They spent Jamal Crawford's entire stint here blasting him for shot selection and poor defense. People wined none stop about 'Avid Lee' and his complete lack of D. Now they are gods, while people blast the players we do have. Its the same c*** over and over! AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

a boatload of money got us amare, money got felton, money and stupidity got us carmelo, money got JR and money sure as hell got us tyson chandler.. a 3 year deal and money got us kidd, a ridiculous trade got us camby....

Papabear Says

TKF why in the hell are you a Knicks Fan??? Or are you? You hate the team players you mentioned you hate the owner. Why don't you just go be a Denver fan? Jump the ship. I read some of your posts and its a hate thing with you. You really don't like the Knicks so just admit it. You are not a New York Knicks Fan. You hate the Knicks. ADMIT IT !!

why are you a knicks fan? or are you? start with the owner on down.. you defend this team at all cost.... you like herb williams, dolan? all the trades? salary position.... future outlook? break it down for me...

lots of battered-wife syndromers is how you break it down. ironic that dolan runs things and yet he is so obviously a milquetoast, but when you have money it can insulate you from personal defects. dolan is not interested in winning he is interested in putting asses in seats regardless of the actual quality of the team. he also loves stars. and he surrounds himself with yes-men. dolan always finds a way to alienate or force away good people.

the fish rots from the head down.

exactly..., it does... i dislike dolan as much as I do the maloofs.. the NBA just found a way to get those clowns out of town. now time to work on this fool here at msg...

Ironically ticket sales are down 9% at the Garden in a year which the team is supposedly built to win now? Go Figure

fewer seats this year until the renovations are finished

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

sebstar wrote:

franco12 wrote:its not just the Melo trade - its every deal made over the last 5-10 years.

This franchise is essentially over-leveraged like a bank - and they borrow against tomorrow for a mediocre today.

Letting Lin go for nothing is just one more example of mismanagement.

Signing Amar'e when we missed out on Lebron - another move that might have been better played by keeping Lee (possibly at a home team discount?) rather than signing a star just for the sake of making a move.

Great post...to flesh this out, we essentially traded Zach, crawford, lee, and two lottery pics just to have the OPTION of signing lebron james and another big free agent. That strategy failed, and all we had to show for it was Amare, who is broken down.

Thats the reason why we had to rely on older talent...not the melo trade. We gave up mediocre talent for a top 5 player in his prime. Get real. The cupboard was bare when melo was traded her, because of the mismanagement of the previous regime.

We got Amar'e, who got Felton and Melo, who got JR and Tyson, who got Kidd, Camby and Sheed. Fair or not, Zach Randolph and Crawford were not draws to other players.

And I get so sick of this blazing hypocrisy and revisionist history. People HATED Zach for his lack of defense. They spent Jamal Crawford's entire stint here blasting him for shot selection and poor defense. People wined none stop about 'Avid Lee' and his complete lack of D. Now they are gods, while people blast the players we do have. Its the same c*** over and over! AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

a boatload of money got us amare, money got felton, money and stupidity got us carmelo, money got JR and money sure as hell got us tyson chandler.. a 3 year deal and money got us kidd, a ridiculous trade got us camby....

Papabear Says

TKF why in the hell are you a Knicks Fan??? Or are you? You hate the team players you mentioned you hate the owner. Why don't you just go be a Denver fan? Jump the ship. I read some of your posts and its a hate thing with you. You really don't like the Knicks so just admit it. You are not a New York Knicks Fan. You hate the Knicks. ADMIT IT !!

why are you a knicks fan? or are you? start with the owner on down.. you defend this team at all cost.... you like herb williams, dolan? all the trades? salary position.... future outlook? break it down for me...

lots of battered-wife syndromers is how you break it down. ironic that dolan runs things and yet he is so obviously a milquetoast, but when you have money it can insulate you from personal defects. dolan is not interested in winning he is interested in putting asses in seats regardless of the actual quality of the team. he also loves stars. and he surrounds himself with yes-men. dolan always finds a way to alienate or force away good people.

the fish rots from the head down.

exactly..., it does... i dislike dolan as much as I do the maloofs.. the NBA just found a way to get those clowns out of town. now time to work on this fool here at msg...

Ironically ticket sales are down 9% at the Garden in a year which the team is supposedly built to win now? Go Figure

i guess there are a lot of haters out there huh? or maybe just fed up fans sending a message!!

cooch2584 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:And AGAIN I call out the Melo trade haters and I get no response. AGAIN,HATERS, you come up with all the trades that you think were made wrong and tell us all what our team would look like RIGHT NOW. Or is that asking too much from a small bunch of yous that keep saying,we shoulda done this,coulda done that,woulda never done this. IM CALLING OUT THE HATERS RIGHT NOW. Sorry Martin and Andrew but this is getting to the point that these guys HATE but dont back up their hate with facts.We all know dolan and its his team and he does what he wants and we all dont agree with SOME things hes done so haters if you were dolan what would have you done different?

Papabear Says

TKF and dk7th where are you?? Answer the man. I still believe you are the same person and I probably would be willing to put up money as a bet to prove it. Maybe let Martin hold it until I'm proven wrong or right.

put your money where your big mouth is.. I bet 2g's right now.. and a forum banishment forever... get martin to prove it I am all for it..... either you sign up now or shut up... you put up the challenge.. if you don't take it now, then you are a real clown.. I accept any money offer on that one.. don't back out....

BUT tkf you still havent answered the scenerio I posted. You can only dance so long tkf then your steps get real old.

it is a silly question, who the hell knows, we could have had chris paul and or harden, who knows.. anything but blowing our load on this guy would have been fine...

it is like telling me It was ok to gamble all of my money away because I can't tell you what I would do with that money in the future....

tkf wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:And AGAIN I call out the Melo trade haters and I get no response. AGAIN,HATERS, you come up with all the trades that you think were made wrong and tell us all what our team would look like RIGHT NOW. Or is that asking too much from a small bunch of yous that keep saying,we shoulda done this,coulda done that,woulda never done this. IM CALLING OUT THE HATERS RIGHT NOW. Sorry Martin and Andrew but this is getting to the point that these guys HATE but dont back up their hate with facts.We all know dolan and its his team and he does what he wants and we all dont agree with SOME things hes done so haters if you were dolan what would have you done different?

Papabear Says

TKF and dk7th where are you?? Answer the man. I still believe you are the same person and I probably would be willing to put up money as a bet to prove it. Maybe let Martin hold it until I'm proven wrong or right.

put your money where your big mouth is.. I bet 2g's right now.. and a forum banishment forever... get martin to prove it I am all for it..... either you sign up now or shut up... you put up the challenge.. if you don't take it now, then you are a real clown.. I accept any money offer on that one.. don't back out....

BUT tkf you still havent answered the scenerio I posted. You can only dance so long tkf then your steps get real old.

it is a silly question, who the hell knows, we could have had chris paul and or harden, who knows.. anything but blowing our load on this guy would have been fine...

it is like telling me It was ok to gamble all of my money away because I can't tell you what I would do with that money in the future....

VERY OLD dancing tkf VERY OLD.

KnicksFE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Papabear wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Papabear wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Even though the players we sent over for Melo are not playing as well as they did here, the thing we can't forget is that many players play better in NY (and some can't handle it).
What did the pick we lost to Denver turn into? Was that Faried, I forget.

Trading Lee for Amare was a head scratcher and now it clearly looks like a bad trade. At the time, it did appear that Amare helped us to attract talent. The knees were and issue and now we are seeing what Phoenix was worried about.

I am not so broken up about the Melo trade now. Like many of you though, the Lin debacle was just that. You don't let talent like that walk. I can't believe he is only making 5 mill this year (5+5+15 = I take that).

Papabear Says

As much as I Like Melo the Lin project would not have worked with Melo and Lin on the same team. Melo would not like the idea that someone on the team like Lin would be more popular than him. This is a fact. That's why Lin really is gone besides Dolan getting mad and Woody would take sides with Melo than Lin. I doubt if Lin would have started. If Dolan really wanted to get even with Lin he should have signed Lin to the 25 million and then shut him down and by the 3rd year do a buy out and lin would have been a thing of the past. Lin new it wouldn't work in New York. New York believe in hype and would have made it impossible for lin and Melo to play together. There could be only on alfa dog in New York and that was Melo.

Careful comments like that about Melo get you in trouble eventhough it may be true

Papabear Says

Hey I'm not hating on Melo. It's true and if I was Melo I would feel the same way. How can some kid come in here and play six - 8 games and become a hero and I played in the league for 8 years and not get that kind of props. Sure I would be pissed because I am the alfa dog. Not disrespect Melo. If I had a choice between Lin and Melo. It would be hands down Melo. But you know how the New York Press is, they would make Lin a folk hero. Plus the New York press plays a big part in chasing great players out of New York.

100% correct in everything you said about the media and the fans who take them for their word

I agree, but why did we have to choose between Lin or Melo? Why couldn’t we have developed both like other franchises do? Why Knicks management fall for that crap and trade every single pick or young player we always get?
This is the mentality that I dislike about this team, we are lucky that the Lakers actually got in our way and traded for 40 year old Nash, otherwise Shump and god knows what else wouldn’t be here either.

Agreed.

gunsnewing wrote:

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

sebstar wrote:

franco12 wrote:its not just the Melo trade - its every deal made over the last 5-10 years.

This franchise is essentially over-leveraged like a bank - and they borrow against tomorrow for a mediocre today.

Letting Lin go for nothing is just one more example of mismanagement.

Signing Amar'e when we missed out on Lebron - another move that might have been better played by keeping Lee (possibly at a home team discount?) rather than signing a star just for the sake of making a move.

Great post...to flesh this out, we essentially traded Zach, crawford, lee, and two lottery pics just to have the OPTION of signing lebron james and another big free agent. That strategy failed, and all we had to show for it was Amare, who is broken down.

Thats the reason why we had to rely on older talent...not the melo trade. We gave up mediocre talent for a top 5 player in his prime. Get real. The cupboard was bare when melo was traded her, because of the mismanagement of the previous regime.

We got Amar'e, who got Felton and Melo, who got JR and Tyson, who got Kidd, Camby and Sheed. Fair or not, Zach Randolph and Crawford were not draws to other players.

And I get so sick of this blazing hypocrisy and revisionist history. People HATED Zach for his lack of defense. They spent Jamal Crawford's entire stint here blasting him for shot selection and poor defense. People wined none stop about 'Avid Lee' and his complete lack of D. Now they are gods, while people blast the players we do have. Its the same c*** over and over! AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

a boatload of money got us amare, money got felton, money and stupidity got us carmelo, money got JR and money sure as hell got us tyson chandler.. a 3 year deal and money got us kidd, a ridiculous trade got us camby....

Papabear Says

TKF why in the hell are you a Knicks Fan??? Or are you? You hate the team players you mentioned you hate the owner. Why don't you just go be a Denver fan? Jump the ship. I read some of your posts and its a hate thing with you. You really don't like the Knicks so just admit it. You are not a New York Knicks Fan. You hate the Knicks. ADMIT IT !!

why are you a knicks fan? or are you? start with the owner on down.. you defend this team at all cost.... you like herb williams, dolan? all the trades? salary position.... future outlook? break it down for me...

lots of battered-wife syndromers is how you break it down. ironic that dolan runs things and yet he is so obviously a milquetoast, but when you have money it can insulate you from personal defects. dolan is not interested in winning he is interested in putting asses in seats regardless of the actual quality of the team. he also loves stars. and he surrounds himself with yes-men. dolan always finds a way to alienate or force away good people.

the fish rots from the head down.

exactly..., it does... i dislike dolan as much as I do the maloofs.. the NBA just found a way to get those clowns out of town. now time to work on this fool here at msg...

Ironically ticket sales are down 9% at the Garden in a year which the team is supposedly built to win now? Go Figure

fewer seats this year until the renovations are finished

Dude you're reaching here bro.....

Here's Wiki's info for Basketball

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden 19,033

Knicks vs Bulls second game of season(No Derrick Rose)
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278103 19,033

Knicks vs Bulls yesterday(No Derrick Rose Melo coming off suspension
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278254 19,033

Knicks vs Bulls Feb 2 last year(Derrick Rose played)
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=320202018 19,763

Now we know attendance during games is fudged a little but ticket sales down 9% has very little to do with renovation, it has more to do with average ticket price which the Knicks recently hiked up the average price of admission to alarming levels.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7529476/nba-average-ticket-price-increases-first-time-three-years

To a somewhat smaller degree but it will affect overall percentages factor Brooklyn Nets moving to town. 9% of an arena at near 20,000 capacity would be about 1800 seats missing at an average of $117.50/seat.... do the math, do you think in your right Dolan would take those losses. Uhhhh No!

dk7th wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:lots of battered-wife syndromers is how you break it down. ironic that dolan runs things and yet he is so obviously a milquetoast, but when you have money it can insulate you from personal defects. dolan is not interested in winning he is interested in putting asses in seats regardless of the actual quality of the team. he also loves stars. and he surrounds himself with yes-men. dolan always finds a way to alienate or force away good people.

the fish rots from the head down.

Going by your logic, I dont see how anyone can have "battered-wife syndrome" worse than those who dislike/hate this team yet still continue to frequent message boards dedicated to it

for me it has been a swing between rubbernecking and being a coroner. i am not in denial like a battered wife is. i am a realist but there are many so-called knick fans who seem to be inhabiting a bizarro world where everything is upside-down and backwards.

when the knicks show the potential for reaching the finals-- hell even a potential strong showing in the conference finals-- there will be justification for genuine excitement. i was moving in that direction the first 15-20 games but started seeing the cracks around the first houston game. since then i have receded back to skepticism and now it's going to take some real re-grouping and leadership to right this listing ship.

look at my signature. ask yourself if the knicks look like a finals-caliber team or even a conference finals team. that's where my point of view radiates from. i am thinking ahead not living in the moment like so many here are willing to do, echoing the battered-wife syndrome of hopes and prayers.

If you have "receded back into skepticism" then you aint a real fan. REAL fans take a loss , and move on and not dwell on it,the same with a win,take it and look to the next game. Some of yall will pick apart a loss like a crow on road kill but they STFU when our team wins. THOSE are not real fans.

this is nonsense. who died and left you boss? since when do you get to define what a real fan is? tkf is right-- you are the sort of fan that is satisfied enabling incompetent people and losers. you remind me of tammy wynette song-- stand by your man.

Nope, its called standing by your TEAM,something you know nothing about. Oh and I thought I was on ignore with you.LOL