I wish Gallo, Mozgov, Wilson and Lin the best. However, this notion that the Knicks would be better off with them is baseless and not backed by their production since leaving the Knicks. That is just reality.

tkf wrote:

GodNa7ion wrote:

Uptown wrote:How about we live in the moment and enjoy 9-3 in 2012. We haven't had a start like this in a very long time. Who cares about 2016....

its funny guys think in 3 years Melo will be gone, NO, he's retiring a Knick so will Chandler/JR/Novak/Shumpert/Stoudemire/Felton(maybe)

this is our core deal with it

you are delusional.. novak will be gone as soon as his deal is done, hopefully carmelo opts out in 2014 and he is greedy and will want the years so I hope so and I hope we don't match... felton, amare, chandler, JR will all be gone at the end of their deals and as far as shump? go back and do some research and find the last time the knicks ever extended any of their draft picks....

amare will be 33 with even worse knees, chandler will be 33 as well by then.. carmelo will be 32 with a lot of miles, and you think this is a core that will retire knicks? say what?

its a new day and age

Carmelo is our franchise player
JR is his best friend
Stoudemire started it all and will be kept on a cheap deal as long he proves he can stay somewhat healthy
Shumpert is the future
Novak is our shooter
Felton thrives here
Chandler is the anchor and enforcer
Brewer is a maybe but I hope he stays
2013 1st Rounder will hopefully be a stud

what do you expect us to do, just let these guys leave and suck again, just stop you sound very foolish

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:only reason why some of you like to gang up on tkf is not because you find him annoying but because you fear that his assessment of carmelo anthony has more than just a grain of truth.

i have been reading tkf's posts for several years and he is one of the most insightful and helpful posters i have encountered.

so when a poster who has provided helpful insights in all other basketball matters starts dissecting a particular player's game and the assessment is not favorable and in essence contradicts your opinion... you feel threatened. it's not just the player but a philosophy that is at stake.

i never liked his game and i certainly never wanted him as a knick except maybe in a free agency/cash only scenario. that said, he's here and he is the face of the franchise-- and as the face of the franchise he is going to come under scrutiny and his game picked apart.

anything short of a title by next season and the trade cannot be considered anything more than epic fail. on the one hand you guys wanted dolan to go all-in and on the other the knicks were not really in a position to go all in. again this speaks to differing philosophies on how to build a winner.

my opinion is that this is no way to build a winner. why is that point of view so hard to accept?

No title epic failure? Very CUTE! Uh .... when was the last time this franchise won a title and are you saying that with the mediocre team we had prior to the trade, we would have won a title? Or, that we were heading in that direction?

This is called irresponsible posting. I respect your insight but this is complete partisanship.

I don't love a much of Melo's game but I try to keep an eye on the flip side too. And actually, I said that I would not judge the trade until the 3 year point and I won't but I'll tell you that it is looking better and better! Do you actually think they are/should compete for a title this year? If yes, then are you saying that the knicks made all the right moves putting together a contending team? I assume not. You obviously believe that the knicks might win a playoff series so now we/you need to up the expectation so that you can hang on to the thought/opinion that everything that Melo does or accomplishes should be viewed as a failure.

Also, TKF. Its not about his posting, agenda and/or opinions. They are not original on the UK or anywhere else. People should feel free to express any opinion but where does habitual posting stop? How about posting the same opinion every 4-5 seconds? Would that be offensive to you? Or, does it depends on the context of what was being posted every 4-5 seconds?

My expectation is for the knicks to win a playoff series. Anything less - I would consider a failure.

we were better than mediocre at 28-26 and had a plan in place to get better. i believe at 28-26 we were a 6th seed-- could be wrong about that-- and felton was on a two-year very reasonable contract. with d'antoni and stoudemire here the next move was an upgrade at point guard.

and because lebron did what he did i feel that dolan went on tilt and overreacted-- going for piling up talent with absolutely no plan in place. it was an emotional move not a rational one. now did he make the move with the intention of winning a title or didn't he? and if he didn't then what are we talking about

i am surprised your standard for success is so low.

my point is that for all the upheaval the trade has caused the knicks HAD BETTER make it to the ecf in order to justify the trade since the trade was in fact an all-in move... win now or else.

We were 12-16 for the 28 games prior to the trade and 14-14 post trade. We were worse than mediocre and spiraling fast. Brass thought that a move s should be made because that team was heading nowhere.

I was upset that the Nets got Deron and that Donnie appeared to have missed the boat and had no idea that Deron was on the market.

I thought that we gave up too much and was upset that we included Mozgov.

I think I might have been wrong on both counts.

I am also quite certain that the knicks botched up big time with Amare and possibly Tyson as well.

My standards are low - yes. Level setting expectations based on track record is quite important when judging anything.

I think we can win 50 games this year - that is exciting since we have sucked forever!

i am not a big fan of picking a cross section of games to illustrate a point. at one point we were 15-9 at another 22-15. we went on winning streaks and losing streaks. i look at the overall record at the time of the trade, and more important our playoff seed, which at the time i believe was 6th... hardly mediocre although not close to contending status. but that's not the point of that team at that time-- they were not all in and were building for long-term championship aspirations. with this team we are talking about championship aspirations in the immediate future. again, with this in mind your standards are impossibly low! after 12 years of being a joke why should we expect an immediate contender status unless we somehow got lbj here?

unless you are danny ainge or mitch kuptchak no other team is going to do you any favors for an immediate turnaround.

"brass thought a move should be made" what does this really mean other than a facile assumption on your part, or a convenient gloss?

Its not a "cross section" of games. Its momentum, injuries and how they were playing as well as the proposed direction of where they were headed. Was Amare not breaking down?

My standards are certainly low based on history. My standards were even lower in 2010 prior to the trade - living and dying with 3's. My standards shattered when we paid 100 million bucks for a brittle Amare that no team(s) had any interest in. So yes ... I have low standards, but, they are higher than they have been in a decade.

Even after the Melo trade, we were not all in. We went all in by amnestying Billups and signing Tyson! Oh ... and I am sure that MDA was thrilled that we left him with TD as our starting PG.

"brass thought a move should be made" what does this really mean other than a facile assumption on your part, or a convenient gloss? NO IDEA WHAT YOU WANT HERE. Why do you assume that this was a facile assumption? It was blatantly the case.

amare? yes i suppose he was breaking down. to what do we attribute his breaking down? i have a theory and it is at odds with most other posters: he brought his breaking down on himself by constantly going 1 on 2 and 1 on 3. and what compelled him to do this hero ball thing? my theory on that is that he did not have a good enough pick and roll point guard in felton to allow him to score easily. and, because he is a poor passer out of double teams and has no clue on how to make others better, he resorted to the only thing he is capable of doing... which is asinine hero-ball/put the team on his back/beast mode approach that doesn't do anything to improve the team. so in essence he got his and yes we won a few ballgames. but again, as i have been saying since the beginning of the season, it is one thing THAT you win but ultimately more important HOW you win.

and in melo i see the exact same phenomenon... which is why in fact i was against the trade and it angered me so much. your trading talent with no regard for chemistry. and by adding him you compounded the problem. are you confident they can co-exist?

who is the brass in your scenario and what is blatant for you is not so for me. i saw a gm who balked at a deal and was shoved aside.

i see a lot of battered-wife syndrome among the knick fanbase-- we have been abused for so long that most anything that resembles winning is worth our going over the moon about.

NUPE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

who is the brass in your scenario and what is blatant for you is not so for me. i saw a gm who balked at a deal and was shoved aside.

Rubbish

+1
Especially since Walsh has been quoted saying he wanted the Melo trade. But obviously he needs to lie now to ensure Melo hate can continue unabated.

“Either you want Carmelo or you say no,” Walsh said. “I just thought we’re never going to get another chance to get him.”Walsh, 71, left after the 2010-11 season and is now president of basketball operations for the Pacers.

Yes, of course Walsh needs to lie to NY rag newspapers, because that's what he's all about. He's just a stupid effing lawyer tool anyway.

Except when he isn't/wasn't.

dk7th wrote:i see a lot of battered-wife syndrome among the knick fanbase-- we have been abused for so long that most anything that resembles winning is worth our going over the moon about.

Yes of course. 9-3 only resembles winning. It's not real winning. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Can't wait for the consipiracy theorists to start posting how Dolan and Stern are manufacturing this whole thing.

GodNa7ion wrote:

tkf wrote:

GodNa7ion wrote:

Uptown wrote:How about we live in the moment and enjoy 9-3 in 2012. We haven't had a start like this in a very long time. Who cares about 2016....

its funny guys think in 3 years Melo will be gone, NO, he's retiring a Knick so will Chandler/JR/Novak/Shumpert/Stoudemire/Felton(maybe)

this is our core deal with it

you are delusional.. novak will be gone as soon as his deal is done, hopefully carmelo opts out in 2014 and he is greedy and will want the years so I hope so and I hope we don't match... felton, amare, chandler, JR will all be gone at the end of their deals and as far as shump? go back and do some research and find the last time the knicks ever extended any of their draft picks....

amare will be 33 with even worse knees, chandler will be 33 as well by then.. carmelo will be 32 with a lot of miles, and you think this is a core that will retire knicks? say what?

its a new day and age

Carmelo is our franchise player
JR is his best friend
Stoudemire started it all and will be kept on a cheap deal as long he proves he can stay somewhat healthy
Shumpert is the future
Novak is our shooter
Felton thrives here
Chandler is the anchor and enforcer
Brewer is a maybe but I hope he stays
2013 1st Rounder will hopefully be a stud

what do you expect us to do, just let these guys leave and suck again, just stop you sound very foolish

It is exactly what I expect, except i hope we don't suck for long and get smarter with our moves.. history tells us, the knicks don't keep their picks.. what is foolish is that you think dolan will change the way he does business when it comes to selling tickets vs building something sustainable..

novak is overpaid and will be gone.. book it!!!

Felton will be gone as soon as his contract expires.. heck we already threw the guy in a deal already... jeez

chandler, when that huge deal of his is done.. he will be gone.. if not before..

Amare, i love the guy, but I wonder if he will ever play again.. that sucks...

brewer. gone

our 2013 pick you hope is a stud... funny you say that.. imagine had we kept all of our picks..

JR... he will be gone... maybe by next year bro..

carmelo.. Lord knows i hope he opts out....

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

NUPE wrote:

GodNa7ion wrote:

tkf wrote:

GodNa7ion wrote:

Uptown wrote:How about we live in the moment and enjoy 9-3 in 2012. We haven't had a start like this in a very long time. Who cares about 2016....

its funny guys think in 3 years Melo will be gone, NO, he's retiring a Knick so will Chandler/JR/Novak/Shumpert/Stoudemire/Felton(maybe)

this is our core deal with it

you are delusional.. novak will be gone as soon as his deal is done, hopefully carmelo opts out in 2014 and he is greedy and will want the years so I hope so and I hope we don't match... felton, amare, chandler, JR will all be gone at the end of their deals and as far as shump? go back and do some research and find the last time the knicks ever extended any of their draft picks....

amare will be 33 with even worse knees, chandler will be 33 as well by then.. carmelo will be 32 with a lot of miles, and you think this is a core that will retire knicks? say what?

its a new day and age

Carmelo is our franchise player
JR is his best friend
Stoudemire started it all and will be kept on a cheap deal as long he proves he can stay somewhat healthy
Shumpert is the future
Novak is our shooter
Felton thrives here
Chandler is the anchor and enforcer
Brewer is a maybe but I hope he stays
2013 1st Rounder will hopefully be a stud

what do you expect us to do, just let these guys leave and suck again, just stop you sound very foolish

I expect Melo, JR, Chandler, Shumpert and Felton to be here longterm.

Woodson, Melo, JR, Tyson Chandler, Shumpert, Felton, Kidd > D'antoni, Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov

haha, I can understand now why you are a carmelo fan.. post like this, pretty much sums up everything for me....

smh

later..

But we can't understand why you're not a Melo fan

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

Woodson, Melo, JR, Tyson Chandler, Shumpert, Felton, Kidd > D'antoni, Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov

haha, I can understand now why you are a carmelo fan.. post like this, pretty much sums up everything for me....

smh

later..

Why is the later better than the former?

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
simple, I have standards I don't root for losing, whiny, wannabe stars... that is something I refuse to do... case in point, vs the rockets, this donkey ran down court complaining to the refs with his back turned and let patterson get a wide open dunk.. he has no composure.. and of course woodson, woody,the woodman.... the man that is supposed to hold guys accountable, should have yanked his azz off the floor at that point.. as I said.. woodson will huff and puff but he won't blow down the house... and you will continue to see more melt downs like this.... the guy is not a leader bro... can't make him something he isn't....

like DK said, knicks fans have been losing so long, that they will settle for anything that resembles winning, at any cost... dude is fools gold...

And what is sad is that you are so upset with me, even after I have pointed out that the Knicks haven't resigned any of their draft picks in decades.... yet I am crazy.... listen, I know there is hope, but you have to have some basis for that hope.. Like you, I hope the knicks keep shumpert... but I am not betting on it at all. there is no evidence to support that they will...

but hey, you have every right to root for the knicks the way you want, as do I..

I believe David Lee was re-signed once on a one year contract.

they extended qualifying offers to both lee and nate.... they didn't re-sign them....

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
simple, I have standards I don't root for losing, whiny, wannabe stars... that is something I refuse to do... case in point, vs the rockets, this donkey ran down court complaining to the refs with his back turned and let patterson get a wide open dunk.. he has no composure.. and of course woodson, woody,the woodman.... the man that is supposed to hold guys accountable, should have yanked his azz off the floor at that point.. as I said.. woodson will huff and puff but he won't blow down the house... and you will continue to see more melt downs like this.... the guy is not a leader bro... can't make him something he isn't....

like DK said, knicks fans have been losing so long, that they will settle for anything that resembles winning, at any cost... dude is fools gold...

And what is sad is that you are so upset with me, even after I have pointed out that the Knicks haven't resigned any of their draft picks in decades.... yet I am crazy.... listen, I know there is hope, but you have to have some basis for that hope.. Like you, I hope the knicks keep shumpert... but I am not betting on it at all. there is no evidence to support that they will...

but hey, you have every right to root for the knicks the way you want, as do I..

I believe David Lee was re-signed once on a one year contract.

Re-upping on a 1yr offer is not necessarily re-signing your own draft picks. They gave Lee and Robinson slight increases in pay from their QO to not disrespect the agents that represented them, forcing them to play for their QO. Especially since the QO technically represents the last year of their rookie deals.

TKF is saying we have never kept home grown talent with extended yrs contract offers and you know this to be true.

Shump is next, once a sexy starfudge name surfaces

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
simple, I have standards I don't root for losing, whiny, wannabe stars... that is something I refuse to do... case in point, vs the rockets, this donkey ran down court complaining to the refs with his back turned and let patterson get a wide open dunk.. he has no composure.. and of course woodson, woody,the woodman.... the man that is supposed to hold guys accountable, should have yanked his azz off the floor at that point.. as I said.. woodson will huff and puff but he won't blow down the house... and you will continue to see more melt downs like this.... the guy is not a leader bro... can't make him something he isn't....

like DK said, knicks fans have been losing so long, that they will settle for anything that resembles winning, at any cost... dude is fools gold...

And what is sad is that you are so upset with me, even after I have pointed out that the Knicks haven't resigned any of their draft picks in decades.... yet I am crazy.... listen, I know there is hope, but you have to have some basis for that hope.. Like you, I hope the knicks keep shumpert... but I am not betting on it at all. there is no evidence to support that they will...

but hey, you have every right to root for the knicks the way you want, as do I..

I believe David Lee was re-signed once on a one year contract.

Re-upping on a 1yr offer is not necessarily re-signing your own draft picks. They gave Lee and Robinson slight increases in pay from their QO to not disrespect the agents that represented them, forcing them to play for their QO. Especially since the QO technically represents the last year of their rookie deals.

TKF is saying we have never kept home grown talent with extended yrs contract offers and you know this to be true.

Shump is next, once a sexy starfudge name surfaces

Lee was re-upped and/or resigned. You can employ whatever semantics you like. They could have easily let him walk.

As for Shumpert, the SUNS wanted him in a deal for Nash in the off-season. The Knicks refused.

NUPE wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
simple, I have standards I don't root for losing, whiny, wannabe stars... that is something I refuse to do... case in point, vs the rockets, this donkey ran down court complaining to the refs with his back turned and let patterson get a wide open dunk.. he has no composure.. and of course woodson, woody,the woodman.... the man that is supposed to hold guys accountable, should have yanked his azz off the floor at that point.. as I said.. woodson will huff and puff but he won't blow down the house... and you will continue to see more melt downs like this.... the guy is not a leader bro... can't make him something he isn't....

like DK said, knicks fans have been losing so long, that they will settle for anything that resembles winning, at any cost... dude is fools gold...

And what is sad is that you are so upset with me, even after I have pointed out that the Knicks haven't resigned any of their draft picks in decades.... yet I am crazy.... listen, I know there is hope, but you have to have some basis for that hope.. Like you, I hope the knicks keep shumpert... but I am not betting on it at all. there is no evidence to support that they will...

but hey, you have every right to root for the knicks the way you want, as do I..

I believe David Lee was re-signed once on a one year contract.

Re-upping on a 1yr offer is not necessarily re-signing your own draft picks. They gave Lee and Robinson slight increases in pay from their QO to not disrespect the agents that represented them, forcing them to play for their QO. Especially since the QO technically represents the last year of their rookie deals.

TKF is saying we have never kept home grown talent with extended yrs contract offers and you know this to be true.

Shump is next, once a sexy starfudge name surfaces

Lee was re-upped and/or resigned. You can employ whatever semantics you like. They could have easily let him walk.

As for Shumpert, the SUNS wanted him in a deal for Nash in the off-season. The Knicks refused.

stop making up rules, it isn't re-upping of a deal, it is part of the rookie contract, the team has the right to extend the qualifying offer, that is not resigning the player as it is part of the original contract.. it is not a NEW deal, which re-upping means.. that means I am extending a New deal to you... the qualifying offer gives the team all of the control.. if the player refuses to accept the team can, if it wants can keep extending the offer, year after year, and that player can't go anywhere unless that team allows him to leave.... stop trying to be right here.. just admit what it is.. and what does the fact that the knicks could have let him walk prove here? pretty much irrelevant...

As for Shumpert, the SUNS wanted him in a deal for Nash in the off-season. The Knicks refused.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/8130840/steve-nash-headed-los-angeles-lakers-sign-trade-deal
The Knicks were equally high on Nash's list in a sign-and-trade scenario -- he's an offseason Manhattan resident -- and the Raptors were initially seen as the favorite for Nash's services after quickly registering a three-year, $36 million offer. The Brooklyn Nets and Mavericks also pursued Nash, Dallas in particular after the Nets won the Deron Williams sweepstakes Tuesday.

Yet, Nash ultimately decided that the chance to team with Bryant, Gasol and Bynum, the three-year deal he had been hoping for, and the ability to keep a West Coast base near his children could not be passed up.

With Steve Nash appearing all but ready to leave the Valley as a free agent and the Knicks trying to come up with the cap space to match Toronto's offer to the point guard, rumors of a sign-and-trade deal are swirling. And, one guy the Knicks would offer to entice the Suns to deal is, in fact, Shumpert

it seems as if the knicks were willing to part with shumpert, but nash wanted to stay west coast bro... sorry..