mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

Maybe Nash had a lot to do with Stat/Shaq working. Maybe that was why the Knicks went so hard after Nash when it appeared they had their point guard of the future already.

I think thats a good observation. Dude was an MVP PG... so yea, Im sure that helped.

It will be really interesting to see how the Melo/Amare/Felton dynamic plays out. Felton likes to score himself a bit. We know he likes Amare and developed nice chemistry there. If Amare is healthy and there is no reason to assume he wont be expect Felton to get him the ball more. What will happen if the Knicks are winning and Melo is pouting?

Have you ever seen a player even do that?

I know folks don't like Melo, but come on, you think he'll complain in a win, better yet a streak of wins?

Well the Lakers won many times but that did not stop Kobe from pouting

Kobe is MrKnick's barometer. If Kobe does or has done it, its ok for Melo to also. Except of course Melo doesnt win the MVPs or scoring titles, or first team all NBA, or first team defense (or 2nd team for that matter), or playoff games or.... wait... what has Melo won again? Oh yea... a gold medal. So they are pretty much the same guy.

And an NCAA championship.

I answered a question about pouting and winning - read it how ever you want. Melo ain't Kobe by any means but that is not due to offensive numbers. Kobe has a mean streak and a competitive edge that Melo will never have. But if you are gonna bash Melo for his offensive numbers ...

I know what Melo is and I never claimed that he was in the top echelon. However, Kobe ain't no MJ or Lebron. Not even close.

in this generation, kobe is probably the closest thing we had to MJ..

Better than Lebron? REALLY??????????? Why do I even bother to argue with you - what a waste! Yet I still do - I blame myself!

Kobe who aside from defense does everything that you hate - so comical!

Unless you have no barometer and/or have no idea what you spew.

Kobe has bitched, demanded himself and players traded, throw team mates clean under the bus he's driving, iso's to death, takes terrible shots, totally inefficient on offense and only wins when his team is stacked and has Phil Jackson and sometimes don't win even then.

Cheat on his wife on top of that.

Jordan never has lost in the finals, and was the pure definition of efficiency.

Kobe is the closest my ass.

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:tkf meet dk.

Can you two possibly merge? Or, are you already merged?

I personally don't care if Melo is top 5 or top 20. Contracts and player value is mostly determined by the market. What are teams willing to pay for him. For Melo, any team with the ability to get him and/or had the cap space would have jumped and would still today.

As far as Amare, the only other team willing to sign him was phx at 40 million less than we paid. Nice going Mr. Walsh.

Chandler was an FA that was not going to be resigned and Gallo probably got more than he is worth based on his market value.

The pressure is on everyone - Melo, Amare, Felton, Woody, Isiah and Chandler

yes contracts are based on what the market will bear. but what the market will bear rarely reflects cost versus value. in basketball qua basketball value is based on winning games and winning titles. if not winning then cost is based on putting asses in seats.

not every player who is being paid what the market will bear is dedicated to winning. that's the reality here.

That's arguable. Many said that Paul Pierce was not dedicated to winning and then he won. Whatever is being said about Melo was said about PP. Then PP was surrounded with the right players and these things were no longer mentioned.

Melo fought his ass off in the playoffs this year while Amare stayed home, Lin was out and Chandler laid an egg. Was that not dedicated? When Melo lost to SA and averaged 27 points and 8 rebounds on 48 percent shooting, was he not dedicating himself to winning? He had some years that he was excellent in the playoffs and some years that his pct was off. Do you remember when he did not dedicate himself to winning in the playoffs?

With MDA, he was certainly sidetracked this year and I blame him for that.

Was Wade dedicated to winning when he played without Shaq and the team was awful? Was Garnett dedicated to winning as a perennial loser in Minny (on a damn good team)?

Winning makes you look like you were dedicated to it.

Melo needs a PG or a facilitator. He is not Lebron (obviously). I would have loved to see how he would have played with Steve Nash.

once and for all time please stop this argument.. really, it is so tired... those guys are just better players.. no one questioned their will to win, for pierce it was a maturity issue, he was always known as a gym rat.. carmelo has had his conditioning and will to win questioned for years... no one questioned garnett because he put in work, and it showed, minny wasn't a winner but garnett was recognized, with awards, mvp,defensive player of the year, all nba first team... same thing with wade.. they were recognized around the league, their work ethic never questioned..

stop trying to align carmelo with guys that are out of his league.. really it makes for such a bad argument..

you say what carmelo needed was a PG, then he should have stayed his azz in denver where they had a pretty good one in andre miller!!!!!

Winning makes you look like you were dedicated to it.

NO, actually being dedicated to your craft makes you look like it.. and it also at some point will lead to winning...

There goes your tunnel vision and lack of analytical reasoning capabilities shining for all.

I never said that he was as good as Garnett or Wade (I've said numerous times that he is not), its the point of them not winning without supercasts but you are too busy pointing out the fallacies in others arguments to realize that.

Andre Miller left the Sixers during the 2006-2007 season LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL - but I am sure you knew that "He should have stayed in Denver with Andre Miller" LOL LOL LOL LOL. Nice to trade away a guy like Miller for a guy like AI.

I would have loved to see him play with a "SUPERSTAR" PG ala Nash. But you probably did not get that.

Miller was a good PG and so was Billups. Your BS will never successfully circumvent the argument of needing 2 SUPER STARS even though you sadly try to toss names like AI (40 pct for his career), Camby (Superstar?), Amare (LOL LOL LOL) ...

PP was a gym rat LOL LOL LOL - good comeback.

I did compare Melo to PP and believe that is a good comparison. Where is PP's awards? Your argument ... He was the NBA finals MVP. Me ... LOL LOL LOL LOL

2nd and 3rd team all nba is fine for me - I don't give a shyt about awards and could not care less where he ranks as a player.

You amuse me LOL LOL

eh, no biggie, I forgot miller had two stints in denver, anyway melo had billups, that I do know, and if I am not mistaken he also had a young ty lawson.. if he needed PG's he had them there, why was he trying to leave...

PP was a gym rat LOL LOL LOL - good comeback.

debating with you is so easy.. you always put the ball on the tee...

here you go, someone with first hand experience of his work ethic.. the first 37 seconds says it all..LOL

I did compare Melo to PP and believe that is a good comparison. Where is PP's awards? Your argument ... He was the NBA finals MVP. Me ... LOL LOL LOL LOL

in all honesty pierce doesn't belong in the same group as wade, lebron and garnett, but he is mvp of the finals and a champion.. You hang your hat on pierce because somehow it validates MR "17"...in your eyes.. but the truth is, paul pierce is just a better player, and he didn't get star players in garnett and allen, those guys were past their best years, yet he was able to mesh and win with them... while in year 3 we are still trying to figure out if melo can share the toys with his fellow teamates.... not the same bro..... oh and I forgot.. Lol lol lol lol.. smdh

Garnett, Allen were passed their "best" years? You are all over the place! How do you define "best", by numbers or contribution to championships?

Garnett:

2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

2007-08 NBA Defensive Player of the Year

And Allen was still a great 2 and averaged over 60 pct in TS. Now I know that it is hard to compare him to Landry Fields being that Landry was in his Prime .... LOL

Ouch!

"but the truth is, paul pierce is just a better player"

THIS is a great argument!

"while in year 3 we are still trying to figure out if melo can share the toys with his fellow teamates"

I think that what we know in year 3 is that the Knicks have not had anything close to the Boston squad.

Pierce is not in Wade, Lebron and Garnetts category - AGREED - and neither is Melo. However, you just pretty much stated that PP was a number two on this squad - AGREED. How nice is it to be that good and still play with a number one?? PRETTY PRETTY GOOD!

So ... maybe Melo is a number and needs to play with a number one like Lebron, Wade, Garnett or Shaq? Huh?

Talk about a fat pitch!

i am going to make this real simple for you... let me ask. were Allen and Garnett's best years with the celtics or previous teams.. yes, both were still good players, but not the players they were a few years prior to the trade....

this is an easy answer...

you are a typical side bar poster... and I understand, you are reaching.. and when people are drowning they grab for whatever they can.. ok, so lets play your game..

2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

and that is great, it still goes to show that garnett was still a top level defensive player.. but not the overall player he was in minny.. since coming to boston he never averaged a double double, something he did pretty much every year in minny,he was also MVP while in minny.... he and ray allen were still very good players, but not the elite players you would like to make it out to be.. and the only reason, the only reason you want to pump up a 32-36 year old KG and ray allen because it in your eyes gives your argument hope that all carmelo needs is a garnett and a ray allen...

well guess what, if that is what he needs, then why is he getting paid max money? isn't that even more reason to hate this move? if carmelo needs all of those things, then why acquire him? your argument is that pierce needed elite talent as does carmelo.. well we can make that claim for a lot of guys.. which leads me to this question.. if that is the case, what makes carmelo so special.... shouldn't we have gone for the elite guys from the start and if not, just take another route? one which left you flexibility?

thanks for trying man, but again, you fail..

You are really dense!

Garnett was 1st team all NBA the year of the title!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do I need to break out my puppets? If he declined in any way, he was still good enough to be 1st team ALL NBA!! geez! PP WAS NOT EVER FIRST TEAM ALL NBA!!

If Shaq was a max player why did they need Kobe or vise versa? Is Wade not a max player? Is PPPPPPPPPP not a max player because he player with an all world All NBA first teamer which he is not? This is the best you can offer?

"shouldn't we have gone for the elite guys from the start?"

Didn't we try? Of course we wanted a 1 first. Its hard to get a 1!!!!!!!

Keep blabbing jibberblabber ...

mr knickshot... plain and simple, take your tail and tuck it in on the way out.. you have been beaten to hell on this argument... End of story..

Garnett, and allen were not the elite players they once were... as acknowledged, were they still very good players.. yes..... but your premise that pierce had all world players come here is false and you are foolish for trying to sell that point...

but you know what... I will bite, just so I can be done with you.. Ok, pierce had two of the greatest players in the NBA join him.. that is the only reason why he won a ring.. although he was MVP of the finals.. LOL...

with that said....we already had amare, a guy with more accolades in the NBA than carmelo.. why didn't we give amare his KG and allen instead we give him carmelo, a guy who needed, according to YOU.. a KG and allen... LOL doesn't that show this plan was bad from the start? and why so many fans are upset at what happened to this team?

this doesn't mean carmelo is bad, that he isn't one of if not the best STREAK scorer in league. this doesn't mean he is useless, all it means is that dolan had no business trading away so many assets, young players, picks, cap space to get a guy, who needed superstars in order to win and pay him superstar money... we had that guy in amare already, except amare IMO was the better player....and didn't cost us anything more than cap space that we had plenty of...

AGAIN YOU FAIL ON EVERY LEVEL.. PLEASE STOP BECAUSE THIS IS BORDERING ON CHILD ABUSE!!!!

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

Maybe Nash had a lot to do with Stat/Shaq working. Maybe that was why the Knicks went so hard after Nash when it appeared they had their point guard of the future already.

I think thats a good observation. Dude was an MVP PG... so yea, Im sure that helped.

It will be really interesting to see how the Melo/Amare/Felton dynamic plays out. Felton likes to score himself a bit. We know he likes Amare and developed nice chemistry there. If Amare is healthy and there is no reason to assume he wont be expect Felton to get him the ball more. What will happen if the Knicks are winning and Melo is pouting?

I feel like Felton is a great fit with Melo and Stoudemire. Not as good as Nash of course, but better than most. He will be a great leader and great at finding these guys in their spots. We already know he can mesh well with Stoudemire, it's just a matter of meshing Melo and Stoudemire together. Felton won't score 17 ppg like he did in NY at first, but don't be surprised if he is a league leader in assists and really has a great year. I wish he was a most consistant outside shooter, but he can score which is important and keep the defense honest. As long as Melo is surrounded by guys who can score like Smith, Felton, and Stoudemire, it should be easy for him.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

Maybe Nash had a lot to do with Stat/Shaq working. Maybe that was why the Knicks went so hard after Nash when it appeared they had their point guard of the future already.

I think thats a good observation. Dude was an MVP PG... so yea, Im sure that helped.

It will be really interesting to see how the Melo/Amare/Felton dynamic plays out. Felton likes to score himself a bit. We know he likes Amare and developed nice chemistry there. If Amare is healthy and there is no reason to assume he wont be expect Felton to get him the ball more. What will happen if the Knicks are winning and Melo is pouting?

I feel like Felton is a great fit with Melo and Stoudemire. Not as good as Nash of course, but better than most. He will be a great leader and great at finding these guys in their spots. We already know he can mesh well with Stoudemire, it's just a matter of meshing Melo and Stoudemire together. Felton won't score 17 ppg like he did in NY at first, but don't be surprised if he is a league leader in assists and really has a great year. I wish he was a most consistant outside shooter, but he can score which is important and keep the defense honest. As long as Melo is surrounded by guys who can score like Smith, Felton, and Stoudemire, it should be easy for him.

Melo wasn't coming here as a free agent. He was going to get his contract before the new cba so if he didn't end up a knick he would end up somewhere else at the trade deadline. As far as signing elite guys, wasn't that the plan for the summer of 2010. When Walsh/D'Ant struck out on the goal they scrambled and grabbed Stat. Who do you think they should have signed? If I follow what I interpet your definition of elite to be, the elite were either not free agents or turned down the Knicks. I am wondering what available 'elite' guy you think the Knicks dropped the ball on.

well if you don't mind if I chime in... we already took a chance on amare.. a guy who is pretty much on the same level as carmelo.... one could argue slightly better player.... but that is not really relevant..... since the elite players were gone, meaning lebron and wade... then you wait , continue to rebuild.. remember we were 28-26 with amare, felton and a bunch of kids.... not many teams rebuilding with youth, even with a star player manage to stay above .500.. so the knicks were onto something here...

with picks, cap space, young talent, you have plenty of options.. why not upgrade felton, maybe with a guy like andre miller,just think a move like that probably would not cost you much, but could be a huge difference in the win/loss column.. then you continue to probe, keep your ear open for deals.. I mean the knicks were not a bad team, they were young, improving and playing hard....guys like dwight and cp3 at the time were nearing the end of their deals, you just don't know what kind of deal you can facilitate, but when you have flexibility, you have options... but maximizing amare's ability should have been a priority.... that never seemed to happen..

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:I like Joe Johnson

I think Gallo is more on the level of Rudy fernandez than having anything remotely close to being an all-star caliber player.

well you hit the nail on the head I guess.... a talent like rudy fernandez was the center piece of a deal to get the superstar we call melo... pretty much explains his value then...... a guy like rudy fernandez can basically get carmelo.. that should cement in your minds that no one really thinks much of melo then...

even in an attempt to be sarcastic.... it ends up in epic fail..

We had to throw in Mozgov and take on Billups just to persuade them.

Our package was garbage compared to others.

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:I like Joe Johnson

I think Gallo is more on the level of Rudy fernandez than having anything remotely close to being an all-star caliber player.

well you hit the nail on the head I guess.... a talent like rudy fernandez was the center piece of a deal to get the superstar we call melo... pretty much explains his value then...... a guy like rudy fernandez can basically get carmelo.. that should cement in your minds that no one really thinks much of melo then...

even in an attempt to be sarcastic.... it ends up in epic fail..

Actually Denver was on record not wanting Gallo.

We had to throw in Mozgov and take on Billups just to persuade them.

Our package was garbage compared to others.

and the knicks were on record not wanting to trade gallo in this deal...

fact is, deal was done and denver quickly extended gallo...for a team that didn't want him they sure wasted no time re-upping him.. LOL

as far as moz goes, they took moz because they could.. dolan was desperate and they were asking for everything we had.... they took dolan to school..

but funny you talk about "being on the record".. here is an on the record quote from your boy melo.

New York is playing well right now. I don’t think they’re looking at me. They wouldn’t want me to come in there and mess what they have up. That’s what I’ve read so.”

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/10/carmelo-anthony-hints-the-knicks-may-not-want-him-but-says-little-else-monday/

this is an interesting stance. the answers may begin real soon if they gambled right or wrong. my guess is it was wrong. mostly base that on being burned to much and hoping for waaaaay too many IF/ANDS/ELSEs to work out for the knicks favor -- health, chemistry, offensive game plan, defensive intensity from ALL, rotations, coaching, other teams moves not working out as well to name some.

we shall see though. yet another hope: the max guys step up and earn it this year.

tkf wrote:
in this generation, kobe is probably the closest thing we had to MJ..

Actually, that would probably be Wade. Kobe has emulated Jordan's fadeaway and mannerisms. But in regards to efficiency, blocks, steals and relentless driving to the basket it would easily be Wade.

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
in this generation, kobe is probably the closest thing we had to MJ..

Actually, that would probably be Wade. Kobe has emulated Jordan's fadeaway and mannerisms. But in regards to efficiency, blocks, steals and relentless driving to the basket it would easily be Wade.

I could agree with this to a certain extent. I think Wade's "Peak" may have been better than Kobe's but it was shorter. Kobe has better overall "PRIME" but he's clearly had better teams than Wade. Kobe is the best imitation MJ artist out there, but pretty much as you stated such a fraud and will never be anywhere close to Jordan IMO

6 Finals(as close to consecutive as it gets)
6 Finals Victories
6 Finals MVPs

Triple Crown Achievement

There are so many other ELITIST accomplishments he has over Kobe and always will no matter how much longer Kobe continues to play. Matter of fact if Kobe wins 7-8rings he's still not on Jordan's level for the 3 stats above.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

callmened wrote:Ive always thought that the issue was tyson & stat. Tyson takes up the space where stat operates. When he played well durng his first yr...he played center

Agreed. I've said this numerous times. When Chandler went down for a few games, Stat put up very good numbers. The Milwaukee game stands out when he and Melo played well.

2 problems with the Chandler Stat combo. First, Chandler ate up most of the pick-n-roll plays last year, a play that Stat made his career off of. Second, when Stat played the 5 in his first year here, he was quicker than the opposition so he would either dribble by them, or knock down the jay because they were too scared to come out. When he went on that scoring run in his first year, most of it was at the 5.

The 4's are quick enough to stay with Stat, so his patented 'put my head down and rush to the basket' move wont work. Also, his jumper vacated him last year. In order for him to be successful this year, he needs some spot minutes at the 5 (probably not going to happen with Camby here) and he needs to be the feature guy in the pick-and roll game. If not, then hopefully, he has improved in the post with Hakeem's help.

go back and look at Amare's #s playing next to Shaq. This nonesense that he needs to be at center to be great is just that... nonesense. Before last year Amare was a top 10 player and one of the best scoring bigs in the league, if not THE best scoring big.

He's the heart of this team and also the leader, but you cant lead from the bench. He needs to be healthy and playing. If he's that the Knicks will be better then good. If he's not we are Anthony's Nuggets and will be bounced in round 1 again. Its really as simple as that.

Maybe Nash had a lot to do with Stat/Shaq working. Maybe that was why the Knicks went so hard after Nash when it appeared they had their point guard of the future already.

I think thats a good observation. Dude was an MVP PG... so yea, Im sure that helped.

It will be really interesting to see how the Melo/Amare/Felton dynamic plays out. Felton likes to score himself a bit. We know he likes Amare and developed nice chemistry there. If Amare is healthy and there is no reason to assume he wont be expect Felton to get him the ball more. What will happen if the Knicks are winning and Melo is pouting?

I feel like Felton is a great fit with Melo and Stoudemire. Not as good as Nash of course, but better than most. He will be a great leader and great at finding these guys in their spots. We already know he can mesh well with Stoudemire, it's just a matter of meshing Melo and Stoudemire together. Felton won't score 17 ppg like he did in NY at first, but don't be surprised if he is a league leader in assists and really has a great year. I wish he was a most consistant outside shooter, but he can score which is important and keep the defense honest. As long as Melo is surrounded by guys who can score like Smith, Felton, and Stoudemire, it should be easy for him.

Melo wasn't coming here as a free agent. He was going to get his contract before the new cba so if he didn't end up a knick he would end up somewhere else at the trade deadline. As far as signing elite guys, wasn't that the plan for the summer of 2010. When Walsh/D'Ant struck out on the goal they scrambled and grabbed Stat. Who do you think they should have signed? If I follow what I interpet your definition of elite to be, the elite were either not free agents or turned down the Knicks. I am wondering what available 'elite' guy you think the Knicks dropped the ball on.

i think you are quoting the wrong post. if melo was not coming here as a free agent then you say "fine, good luck in any future endeavor." the only reason he is here is because of dolan.

once the knicks resorted to signing a free agent not named lebron, they needed to go the team-building route and patiently build a team that suited the max money acquisition and the head coach. that is how you build: you let the gm work with the coach to find the most logical and beneficial fit for his system and the most expensive player. the most logical and beneficial fit would be to acquire a pick and roll point guard better than ray felton. that's why felton got two years and a cheap contract-- if he didn't pan out the knicks could have upgraded at the point guard position.

melo forced his way here, enabled by dolan, displacing three decent young pieces and felton, displacing stoudemire, displacing fields, displacing the coach. melo doin' work! dolan meanwhile managed to displace his own, commissioner stern-mandated gm.

put another way the knicks were already far enough along in rebuilding. 28-26 was a respectable record given the sub-par point guard play. they did not need to tear down the team and start a rebuild again, which is essentially what the trade was.

The Knicks were chasing Melo all season. As soon as they lost out on that second star in free agency they set their sights on him. The Knicks were never going to rebuild in a traditional manner. Walsh moved young guys and draft picks so he could clear cap space and be a player in free agency. If a guy like Melo is available as a gm you try to get him especially if you set yourself up to have cap space to get two stars. I don't remember but was the breaking point for Walsh including Moz or was it just too much altogether? TEams don't just wish a star good luck and move on if they have a chance to get him.

I don't know about working with the coach. I wasn't a fan and Walsh brought in some guys that never got a shot. I think Walsh did his part. JVG jumped at the chance of coaching Spree and while stubborn adjusted to Camby's talents and utilized them. I never saw that with Mike while in NY. A frontline of Tyson, Anthony and Amare should have experienced a little more success then they did last year. Knicks were headed towards giving Houston a lotto pick for the McGrady trade.

your first paragraph is replete with conjecture.

chasing melo. no evidence of this. besides it's against the rules. players under contract and whatnot.
never intended to rebuild in a traditional manner. no evidence of this either.
if a guy like melo is available you get him. why? that's your personal opinion based on what.
gm has to get stars. again, why? it's personal opinion.

the only person who can actually confirm what you are postulating is donnie walsh.

here's evidence for you: the melo deal was consummated by dolan and walsh predictably found an excuse to "retire" after dolan low-balled him after shoving him aside.
more evidence: the coach didn't want melo either. he played along as well as he could until matters reached a breaking point.

i wasn't thrilled with d'antoni's stubborness, bizarre rotations, media style, and so on. but he came here with a record of success, and the understanding that after two years of hell he would be able to have a team to coach that was built according to his admittedly limited coaching tenets. his detractors like to dismiss the two years he had to endure even as they are happy to kick him out of town for not "adapting" to the new reality. the writing was on the wall for walsh and d'antoni as soon as dolan stepped in and got melo.

it has been pretty much turmoil and dysfunction and injuries ever since. and that's just the way dolan likes it-- as long as he can put asses in seats.