mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Anji wrote:Man this place is always like this after we lose. It sucks being around here after a lost when all some guys cares about is harping about the past. Harping being the endless talking and back tracking. For Melo, It's either "he is doing what he is suppose to do" or "he isn't performing up to par, we traded half the team for him", everything is a negative.

It's suppose to be about winning. But when we do win or look forward to what can be done going forward with the level of play we have, it's all that can be done to "put the brakes on" or "clam down" the knicks fans.

Mike has sand in his vag just like after the Pacers lost, and the Hawks lost and like the Melo trade,and on and on and on. Yeah we get it, you're not happy or impressed and you get sand in your Vag often, fine. So that means you got to rain on anybody and every bodies parade??? You will never be impressed unless the knicks win a title, but you loved Ewing(rightfully so). But it is laughable that you can draw the line so often about what puts a boner in your pants.

FM: Melo ain't won nothing he's a low level player.
KF: well Ewing never won either
FM: Well Ewing was a mans, man and he got to the second round at lease every year.
KF: Well Melo has been leading his teams to 50 wins and the playoffs every year, why are you trying to down grade everything Melo has done by comparing him to players that haven't accomplished anything close.

It's a ****ty circle of reasoning IMO, "every player is nothing until I deem it something". What a front running way to view the world.

And Nalod you always worried about "hype", when it's good for the knicks. If it's "hype" for another team well your all over it right. Crazy talking about other teams future but you can't just bare to let a thread go by if there is too much "hype" about the knicks. Well correction, the knicks with Melo, the "hype" would be fine if we were pumping up Gallo while he sat out for 2-6 weeks though. That "Hype" would have been refreshing!!! And Nets hype, even though they pretty much spit the bit!!!

Funny thing is we win and none of this ever happened. We win big and it's all under the bridge right??? It's a lose lose to have to deal with this kind of rational because at the end of the day, they will never wrong.

Either the team wins and "that's what we wanted all along"
or
they don't and it's "see that's why I never brought in".

Zero Payoff. No point to it, please just let these duds get the sand out!!!

The sand in the vagina is in your old ladies

But again... Maybe if you change what i said it makes your posts actually make sense? Show me where I say Melo is a low level player. You cant. So quit making **** up, it's a douchebag move and surely your not a dbag right?

Theres a considerable space between the highest tier and the next group. Melo isnt a top 10 player and I have stated my reasons clearly. Sorry if the logic is making you choke on that koolaid.

You want to hear double standards? All the pro trade people love to talk about how you need STARS to win big. Only problem is Melos teams always bow out in the playoffs to the tams with... Stars.

Your the one with the vagina because you can't talk about Melo without being emotional. You and your crew are like a phucking hen house every time someone calls your overdressed toddler chubby. Hey Lin and Amare have disappointed me. MDA was a disappointment. If Melo does another quick first round exit that will be a disappointment as well. If it's going have you up too late eating chocolates and feeling sorry about life I bet Marv can hook you up with a good therapist.

I am rooting for a second round exit, this way we can all be happy and it meets your standards. And, getting knocked out of the first round has zero to do with not showing up. He was the ONLY one to show up last year and how did he play for the WCF's in 2009?

You are starting to make me dizzy - Enjoy ... this is an illogical waste of time.

who says Im not happy? Is saying Melo isnt a top 10 player a dig? Thats what cracks me up... people here take it like its some kind of slight. Thats it. Whats illogical is putting words in my mouth and creating an arguement that doesnt exist. You dont need to convince me Melo is a tremendously talented player who take over games, who can outplay stars, who on any given night can drop 40+ and seemingly win games by himself. All Ive said is he doesnt do it enough to be counted among the great players in this league and he doesnt do it enough when it counts the most. Assholes on this board read this and walk away with this garbage about how this is just Melo hate.

Now people are talking about Robert Horry?

Stars and QBs are ALWAYS judged by how far they get their teams. People here act like this is some faux standard I have made up in the last year to slight Melo.

Is it fair? Probably not. I alway go back to JVG. If Houston's floater doesnt drop vs. Miami in round 1 than there is a good chance JVG gets canned and the rest is history. Is it fair that the most pivotal moment in a coach's career and defining moment is something he has ZERO control over? Hey thats sports.

So let me just say for all you out there... Im SOOOOO sorry Melo hasnt yet lived up to what you hope he cant be yet. Im equally sorry that anyone who points this out may hurt your feelings. I do REALLY REALLY hope that this year is different. That this year the score at the end of some of the games favors his team. That will be great. Im always rooting.

Always hope in Knick land.

Robert Horry.

Funny... those kind of points destroy any shred of logic or knowledge you might have brought to the table.

Once again ... To get you back on point and to spit out the words you keep putting words in my mouth.

I don't care where you rank Melo - don't give 2 sh1ts. And, I am certainly not slighted by you making any assumption or declaration regardless of how silly or not silly it is.

I am calling out your disingenuous, faulty left field logic in regards to your criteria or lack there-of. "He goes to the playoffs and scores all those points and they don't win ................." blah blah blah not taking into account who they are playing. What seed they are. Who the teammates are. Do you make a case for your faulty argument(s) with any stats that shows how he did not show up/disappeared? Agenda driven and lacking basis and substance - logic that illogical non-disingenuous people would exorcize. Saying things like "we traded 4 starters for him", propaganda, misleading and yes disingenuous.

Calling people "Assholes" makes your argument even weaker. But anyway ...

Robert Horry was a joke to show how silly your criteria is. But, you saw through that and used it to strengthen your weak argument.

Rank him 100-150 - don't care but don't make silly arguments. Maybe he can go to the playoffs this year with TD and Bibby starting and Jorts and center due to more injuries and you can once again blankly disregard context and make more silly assertions. Lets disregard that he was the ONLY one to show up last year. Or, his WCF in 2009. How did he play? Funny how it took Karl Malone all those years to finally get over the hump (though he still never one with the best PG maybe ever - so I am not sure of your ranking system as it pertains to him) still found a way to make it into top 50 all time.

I fully expect along with the rest of the sane world that the 8th seed will lose to the 1 seed (or 7/2) this year and I am sure that Vegas is in line in a big way. Have fun when that happens with your peripheral vision.

How the hell did da fuka lose to Shaq/Pau/Bynum/whoever and Kobe and Duncan/Parker/Manu ...? He had NENE - don't get it. Denver was favored to kill those idiots every year.

Wiki - 2009 - Denver lost the first game of the Western Conference Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers but won the second game to tie the series 1–1. Carmelo Anthony became the first Denver player to score at least 30 points in five consecutive playoff games since the Nuggets joined the NBA in 1976. They lost the series 4–2, ending Denver's longest playoff run in team history.

Damn!

Anyway, I do agree that when a player does not win in their careers - Marino, Archie Manning, Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Elgin Baylor it is a ding on them. Sports is all about winning and thats all we care about. However, this does not always correlate to where they are ranked as player and those rankings though difficult, does not disregard context.

Montana vs Marino? Ageless argument. Fair? Don't know. But I can't believe Marino even got to play in this argument. Maybe it's because Montana had JERRY RICE, JOHN TAYLOR, BRENT JONES, ROGER CRAIG, TOM RATHMAN AND AN ALL WORLD DEFENSE. Dont know. Just sayin.

yea... Melo was the only one who showed up last year. He had one great game that ended with Paul Pierce beating him when it counted the most. That was awesome. I really want to relive that game. Every year.

If you think Melo is a superstar Im happy for you. Enjoy. He's got a 16-34 career post season record. Now your going to spin it, say that 8 years of playoffs and only advancing ONCE wasnt Melo's fault because they were the lower seed, etc etc.

Sure... thats fine.

How about we keep it to this year?

Melo admitted to not playing hard under MDA. He's not the first star who has had problems with the coach. It happens. But there is cause and effect here.
cause: Melo mails it in an has lousy game after lousy game
effect: Knicks lose, often to clearly inferior teams, costing them games in the standings.

cause: Knicks are 7th or 8th seed
effect: highly unfavorable matchup against elite established team in first round and get smoked

So you see... there are more factors than just strength of opponent come playoff time arent there? Or perhaps we should absolve Melo of fault for not playing hard and blame MDA for that? You tell me.

But hey... lets avoid Melo vs. MDA. Its not a fun topic around here and its over. Melo is here, he's our guy. The question is just what do we have? How good is this guy... is that the discussion?

So on team... team is part of it. Your 100% right. Look at Kevin Garnett. Dude was a top NBA player right? Sota always got bounced in round one until (like Melo) KG gets some help and Spree and Sam Cassell arive. So.... is Melo like KG?

Am I describing your defense of Melo's poor post record accurately? Great player, puts up #s, doesnt have the supporting crew in the postseason right?

Do you consider Melo the same caliber player as KG? Love to hear your answer here...

Glad you brought up (I did not) the Melo vs MDA "I did not try hard" and was dogging it argument and that it was his fault that we lost games. Melo was banished to the corner and it failed. Also, when did Melo ever have a stretch (injured/bad coaching) or for whatever reason like this stretch (pre-Woody)? That's where ignoring context or simply being uninhibited by facts come into play. How did he play last year after "the trade"?

As I have always said: "They are both at fault and deserve blame" NONE OF THEM GET A PASS OR SHOULDER ALL THE BLAME.

MELO IMHO is not KG - though, that does not bolster your argument (or lack-thereof) of winning vs losing / under-matched/over-matched/playoff record.

Is MELO Paul Pierce? I think he is better or at least equal (just my opinion - and thats all it is - an opinion). Swap out PP for Melo and I BELIEVE that they would have been as good or better. Playing with "the big 4" - KG, Allen, Rondo, Melo? Who was Melo's supporting cast against "the big 4"? Your answers lack content and/or substance.

Again, apples to oranges and that's why I believe these comparisons are often silly.

Not exactly true, Melo was a point forward in the beginning of the season when Douglas was our starting point guard, after Linsanity arrived (and Melo returned from the all-star break) is when MDA tried to spread the floor using Melo, now I don’t remember Melo being too cooperative and staying in the corner on a consistent basis.

I woulda stayed in the corner. Thats because I am a conformist with a low self esteem.

Man according to your comments, I truly wonder sometimes if you follow basketball at all.

Well anyway, I guess that make Amare a conformist since he stated the following
"We've just got to buy into Mike D'Antoni's system -- it works, I've been a part of it for a long time now, and it's been very successful," Stoudemire said. "We just have to buy into it and get it done. We've proven it works with the team we had before the trade, and it can work with the guys we have now. So it's just a matter of us buying into it”

Man, That guy Amare really had a low self esteem.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=howard_johnette&id=6243685

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Anji wrote:Man this place is always like this after we lose. It sucks being around here after a lost when all some guys cares about is harping about the past. Harping being the endless talking and back tracking. For Melo, It's either "he is doing what he is suppose to do" or "he isn't performing up to par, we traded half the team for him", everything is a negative.

It's suppose to be about winning. But when we do win or look forward to what can be done going forward with the level of play we have, it's all that can be done to "put the brakes on" or "clam down" the knicks fans.

Mike has sand in his vag just like after the Pacers lost, and the Hawks lost and like the Melo trade,and on and on and on. Yeah we get it, you're not happy or impressed and you get sand in your Vag often, fine. So that means you got to rain on anybody and every bodies parade??? You will never be impressed unless the knicks win a title, but you loved Ewing(rightfully so). But it is laughable that you can draw the line so often about what puts a boner in your pants.

FM: Melo ain't won nothing he's a low level player.
KF: well Ewing never won either
FM: Well Ewing was a mans, man and he got to the second round at lease every year.
KF: Well Melo has been leading his teams to 50 wins and the playoffs every year, why are you trying to down grade everything Melo has done by comparing him to players that haven't accomplished anything close.

It's a ****ty circle of reasoning IMO, "every player is nothing until I deem it something". What a front running way to view the world.

And Nalod you always worried about "hype", when it's good for the knicks. If it's "hype" for another team well your all over it right. Crazy talking about other teams future but you can't just bare to let a thread go by if there is too much "hype" about the knicks. Well correction, the knicks with Melo, the "hype" would be fine if we were pumping up Gallo while he sat out for 2-6 weeks though. That "Hype" would have been refreshing!!! And Nets hype, even though they pretty much spit the bit!!!

Funny thing is we win and none of this ever happened. We win big and it's all under the bridge right??? It's a lose lose to have to deal with this kind of rational because at the end of the day, they will never wrong.

Either the team wins and "that's what we wanted all along"
or
they don't and it's "see that's why I never brought in".

Zero Payoff. No point to it, please just let these duds get the sand out!!!

The sand in the vagina is in your old ladies

But again... Maybe if you change what i said it makes your posts actually make sense? Show me where I say Melo is a low level player. You cant. So quit making **** up, it's a douchebag move and surely your not a dbag right?

Theres a considerable space between the highest tier and the next group. Melo isnt a top 10 player and I have stated my reasons clearly. Sorry if the logic is making you choke on that koolaid.

You want to hear double standards? All the pro trade people love to talk about how you need STARS to win big. Only problem is Melos teams always bow out in the playoffs to the tams with... Stars.

Your the one with the vagina because you can't talk about Melo without being emotional. You and your crew are like a phucking hen house every time someone calls your overdressed toddler chubby. Hey Lin and Amare have disappointed me. MDA was a disappointment. If Melo does another quick first round exit that will be a disappointment as well. If it's going have you up too late eating chocolates and feeling sorry about life I bet Marv can hook you up with a good therapist.

I am rooting for a second round exit, this way we can all be happy and it meets your standards. And, getting knocked out of the first round has zero to do with not showing up. He was the ONLY one to show up last year and how did he play for the WCF's in 2009?

You are starting to make me dizzy - Enjoy ... this is an illogical waste of time.

who says Im not happy? Is saying Melo isnt a top 10 player a dig? Thats what cracks me up... people here take it like its some kind of slight. Thats it. Whats illogical is putting words in my mouth and creating an arguement that doesnt exist. You dont need to convince me Melo is a tremendously talented player who take over games, who can outplay stars, who on any given night can drop 40+ and seemingly win games by himself. All Ive said is he doesnt do it enough to be counted among the great players in this league and he doesnt do it enough when it counts the most. Assholes on this board read this and walk away with this garbage about how this is just Melo hate.

Now people are talking about Robert Horry?

Stars and QBs are ALWAYS judged by how far they get their teams. People here act like this is some faux standard I have made up in the last year to slight Melo.

Is it fair? Probably not. I alway go back to JVG. If Houston's floater doesnt drop vs. Miami in round 1 than there is a good chance JVG gets canned and the rest is history. Is it fair that the most pivotal moment in a coach's career and defining moment is something he has ZERO control over? Hey thats sports.

So let me just say for all you out there... Im SOOOOO sorry Melo hasnt yet lived up to what you hope he cant be yet. Im equally sorry that anyone who points this out may hurt your feelings. I do REALLY REALLY hope that this year is different. That this year the score at the end of some of the games favors his team. That will be great. Im always rooting.

Always hope in Knick land.

Robert Horry.

Funny... those kind of points destroy any shred of logic or knowledge you might have brought to the table.

Once again ... To get you back on point and to spit out the words you keep putting words in my mouth.

I don't care where you rank Melo - don't give 2 sh1ts. And, I am certainly not slighted by you making any assumption or declaration regardless of how silly or not silly it is.

I am calling out your disingenuous, faulty left field logic in regards to your criteria or lack there-of. "He goes to the playoffs and scores all those points and they don't win ................." blah blah blah not taking into account who they are playing. What seed they are. Who the teammates are. Do you make a case for your faulty argument(s) with any stats that shows how he did not show up/disappeared? Agenda driven and lacking basis and substance - logic that illogical non-disingenuous people would exorcize. Saying things like "we traded 4 starters for him", propaganda, misleading and yes disingenuous.

Calling people "Assholes" makes your argument even weaker. But anyway ...

Robert Horry was a joke to show how silly your criteria is. But, you saw through that and used it to strengthen your weak argument.

Rank him 100-150 - don't care but don't make silly arguments. Maybe he can go to the playoffs this year with TD and Bibby starting and Jorts and center due to more injuries and you can once again blankly disregard context and make more silly assertions. Lets disregard that he was the ONLY one to show up last year. Or, his WCF in 2009. How did he play? Funny how it took Karl Malone all those years to finally get over the hump (though he still never one with the best PG maybe ever - so I am not sure of your ranking system as it pertains to him) still found a way to make it into top 50 all time.

I fully expect along with the rest of the sane world that the 8th seed will lose to the 1 seed (or 7/2) this year and I am sure that Vegas is in line in a big way. Have fun when that happens with your peripheral vision.

How the hell did da fuka lose to Shaq/Pau/Bynum/whoever and Kobe and Duncan/Parker/Manu ...? He had NENE - don't get it. Denver was favored to kill those idiots every year.

Wiki - 2009 - Denver lost the first game of the Western Conference Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers but won the second game to tie the series 1–1. Carmelo Anthony became the first Denver player to score at least 30 points in five consecutive playoff games since the Nuggets joined the NBA in 1976. They lost the series 4–2, ending Denver's longest playoff run in team history.

Damn!

Anyway, I do agree that when a player does not win in their careers - Marino, Archie Manning, Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Elgin Baylor it is a ding on them. Sports is all about winning and thats all we care about. However, this does not always correlate to where they are ranked as player and those rankings though difficult, does not disregard context.

Montana vs Marino? Ageless argument. Fair? Don't know. But I can't believe Marino even got to play in this argument. Maybe it's because Montana had JERRY RICE, JOHN TAYLOR, BRENT JONES, ROGER CRAIG, TOM RATHMAN AND AN ALL WORLD DEFENSE. Dont know. Just sayin.

yea... Melo was the only one who showed up last year. He had one great game that ended with Paul Pierce beating him when it counted the most. That was awesome. I really want to relive that game. Every year.

If you think Melo is a superstar Im happy for you. Enjoy. He's got a 16-34 career post season record. Now your going to spin it, say that 8 years of playoffs and only advancing ONCE wasnt Melo's fault because they were the lower seed, etc etc.

Sure... thats fine.

How about we keep it to this year?

Melo admitted to not playing hard under MDA. He's not the first star who has had problems with the coach. It happens. But there is cause and effect here.
cause: Melo mails it in an has lousy game after lousy game
effect: Knicks lose, often to clearly inferior teams, costing them games in the standings.

cause: Knicks are 7th or 8th seed
effect: highly unfavorable matchup against elite established team in first round and get smoked

So you see... there are more factors than just strength of opponent come playoff time arent there? Or perhaps we should absolve Melo of fault for not playing hard and blame MDA for that? You tell me.

But hey... lets avoid Melo vs. MDA. Its not a fun topic around here and its over. Melo is here, he's our guy. The question is just what do we have? How good is this guy... is that the discussion?

So on team... team is part of it. Your 100% right. Look at Kevin Garnett. Dude was a top NBA player right? Sota always got bounced in round one until (like Melo) KG gets some help and Spree and Sam Cassell arive. So.... is Melo like KG?

Am I describing your defense of Melo's poor post record accurately? Great player, puts up #s, doesnt have the supporting crew in the postseason right?

Do you consider Melo the same caliber player as KG? Love to hear your answer here...

Glad you brought up (I did not) the Melo vs MDA "I did not try hard" and was dogging it argument and that it was his fault that we lost games. Melo was banished to the corner and it failed. Also, when did Melo ever have a stretch (injured/bad coaching) or for whatever reason like this stretch (pre-Woody)? That's where ignoring context or simply being uninhibited by facts come into play. How did he play last year after "the trade"?

As I have always said: "They are both at fault and deserve blame" NONE OF THEM GET A PASS OR SHOULDER ALL THE BLAME.

MELO IMHO is not KG - though, that does not bolster your argument (or lack-thereof) of winning vs losing / under-matched/over-matched/playoff record.

Is MELO Paul Pierce? I think he is better or at least equal (just my opinion - and thats all it is - an opinion). Swap out PP for Melo and I BELIEVE that they would have been as good or better. Playing with "the big 4" - KG, Allen, Rondo, Melo? Who was Melo's supporting cast against "the big 4"? Your answers lack content and/or substance.

Again, apples to oranges and that's why I believe these comparisons are often silly.

Not exactly true, Melo was a point forward in the beginning of the season when Douglas was our starting point guard, after Linsanity arrived (and Melo returned from the all-star break) is when MDA tried to spread the floor using Melo, now I don’t remember Melo being too cooperative and staying in the corner on a consistent basis.

I woulda stayed in the corner. Thats because I am a conformist with a low self esteem.

Man according to your comments, I truly wonder sometimes if you follow basketball at all.

Well anyway, I guess that make Amare a conformist since he stated the following
"We've just got to buy into Mike D'Antoni's system -- it works, I've been a part of it for a long time now, and it's been very successful," Stoudemire said. "We just have to buy into it and get it done. We've proven it works with the team we had before the trade, and it can work with the guys we have now. So it's just a matter of us buying into it”

Man, That guy Amare really had a low self esteem.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=howard_johnette&id=6243685

Uh ...... I don't know what to say. Please enlighten me with your knowledge and wisdom instead of making idiot comments.

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Anji wrote:Man this place is always like this after we lose. It sucks being around here after a lost when all some guys cares about is harping about the past. Harping being the endless talking and back tracking. For Melo, It's either "he is doing what he is suppose to do" or "he isn't performing up to par, we traded half the team for him", everything is a negative.

It's suppose to be about winning. But when we do win or look forward to what can be done going forward with the level of play we have, it's all that can be done to "put the brakes on" or "clam down" the knicks fans.

Mike has sand in his vag just like after the Pacers lost, and the Hawks lost and like the Melo trade,and on and on and on. Yeah we get it, you're not happy or impressed and you get sand in your Vag often, fine. So that means you got to rain on anybody and every bodies parade??? You will never be impressed unless the knicks win a title, but you loved Ewing(rightfully so). But it is laughable that you can draw the line so often about what puts a boner in your pants.

FM: Melo ain't won nothing he's a low level player.
KF: well Ewing never won either
FM: Well Ewing was a mans, man and he got to the second round at lease every year.
KF: Well Melo has been leading his teams to 50 wins and the playoffs every year, why are you trying to down grade everything Melo has done by comparing him to players that haven't accomplished anything close.

It's a ****ty circle of reasoning IMO, "every player is nothing until I deem it something". What a front running way to view the world.

And Nalod you always worried about "hype", when it's good for the knicks. If it's "hype" for another team well your all over it right. Crazy talking about other teams future but you can't just bare to let a thread go by if there is too much "hype" about the knicks. Well correction, the knicks with Melo, the "hype" would be fine if we were pumping up Gallo while he sat out for 2-6 weeks though. That "Hype" would have been refreshing!!! And Nets hype, even though they pretty much spit the bit!!!

Funny thing is we win and none of this ever happened. We win big and it's all under the bridge right??? It's a lose lose to have to deal with this kind of rational because at the end of the day, they will never wrong.

Either the team wins and "that's what we wanted all along"
or
they don't and it's "see that's why I never brought in".

Zero Payoff. No point to it, please just let these duds get the sand out!!!

The sand in the vagina is in your old ladies

But again... Maybe if you change what i said it makes your posts actually make sense? Show me where I say Melo is a low level player. You cant. So quit making **** up, it's a douchebag move and surely your not a dbag right?

Theres a considerable space between the highest tier and the next group. Melo isnt a top 10 player and I have stated my reasons clearly. Sorry if the logic is making you choke on that koolaid.

You want to hear double standards? All the pro trade people love to talk about how you need STARS to win big. Only problem is Melos teams always bow out in the playoffs to the tams with... Stars.

Your the one with the vagina because you can't talk about Melo without being emotional. You and your crew are like a phucking hen house every time someone calls your overdressed toddler chubby. Hey Lin and Amare have disappointed me. MDA was a disappointment. If Melo does another quick first round exit that will be a disappointment as well. If it's going have you up too late eating chocolates and feeling sorry about life I bet Marv can hook you up with a good therapist.

I am rooting for a second round exit, this way we can all be happy and it meets your standards. And, getting knocked out of the first round has zero to do with not showing up. He was the ONLY one to show up last year and how did he play for the WCF's in 2009?

You are starting to make me dizzy - Enjoy ... this is an illogical waste of time.

who says Im not happy? Is saying Melo isnt a top 10 player a dig? Thats what cracks me up... people here take it like its some kind of slight. Thats it. Whats illogical is putting words in my mouth and creating an arguement that doesnt exist. You dont need to convince me Melo is a tremendously talented player who take over games, who can outplay stars, who on any given night can drop 40+ and seemingly win games by himself. All Ive said is he doesnt do it enough to be counted among the great players in this league and he doesnt do it enough when it counts the most. Assholes on this board read this and walk away with this garbage about how this is just Melo hate.

Now people are talking about Robert Horry?

Stars and QBs are ALWAYS judged by how far they get their teams. People here act like this is some faux standard I have made up in the last year to slight Melo.

Is it fair? Probably not. I alway go back to JVG. If Houston's floater doesnt drop vs. Miami in round 1 than there is a good chance JVG gets canned and the rest is history. Is it fair that the most pivotal moment in a coach's career and defining moment is something he has ZERO control over? Hey thats sports.

So let me just say for all you out there... Im SOOOOO sorry Melo hasnt yet lived up to what you hope he cant be yet. Im equally sorry that anyone who points this out may hurt your feelings. I do REALLY REALLY hope that this year is different. That this year the score at the end of some of the games favors his team. That will be great. Im always rooting.

Always hope in Knick land.

Robert Horry.

Funny... those kind of points destroy any shred of logic or knowledge you might have brought to the table.

Once again ... To get you back on point and to spit out the words you keep putting words in my mouth.

I don't care where you rank Melo - don't give 2 sh1ts. And, I am certainly not slighted by you making any assumption or declaration regardless of how silly or not silly it is.

I am calling out your disingenuous, faulty left field logic in regards to your criteria or lack there-of. "He goes to the playoffs and scores all those points and they don't win ................." blah blah blah not taking into account who they are playing. What seed they are. Who the teammates are. Do you make a case for your faulty argument(s) with any stats that shows how he did not show up/disappeared? Agenda driven and lacking basis and substance - logic that illogical non-disingenuous people would exorcize. Saying things like "we traded 4 starters for him", propaganda, misleading and yes disingenuous.

Calling people "Assholes" makes your argument even weaker. But anyway ...

Robert Horry was a joke to show how silly your criteria is. But, you saw through that and used it to strengthen your weak argument.

Rank him 100-150 - don't care but don't make silly arguments. Maybe he can go to the playoffs this year with TD and Bibby starting and Jorts and center due to more injuries and you can once again blankly disregard context and make more silly assertions. Lets disregard that he was the ONLY one to show up last year. Or, his WCF in 2009. How did he play? Funny how it took Karl Malone all those years to finally get over the hump (though he still never one with the best PG maybe ever - so I am not sure of your ranking system as it pertains to him) still found a way to make it into top 50 all time.

I fully expect along with the rest of the sane world that the 8th seed will lose to the 1 seed (or 7/2) this year and I am sure that Vegas is in line in a big way. Have fun when that happens with your peripheral vision.

How the hell did da fuka lose to Shaq/Pau/Bynum/whoever and Kobe and Duncan/Parker/Manu ...? He had NENE - don't get it. Denver was favored to kill those idiots every year.

Wiki - 2009 - Denver lost the first game of the Western Conference Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers but won the second game to tie the series 1–1. Carmelo Anthony became the first Denver player to score at least 30 points in five consecutive playoff games since the Nuggets joined the NBA in 1976. They lost the series 4–2, ending Denver's longest playoff run in team history.

Damn!

Anyway, I do agree that when a player does not win in their careers - Marino, Archie Manning, Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Elgin Baylor it is a ding on them. Sports is all about winning and thats all we care about. However, this does not always correlate to where they are ranked as player and those rankings though difficult, does not disregard context.

Montana vs Marino? Ageless argument. Fair? Don't know. But I can't believe Marino even got to play in this argument. Maybe it's because Montana had JERRY RICE, JOHN TAYLOR, BRENT JONES, ROGER CRAIG, TOM RATHMAN AND AN ALL WORLD DEFENSE. Dont know. Just sayin.

yea... Melo was the only one who showed up last year. He had one great game that ended with Paul Pierce beating him when it counted the most. That was awesome. I really want to relive that game. Every year.

If you think Melo is a superstar Im happy for you. Enjoy. He's got a 16-34 career post season record. Now your going to spin it, say that 8 years of playoffs and only advancing ONCE wasnt Melo's fault because they were the lower seed, etc etc.

Sure... thats fine.

How about we keep it to this year?

Melo admitted to not playing hard under MDA. He's not the first star who has had problems with the coach. It happens. But there is cause and effect here.
cause: Melo mails it in an has lousy game after lousy game
effect: Knicks lose, often to clearly inferior teams, costing them games in the standings.

cause: Knicks are 7th or 8th seed
effect: highly unfavorable matchup against elite established team in first round and get smoked

So you see... there are more factors than just strength of opponent come playoff time arent there? Or perhaps we should absolve Melo of fault for not playing hard and blame MDA for that? You tell me.

But hey... lets avoid Melo vs. MDA. Its not a fun topic around here and its over. Melo is here, he's our guy. The question is just what do we have? How good is this guy... is that the discussion?

So on team... team is part of it. Your 100% right. Look at Kevin Garnett. Dude was a top NBA player right? Sota always got bounced in round one until (like Melo) KG gets some help and Spree and Sam Cassell arive. So.... is Melo like KG?

Am I describing your defense of Melo's poor post record accurately? Great player, puts up #s, doesnt have the supporting crew in the postseason right?

Do you consider Melo the same caliber player as KG? Love to hear your answer here...

Glad you brought up (I did not) the Melo vs MDA "I did not try hard" and was dogging it argument and that it was his fault that we lost games. Melo was banished to the corner and it failed. Also, when did Melo ever have a stretch (injured/bad coaching) or for whatever reason like this stretch (pre-Woody)? That's where ignoring context or simply being uninhibited by facts come into play. How did he play last year after "the trade"?

As I have always said: "They are both at fault and deserve blame" NONE OF THEM GET A PASS OR SHOULDER ALL THE BLAME.

MELO IMHO is not KG - though, that does not bolster your argument (or lack-thereof) of winning vs losing / under-matched/over-matched/playoff record.

Is MELO Paul Pierce? I think he is better or at least equal (just my opinion - and thats all it is - an opinion). Swap out PP for Melo and I BELIEVE that they would have been as good or better. Playing with "the big 4" - KG, Allen, Rondo, Melo? Who was Melo's supporting cast against "the big 4"? Your answers lack content and/or substance.

Again, apples to oranges and that's why I believe these comparisons are often silly.

Not exactly true, Melo was a point forward in the beginning of the season when Douglas was our starting point guard, after Linsanity arrived (and Melo returned from the all-star break) is when MDA tried to spread the floor using Melo, now I don’t remember Melo being too cooperative and staying in the corner on a consistent basis.

I woulda stayed in the corner. Thats because I am a conformist with a low self esteem.

Man according to your comments, I truly wonder sometimes if you follow basketball at all.

Well anyway, I guess that make Amare a conformist since he stated the following
"We've just got to buy into Mike D'Antoni's system -- it works, I've been a part of it for a long time now, and it's been very successful," Stoudemire said. "We just have to buy into it and get it done. We've proven it works with the team we had before the trade, and it can work with the guys we have now. So it's just a matter of us buying into it”

Man, That guy Amare really had a low self esteem.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=howard_johnette&id=6243685

Uh ...... I don't know what to say. Please enlighten me with your knowledge and wisdom instead of making idiot comments.

I already did, please read above and try to understand it.

My true colors? What would those be? That I am pro-MDA and anti-Melo? I will repeat what I have said for however many years I have posted here. Its always about the players. Thats just me. Thats just how I feel about basketball. While people desperatly needed Chaney fired, then Lenny, then Larry, then Isiah, then MDA (and probably soon Woody) in order to fix this team I have and will continue to blame whatever issues exist with the team on the players, or at the very least primarily on the players. When the team stinks, its usually because you need better players.

I dont care what the circumstances between MDA and Melo were. The FACT is MDA failed here because he couldnt get his best player to play well. Another fact is that Melo didnt play hard for the last coach we had and it cost the Knicks games in the standings. Indy, Orl, Atl, Bos... all are about 4 games away from us. While Melo was pouting and standing in the corner we were losing games to bad teams. MDA had to go. Fine. The change needed to happen. OK.. lets all move on. But Melo bailing on the coach cost us games. Get it through your head. The Knicks PLAYERS have nobody to blame but themselves for not being a higher seed, so when we get smoked in round one the responsibility falls on the players. Are you going to blame the matchups on another failed post season? Sorry.. the players are responsible for that also.

Funny... your defense of Melo vs. MDA was he was told to stand in a corner when MDA did everything to get this guy involved at the start of the season.

Great people are still blaming MDA.

True colors... lol. Yea... good one. Im a Knick fan. I love em when they win and hate em when they lose. One thing I dont do though is blame coaches for players missing shots and getting beat by other players.

Anji wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Anji wrote:Man this place is always like this after we lose. It sucks being around here after a lost when all some guys cares about is harping about the past. Harping being the endless talking and back tracking. For Melo, It's either "he is doing what he is suppose to do" or "he isn't performing up to par, we traded half the team for him", everything is a negative.

It's suppose to be about winning. But when we do win or look forward to what can be done going forward with the level of play we have, it's all that can be done to "put the brakes on" or "clam down" the knicks fans.

Mike has sand in his vag just like after the Pacers lost, and the Hawks lost and like the Melo trade,and on and on and on. Yeah we get it, you're not happy or impressed and you get sand in your Vag often, fine. So that means you got to rain on anybody and every bodies parade??? You will never be impressed unless the knicks win a title, but you loved Ewing(rightfully so). But it is laughable that you can draw the line so often about what puts a boner in your pants.

FM: Melo ain't won nothing he's a low level player.
KF: well Ewing never won either
FM: Well Ewing was a mans, man and he got to the second round at lease every year.
KF: Well Melo has been leading his teams to 50 wins and the playoffs every year, why are you trying to down grade everything Melo has done by comparing him to players that haven't accomplished anything close.

It's a ****ty circle of reasoning IMO, "every player is nothing until I deem it something". What a front running way to view the world.

And Nalod you always worried about "hype", when it's good for the knicks. If it's "hype" for another team well your all over it right. Crazy talking about other teams future but you can't just bare to let a thread go by if there is too much "hype" about the knicks. Well correction, the knicks with Melo, the "hype" would be fine if we were pumping up Gallo while he sat out for 2-6 weeks though. That "Hype" would have been refreshing!!! And Nets hype, even though they pretty much spit the bit!!!

Funny thing is we win and none of this ever happened. We win big and it's all under the bridge right??? It's a lose lose to have to deal with this kind of rational because at the end of the day, they will never wrong.

Either the team wins and "that's what we wanted all along"
or
they don't and it's "see that's why I never brought in".

Zero Payoff. No point to it, please just let these duds get the sand out!!!

The sand in the vagina is in your old ladies

But again... Maybe if you change what i said it makes your posts actually make sense? Show me where I say Melo is a low level player. You cant. So quit making **** up, it's a douchebag move and surely your not a dbag right?

Theres a considerable space between the highest tier and the next group. Melo isnt a top 10 player and I have stated my reasons clearly. Sorry if the logic is making you choke on that koolaid.

You want to hear double standards? All the pro trade people love to talk about how you need STARS to win big. Only problem is Melos teams always bow out in the playoffs to the tams with... Stars.

Your the one with the vagina because you can't talk about Melo without being emotional. You and your crew are like a phucking hen house every time someone calls your overdressed toddler chubby. Hey Lin and Amare have disappointed me. MDA was a disappointment. If Melo does another quick first round exit that will be a disappointment as well. If it's going have you up too late eating chocolates and feeling sorry about life I bet Marv can hook you up with a good therapist.

I am rooting for a second round exit, this way we can all be happy and it meets your standards. And, getting knocked out of the first round has zero to do with not showing up. He was the ONLY one to show up last year and how did he play for the WCF's in 2009?

You are starting to make me dizzy - Enjoy ... this is an illogical waste of time.

who says Im not happy? Is saying Melo isnt a top 10 player a dig? Thats what cracks me up... people here take it like its some kind of slight. Thats it. Whats illogical is putting words in my mouth and creating an arguement that doesnt exist. You dont need to convince me Melo is a tremendously talented player who take over games, who can outplay stars, who on any given night can drop 40+ and seemingly win games by himself. All Ive said is he doesnt do it enough to be counted among the great players in this league and he doesnt do it enough when it counts the most. Assholes on this board read this and walk away with this garbage about how this is just Melo hate.

Now people are talking about Robert Horry?

Stars and QBs are ALWAYS judged by how far they get their teams. People here act like this is some faux standard I have made up in the last year to slight Melo.

Is it fair? Probably not. I alway go back to JVG. If Houston's floater doesnt drop vs. Miami in round 1 than there is a good chance JVG gets canned and the rest is history. Is it fair that the most pivotal moment in a coach's career and defining moment is something he has ZERO control over? Hey thats sports.

So let me just say for all you out there... Im SOOOOO sorry Melo hasnt yet lived up to what you hope he cant be yet. Im equally sorry that anyone who points this out may hurt your feelings. I do REALLY REALLY hope that this year is different. That this year the score at the end of some of the games favors his team. That will be great. Im always rooting.

Always hope in Knick land.

Robert Horry.

Funny... those kind of points destroy any shred of logic or knowledge you might have brought to the table.

Once again ... To get you back on point and to spit out the words you keep putting words in my mouth.

I don't care where you rank Melo - don't give 2 sh1ts. And, I am certainly not slighted by you making any assumption or declaration regardless of how silly or not silly it is.

I am calling out your disingenuous, faulty left field logic in regards to your criteria or lack there-of. "He goes to the playoffs and scores all those points and they don't win ................." blah blah blah not taking into account who they are playing. What seed they are. Who the teammates are. Do you make a case for your faulty argument(s) with any stats that shows how he did not show up/disappeared? Agenda driven and lacking basis and substance - logic that illogical non-disingenuous people would exorcize. Saying things like "we traded 4 starters for him", propaganda, misleading and yes disingenuous.

Calling people "Assholes" makes your argument even weaker. But anyway ...

Robert Horry was a joke to show how silly your criteria is. But, you saw through that and used it to strengthen your weak argument.

Rank him 100-150 - don't care but don't make silly arguments. Maybe he can go to the playoffs this year with TD and Bibby starting and Jorts and center due to more injuries and you can once again blankly disregard context and make more silly assertions. Lets disregard that he was the ONLY one to show up last year. Or, his WCF in 2009. How did he play? Funny how it took Karl Malone all those years to finally get over the hump (though he still never one with the best PG maybe ever - so I am not sure of your ranking system as it pertains to him) still found a way to make it into top 50 all time.

I fully expect along with the rest of the sane world that the 8th seed will lose to the 1 seed (or 7/2) this year and I am sure that Vegas is in line in a big way. Have fun when that happens with your peripheral vision.

How the hell did da fuka lose to Shaq/Pau/Bynum/whoever and Kobe and Duncan/Parker/Manu ...? He had NENE - don't get it. Denver was favored to kill those idiots every year.

Wiki - 2009 - Denver lost the first game of the Western Conference Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers but won the second game to tie the series 1–1. Carmelo Anthony became the first Denver player to score at least 30 points in five consecutive playoff games since the Nuggets joined the NBA in 1976. They lost the series 4–2, ending Denver's longest playoff run in team history.

Damn!

Anyway, I do agree that when a player does not win in their careers - Marino, Archie Manning, Malone, Barkley, Ewing, Elgin Baylor it is a ding on them. Sports is all about winning and thats all we care about. However, this does not always correlate to where they are ranked as player and those rankings though difficult, does not disregard context.

Montana vs Marino? Ageless argument. Fair? Don't know. But I can't believe Marino even got to play in this argument. Maybe it's because Montana had JERRY RICE, JOHN TAYLOR, BRENT JONES, ROGER CRAIG, TOM RATHMAN AND AN ALL WORLD DEFENSE. Dont know. Just sayin.

yea... Melo was the only one who showed up last year. He had one great game that ended with Paul Pierce beating him when it counted the most. That was awesome. I really want to relive that game. Every year.

If you think Melo is a superstar Im happy for you. Enjoy. He's got a 16-34 career post season record. Now your going to spin it, say that 8 years of playoffs and only advancing ONCE wasnt Melo's fault because they were the lower seed, etc etc.

Sure... thats fine.

How about we keep it to this year?

Melo admitted to not playing hard under MDA. He's not the first star who has had problems with the coach. It happens. But there is cause and effect here.
cause: Melo mails it in an has lousy game after lousy game
effect: Knicks lose, often to clearly inferior teams, costing them games in the standings.

cause: Knicks are 7th or 8th seed
effect: highly unfavorable matchup against elite established team in first round and get smoked

So you see... there are more factors than just strength of opponent come playoff time arent there? Or perhaps we should absolve Melo of fault for not playing hard and blame MDA for that? You tell me.

But hey... lets avoid Melo vs. MDA. Its not a fun topic around here and its over. Melo is here, he's our guy. The question is just what do we have? How good is this guy... is that the discussion?

So on team... team is part of it. Your 100% right. Look at Kevin Garnett. Dude was a top NBA player right? Sota always got bounced in round one until (like Melo) KG gets some help and Spree and Sam Cassell arive. So.... is Melo like KG?

Am I describing your defense of Melo's poor post record accurately? Great player, puts up #s, doesnt have the supporting crew in the postseason right?

Do you consider Melo the same caliber player as KG? Love to hear your answer here...

Glad you brought up (I did not) the Melo vs MDA "I did not try hard" and was dogging it argument and that it was his fault that we lost games. Melo was banished to the corner and it failed. Also, when did Melo ever have a stretch (injured/bad coaching) or for whatever reason like this stretch (pre-Woody)? That's where ignoring context or simply being uninhibited by facts come into play. How did he play last year after "the trade"?

As I have always said: "They are both at fault and deserve blame" NONE OF THEM GET A PASS OR SHOULDER ALL THE BLAME.

MELO IMHO is not KG - though, that does not bolster your argument (or lack-thereof) of winning vs losing / under-matched/over-matched/playoff record.

Is MELO Paul Pierce? I think he is better or at least equal (just my opinion - and thats all it is - an opinion). Swap out PP for Melo and I BELIEVE that they would have been as good or better. Playing with "the big 4" - KG, Allen, Rondo, Melo? Who was Melo's supporting cast against "the big 4"? Your answers lack content and/or substance.

Again, apples to oranges and that's why I believe these comparisons are often silly.

Not exactly true, Melo was a point forward in the beginning of the season when Douglas was our starting point guard, after Linsanity arrived (and Melo returned from the all-star break) is when MDA tried to spread the floor using Melo, now I don’t remember Melo being too cooperative and staying in the corner on a consistent basis.

I woulda stayed in the corner. Thats because I am a conformist with a low self esteem.

Man according to your comments, I truly wonder sometimes if you follow basketball at all.

Well anyway, I guess that make Amare a conformist since he stated the following
"We've just got to buy into Mike D'Antoni's system -- it works, I've been a part of it for a long time now, and it's been very successful," Stoudemire said. "We just have to buy into it and get it done. We've proven it works with the team we had before the trade, and it can work with the guys we have now. So it's just a matter of us buying into it”

Man, That guy Amare really had a low self esteem.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=howard_johnette&id=6243685

Uh ...... I don't know what to say. Please enlighten me with your knowledge and wisdom instead of making idiot comments.

I already did, please read above and try to understand it.

Way to get sarcasm my son. Let the adults talk and behave.

I have nothing to add.

Just want this mess of a quote box to take up a whole page.

OK I will behave, but if you need me to clarify any basketball, just let me know and I help you brother.

fishmike wrote:mrbigshot... I never called you names. That was in response to the guy who a) made up false things and claimed I said them and b) said I had sand in my vagina (I dont).

My true colors? What would those be? That I am pro-MDA and anti-Melo? I will repeat what I have said for however many years I have posted here. Its always about the players. Thats just me. Thats just how I feel about basketball. While people desperatly needed Chaney fired, then Lenny, then Larry, then Isiah, then MDA (and probably soon Woody) in order to fix this team I have and will continue to blame whatever issues exist with the team on the players, or at the very least primarily on the players. When the team stinks, its usually because you need better players.

I dont care what the circumstances between MDA and Melo were. The FACT is MDA failed here because he couldnt get his best player to play well. Another fact is that Melo didnt play hard for the last coach we had and it cost the Knicks games in the standings. Indy, Orl, Atl, Bos... all are about 4 games away from us. While Melo was pouting and standing in the corner we were losing games to bad teams. MDA had to go. Fine. The change needed to happen. OK.. lets all move on. But Melo bailing on the coach cost us games. Get it through your head. The Knicks PLAYERS have nobody to blame but themselves for not being a higher seed, so when we get smoked in round one the responsibility falls on the players. Are you going to blame the matchups on another failed post season? Sorry.. the players are responsible for that also.

Funny... your defense of Melo vs. MDA was he was told to stand in a corner when MDA did everything to get this guy involved at the start of the season.

Great people are still blaming MDA.

True colors... lol. Yea... good one. Im a Knick fan. I love em when they win and hate em when they lose. One thing I dont do though is blame coaches for players missing shots and getting beat by other players.

Fishmike, I apologize, I thought that was directed at me. I don't believe that you have a vagina and if you do, it occupies sand Maybe Fish? Get it Fishmike? Bad joke - sorry.

My statement of "Melo in the corner" was a silly over exaggeration meant to mimic the silly over exaggerated of "Melo dogged it and quit". I believe they are both silly and just used for propaganda purposes.

I agree that it is usually the players (for the most part) unless the coach is causing friction and/or contention and makes him about himself and, not catering to the players that he has to to stubborness. I think it is rarely about coaching skills. On this site, there are/were very few that were anti Melo and MDA or pro both. It is mostly a partisan stance with a few exceptions. By belittling Melo it states that "see, MDA was not bad it's just that Melo is an idiot" or belittling MDA as to say that it is the reason why Melo was playing badly. Both are untrue. It takes a collective effort to win and a collective effort to lose. MDA did not lose here because of Melo. He lost here for many reasons. Stat being one of them, Melo being one of them, TD being one of them ... Saying that they lost because of Melo not playing well is wrong on so many levels. He did a good job in PHX and a bad job here.

I have stated many times that Melo sucked. That Amare sucked. That MDA sucked and the defense sucked. Melo could not hit a jump shot at all!! Do you think he missed on purpose? I hate the partisanship that often defies logic.

We all just want the knicks to win. I don't blame players for a coach coaching badly or a coach for a player missing shots. It's way too simplistic and intentionally ignoring many other variables.

And again, I agree with you that coaches don't really make that much of a diff very often but there are exceptions:

PJax, Pat Riley, Pop - having a great coach that demands respect do to his record makes a huge difference. Unfortunately with todays diva's, its hard to get respect just because you're the coach.

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:The ole Triple Double...35 pts, 12 reb, 10 ast, 2 stls. And a major win against the hated Celtics in a playoff type game. Book him in the top 10!!!

Great game. You see the talent and it's MVP caliber. Nothing not to love about tonight's game

Well if he keeps playing like this stretch hes top 1

mrKnickShot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:The ole Triple Double...35 pts, 12 reb, 10 ast, 2 stls. And a major win against the hated Celtics in a playoff type game. Book him in the top 10!!!

Great game. You see the talent and it's MVP caliber. Nothing not to love about tonight's game

Well if he keeps playing like this stretch hes top 1

Shhhh..Keep it down...it's a small sample size.

Why rank him, just enjoy the game!

That first half was amazing by the knicks!

Nalod wrote:So tonite he is top 10. we gonna rank him game by game?

Why rank him, just enjoy the game!

That first half was amazing by the knicks!

Hatter