joec32033 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:If there is one thing we have noticed it is once Mike gets a rotation he sticks with it for a while. Now I agree Shumpert is not a PG. At least not a traditional Steve Nash type PG. He is a scoring D-Wade type PG (just comparing types, breathe guys). In Mike's world, a DWade style PG is a SG.

Part of this is probably who to bench. It is either Fields or Iman. They have kind of played each other to a standstill in a race for one spot.

TD was benched after how many games?

Bibby has been in and out of the line-up

Walker got significant minutes, then sat for months last year

nate was a starter, then a bench player then a starter.

Mozgov, started, sat, came off the bench, started

I can throw a few more examples at you.

Most coaches stick with their rotations and make small changes for guys that are being outplayed by guys behind them. We have no indication that anyone has been able to outplay Shump or Landy or TD and since we are all playing so bad there is no reason to single out one guy at this point. This team needs to learn to play together, not randomly shuffle guys in and out of the line-up

TD was benched after about what 2 weeks of piss poor disturbing how bad it was play. Maybe TD wasn't Mike's guy. Maybe he was the placeholder until Shumpert was ready.

All your other examples are exactly what you describe in your last comment. Bibby? Nate? Mosgov? Those are small moves.

Granted starting Lin would be a huge move. But it has come to crap or get off the pot time. I was in the same boat as you, but things are getting really bad really fast. Shumpert isn't a PG. Amare is a $100 million decoy. They played their best game in 2 weeks with their best scorer playing as a traditional PG and only scoring 1 point. The center they hired to be their defensive general-and uniquely for that purpose-is among their game scoring leaders nightly now. They are stuck in this half court/SSOL limbo with no identity.

Sealy said something about how Landry ans Shump play well together. Well, Shump has cooled off a bit, and Landry turned it around a bit(coincidentally right when Melo hit the skids and we all know the pre and post Melo trade Landry stats). And we still lost 6 of 7. We have to worry about optimizing our best players first and acclimating the role players not the other way around.

Personally I am intrigued of a Lin-Shump-Melo-Amare-Ty line.

I still think everyone is missing my point in their haste to proclaim their love for Lin. I don't care if he plays. Maybe he is killing td and bobby in practice. Maybe he's a rock star. Maybe there is an agenda against him. I'm open to those possibilities. I'm just confused as to why so many have closed their minds to the alternative. All we've seen is 25 minutes at the end of blowouts when most guys are padding stats, trying to learn the plays or avoiding getting hurt. We've never seen Lin in practice. The staff has shown time and time again the willingness to play young players. We've seen time and time again guys that we demand get time go elsewhere and do nothing. So based on all this how can we conclude that Lin is the clear starter, killing guys in practice and our staff has an agenda against him.

Nix hit the nail on the head. It took Felton almost a month to get comfortable. Give Lin time. I'm confident that if he's good he will play.

Bippity10 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

joec32033 wrote:If there is one thing we have noticed it is once Mike gets a rotation he sticks with it for a while. Now I agree Shumpert is not a PG. At least not a traditional Steve Nash type PG. He is a scoring D-Wade type PG (just comparing types, breathe guys). In Mike's world, a DWade style PG is a SG.

Part of this is probably who to bench. It is either Fields or Iman. They have kind of played each other to a standstill in a race for one spot.

TD was benched after how many games?

Bibby has been in and out of the line-up

Walker got significant minutes, then sat for months last year

nate was a starter, then a bench player then a starter.

Mozgov, started, sat, came off the bench, started

I can throw a few more examples at you.

Most coaches stick with their rotations and make small changes for guys that are being outplayed by guys behind them. We have no indication that anyone has been able to outplay Shump or Landy or TD and since we are all playing so bad there is no reason to single out one guy at this point. This team needs to learn to play together, not randomly shuffle guys in and out of the line-up

TD was benched after about what 2 weeks of piss poor disturbing how bad it was play. Maybe TD wasn't Mike's guy. Maybe he was the placeholder until Shumpert was ready.

All your other examples are exactly what you describe in your last comment. Bibby? Nate? Mosgov? Those are small moves.

Granted starting Lin would be a huge move. But it has come to crap or get off the pot time. I was in the same boat as you, but things are getting really bad really fast. Shumpert isn't a PG. Amare is a $100 million decoy. They played their best game in 2 weeks with their best scorer playing as a traditional PG and only scoring 1 point. The center they hired to be their defensive general-and uniquely for that purpose-is among their game scoring leaders nightly now. They are stuck in this half court/SSOL limbo with no identity.

Sealy said something about how Landry ans Shump play well together. Well, Shump has cooled off a bit, and Landry turned it around a bit(coincidentally right when Melo hit the skids and we all know the pre and post Melo trade Landry stats). And we still lost 6 of 7. We have to worry about optimizing our best players first and acclimating the role players not the other way around.

Personally I am intrigued of a Lin-Shump-Melo-Amare-Ty line.

Baron is back any day supposedly. There are posts saying he won't help. So why would rushing Jeremy Lin into the lineup help?

I still think everyone is missing my point in their haste to proclaim their love for Lin. I don't care if he plays. Maybe he is killing td and bobby in practice. Maybe he's a rock star. Maybe there is an agenda against him. I'm open to those possibilities. I'm just confused as to why so many have closed their minds to the alternative. All we've seen is 25 minutes at the end of blowouts when most guys are padding stats, trying to learn the plays or avoiding getting hurt. We've never seen Lin in practice. The staff has shown time and time again the willingness to play young players. We've seen time and time again guys that we demand get time go elsewhere and do nothing. So based on all this how can we conclude that Lin is the clear starter, killing guys in practice and our staff has an agenda against him.

Nix hit the nail on the head. It took Felton almost a month to get comfortable. Give Lin time. I'm confident that if he's good he will play.

Putting all the eggs on the Baron basket is risky. IMO, the team will better but Baron will be walking on egg shells. I think giving Lin something so they can see where he is at in games would be good to see if we have Baron's backup. I think TD is a back up shooting guard, and Fields should be a backup 3 to maximize him performing without Melo.

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Lin is dfntly not a NBA starter..are you seriously joking..I agree he should see some minutes, but let's get real...give me one starting pg in currently playing that Lin is better then..that list would be microscopic

You are correct....lin is not a starting calibur point guard.

To ask if he's better than established nba starters is ****ing retarded.

To answer your need to make a point....I thought Lin was just as good if not better than any point guard on the floor last night against clevland. That includes Irving, Sessions, Gibson, Bibby, Shump and Douglas.

Really, you either was high or drunk, either way your way off..

either you are blind and deaf or you have time warner cable or too broke to even have cable

No i have the nba pack on DTV...cmon who still has cable

But really dude, lin better the Irving or sessions, you picked a clip from a blow out bobcats game in garbage time to prove a point, or where you just being sarcastic..

I never said he shouldn't get minutes.. as a matter of fact, im completely loss as to why lin and NOVAK continue to be burried on the bench.

MDA is doing a terrible job at managing his rotation in this short lockout season..Waiting on Baron, are you serious..TD and AMARE didn't touch a basketball since april.Had the season started on time, neither one would have been ready. Baron will be a rusty old nail for atleast a month...

So let me make this clear, LIN deserves a shot, deserves at least 15/20 min..

So why argue if we both agree he should play?

Sessions is so good that he still can't get a starting job outwright. He could start for us today but the Knicks can't afford him especially when the dude can't really shoot it that well.

Boobie Gibson is a decent back up point guard. He's more known for shooting it. Boobie is better than TD and Bibby though.

Irving in my opinion is ok at best. Hes being allowed to lern on the fly. He has some nice skills but I look at Lin and see the same skill set. You can't stop either player from getting in the lane. Lin gets to the paint every time he tries without a song and dance either. Lin can handle with the best of them. Irving had a so so game against us. I saw him play better against better talent. I think at this point Lin could be on par with him if given the minutes. Byron Scott and the Cavs could have kept Baron to mentor Irving but opted to waive Baron and bench his more experienced point guards for a 19 year old rookie that hadn't played much over the last year....why can't Lin get that shot. Shump got his shot to play....I think Lin has proven himself worthy of playing time due to what we have seen watching him. He's out played his peers and proved in the d-league that he has game. Its shame to me that he can't get 15-20 mins....I think if he did he would be starting with Shump by now.

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

game footage from the bobcat game....

clip says it all....this ****ing guy needs to play

Catch the dope Landry Fields smile @1:28; down by 30 but you wouldn't know it looking at his face.

rp wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

game footage from the bobcat game....

clip says it all....this ****ing guy needs to play

Catch the dope Landry Fields smile @1:28; down by 30 but you wouldn't know it looking at his face.

Hahahaha, wrong game. Up by 30. I am the dopey now.

upstate wrote:More reason to play Lin for those who are unsure (Credit to madbucky on RealGM). Small sample size, but it is an indicator that Lin plays the complete game, like I have seen of him throughout college and the D League:

Knicks PER stats

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/cat/PER/new-york-knicks

Guess who ranks first and last on the Knicks in PER (Player Efficiency Rating)?

Jeremy Lin and Toney Douglas, respectively. Lin's PER is 31.3 (highest of all PGs in the NBA), the next highest on the team is Melo with 20.8 PER. Bibby is 11th on the team with 9.5 PER, TD is dead last with 7.2 PER.

I still like TD, but this also shows that TD is not meant to be a PG no matter how many years of training we give him, and we are putting him in a position to fail.

Yea, and it sucks for TD because I like the guy as a Bucket Dropper at the Two, off the bench.

upstate wrote:More reason to play Lin for those who are unsure (Credit to madbucky on RealGM). Small sample size, but it is an indicator that Lin plays the complete game, like I have seen of him throughout college and the D League:

Knicks PER stats

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/cat/PER/new-york-knicks

Guess who ranks first and last on the Knicks in PER (Player Efficiency Rating)?

Jeremy Lin and Toney Douglas, respectively. Lin's PER is 31.3 (highest of all PGs in the NBA), the next highest on the team is Melo with 20.8 PER. Bibby is 11th on the team with 9.5 PER, TD is dead last with 7.2 PER.

I still like TD, but this also shows that TD is not meant to be a PG no matter how many years of training we give him, and we are putting him in a position to fail.

LOL you're going to use the PER stat as if it means anything since he's only played in blowouts??

listen i am not against lin whatsoever, i just think if the coaches felt he deserved to play, then he would. none of us are in practice, so him not playing is just my assumption that he's not doing what they want and they see him and we don't.

upstate wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

upstate wrote:More reason to play Lin for those who are unsure (Credit to madbucky on RealGM). Small sample size, but it is an indicator that Lin plays the complete game, like I have seen of him throughout college and the D League:

Knicks PER stats

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/cat/PER/new-york-knicks

Guess who ranks first and last on the Knicks in PER (Player Efficiency Rating)?

Jeremy Lin and Toney Douglas, respectively. Lin's PER is 31.3 (highest of all PGs in the NBA), the next highest on the team is Melo with 20.8 PER. Bibby is 11th on the team with 9.5 PER, TD is dead last with 7.2 PER.

I still like TD, but this also shows that TD is not meant to be a PG no matter how many years of training we give him, and we are putting him in a position to fail.

LOL you're going to use the PER stat as if it means anything since he's only played in blowouts??

listen i am not against lin whatsoever, i just think if the coaches felt he deserved to play, then he would. none of us are in practice, so him not playing is just my assumption that he's not doing what they want and they see him and we don't.

You are right in theory, but then if the coaches were always right you would never need to fire one and we wouldn't need any of these discussion boards. I'm hoping that the reason they are not playing Lin much is that they want to prepare him some more so that he is not thrown in too early and loses his confidence. Unfortunately, I just don't think that makes sense because these days so many young PGs are given chances to play, make their mistakes, and learn from them. It's like playing any sport--if you don't get real game experience, you just won't get to improve as quickly. The question is at what point does Lin's lack of experience get surpassed by his ability relative to the other options (Bibby, Shump/TD at PG instead of SG where they should be playing, etc.) That is a matter of opinion, and so it is an interesting discussion. Of course PER in just a few minutes of game is not determinative, but it shows that he is contributing tremendously even if he doesn't "look" cool or good, as it is the results that matters.

Gotta hand it to you for being honest. So what you are saying is that messgae boards exist so fans like you can criticize the coach? Couldn' have said it better myself.