CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Crushalot, this isn't about spin. What i'm saying is that the team didn't do as well as it should, cuz you can't get Vets on final year contracts to buy into a team concept. They said the right things, but started to play selfish ball and complained cuz they wanted to make sure they could pad stats for a new contract. That's just the nature of a team full of guys with expiring contracts that know they aren't going to be here next year.

Mike's success is when he gets his team to play unselfishly and that just wasn't going to happen.

My issue has never been how the vets with expiring contracts played. My issue is with the fact that Douglas and Hill couldn't get a minute once D'Antoni settled on a rotation. That doesn't make sense to me. If everyone is leaving except for the rooks why aren't the rooks playing? I don't think any of the marginal vets that were on the team would complain if the rookies got 10 minutes a game.

You realize that you're talking about rookies? It's not like you have any proof that these guys were ready to perform early on. Hill certainly wasn't and what is he now after going somewhere else? TD was being groomed and he's coming along as a player. I just think anyone can nitpick over playing time, but it's a coach's prerogative and to be honest none of us know the truth about why guys play or don't. I do know that Mike was talking about TD getting better and his playing was inevitable.

TD still has a lot to learn and playing a lot hasn't magically made him a better PG. This is the myth that so many keep spreading. Just playing young guys doesn't make them better. HARD WORK in practice and the off season makes players better. 30 minutes of real game time isn't the same as hours and hours of practice and training. Yes you need to play to gain practical game experience but you work on new things in practice and perfect them so that you can execute in games.

Overall you can't say that Mike hasn't had success in developing his young players, cuz all the ones he's kept got better. The idea that we should get all bent out of shape over kids like Hill, Darko and AR is crazy. Maybe one day they'll really do something, but right now we aren't missing much. We'll be looking for better guys to replace them and be part of a winning, contending team.

Can't say I know all he has done the last 15 games but the team seems to have turned it around recently.

Not COY stuff, but team seems pretty good to go into the playoffs.

Not saying we upset in first round.

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:I truly believe that Mike for the most part has made the right decisions with our young players. We've gone the entire season with a 2nd rd rookie as our starting 2G. We likely would've had a rookie C for the remainder of the season if we had kept Moz. Gallo and TD got better. Walker and Shawne have improved. Overall he's been more successful than not with our young players. So Hill and AR didn't work out. They may not have been right for this situation. You can't assume that just cuz a player has some success somewhere else that they could do the same here.

Agreed.

Crush - I don't know why he didn't play Jordan Hill that's the ONLY Rookie he didn't play (unless you consider AR and Darko as rookies). Jordan Hill is a now a sub par bench player on a bad team and that tells me what I need to know about him. On the other hand he has developed young players like Gallo, Fields, Mozgov and TD and you never once give him credit for it in your rants. He also seems to be developing Sean Williams, Walker etc, who weren't even considered to be NBA players into borderline rotaion guys. Y'all nailed him on not playing Sheldem williams in the FIRST TWO games!! S Will is getting solid minutes. When AR and Darko are beasting the Wolves to a .500 let's talk.

MDA has made the best out of what he had, and what he had was a pile of bat****. You can knitpick all you like, but then again you have been missing the forrest becuase you are too busy looking at each tree in this discussiom. Just my opinion.

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:I truly believe that Mike for the most part has made the right decisions with our young players. We've gone the entire season with a 2nd rd rookie as our starting 2G. We likely would've had a rookie C for the remainder of the season if we had kept Moz. Gallo and TD got better. Walker and Shawne have improved. Overall he's been more successful than not with our young players. So Hill and AR didn't work out. They may not have been right for this situation. You can't assume that just cuz a player has some success somewhere else that they could do the same here.

Agreed.

Crush - I don't know why he didn't play Jordan Hill that's the ONLY Rookie he didn't play (unless you consider AR and Darko as rookies). Jordan Hill is a now a sub par bench player on a bad team and that tells me what I need to know about him. On the other hand he has developed young players like Gallo, Fields, Mozgov and TD and you never once give him credit for it in your rants. He also seems to be developing Sean Williams, Walker etc, who weren't even considered to be NBA players into borderline rotaion guys. Y'all nailed him on not playing Sheldem williams in the FIRST TWO games!! S Will is getting solid minutes. When AR and Darko are beasting the Wolves to a .500 let's talk.

MDA has made the best out of what he had, and what he had was a pile of bat****. You can knitpick all you like, but then again you have been missing the forrest becuase you are too busy looking at each tree in this discussiom. Just my opinion.

i think the issue is more of MDA only playing guys that fit his system than him not playing young guys. gallo and TD both were yanked around in their first yrs as MDA played rent-a-players like jon bender and al harrington over them, but that takes a back seat to WHY he played those guys over him.

MDA supporters seem to believe the circular argument he makes, which is: "don't blame me for not having good defensive teams, none of the guys i play are good defenders." yet he plays these guys BECAUSE they are good offensive players and fails to play good defenders if that is what they primarily bring to the table.

the perfect example of this is corey brewer -- a very good defender who's main strengths are good D, a lot of hustle, team play. MDA told walsh to buy him out b/c he wasn't going to play him. billy walker already had his spot -- walker is a good shooter and doesn't play much defense. corey brewer STARTED last night for the mavs (6th best record in the League, we couldn't bring this guy off the bench?) and in 30 minutes had 20 points 6 boards 6 assists 4 steals on 8 of 16 shooting (0 for 1 from 3, which is the reason why MDA told walsh to buy him out, he can't shoot the 3). he also held eric gordon to 4 of 12 from shooting and 0 for 3 from 3. (we'll need that D come playoff time).

that is a microcosm of MDA and my MAIN critique with him -- he needs to play guys that fit into his OFFENSIVE system, which results in 1-dimensional shooters over good defenders. and then he says in response to "Coach D, why are your teams so bad defensively?" with "Hey, if I had players who defended better, we'd be better, ok?"

i actually agree with VDesai -- barring doc, phil jackson, maybe a few other guys -- i think MDA has earned another year to prove that he is the right coach for this team (or in my opinion, to prove that he is the wrong coach for this team). if one of those guys becomes available, i'd fire him in a heartbeat and make them a godfather offer. will MDA be the right coach to bring this team to a Finals and to win a championship? fiction. whether that means he only lasts thru the playoffs this year or if he gets another season will likely be dictated by the status of the elite coaches with rings.

loweyecue wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:I truly believe that Mike for the most part has made the right decisions with our young players. We've gone the entire season with a 2nd rd rookie as our starting 2G. We likely would've had a rookie C for the remainder of the season if we had kept Moz. Gallo and TD got better. Walker and Shawne have improved. Overall he's been more successful than not with our young players. So Hill and AR didn't work out. They may not have been right for this situation. You can't assume that just cuz a player has some success somewhere else that they could do the same here.

Agreed.

Crush - I don't know why he didn't play Jordan Hill that's the ONLY Rookie he didn't play (unless you consider AR and Darko as rookies). Jordan Hill is a now a sub par bench player on a bad team and that tells me what I need to know about him. On the other hand he has developed young players like Gallo, Fields, Mozgov and TD and you never once give him credit for it in your rants. He also seems to be developing Sean Williams, Walker etc, who weren't even considered to be NBA players into borderline rotaion guys. Y'all nailed him on not playing Sheldem williams in the FIRST TWO games!! S Will is getting solid minutes. When AR and Darko are beasting the Wolves to a .500 let's talk.

MDA has made the best out of what he had, and what he had was a pile of bat****. You can knitpick all you like, but then again you have been missing the forrest becuase you are too busy looking at each tree in this discussiom. Just my opinion.

i think the issue is more of MDA only playing guys that fit his system than him not playing young guys. gallo and TD both were yanked around in their first yrs as MDA played rent-a-players like jon bender and al harrington over them, but that takes a back seat to WHY he played those guys over him.

MDA supporters seem to believe the circular argument he makes, which is: "don't blame me for not having good defensive teams, none of the guys i play are good defenders." yet he plays these guys BECAUSE they are good offensive players and fails to play good defenders if that is what they primarily bring to the table.

the perfect example of this is corey brewer -- a very good defender who's main strengths are good D, a lot of hustle, team play. MDA told walsh to buy him out b/c he wasn't going to play him. billy walker already had his spot -- walker is a good shooter and doesn't play much defense. corey brewer STARTED last night for the mavs (6th best record in the League, we couldn't bring this guy off the bench?) and in 30 minutes had 20 points 6 boards 6 assists 4 steals on 8 of 16 shooting (0 for 1 from 3, which is the reason why MDA told walsh to buy him out, he can't shoot the 3). he also held eric gordon to 4 of 12 from shooting and 0 for 3 from 3. (we'll need that D come playoff time).

that is a microcosm of MDA and my MAIN critique with him -- he needs to play guys that fit into his OFFENSIVE system, which results in 1-dimensional shooters over good defenders. and then he says in response to "Coach D, why are your teams so bad defensively?" with "Hey, if I had players who defended better, we'd be better, ok?"

i actually agree with VDesai -- barring doc, phil jackson, maybe a few other guys -- i think MDA has earned another year to prove that he is the right coach for this team (or in my opinion, to prove that he is the wrong coach for this team). if one of those guys becomes available, i'd fire him in a heartbeat and make them a godfather offer. will MDA be the right coach to bring this team to a Finals and to win a championship? fiction. whether that means he only lasts thru the playoffs this year or if he gets another season will likely be dictated by the status of the elite coaches with rings.

Parts of your argument are true. MDA plays players that fit his system, no one ever claimed otherwise. What I don't agree as much is he only plays players for their offense. You can't tell me Jared Jeffries started for us all year (last season) because of his offense he couldn't hit he side of a barn if his life depended on it. Mozgov wasn't exactly known for his offense, neither is Turiaf. All these players are defensive players and MDA played them, in JJ's case much more than I wanted him to. Now you guys rail on him because in your opinion "AR was an elite defensive player that fits MDAs system". and my take on that is simple when it comes to MDA's system it's his opinion that counts not yours or mine.

jeffries plays (and mozgov and turiaf)b/c he/they are tall and we need someone to at least pretend to be a C next to STAT. also, offensively, while jeffries is an awful player, he understands the spacing and knows where to be/not to get in anyone's way.

vast majority of ppl who play can shoot the corner 3 -- in phoenix, and here. sometimes he has to play other ppl for other reasons, but overall, he values O over D. (see: walker over brewer)

VDesai wrote:Fiction- wouldn't fire him unless you had a once in a generation kind of coach at your fingertips.

Knicks have been streaky this year, but they are good enough in their streakiness to get hot and knock someone out of the playoffs.

agree with this.. there aren't too many guys i'd want instead of d'antoni right now. brad stevens is one of them though...

martin wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:the perfect example of this is corey brewer -- a very good defender who's main strengths are good D, a lot of hustle, team play. MDA told walsh to buy him out b/c he wasn't going to play him. billy walker already had his spot -- walker is a good shooter and doesn't play much defense. corey brewer STARTED last night for the mavs (6th best record in the League, we couldn't bring this guy off the bench?) and in 30 minutes had 20 points 6 boards 6 assists 4 steals on 8 of 16 shooting (0 for 1 from 3, which is the reason why MDA told walsh to buy him out, he can't shoot the 3).

I guess if you brought some intellectual honesty to the picture you would have pointed out to us that Jason Kidd has been sidelined and Jason Terry hasn't played much minutes, and that Corey is just filling in. Also Corey hasn't really been apart of the rotation, right?

But since you keep harping on a player who was set to make $5M next year, do you still hold any water for your argument when the fact is the Knicks brought in Derrick Brown? You can't have both and the Brown is similar to Brewer except plays bigger, which is what the Knicks need.

You never answered my question earlier: Corey plays SG/SF. Melo, Walker, TD, Mason, Balkman, Shawne, Fields. All those guys are have a solid role or are cheaper. Why would you keep a guy who is going to make $5M next year who doesn't really add anything? Knicks need bigs.

Crickets