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[GameThread] Knicks Set to Outrun the Pacers to a W: IND @ NYK, 3/13/11, 6PM
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AnubisADL
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3/13/2011  10:09 PM
Juice wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:I hope some realize teams are going to treat us like the Heat. Teams are going to play us hard and we need other guys except Melo and Amare to step up. This is why I'm not fascinated with some of the scrubs on this team.

Hopefully we can try to trade for Mayo during the draft.

OJ Mayo does what exactly? None of the trades you ever propose improve the team. We need a defensive big man, not a SG.

OJ Mayo is an upgrade over the SG's AND PG's we have minus Billups. PG's, SG's, and C's come at a premium in this league. We need a 3rd consistent scorer. Billups is nice for now but the guy cant be expected to play major minutes for 82 games + playoffs moving forward.

OJ Mayo
- great passer
- good shooter
- High IQ player.

OJ Mayo at PG here getting tutored by Billups would be great.

lol @ living the dream thinking Mayo is a point guard. He's not, not even good enough to take the reigns away from Conley, who as I told you was improving and growing into this role as a sure fire starter.

People said Billups wasnt a good PG either.


Memphis' mistake can be a good find for us.

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Papabear
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3/13/2011  10:20 PM
Papabear Says

I watched the game till the begining of the 4th quarter then I turned it off. Body language told me that they would loose. Bad game. I'm glad we have Anthony but I enjoyed watching Gallo, Chandler, Felton, and Moz play and grow. I have mixed emotions.
I turned back during the interviews and when D'Antoni was asked about the need for a big center in the middle. D'Antoni said that we really don't need one.

Papabear
Juice
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3/13/2011  10:25 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/13/2011  11:27 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Memphis' mistake can be a good find for us.


They're a playoff team with Mayo having a limited role missing games along with Gay. What mistake have they made besides failing to get him moved to Indiana?

TymeLessKnicks
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3/13/2011  10:50 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I watched the game till the begining of the 4th quarter then I turned it off. Body language told me that they would loose. Bad game. I'm glad we have Anthony but I enjoyed watching Gallo, Chandler, Felton, and Moz play and grow. I have mixed emotions.
I turned back during the interviews and when D'Antoni was asked about the need for a big center in the middle. D'Antoni said that we really don't need one.

trade opinions aside - this team is boring on its best day.

if they are going to play this boring, old man, midrange jump shot, drag out the shot clock, iso game at least WIN!

Had enough Melo?
markvmc
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3/13/2011  10:53 PM
Agreed. Very Boring. Hope that's only a function of them not gelling yet, though.
TMS
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3/13/2011  11:34 PM
TymeLessKnicks wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I watched the game till the begining of the 4th quarter then I turned it off. Body language told me that they would loose. Bad game. I'm glad we have Anthony but I enjoyed watching Gallo, Chandler, Felton, and Moz play and grow. I have mixed emotions.
I turned back during the interviews and when D'Antoni was asked about the need for a big center in the middle. D'Antoni said that we really don't need one.

trade opinions aside - this team is boring on its best day.

if they are going to play this boring, old man, midrange jump shot, drag out the shot clock, iso game at least WIN!

i'm not sure how boring this team was when they were beating the Miami Heat, or when they were blowing the Jazz out by 20+... the effort level needs to be raised for this team to be interesting, i think it's as simple as that... when guys are hustling on the floor & playing defense they are very exciting to watch regardless if they're playing a slower half court style or SSOL.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Juice
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3/13/2011  11:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/13/2011  11:42 PM
TMS wrote:
TymeLessKnicks wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I watched the game till the begining of the 4th quarter then I turned it off. Body language told me that they would loose. Bad game. I'm glad we have Anthony but I enjoyed watching Gallo, Chandler, Felton, and Moz play and grow. I have mixed emotions.
I turned back during the interviews and when D'Antoni was asked about the need for a big center in the middle. D'Antoni said that we really don't need one.

trade opinions aside - this team is boring on its best day.

if they are going to play this boring, old man, midrange jump shot, drag out the shot clock, iso game at least WIN!

i'm not sure how boring this team was when they were beating the Miami Heat, or when they were blowing the Jazz out by 20+... the effort level needs to be raised for this team to be interesting, i think it's as simple as that... when guys are hustling on the floor & playing defense they are very exciting to watch regardless if they're playing a slower half court style or SSOL.

Maybe what he meant to say is that they are inconsistently entertaining. The majority of the 11gms post trade haven't been that entertaining.

nixluva
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3/13/2011  11:47 PM
I wasn't able to watch this game but it appears they had another flat game in a winnable situation. I was hoping for a sweep of these 2 Pacer games. This was a horrible loss. This team has to take advantage of this soft spot in the schedule. They just blew one, so now they've got to pick it up and get these other games. Pacers, Grizz, Pistons & Bucks are games this team should win.

This is not a time for the team to panic. Just focus in and get tough. The Heat had just lost a few games in a row. It's the kind of thing that can happen. Who knows what the reason is. If they can shake this off and get back on the ball, then it's just a blip on the screen. What's even more important is getting Billups back in synch and in game shape.

CrushAlot
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3/13/2011  11:51 PM
nixluva wrote:I wasn't able to watch this game but it appears they had another flat game in a winnable situation. I was hoping for a sweep of these 2 Pacer games. This was a horrible loss. This team has to take advantage of this soft spot in the schedule. They just blew one, so now they've got to pick it up and get these other games. Pacers, Grizz, Pistons & Bucks are games this team should win.

This is not a time for the team to panic. Just focus in and get tough. The Heat had just lost a few games in a row. It's the kind of thing that can happen. Who knows what the reason is. If they can shake this off and get back on the ball, then it's just a blip on the screen. What's even more important is getting Billups back in synch and in game shape.

Beck did a pretty good job of writing up this game and I was a bit less frustrated with the team after reading his perspective on the game. All in all it was a very bad loss especially because Philly lost yesterday and Atlanta won. Lets hope they figure things out for Tuesday.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
TMS
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3/13/2011  11:57 PM
Juice wrote:
TMS wrote:
TymeLessKnicks wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I watched the game till the begining of the 4th quarter then I turned it off. Body language told me that they would loose. Bad game. I'm glad we have Anthony but I enjoyed watching Gallo, Chandler, Felton, and Moz play and grow. I have mixed emotions.
I turned back during the interviews and when D'Antoni was asked about the need for a big center in the middle. D'Antoni said that we really don't need one.

trade opinions aside - this team is boring on its best day.

if they are going to play this boring, old man, midrange jump shot, drag out the shot clock, iso game at least WIN!

i'm not sure how boring this team was when they were beating the Miami Heat, or when they were blowing the Jazz out by 20+... the effort level needs to be raised for this team to be interesting, i think it's as simple as that... when guys are hustling on the floor & playing defense they are very exciting to watch regardless if they're playing a slower half court style or SSOL.

Maybe what he meant to say is that they are inconsistently entertaining. The majority of the 11gms post trade haven't been that entertaining.

i think when you're trying to incorporate 6 new guys into the rotation (including Mason & Fishlips) you have to expect games where the team isn't gelling, but there really is no excuse to explain the lack of effort we're seeing on the floor in games like this one & the other horrible losses to the Cavaliers.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Juice
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3/14/2011  12:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2011  12:11 AM
TMS wrote:
Juice wrote:
TMS wrote:
TymeLessKnicks wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I watched the game till the begining of the 4th quarter then I turned it off. Body language told me that they would loose. Bad game. I'm glad we have Anthony but I enjoyed watching Gallo, Chandler, Felton, and Moz play and grow. I have mixed emotions.
I turned back during the interviews and when D'Antoni was asked about the need for a big center in the middle. D'Antoni said that we really don't need one.

trade opinions aside - this team is boring on its best day.

if they are going to play this boring, old man, midrange jump shot, drag out the shot clock, iso game at least WIN!

i'm not sure how boring this team was when they were beating the Miami Heat, or when they were blowing the Jazz out by 20+... the effort level needs to be raised for this team to be interesting, i think it's as simple as that... when guys are hustling on the floor & playing defense they are very exciting to watch regardless if they're playing a slower half court style or SSOL.

Maybe what he meant to say is that they are inconsistently entertaining. The majority of the 11gms post trade haven't been that entertaining.

i think when you're trying to incorporate 6 new guys into the rotation (including Mason & Fishlips) you have to expect games where the team isn't gelling, but there really is no excuse to explain the lack of effort we're seeing on the floor in games like this one & the other horrible losses to the Cavaliers.

Naahhhh not against inferior competition after you got 2 wake up calls earlier in the trade from the Cavs. Not to mention wake up calls earlier in the season. This was a trade made to help strengthen our position most certainly for the now.

NO MORE EXCUSES

We've heard them for several yrs now stop trying to borrow time as a fan.

Because of THE TRADE we're trying to INCORPORATE....Mason and Fishlips...that in of itself is part of the problem. We're not some light switch team like the Lakers/Celtics/Spurs

AnubisADL
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3/14/2011  12:25 AM
The Knicks are Amare, Melo, old Billups, and role players. Now the problem is our role players shouldnt be starting and cant be depended on game to game.
NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
TMS
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3/14/2011  12:37 AM
AnubisADL wrote:The Knicks are Amare, Melo, old Billups, and role players. Now the problem is our role players shouldnt be starting and cant be depended on game to game.

i think that's bunk, no offense... the role players we have are easily capable of playing the type of defense we need to win these games against teams like the Pacers & Cavs... they've already proven they can beat teams like the Heat, Hawks, Hornets, Grizzlies, Jazz, all teams with better than .500 records... the question is why aren't they on a consistent basis against lesser teams? why are we consistently taking lesser teams for granted & letting our effort level slip so much in these games? is it really the players who are just not motivating themselves to do so or can some of the blame be placed on the coaches for not doing their jobs in getting the team prepared to play mentally against these lesser teams? i think part of the blame has to go on all parties involved... to think that the coaches bear no responsibility in preparing their teams to play at a high level & that these types of performances are all simply due to our lack of depth is oversimplification at its best... any team with Melo, STAT & Chauncey as their top 3 should be able to beat the Pacers or Cavs i don't care if the rest of the team around them are D-Leaguers.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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3/14/2011  12:39 AM
Juice wrote:
TMS wrote:
Juice wrote:
TMS wrote:
TymeLessKnicks wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I watched the game till the begining of the 4th quarter then I turned it off. Body language told me that they would loose. Bad game. I'm glad we have Anthony but I enjoyed watching Gallo, Chandler, Felton, and Moz play and grow. I have mixed emotions.
I turned back during the interviews and when D'Antoni was asked about the need for a big center in the middle. D'Antoni said that we really don't need one.

trade opinions aside - this team is boring on its best day.

if they are going to play this boring, old man, midrange jump shot, drag out the shot clock, iso game at least WIN!

i'm not sure how boring this team was when they were beating the Miami Heat, or when they were blowing the Jazz out by 20+... the effort level needs to be raised for this team to be interesting, i think it's as simple as that... when guys are hustling on the floor & playing defense they are very exciting to watch regardless if they're playing a slower half court style or SSOL.

Maybe what he meant to say is that they are inconsistently entertaining. The majority of the 11gms post trade haven't been that entertaining.

i think when you're trying to incorporate 6 new guys into the rotation (including Mason & Fishlips) you have to expect games where the team isn't gelling, but there really is no excuse to explain the lack of effort we're seeing on the floor in games like this one & the other horrible losses to the Cavaliers.

Naahhhh not against inferior competition after you got 2 wake up calls earlier in the trade from the Cavs. Not to mention wake up calls earlier in the season. This was a trade made to help strengthen our position most certainly for the now.

NO MORE EXCUSES

We've heard them for several yrs now stop trying to borrow time as a fan.

Because of THE TRADE we're trying to INCORPORATE....Mason and Fishlips...that in of itself is part of the problem. We're not some light switch team like the Lakers/Celtics/Spurs

for the most part i agree there really is no excuse for this type of lack of effort in these games it's mindboggling to me how a team w/this much talent can lose to teams like the Cavs & Pacers.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nixluva
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3/14/2011  12:48 AM
I hate to draw too many conclusions off of what we've seen so far. 11 games and we haven't had the full team playing for much of it. If the team goes on to win the next few games it really won't have any lasting relevance. I still feel like this team is going to eventually be playing some really good ball by the end of the season. This was a bad game, but let's not give it too much importance. It's not about one or 2 games. This team has to stop playing down to the level of the competition and learn to come out strong every game. I think once Billups gets his legs and game back it should help.
Juice
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3/14/2011  12:48 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2011  12:50 AM
TMS wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:The Knicks are Amare, Melo, old Billups, and role players. Now the problem is our role players shouldnt be starting and cant be depended on game to game.

i think that's bunk, no offense... the role players we have are easily capable of playing the type of defense we need to win these games against teams like the Pacers & Cavs... they've already proven they can beat teams like the Heat, Hawks, Hornets, Grizzlies, Jazz, all teams with better than .500 records... the question is why aren't they on a consistent basis against lesser teams? why are we consistently taking lesser teams for granted & letting our effort level slip so much in these games? is it really the players who are just not motivating themselves to do so or can some of the blame be placed on the coaches for not doing their jobs in getting the team prepared to play mentally against these lesser teams? i think part of the blame has to go on all parties involved... to think that the coaches bear no responsibility in preparing their teams to play at a high level & that these types of performances are all simply due to our lack of depth is oversimplification at its best... any team with Melo, STAT & Chauncey as their top 3 should be able to beat the Pacers or Cavs i don't care if the rest of the team around them are D-Leaguers.

I thought the early analysis looking at offensive statistics say the team is flourishing offensively and players numbers are up? This includes role players right?

Really the reason we look mediocre is because of Amar'e and Melo's defense.....

Hansbrough
Hibbert
Jones
Smardo
Hickson
Jamison
Enyenga
Parker
Richardson
Howard
Marion

All of these players had way too big an impact on games we lost since the trade and most of them are covers by Amar'e and Melo. Now don't get me wrong they didn't match them minute for minute but for the bulk of the time during the games they did. I should throw Jameer Nelson in there but it might be too small a sample to include him as a slight on Billups....nevertheless he was horrific in checking him in Orlando. Our Big 3 just isn't that special of a defensively.

BlueSeats
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3/14/2011  8:48 AM
Killa4luv wrote:if there is one flaw in D'antoni's system it is this. when the jumpers are not falling what is the plan b?

This.

And the defense can't be as capricious as the jumpers. Some nights the D is acceptable, others not. You can't count on you're players being hot offensively but defense s something that needs to be count-on-able.

Plus we're paper thin, especially up front. Never should have given up both Randolph and Mosgov. Neither are defensive stalwarts, but jeez, they can rebound and foul.

fishmike
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3/14/2011  9:04 AM
BlueSeats wrote:
Killa4luv wrote:if there is one flaw in D'antoni's system it is this. when the jumpers are not falling what is the plan b?

This.

And the defense can't be as capricious as the jumpers. Some nights the D is acceptable, others not. You can't count on you're players being hot offensively but defense s something that needs to be count-on-able.

Plus we're paper thin, especially up front. Never should have given up both Randolph and Mosgov. Neither are defensive stalwarts, but jeez, they can rebound and foul.

Amare is a below average rebounder. Melo is decent, neither players are very good defensively so if we are built around these two guys whats the plan?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BlueSeats
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3/14/2011  9:49 AM
fishmike wrote:
BlueSeats wrote:
Killa4luv wrote:if there is one flaw in D'antoni's system it is this. when the jumpers are not falling what is the plan b?

This.

And the defense can't be as capricious as the jumpers. Some nights the D is acceptable, others not. You can't count on you're players being hot offensively but defense s something that needs to be count-on-able.

Plus we're paper thin, especially up front. Never should have given up both Randolph and Mosgov. Neither are defensive stalwarts, but jeez, they can rebound and foul.

Amare is a below average rebounder. Melo is decent, neither players are very good defensively so if we are built around these two guys whats the plan?

For this to work it's going to require that Amare and Melo become above average defenders. No two ways abut it. But the same would hold true of Amare + Gallo/Chandler. Some of it they're going to be responsible for bringing themselves, the rest is going to have to come from coaching, the system, and the support cast.

I don't begrudge anyone who feels otherwise, but I'm okay with Billups, Fields, Melo and Amare at the 1-4 if we can come up with a viable 5 and bench rotation.

But while many analysts say Mosgov couldn't be a deal-breaker I disagree. Or let Denver be the one's making that determination. We needed a big more than them, plus, if nothing else, we need him as a trade chip. And if you do give him up then retain draft picks. All in all, the organization seemed rather patient throughout the negotiations up until Dolan got involved, then we caved precipitously.

We're not built for this year, I don't know the solution; Donnie's got his work cut out for him, assuming he's re-signed.

Meanwhile, I'm looking for some heart - floor-burns is always a good place to start. You hear that Melo/Fields/Douglas/Williams/Mason/et al? Floor burns.

fishmike
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3/14/2011  10:58 AM
BlueSeats wrote:
fishmike wrote:
BlueSeats wrote:
Killa4luv wrote:if there is one flaw in D'antoni's system it is this. when the jumpers are not falling what is the plan b?

This.

And the defense can't be as capricious as the jumpers. Some nights the D is acceptable, others not. You can't count on you're players being hot offensively but defense s something that needs to be count-on-able.

Plus we're paper thin, especially up front. Never should have given up both Randolph and Mosgov. Neither are defensive stalwarts, but jeez, they can rebound and foul.

Amare is a below average rebounder. Melo is decent, neither players are very good defensively so if we are built around these two guys whats the plan?

For this to work it's going to require that Amare and Melo become above average defenders. No two ways abut it. But the same would hold true of Amare + Gallo/Chandler. Some of it they're going to be responsible for bringing themselves, the rest is going to have to come from coaching, the system, and the support cast.

I don't begrudge anyone who feels otherwise, but I'm okay with Billups, Fields, Melo and Amare at the 1-4 if we can come up with a viable 5 and bench rotation.

But while many analysts say Mosgov couldn't be a deal-breaker I disagree. Or let Denver be the one's making that determination. We needed a big more than them, plus, if nothing else, we need him as a trade chip. And if you do give him up then retain draft picks. All in all, the organization seemed rather patient throughout the negotiations up until Dolan got involved, then we caved precipitously.

We're not built for this year, I don't know the solution; Donnie's got his work cut out for him, assuming he's re-signed.

Meanwhile, I'm looking for some heart - floor-burns is always a good place to start. You hear that Melo/Fields/Douglas/Williams/Mason/et al? Floor burns.

thats a bad plan.. and I'm not taking a shot at you, I agree, but asking 2 NBA all star players to start doing things they havent done at this point in their careers to be successful sounds shaky. Who is going to hold them to that? I dont think MDA or any coach has that clout.

We have two of the top 5(ish) scorers in the NBA. How do you build around that? Neither are elite rebounders, defenders or playmakers... it will be interesting to say the least

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
[GameThread] Knicks Set to Outrun the Pacers to a W: IND @ NYK, 3/13/11, 6PM

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