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Breaking News....Deron Williams 2 Nets
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crzymdups
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2/23/2011  12:58 PM
sportsguy33 Bill Simmons
Good lord, I didn't realize Jersey hadn't signed Williams to an extension yet. Gotta love Mutant Russian Mark Cuban!!!
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SupremeCommander
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2/23/2011  1:00 PM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:The minutes HAVE TO BE factored in, as well as his age and the pace he will be asked to play. Look, i'm not upset that Chauncey Billups is going to be giving the Knicks 30 MPG. But what's going to happen when he has to play 42 the first night of a back-to-back

Pace is relatively the same.

And he averages 32.3m a game. Last year he averaged 35. The difference is likely more due to Lawson being a very capable back-up.

Nash is averaging 33.3.

Kidd 33.7.

Playing the age card is pretty weak.

If there is evidence that Chauncey Billups can't 33m a night, produce it.

"34" doesn't cut the mustard.

age is a huge factor and Billups isnt a long term solution. His play has tailed off because he's not the defensive player he was 2-3 years ago.

Billups is a short term upgrade, but Felton was a good fall back option if we couldnt sign or trade for a star PG. Thats exhasted now. Same with Mosgov at center. Would have been nice to keep one of those guys but thus is life

Age is a huge factor. But no one should point to stats - Felton averaged 12pts and 5assists before coming here. Mike's system pumps up PG numbers. I bet Chauncey averages 18ppg and 9apg the rest of this season in NY. Mike's system is a point guard's dream - as is playing with Amar'e.

one of you said pace is the same, yet the other says Pringles' system pumps up numbers... I'm confused

I cannot stress age enough. Seemingly every PG Mike has played outside of Nash breaks down and gets injured... probably not a coincidence that Nash does some crazy fitness/nutrition stuff. So, great, Billups puts up 18 and 9 for the rest of the season and breaks down in the playoffs

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Markji
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2/23/2011  1:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2011  1:05 PM
We did better by our trade with Denver than we would have gotten with Deron W. First, we got 2 All Stars in Melo and Billups. As much as I like Felton and what he brought to this team, Billups is better for this year and next. We have 3 elite scorers, not just 2.

Also I like some of the other parts/role players we got - namely Anthony Carter and Sheldon Williams who fill our needs at backup PG and back up C/PF. So KOT, I agree with you on some of this trade.

However, why we accepted Renaldo Balkman back is beyond me. He has only played in 18 games in the past 2 years averaging less than 8 min/game. The only person who really likes Balkman is .....well, Isiah. I had to slip that in.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
VCoug
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2/23/2011  1:03 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:The minutes HAVE TO BE factored in, as well as his age and the pace he will be asked to play. Look, i'm not upset that Chauncey Billups is going to be giving the Knicks 30 MPG. But what's going to happen when he has to play 42 the first night of a back-to-back

Pace is relatively the same.

And he averages 32.3m a game. Last year he averaged 35. The difference is likely more due to Lawson being a very capable back-up.

Nash is averaging 33.3.

Kidd 33.7.

Playing the age card is pretty weak.

If there is evidence that Chauncey Billups can't 33m a night, produce it.

"34" doesn't cut the mustard.

age is a huge factor and Billups isnt a long term solution. His play has tailed off because he's not the defensive player he was 2-3 years ago.

Billups is a short term upgrade, but Felton was a good fall back option if we couldnt sign or trade for a star PG. Thats exhasted now. Same with Mosgov at center. Would have been nice to keep one of those guys but thus is life

Age is a huge factor. But no one should point to stats - Felton averaged 12pts and 5assists before coming here. Mike's system pumps up PG numbers. I bet Chauncey averages 18ppg and 9apg the rest of this season in NY. Mike's system is a point guard's dream - as is playing with Amar'e.

one of you said pace is the same, yet the other says Pringles' system pumps up numbers... I'm confused

I cannot stress age enough. Seemingly every PG Mike has played outside of Nash breaks down and gets injured... probably not a coincidence that Nash does some crazy fitness/nutrition stuff. So, great, Billups puts up 18 and 9 for the rest of the season and breaks down in the playoffs

I don't remember reading anything that said Duhon or Felton were playing hurt under MDA. Isn't it more like that their reduced numbers had more to do with regressing to the mean as opposed to some phantom injury?

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
Knickoftime
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2/23/2011  1:03 PM
Rookie wrote:can't rule out the Knicks on Howard...a rotation of Melo/Amare/a 36 y.o Billups and Howard would be pretty darn good

i don't like the Knicks odds for Howard.

Pure cap space signing is going to be tough.

I'm more in the trade-for-Paul camp as the knicks next move.

Remember when Paul made his toast, over time people began to write it off as just a wedding toast joke.

But 'melo is now on the KNicks.

There may be more to it than skeptical Knicks fans and NBA pundits are allowing themselves to believe.

Knicks can line-up for a cap slot but make a play for a trade a year from now.

umynot
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2/23/2011  1:06 PM
VCoug wrote:
umynot wrote:I'm in SHOCK

Russian dude is no joke!!

First he raises price on Melo then he 1 ups us by getting D WIll at a cheaper price

This back and forth is def good for both sides IMHO

Dolan go get CP3 tonight and I'll be super thrilled

Trade Billups Walker and Azu plus cash and picks!!

We have 24 hrs left so giggy up!!

How did they get Deron at a cheaper price?

Harris = Felton
Favors' potential nearly = Gallo's potential
2 lottery picks = Chandler/Mozgov

To me it looks like they Knicks and Nets gave up nearly the same amount for two of the best players in the league.

They got D Will cheaper then what they offered for Melo

They offered 4 1st rounders to up the price on us

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
SupremeCommander
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2/23/2011  1:10 PM
VCoug wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:The minutes HAVE TO BE factored in, as well as his age and the pace he will be asked to play. Look, i'm not upset that Chauncey Billups is going to be giving the Knicks 30 MPG. But what's going to happen when he has to play 42 the first night of a back-to-back

Pace is relatively the same.

And he averages 32.3m a game. Last year he averaged 35. The difference is likely more due to Lawson being a very capable back-up.

Nash is averaging 33.3.

Kidd 33.7.

Playing the age card is pretty weak.

If there is evidence that Chauncey Billups can't 33m a night, produce it.

"34" doesn't cut the mustard.

age is a huge factor and Billups isnt a long term solution. His play has tailed off because he's not the defensive player he was 2-3 years ago.

Billups is a short term upgrade, but Felton was a good fall back option if we couldnt sign or trade for a star PG. Thats exhasted now. Same with Mosgov at center. Would have been nice to keep one of those guys but thus is life

Age is a huge factor. But no one should point to stats - Felton averaged 12pts and 5assists before coming here. Mike's system pumps up PG numbers. I bet Chauncey averages 18ppg and 9apg the rest of this season in NY. Mike's system is a point guard's dream - as is playing with Amar'e.

one of you said pace is the same, yet the other says Pringles' system pumps up numbers... I'm confused

I cannot stress age enough. Seemingly every PG Mike has played outside of Nash breaks down and gets injured... probably not a coincidence that Nash does some crazy fitness/nutrition stuff. So, great, Billups puts up 18 and 9 for the rest of the season and breaks down in the playoffs

I don't remember reading anything that said Duhon or Felton were playing hurt under MDA. Isn't it more like that their reduced numbers had more to do with regressing to the mean as opposed to some phantom injury?

Felton failing to make All-Star case
With trip to L.A. at stake, Knicks point guard struggling at worst possible time
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By Ian Begley
Special to ESPNNewYork.com
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Mavs Run Past Knicks, 113-97
Dirk Nowitzki's 29 points power Mavericks to 6th straight win
Tags: Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Kidd, Tyson Chandler, Amare Stoudemire, Fantasy NBA, New York Knicks, Dallas Mavericks
NEW YORK -- If Raymond Felton gets an invite to the All-Star Game, he certainly didn't earn it with his play against the Dallas Mavericks on Wednesday night.


Raymond Felton has to hope coaches have been too busy filling out their All-Star ballots to keep a close eye on him lately.
The point guard finished with 11 points on 4-of-14 shooting as the New York Knicks were manhandled by the Mavs in a 113-97 blowout loss.

After the game, Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni suggested Felton has been bothered by a hand injury he suffered against the Boston Celtics on Dec. 15.

But Felton didn't want to use the injury as a defense for what he did (or didn't do) against Dallas.

"I'm battling an injury but I'm out there on the court, so there's no excuse," he said.

Felton is likely battling guards Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen and Joe Johnson for a reserve spot on the Eastern Conference All-Star squad. The remaining seven spots are voted on by the coaches, with the results announced Thursday.

No coach can vote for his own player, but you have to wonder if Felton would even get a vote from D'Antoni after his inconsistent play recently.

Felton, who seemed like a strong candidate for an All-Star spot in late December, has done plenty of damage to his candidacy over the past five weeks, the latest example being his sub-par night against Dallas.

At times in 2011, Felton has been as icy as Manhattan street corners in this particularly cold winter. He's shot under 40 percent in 12 of the Knicks' past 16 games. He's reached his season average (17.2 points per game) just six times since Jan. 2, when he went off for 28 points against the Spurs.

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His scoring average has dipped by a full point since then and his assist average has also taken a hit.

"His hand is still bothering him, swollen up pretty good," D'Antoni said. "But I just don't think it makes a difference. Obviously, it would be nice to hit all his shots, but we have to be a little bit more aggressive on the defensive end and get into people and want it a little bit more than them."

Making matters worse on Wednesday, Felton's Dallas counterparts, Jose Juan Barea and Jason Kidd, outscored him 15-2 during the Mavs' decisive 26-6 run early in the third quarter. To be fair, both Barea and Kidd were on the floor at the same time. But Felton's missed layup with 9:53 to go in the third -- early in the Mavs' run -- could have pulled the Knicks within four. Three minutes later, they were down 15. Less than three minutes later, the Knicks trailed by 24.

"We get down on a team like that, [24] points, it's tough," Felton said. "They're one of the best teams in the league, one of the best teams in the West, so it's hard to come back on a team like that."

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Like a politician stumbling as Election Day approaches, Felton's played his worst at the worst possible time as he attempts to make his first All-Star team.

He seems to be nonchalant about the opportunity.

"We'll see what happens," Felton said. "If I'm there, great. If I'm not, great. Life still goes on."

If he gets the nod Thursday, the coaches voting for him likely would have ignored what they saw from Felton on Wednesday night and the weeks before it.

Ian Begley is a regular contributor to ESPNNewYork.com.

maybe y'all should stop being revisionist historians

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Knickoftime
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2/23/2011  1:10 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:I cannot stress age enough. Seemingly every PG Mike has played outside of Nash breaks down and gets injured... probably not a coincidence that Nash does some crazy fitness/nutrition stuff. So, great, Billups puts up 18 and 9 for the rest of the season and breaks down in the playoffs

2 vs 1 is not evidence anyone serious-minded can put much weight into.

And c'mon, it's not like Duhon bounced back this year. He's been AWFUL for the Magic.

I don't completely discount fatigue, but I also put weight in adjustment. Teams eventually figured out how to stop Duhon and Felton on the pick and roll, and their production never recovered.

I like Billups odds of having more tools to go to when he has to adjust, if for nothing else he's much more experienced, savvy, intelligent and a better shooter.

The shooting behind the arc will be HUGE for the Knicks, if Billups keeps it up.

umynot
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2/23/2011  1:13 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Rookie wrote:can't rule out the Knicks on Howard...a rotation of Melo/Amare/a 36 y.o Billups and Howard would be pretty darn good

i don't like the Knicks odds for Howard.

Pure cap space signing is going to be tough.

I'm more in the trade-for-Paul camp as the knicks next move.

Remember when Paul made his toast, over time people began to write it off as just a wedding toast joke.

But 'melo is now on the KNicks.

There may be more to it than skeptical Knicks fans and NBA pundits are allowing themselves to believe.

Knicks can line-up for a cap slot but make a play for a trade a year from now.

I say get both

Knicks are richest team in NBA even b4 adding Amare and Melo

Celtics Lakers and Magic are way over Cap

We Have 2 pieces of the puzzle and CAP ROOM

Now if we can get CP3 now we might be able to somehow swing a move for Dwight with
a third team giving up a trade exemption to save money and get picks

Just saying being over the Cap wont hurt us if we have 3 or 4 Superstars

Actually if we can pull this off we might make BILLLIONS so paying 100 million in
salary's wont mean a thing to us!!

Ohhh and we would be unbeatable!!

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
crzymdups
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2/23/2011  1:14 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I cannot stress age enough. Seemingly every PG Mike has played outside of Nash breaks down and gets injured... probably not a coincidence that Nash does some crazy fitness/nutrition stuff. So, great, Billups puts up 18 and 9 for the rest of the season and breaks down in the playoffs

2 vs 1 is not evidence anyone serious-minded can put much weight into.

And c'mon, it's not like Duhon bounced back this year. He's been AWFUL for the Magic.

I don't completely discount fatigue, but I also put weight in adjustment. Teams eventually figured out how to stop Duhon and Felton on the pick and roll, and their production never recovered.

I like Billups odds of having more tools to go to when he has to adjust, if for nothing else he's much more experienced, savvy, intelligent and a better shooter.

The shooting behind the arc will be HUGE for the Knicks, if Billups keeps it up.

I agree that minutes will be a concern for Chauncey - he can't be the horse that Raymond was.

BUT, the value of having Melo is that he can essentially run the offense for long stretches and give Billups some rest in games. End of first quarter to mid second and end of third quarter to mid fourth we can basically run the Carmelo Offense and have Toney "run the point" aka dump it in to Melo.

Carmelo takes a break, STAT and Billups come in for some pick and roll. Two totally different looks. Will be brutal to defend.

Miami basically has stretches where Wade rests and Bron takes over and vice versa. We can do the same thing here.

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knickstorrents
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2/23/2011  1:14 PM
Knickoftime wrote:Rebuilding teams like lottery picks.

I think this deal was driven by the realities of the upcoming CBA. They are now in a very good position to handle whatever the new agreement might bring. I think they realized they weren't going to win it all with the roster they had, so they decided to go into rebuilding mode.

This is a very good move for the Jazz.

Rose is not the answer.
umynot
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2/23/2011  1:15 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I cannot stress age enough. Seemingly every PG Mike has played outside of Nash breaks down and gets injured... probably not a coincidence that Nash does some crazy fitness/nutrition stuff. So, great, Billups puts up 18 and 9 for the rest of the season and breaks down in the playoffs

2 vs 1 is not evidence anyone serious-minded can put much weight into.

And c'mon, it's not like Duhon bounced back this year. He's been AWFUL for the Magic.

I don't completely discount fatigue, but I also put weight in adjustment. Teams eventually figured out how to stop Duhon and Felton on the pick and roll, and their production never recovered.

I like Billups odds of having more tools to go to when he has to adjust, if for nothing else he's much more experienced, savvy, intelligent and a better shooter.

The shooting behind the arc will be HUGE for the Knicks, if Billups keeps it up.


Billups is an upgrade over Felton hands down!!

Felton will not start again in NBA

He will be a serviceable career back up

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
CrushAlot
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2/23/2011  1:16 PM
Ford is saying the Nets pick is unprotected. This might not be a bad move for the Jazz.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
umynot
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2/23/2011  1:18 PM
knickstorrents wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Rebuilding teams like lottery picks.

I think this deal was driven by the realities of the upcoming CBA. They are now in a very good position to handle whatever the new agreement might bring. I think they realized they weren't going to win it all with the roster they had, so they decided to go into rebuilding mode.

This is a very good move for the Jazz.

Is it?

You lose D Will and get Harris?

Favors gets minutes in Utah?..... Over Millsap?

This was a loss for Utah but this was pay back for Sloan

Plain and simple...... Utah's GM and King are friends

Thats how this happened

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
NYKBocker
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2/23/2011  1:18 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Ford is saying the Nets pick is unprotected. This might not be a bad move for the Jazz.

Do they go Perry Jones or Derrick Williams. I guess we have to wait for March Madness to see who is the better player.

umynot
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2/23/2011  1:18 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Ford is saying the Nets pick is unprotected. This might not be a bad move for the Jazz.

This year?

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
chislic
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2/23/2011  1:19 PM
This deal probably took place a few days ago. (Pigeons can fly on average 50 mph. New Jersey to Utah is about 2169 miles.)
SupremeCommander
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2/23/2011  1:20 PM
umynot wrote: Felton will not start again in NBA

this is getting ridiculous

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
crzymdups
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2/23/2011  1:22 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
umynot wrote: Felton will not start again in NBA

this is getting ridiculous

Agreed. Felton isn't great, but he is surely a top 15 point guard in this league. He is a LEADER and will probably get that Denver team into the playoffs.

I love Ray, I won't besmirch him.

Chauncey might be slightly better right now though.

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Knickoftime
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2/23/2011  1:24 PM
umynot wrote: I say get both

Knicks are richest team in NBA even b4 adding Amare and Melo

Celtics Lakers and Magic are way over Cap

We Have 2 pieces of the puzzle and CAP ROOM

Now if we can get CP3 now we might be able to somehow swing a move for Dwight with
a third team giving up a trade exemption to save money and get picks

Just saying being over the Cap wont hurt us if we have 3 or 4 Superstars

Actually if we can pull this off we might make BILLLIONS so paying 100 million in
salary's wont mean a thing to us!!

Ohhh and we would be unbeatable!!

I appreciate your enthusiasm but the Knicks can't get both. It's a mathematical certainty if you understand the cap.

That said, look at 2012 NBA salaries, particularly the Celtics. I suggest this as an excellent resource.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/celtics.jsp

Celtics potentially have Garnett and Allen coming off the books. The literally have 2 contracts (Pierce and Garnett) guaranteed for 2012, with Rondo's very reasonable contract being one of them.

They play their cards right, and they can make two more passed with their current team and then reload in 2012.

Breaking News....Deron Williams 2 Nets

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