Nalod wrote:Its not the worst in history. The Warriors used the Pick to take Joe Barry Carroll as the overall no. 1 pick.

The Division among the fans here is really about some being OK with an uncertain future because we had young players we liked and rooted to succeed with. They played in the coaches system. They were not contenders but a good rising team. The last 10 games Mozgov was giving glimps of a defensive presence and it was freeing Amare up.

We still have an uncertain future and still wanting in some area's.

Sorry to use the "s" word but the trade did bring about a "Starphuch" like buzz about the team. The expectations when you trade half your team of likable players for a "Star" is high. The curious tuned in and I would hope the idiot dolan didn't think it would last based on star viewing along. Things like "winning" is what drives it.

Nalod didn't watch the fist 50 games just to see if they won. I watched to see our guys play. Not all the games were pretty mind you but it was a very young team with 10 new players and the chemistry was building. All the while in the back drop was this "the trade" lurking all season.

So what does Nalod do? I kind of get the trade although its not one I would have made. Don't mean I hated it, just confused like most people over the misinformation over who had leverage and who did not.

My expectations have been pretty low for this season as our roster is more fundamentally flawed than before. Billups is a fine player but maybe beyond his prime. Maybe he was slowing down denver also but it was a tough contract to move and he has ties to the area. He is ours now and perhaps not the best player to run SSOL which is MDA's thing. Felton was great and a proper back up to reduce his minutes was what was needed.

Melo is a great player. No doubt. With "Stars" we have a higher ceiling. I can live with that. I can also live the fact we traded our only real center in MOZ and at best he was emerging, so its not like we "gave up much" but what we gave up we don't have in reserve at the moment so we took a step backwards in this area.

Its my observation the expectations after trade and calling for MDA's head may have some merit. The guy AGAIN has a roster full of players and its not a roster that plays to his strength. We are fundsmentally flawed.

So where do we go? Fire the coach because this is our roster for the next two years and bring in a defensive coach? Then when the offense sputters go back? Finish the roster over time to fulfill the MDA vision of SSOL under a team concept with players suitable to the task?

First things first, if we at best were only going to be a 6-7 seed even with our yoots and get bounced in the first round BUT still think it was a measurable improvement over last year then we are no better off but still have "stars" for the upside. I can live with that.

If we think that by just adding stars we should expect more right away then I find that not as enjoyable. I don't like losing either but the calling for MDA during a time of transition and change makes the whole fan experience not that much fun for me.

As a knick fan I have to live with impatience and the fact you can't rebuild in NY. Sad thing because we have not had enough success to warrant this. We don't tolerate rebuilding but I don't see any great champion teams either.

Most fans react to what they see. I expect UK'ers to anticipate more. I am surprised how high some expectations are for this team post trade.

Its my opinion the trade is still incomplete until the roster is filled out. Either get MDA his type of players or he should leave.

Nalod, great post and I agree with most of the (insightful) content. However, it can't be that open ended. Where do we draw the line? Does he need a good showing in the playoffs? A good year next year? Or, bad year next year since we are waiting for the summer of 2012 to sign another star and then we need to wait through another transition period?

Tough call. I guess the question is: do we in our hearts truly believe that this man is the right coach for the job. If not, why waste our time. If a team is not winning, there will always be trades and "transition periods".

It's an infinite loop.

Silverfuel wrote:its feels like some that were against the trade are a bit happy that we are losing because they get to say i told you so.

No Silverfuel--not happy 1 iota--in fact I think it sucks. I know we have to deal with the cards on the table now---nothing getting around that and we have two really good players + fields and Douglas--its not awful--we have something 2 work with here no doubt about it BUT its not what we paid for. You dont pay a kings ransom and regress & watch the other team succeed. This has become clear to me now--pure money move based on an attempt by the owner to leverage the acquisition of melo to MAKE YOU the fan the person responsible for paying for his new garden. thats what Melo is. Melo was selfish and so was our owner. This is the first time in almost 40 years of beinga super fan that I find things less palatable. I don't really enjoy the games for some reason--I think I just know like fishmike said--we gave up what was ours for th spirit iof corporate greed--could not be patient and thats just too bad. People dont bash things they love for the fun of it--they bash because they are upset with it.

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:Its not the worst in history. The Warriors used the Pick to take Joe Barry Carroll as the overall no. 1 pick.

The Division among the fans here is really about some being OK with an uncertain future because we had young players we liked and rooted to succeed with. They played in the coaches system. They were not contenders but a good rising team. The last 10 games Mozgov was giving glimps of a defensive presence and it was freeing Amare up.

We still have an uncertain future and still wanting in some area's.

Sorry to use the "s" word but the trade did bring about a "Starphuch" like buzz about the team. The expectations when you trade half your team of likable players for a "Star" is high. The curious tuned in and I would hope the idiot dolan didn't think it would last based on star viewing along. Things like "winning" is what drives it.

Nalod didn't watch the fist 50 games just to see if they won. I watched to see our guys play. Not all the games were pretty mind you but it was a very young team with 10 new players and the chemistry was building. All the while in the back drop was this "the trade" lurking all season.

So what does Nalod do? I kind of get the trade although its not one I would have made. Don't mean I hated it, just confused like most people over the misinformation over who had leverage and who did not.

My expectations have been pretty low for this season as our roster is more fundamentally flawed than before. Billups is a fine player but maybe beyond his prime. Maybe he was slowing down denver also but it was a tough contract to move and he has ties to the area. He is ours now and perhaps not the best player to run SSOL which is MDA's thing. Felton was great and a proper back up to reduce his minutes was what was needed.

Melo is a great player. No doubt. With "Stars" we have a higher ceiling. I can live with that. I can also live the fact we traded our only real center in MOZ and at best he was emerging, so its not like we "gave up much" but what we gave up we don't have in reserve at the moment so we took a step backwards in this area.

Its my observation the expectations after trade and calling for MDA's head may have some merit. The guy AGAIN has a roster full of players and its not a roster that plays to his strength. We are fundsmentally flawed.

So where do we go? Fire the coach because this is our roster for the next two years and bring in a defensive coach? Then when the offense sputters go back? Finish the roster over time to fulfill the MDA vision of SSOL under a team concept with players suitable to the task?

First things first, if we at best were only going to be a 6-7 seed even with our yoots and get bounced in the first round BUT still think it was a measurable improvement over last year then we are no better off but still have "stars" for the upside. I can live with that.

If we think that by just adding stars we should expect more right away then I find that not as enjoyable. I don't like losing either but the calling for MDA during a time of transition and change makes the whole fan experience not that much fun for me.

As a knick fan I have to live with impatience and the fact you can't rebuild in NY. Sad thing because we have not had enough success to warrant this. We don't tolerate rebuilding but I don't see any great champion teams either.

Most fans react to what they see. I expect UK'ers to anticipate more. I am surprised how high some expectations are for this team post trade.

Its my opinion the trade is still incomplete until the roster is filled out. Either get MDA his type of players or he should leave.

Nalod, great post and I agree with most of the (insightful) content. However, it can't be that open ended. Where do we draw the line? Does he need a good showing in the playoffs? A good year next year? Or, bad year next year since we are waiting for the summer of 2012 to sign another star and then we need to wait through another transition period?

Tough call. I guess the question is: do we in our hearts truly believe that this man is the right coach for the job. If not, why waste our time. If a team is not winning, there will always be trades and "transition periods".

It's an infinite loop.

Good question. I don't think the immediate "Disasater" is avoidable nor do I know the answer and like fishmike really don't have the passion I did a few weeks ago. I know Moz just standing there would be more effective against Hibbert.

Height matters.

I know Feltons quickness gave teams fits.

I think MDA is not about adjusting to teams but they need to adjust to us. Amare and Melo should be unstoppable and if the players are not hitting their assignments then its just gonna take hard work and practice to work things thru.

Stars have earned the right to "talk" but they have to step it up.

Phil Jax lets his players work it out. He does not yell and scream he lets the game plan do its thing. No, MDA is not Phil but Stars are suppose to on a higher level.

To answer your question I let MDA handle his own destiny. If you don't get him the players or can't then he should walk. If the knicks think they want Cp3 and can get some height in here then you play it out.

nyk4ever wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:its feels like some that were against the trade are a bit happy that we are losing because they get to say i told you so.

Not me. I actually feel quite deflated. and quite frankly, my interest level is very slowly starting to decrease.

You mean the SSOL-ND doesn't get you allllll fired up?!!!?

incase you didn't notice - this team isn't playing SSOL anymore, d'antoni adjusted his offensive attack to fit melo and amar'e abilities. until players other than jeffries and td are committed to playing defense, this team isn't going to achieve what they want to achieve. what that has to do with d'antoni is beyond me. it starts with your CAPTAINS aka melo and amar'e on the floor and doing it themselves - then everyone else will follow.

So the fact that this coach does not preach defense is irrelevant? Did you listen to his postgame last night? This is comical. He has no defensive schemes that make any sense. He could care less. But OUR CAPTAINS, they should take the initiative and do what the coach could care less about?

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:its feels like some that were against the trade are a bit happy that we are losing because they get to say i told you so.

Not me. I actually feel quite deflated. and quite frankly, my interest level is very slowly starting to decrease.

You mean the SSOL-ND doesn't get you allllll fired up?!!!?

incase you didn't notice - this team isn't playing SSOL anymore, d'antoni adjusted his offensive attack to fit melo and amar'e abilities. until players other than jeffries and td are committed to playing defense, this team isn't going to achieve what they want to achieve. what that has to do with d'antoni is beyond me. it starts with your CAPTAINS aka melo and amar'e on the floor and doing it themselves - then everyone else will follow.

So the fact that this coach does not preach defense is irrelevant? Did you listen to his postgame last night? This is comical. He has no defensive schemes that make any sense. He could care less. But OUR CAPTAINS, they should take the initiative and do what the coach could care less about?

he talks about defense all the time. The bench players are playing because they defend. Shawn William's defense got him in the rotation over Bill "I only shoot 3s" Walker. You just making stuff up. MDA talks about their need to better defend all the time. Maybe he should bench Melo and Stat for Corey Brewer and Sheldon Williams? Would that send the message?

Fishmike, enjoy going down with the sinking ship screaming MDA MDA MDA. You are right and every fan (not blind) and reporter are wrong MDA is a good defensive coach. The players just don't get it.

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:its feels like some that were against the trade are a bit happy that we are losing because they get to say i told you so.

Not me. I actually feel quite deflated. and quite frankly, my interest level is very slowly starting to decrease.

You mean the SSOL-ND doesn't get you allllll fired up?!!!?

incase you didn't notice - this team isn't playing SSOL anymore, d'antoni adjusted his offensive attack to fit melo and amar'e abilities. until players other than jeffries and td are committed to playing defense, this team isn't going to achieve what they want to achieve. what that has to do with d'antoni is beyond me. it starts with your CAPTAINS aka melo and amar'e on the floor and doing it themselves - then everyone else will follow.

So the fact that this coach does not preach defense is irrelevant? Did you listen to his postgame last night? This is comical. He has no defensive schemes that make any sense. He could care less. But OUR CAPTAINS, they should take the initiative and do what the coach could care less about?

he talks about defense all the time. The bench players are playing because they defend. Shawn William's defense got him in the rotation over Bill "I only shoot 3s" Walker. You just making stuff up. MDA talks about their need to better defend all the time. Maybe he should bench Melo and Stat for Corey Brewer and Sheldon Williams? Would that send the message?

Fishmike, enjoy going down with the sinking ship screaming MDA MDA MDA. You are right and every fan (not blind) and reporter are wrong MDA is a good defensive coach. The players just don't get it.

Who said MDA is a great defensive coach? There is a difference between being great at something and not caring about it. You would have me and everyone else believe that the guy tells the plays just keep shooting and dont bother contesting shots. Its idiotic.

MDA has always had defensive favorites... Raja Bell all team first NBA defense, Boris Diaw has NEVER defender better than when he played for MDA.

I'm sorry you heros (the players) are not living up to your expectations and your blaming the coach. Thats all your doing. Its a pattern that can will always be repeated in sports.

you made a point about hitting a point when enough is enough and you have to change the coach. When does that hold true for the players? When do you say maybe the problem is the guys on the floor just arent as good as you think they are?

I could give two CRAPS about MDA. I'm not an MDA guy. I'm a Knick guy. I see problems with this TEAM. The problem is we traded half the roster for a scorer who doesnt defend and a 34 year old PG who was great 6 years ago. I understand it will take time to balance this team and fix this roster. It would be nice if the new star player showed a bit more than at his last place that seems quite happy to have him and his distractions gone

I was not for this trade - I am still kinda torn. I woulda loved to have Deron over Melo. However, this move was done if we or MDA like it or not (was he for it? who knows). But players are accountable all the time but not ones with long term contracts. This is it. we can't change it.

At the end of the day, the owner/gm give you a team or teams and if you fail you are gone. Sad but true in all sports. its What have you done for me lately. Even Coughlin who actually won a ring is on the hot seat. Players Shmayers, no one cares. The coach is inevitabely responsible.

If a player sucks and it is not working out AND his contract can be traded or the contract is up. Get rid of him. And let us not forget too. Carmelo Anthony is the one with the ring.

I was not for this trade either, and the KNicks got hosed. This was going to happen. A star player wanting to come to a team should be a positive, but in the end it was Melo's selfishness that phucked us. So since he forced the Knicks to pay him $20mm a year AND trade every good young player they had its on him to be the star, to shut defend (well) guys like Granger and to win us games. Thats what superstars do. I'm waiting

But what's surprising is that I don't really care about this team anymore, like at all. I've stopped watching the games. I didn't watch the Mavs game or either Pacers game. I caught the 2nd half of the Memphis game.

The trade seems like a naked move to fill the Garden and justify a massive ticket price hike.

Yeah, we sold the teams soul.

Reap what you sow. Or, more accurately, we reap what Dolan sows.

crzymdups wrote:I was initially a supporter of this trade on the logic that they could build a championship team more easily. I guess the jury is WAAAY out on that until next season or the season after...

But what's surprising is that I don't really care about this team anymore, like at all. I've stopped watching the games. I didn't watch the Mavs game or either Pacers game. I caught the 2nd half of the Memphis game.

The trade seems like a naked move to fill the Garden and justify a massive ticket price hike.

Yeah, we sold the teams soul.

Reap what you sow. Or, more accurately, we reap what Dolan sows.

Felton 8MM Billups 14.5MM next season - Who do you take? The stats are even the defense Felton plays is better

Gallo 5MM Chandler 9MM or Melo 20MM - From a stat breakdown ability and defensive standpoint you do take our guys

Throw in a cheap center that let's face it could actually dunk a basketball unlike jefferies and rebounded well we got ****ed big time.

We could have cleared space perhaps with Rony and would have traded AR.

So we could actually have made a good offer to someone like Deandre Jordan who isn't commanding big bucks that doesn't need the ball is well liked and rebounds and blocks shots and can hassle Noah and Howard.

Felton - Douglas
Fields - Walker
Gallo - Chandler
Amare - Williams
Jordan - Moz

Again it's not even ****ing close. You have guys that are improving (Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Douglas, Fields, Moz) you have defense you have motion. You have one guy that needs the ball in Amare and guys that are growing as a unit.

Now we have a point guard that is poor defensively, a small forward that can't defend anyone, no bench and limited size.

But, we got better offensively the one area we were already exceptional in. Ask yourself again why this trade was made. And I'm 49% sure you have you're answer.

mreinman wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:its feels like some that were against the trade are a bit happy that we are losing because they get to say i told you so.

Not me. I actually feel quite deflated. and quite frankly, my interest level is very slowly starting to decrease.

You mean the SSOL-ND doesn't get you allllll fired up?!!!?

It would if we had players commited to playing defense.

it would be nice to have a coach who gave a crap about his players playing defense. that would be a pleasant place to start.

You can have a coach who loves defense more than his family and knows more about it than himself and has all the motivation tactics in the world. He still wont get players, who don't play defense, to play defense. That's factual. Melo will never be 100% commited to defense. Ever. Amar'e will never have the mental reflexes nor the capacity to do it all the time, and it starts with your stars. Then, a step or two down, you have Billups, your secondary leader, and he's lost a few steps. If not only your stars aren't playing much defense, but your secondary leader as well (That's 60% of the starting rotation btw) then how is the rest of the team going to be commited to playing defense? Yet this is a coaching thing? I have no disrespect towards you, and I'm sure your basketball wits are just as good as mine (And this goes to everyone else making the anti MDA arguements) but but I think you are severely misinformed if you really think this is a coaching issue.